Fina and BA concentrations

[NorCalBdyBldr]

There are a lot of postings about "fina cough" and accusations made as to whether benzyl alcohol (BA) causes it or benzyl benzoate (BB) causes it. After doing some calculations, it appears that the BA content will be approximately 20% by volume in the finished solution containing oil and trenbolone acetate as my kit contains strictly BA as the solvent.

BA is typically used as a preservative in pharmacological preparations for parentetal administration. From what I have seen, it is usually .95% to 1% by volume for this purpose. Solutions that require some pH buffering, can also include up to approximately 19% BB by weight although I believe it is the BA that is considered the "preservative" portion of the mix.

After carefully reading and reviewing the instructions on using "f-kits" it appears to me that the BA is necessary to dissolve the tren into solution so that it can be "dissolved" into the oil and then filtered and separated from the insoluble inert methyl cellulose binders and "glues" contained in fina or comp T-H.

So my first question is.....is the BA also necessary to keep the trenbolone acetate in solution with the oil in the finished solution or is the only purpose for it at that point to work as a preservative which would have the concentration about 20 times higher than what is typically used for that purpose by industry?

Since it may be possible to remove the BA from the finished solution by processing the BA/oil/tren finished solution with sterile water to draw the BA out (alcohol is totally miscible in water so the water would tend to draw the BA out of the oil), this leads to my second question. Is the BA necessary to be contained within the final solution at such a high concentration of 20% by volume in order to keep the trenbolone acetate in solution in the sesame oil? Conversely, will removing of some portion or all of the BA result in the precipitation or recrystallization of the tren out of the remaining oil solution? If the BA is no longer necessary after filtering, it would seem that it could be removed and then 1% by volume could be added back in as a preservative which would bring it more in line with standard parentetal pharmacological preparations.

So I would like some feedback about the possibility of removing some or all of the BA. Is this possible or will it result in the tren coming back out of solution with the oil? Thanks for any thoughts or input and experiences you can share.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Oooops! I meant "10% BA by volume" so that was an error on my part. I guess that is what happens when you have someone talking at you while you are trying to type and do calculations. According to the label I haven't measured it out yet but it looks approximately correct as per the volumes stated, the 6 g kit that I have contains 8 ml of BA and 60 ml of sesame oil and allowing for the volume increase with the Component T-H dissolved in plus BA plus oil comes up to approximately 80 ml total would leave 10% by volume BA. In any case, 10% is still quite high and about ten times the industry standard for use as a preservative. I suspect a shot containing this amount would still hurt like hell!

 

[Fat Bastard]

I was wondering the same thing. I think what NORCAL is saying is that even though they ma give you 75 ml of oil or whatever, The sterile vial will only hold so much oil after the pellets and solvents are added.


In other words, what is the minimum amount of BA that will do the job and not allow the mixture to crash later, and/or can the amount of BA be significantly reduced and replaced w/ BB( I think it can), and what would be the optimum "brew", i.e. :

grams tren
ml BA
ml BB
ml oil

"Optimum" meaning a bacteria-free, pain-free shot that stays in solution. Anybody have the best recipe?

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

Fat Bastard said "In other words, what is the minimum amount of BA that will do the job and not allow the mixture to crash later, and/or can the amount of BA be significantly reduced and replaced w/ BB( I think it can), and what would be the optimum "brew", i.e. :

grams tren
ml BA
ml BB
ml oil"

This is EXACTLY what I am getting at. If I don't NEED 8 ml to dissolve 6 g of tren that is bound up in pellets as Component T-H or Finaplix-H in order to get the job done, I certainly don't want any more BA (or BB for that matter) in the final solution than what is absolutely necessary to keep everything in solution AND to act as a preservative.

So does anyone know just how much BA it takes to dissolve each gram of tren out of the pellets? Is the solubility of tren in BA the SAME as the solubility of tren in BB? In other words, can you substitute one ml of BA for one ml of BB to dissolve the same amount of tren into solution? If not, then what ratio of BB to BA is necessary if you substitute?

Since BB is normally added for items that require a pH buffering action (if my memory serves me correctly, it is on the alkaline side), it seems to me that it would not be necessary to use the BB at all unless it was used as a solvent IN PLACE of someor most of the BA with the remainder of the BA being used as the preservative (I don't believe the BB acts as a preservative but I could be wrong about this). If it turns out that both BB AND BA are responsible for different side effects, then maybe using a 50-50 solution of both would result in less exposure to EACH per shot and still minimize any side effects due to either. That is if an equal amount of BB can be substituted for an equal amount of BA and work just as well as a solvent.

It is already clear to me, having checked several American made oil based injectibles (HCG-Profasi by Serono, Testosterone Cypionate by Pharmacia and Upjohn, and Nandrolone Decanoate by Schein), that .95% to 1% BA by volume of final product (i.e. total ml's of oil + BA + dissolved Trenbolone Acetate) is the correct amount of BA to use for preservation purposes as per U.S. industry standards. But what amount of BA as a SOLVENT above that is necessary to keep each gram of tren dissolved in the oil without it precipitating back out? Logic would say that the less alcohol used, the less painful the shot and if the side effects like tren cough, kidney toxicity, etc. are, in fact, related to hypersensitivity for some folks to the BA, then lowering the exposure would also lower the side effects.

Ok, so are there any chemists, pharmacologists, or similarly inclined that would know the answer to these questions?

 

[Fat Bastard]

Somebody's gotta have some insight!

 

[OAKBOX]

You don't need all of it. Try crushing the pellets in a pill crusher, then take all but one mL out of the "Maic soulution" vial. Then put your pellet powder in the vial and add the BA one mL at a time, until you have all of the powder saturated. You'll probably find that you need aproxamatly 1 to 1.5mL of BA per 2gms of pellet powder. That's as little as it gets. Your 6gm kit should yeild anywhere from 3 to 5mL of BA. Just add more oil for less pain...

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

good news is that I found a link where it spells it out:

http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/page.php?pageID=79&issueID=7

Someone made 200 mg/ml using 7 ml of BB with 3 ml of BA and 10 ml of oil and claimed it was totally painless (this remains to be seen, however). This means they must have started with 4 g of tren to dissolve in the 10 ml of BB (7 ml)/BA (3 ml) mix and then the 10 ml of oil to make that concentration (the total volume of the finished solution would be at least 20 ml or a bit more because the amount of dissolved tren would likely increase the volume some). Well that certainly gives me enough info to play with. So if 7 ml of BB with 3 ml of BA will dissolve 4 g of tren, then you just need to adjust the amount of oil to work out the concentration which by my calculations should be around 43 ml of oil to make 75 mg/ml-the total volume should be approximately 53 ml. of finished solution.

 

[NorCalBdyBldr]

This will be my first time with fina so I just want to avoid any problems as it seems that there are an awful lot of guys out there complaining of painful shots, cough, etc. The article that I posted made sense as the way to remove alcohol from the mix is draw it out with water and once you inject it, the alcohol will come out (your body contains water) possibly allowing the fina to recrystallize in your favorite injection site before it is all used. The Benzyl Benzoate is oil soluble so this would not be a problem with it. Also by minimizing the amount of alcohol, it seems likely that the shots will be less painful. Just conjecture on my part until I actually do it.

 

[horsePOWER]

i just got enough BA to last me a long time. from now on i plan to just crush any pellets, place into empty vial. then slowly add BA untill all is dissolved. then add oil accordingly.

this seems like the easiest, non-complicated way. i dont know, ill try it this way once and adjust if need be. afterall, this is all in the name of science anyway, right?