Explain "DEPRESSION" to me Please!

[Irie]

I have been posting on Elite for 3.5 years now. This means that I have posted some decent material and some material that could definitely fall under the "pure crap" category. One of my posting regrets is on the topic of "depression". I remember offending many on here with my view of depression, which was "it's all in the mind, all one needs to do is think properly or in a positive fashion, that the mind could solve the depression, without therapy, drugs, or whatever". Truth is that may work for only a few who battle with depression.
There are two people in my life where the grip of depression has them held pretty tight. No matter what, these two ( an ex girlfriend and friend from back in the day) are never happy/satisfied/or see anything positive. They both have tried all the alternatives(drugs, therapy,etc.)
I personally have never been depressed and truly believe I never will because of my relationship with my Faith, sure I have a vice or two but being happy/satisfied/content has never been an issue.
For the last months I have really been giving my all to these two, whether it's my time, advice, money, etc(and I wanted to do these things 100%). They have caused some unneccesary stress but I never let that get to me. I care for both of them a lot and wish I could solve their problems, obviously I can't. I feel defeated and disheartened. Maybe I don't understand depression enough, maybe the only way to fully comprehend it is to go through it or hear from others who have gone through it or been around it.

Anyone, please explain depression, saying that seems kind of generalized, non specific and broad but please attempt, hopefully it will help me understand, thanks!

 

[Silent Method]

Depression IS kind of a generalized term. It's symptoms are psycologically exhibited, but it's or origin can be purely mental, primarily biological, or a combination of both.

If their depression is real clinical depression, you are not going to cure it anymore than you are going to cure the color of their eyes. Stop thinking it will go away. The best that can be done is dealing with it and hopefully reducing it's stranglehold on their lives. Your only role is to support them - not fix them.

There is a ton of info on depression on the net.

 

[Lao Tzu]

its a mindset that comes and goes. WHen it comes, everything seems negative, dark, bad, etc. Then it goes and even though nothing changes in the external environment, your genetics or your life you feel better when its gone. The same stuff that seemed hopeless when you were depressed seems surmountable when you are not. JOkes are funnier when its over, you are more motivated, etc.

It usually has nothing to do with the immediate environment. Meaning its not due to something that happened yesterday or in a month, but it might be tied into deep trauma from a decade ago.

i dont know what you can do for your friends. DO they exercise? regular aerobic exercise helped with my depression.

 

[RottenWillow]

My mother has suffered with recurrent depression for all my life so I spent a lot of time studying it over the last 4-5 years. It disrupted my life and I was always confused and upset as a little girl because I thought my mom's depression was somehow my fault.


Depression is a bunch of symptoms, sadness, irritability, fatique, social withdrawal, loss of interest in pleasureable activities, feelings of worthlessness, loss of apetite, and insomnia or hypersomnia. Its a lot more than just being real sad. Everyone gets sad at times, but clinical depression is a LOT more than just feeling sad.

To describe what depression is biologically I'll use some metaphors that have helped me understand it.

You might develop chronic knee pain from squatting for years so you decide to stop squatting, the pain goes away for a while but you find it continues to reoccur despite having stopped squatting. An injury occured and now the pain is chronic even though the original cause is no longer there. With depression you are exposed to some environmental stressor and you react with sadness. If the stressor is persistent though your sadness is prolonged. If experiences like this happen repititively, especially in childhood, physical changes in the hippocampus lobe of the brain develop. Something very much like a physical injury is done and the sadness becomes chronic and may reoccur without exposure to the original environmental stressors.


In the brain of a depressed person, a process called neurogenesis stops (the brain's creation of new cells). As old cells die and are not replaced there is a build up of serotonin in the synapses. The newest anti-depressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibiters, which block a lot of the excess serotonin in the synapses making it appear to the recepters in the hippocampus as if the amount if normal, thereby alleviating the symptoms of depression.

 

[Y_lifter]

I think Depression is caused by the way you feel about Yourself.
Whether you like yourself or Not.

I usually only get depressed when I don't like "Myself" for what I have done or have not done in life.

Rarely do I get depressed about a circumstance or sutuation unless I have caused it to happen.
This way, I only have to fix "Me", and the Depression lessens for that instance.

This falls right into your mindset H of "It's all in your Mind" , because the only one you can control is yourself.

What you can do as a friend is find some way of making them Love Themselves more and this improves ones outlook on life and
it's ups and downs..

 

[Irie]

Great information everyone, thank you much.

 

[WODIN]

It's like being underwater without any hope of coming up for air.

 

[Y_lifter]

I also analogize(word?) it as being Overwhelmed,
not knowing what to do or where to start so you just give up trying.

 

[curling]

I have gone throught 3 depressions in my life. They were clinical but brought about by extreme stress. The only thing I looked forward to was sleeping(it was an escape from the nightmare) Isn't that weird when you are awake you are in the nightmare instead of vice a versa.

Depression sucks. Being alive totally sucked and I am a pretty happy go lucky guy. But during those times I just thought about killing myself just about everyday. I mean there was no joy in my life at ALL.

I read the Bible alot and that helped some but it was also scary because when reading I realized all the sin I have done in my life so I thought maybe God would have had enough of me. But times when I had the shotgun in my mouth God was always there to intervene (someone would knock on the door or the phone would ring or it was just the fear dying with all that buckshot going in mouth and my family seeing my body like that kept me from pulling the trigger.

Depression is no joke if it clinical you just can pep up and pop out of it. I tell you what helped me though. Shrinks didn't do it. Drugs didn't do it. It was getting away with my family to a pretty place like Colorado in the mountain or carlbad caverns in new mexico. I don't know why but seeing that there was indeed beauty in the world instead of homeless people and poverty(I worked near downtown where they all hung out) helped me pop out of it.

 

[from zero]

The only thing I looked forward to was sleeping.

Hmm. I'm like that ...

 

[primetime21]

Being a red sox fan this morning.

 

[spongebob]

irie,
is either one taking any recreational drugs, anything like alcohol, street drugs or anything else? if so they need to immediately stop and lay off for a long while first thing. i dont know much about it but all my friends that have went thru it is because of that, not all but it definitely contributed. and then tell them to make one positive change in thier life and concentrate on that. like going back to school or change thier social environment, go to church, anything real positive and concentrate on that for awhile.

 

[NoDaddyNo]

There is the drepression where you feel really down and golly gee you are a grumpy gus, but some really tasty pancakes and good sex if the weather is nice could turn that frown upside down!
That is what everyone gets, some people get it worse than others.

Then there is the real depression that has physical origins and the side effects show up physically and are uncontrollable. The kind that comes from serotonin and dopamine levels being out of whack, among other things.

For people to tell the former condition to cheer up, suck it up, look on the bright side, and get out and find themselves a new life - that works. Maybe your dog got thrown in a wood chipper, or your wife was killed in a tragic blimp accident (the worst) - you are WAY down, but in the end, it is still due to causes outside of your brain chemistry and you are reacting to that cause.
It will go away, you just need to pull out of the downward spiral.
It is feasible to turn it into a really bad physical depression by resorting to things that fuck with your brain chemistry during that time - but that is a different matter.

But if someone has a genetic predisposition to be clinically depressed and it comes out of nowhere, isn't triggered by anything in their life and is just a matter of the levels of neurotransmitters in their head - telling them to smile and think sunny thoughts isn't going to cut it. Finding God isn't going to cut it. The only thing that will solve the problem is addressing the issues of the neurotransmitter levels.

When people say "I've been really down before, and I just pictured that Elvis was out there and loved me and it made my life way better - you should try it!" that is as retarded as saying "I've gotten a bruise on my leg before and shucks did that hurt! I just walked it off and I think you should too." - to a person that has a compoudn fracture and bones jutting out of the torn flesh on their leg. Walk it off, Elvis is there for you.


Depression is a weird thing - I have hit the depths of clinical depression twice now in the past 7 years. The doctors say that I will never be cured of it and it will come and go, with no warning - I just need to be aware of that and seek help when I see it coming.
I really wish it would stay away since I hate the drugs - they just make me flat - no ups, no downs, just a flatline of something just below what I would hope is normal.

My dad has it, my mom has it, my dad's mom had it, etc - it is a genetic thing. My fiancee has it and I have it, so I feel bad that I will be giving it to my kids - I hope that by the time that happens, they will know more about ways to fix the problem.

 

[Smurfy]

Depression IS kind of a generalized term. It's symptoms are psycologically exhibited, but it's or origin can be purely mental, primarily biological, or a combination of both.

If their depression is real clinical depression, you are not going to cure it anymore than you are going to cure the color of their eyes. Stop thinking it will go away. The best that can be done is dealing with it and hopefully reducing it's stranglehold on their lives. Your only role is to support them - not fix them.

There is a ton of info on depression on the net.

what he said^

 

[Y_lifter]

Originally posted by NoDaddyNo
My dad has it, my mom has it, my dad's mom had it, etc - it is a genetic thing. My fiancee has it and I have it, so I feel bad that I will be giving it to my kids - I hope that by the time that happens, they will know more about ways to fix the problem.

No worries..
For our generation we have Elvis.

You kids will have Brad Pitt..

 

[Lao Tzu]

For people to tell the former condition to cheer up, suck it up, look on the bright side, and get out and find themselves a new life - that works. Maybe your dog got thrown in a wood chipper, or your wife was killed in a tragic blimp accident (the worst) - you are WAY down, but in the end, it is still due to causes outside of your brain chemistry and you are reacting to that cause.
It will go away, you just need to pull out of the downward spiral.
It is feasible to turn it into a really bad physical depression by resorting to things that fuck with your brain chemistry during that time - but that is a different matter.

But if someone has a genetic predisposition to be clinically depressed and it comes out of nowhere, isn't triggered by anything in their life and is just a matter of the levels of neurotransmitters in their head - telling them to smile and think sunny thoughts isn't going to cut it. Finding God isn't going to cut it. The only thing that will solve the problem is addressing the issues of the neurotransmitter levels.

exactly, this is what people w/o depression don't get. Depression sometimes doesn't happen because of outside events, its due to brain chemistry. Doesn't matter if you're rich, married, well liked, successful, etc. If your brain chemistry starts fucking up none of it matters.

However i think past trauma makes someone more vulnerable to onsets of meaningless clinical depression too.

 

[Gymgurl]

A ton of great advice....I have been a counselor and I couldn't have said more....medication does work wonders in some areas

 

[CollegeKid2]

In the brain of a depressed person, a process called neurogenesis stops (the brain's creation of new cells). As old cells die and are not replaced there is a build up of serotonin in the synapses. The newest anti-depressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibiters, which block a lot of the excess serotonin in the synapses making it appear to the recepters in the hippocampus as if the amount if normal, thereby alleviating the symptoms of depression.

no offense anya, but writing a scientific-sounding post does not mean you know what you are talking about. what you said is complete BS. there is very little amount of neurogenesis going on in the brain in anyone, depressed or not. and neurons don't just spontaneously die, unless you have some disease or physical trauma. also you TOTALLY fucked up on the part about serotonin. depression is mostly an imbalance of neurotransmitters, in some cases this involves a LOWERING of serotonin production. antidepressants like SSRI's block released serotonin from being taken up by the cell again, thus increasing the time it is spent in the synapse activating target neurons, and thus alleviating depression.

please, do not spout off misinformation like you know what you are talking about. people are stupid and might believe your retarded musings. that is all.

 

[NoDaddyNo]

no offense anya, but writing a scientific-sounding post does not mean you know what you are talking about. what you said is complete BS. there is very little amount of neurogenesis going on in the brain in anyone, depressed or not. and neurons don't just spontaneously die, unless you have some disease or physical trauma. also you TOTALLY fucked up on the part about serotonin. depression is mostly an imbalance of neurotransmitters, in some cases this involves a LOWERING of serotonin production. antidepressants like SSRI's block released serotonin from being taken up by the cell again, thus increasing the time it is spent in the synapse activating target neurons, and thus alleviating depression.

please, do not spout off misinformation like you know what you are talking about. people are stupid and might believe your retarded musings. that is all.

Have you followed anything recent in neuroscience?

1) they have shown that the previous ideas on neurogenesis were wrong and that even in adult brains it remains at a high level

2) initially they thought that depression was due to a lack of serotonin since it makes logical sense - it is one of the mood regulating neurotransmitters, so less of it would mean a worse mood - which is essentially right. But too much of it is also bad as well.
When you force it out via drugs like X, then you can get a good feeling with it (especially if you get a dopamine release which is the pleasure neurtransmitter) - but to have generally higher levels have also been shown to be issues in anxiety and depression in the more recent studies.

3) serotonin reuptake blocks it from being taken back up into the neuron and it stays in the synapse (the area that is essentionally at the terminal end of the neuron and where the chemical flow back and forth through the sodium channel takes place).

You are both right in that sense - while it stays there, it keeps activating the receptors that are there, but because it is being prevented from being pulled up into the neuron it is also not triggering the overregulation system up in there either.

I would be interested in seeing if the inactive brain cells that aren't properly cleared out still draw in serotonin or not and also if they have any correlation to later prion formation.

Anyway - you are a bit harsh and quick to jump on someone's post just because you know something from 1998, which is essentially where that little burst you had dates back to.

 

[CollegeKid2]

Have you followed anything recent in neuroscience?

1) they have shown that the previous ideas on neurogenesis were wrong and that even in adult brains it remains at a high level

2) initially they thought that depression was due to a lack of serotonin since it makes logical sense - it is one of the mood regulating neurotransmitters, so less of it would mean a worse mood - which is essentially right. But too much of it is also bad as well.
When you force it out via drugs like X, then you can get a good feeling with it (especially if you get a dopamine release which is the pleasure neurtransmitter) - but to have generally higher levels have also been shown to be issues in anxiety and depression in the more recent studies.

3) serotonin reuptake blocks it from being taken back up into the neuron and it stays in the synapse (the area that is essentionally at the terminal end of the neuron and where the chemical flow back and forth through the sodium channel takes place).

You are both right in that sense - while it stays there, it keeps activating the receptors that are there, but because it is being prevented from being pulled up into the neuron it is also not triggering the overregulation system up in there either.

I would be interested in seeing if the inactive brain cells that aren't properly cleared out still draw in serotonin or not and also if they have any correlation to later prion formation.

Anyway - you are a bit harsh and quick to jump on someone's post just because you know something from 1998, which is essentially where that little burst you had dates back to.

i don't know where you get your "up-to-date" info, perhaps "People" magazine? just for reference i'm a 3rd yr neuroscience major at johns hopkins university. im not in the mood for arguing tho. peace.

 

[Y_lifter]

i don't know where you get your "up-to-date" info, perhaps "People" magazine? just for reference i'm a 3rd yr neuroscience major at johns hopkins university. im not in the mood for arguing tho. peace.

DARKTOOTH ?

 

[NoDaddyNo]

i don't know where you get your "up-to-date" info, perhaps "People" magazine? just for reference i'm a 3rd yr neuroscience major at johns hopkins university. im not in the mood for arguing tho. peace.

You sure sounded like you were in the mood for arguing. Or maybe just abuse.

If you are really in that program and you aren't aware of this stuff, I would give serious consideration to transferring.

In 2001 the neurogenesis stuff came out big to the public - in 2000 Elizabeth Gould won an award for her research on it.

I was involved in neuroscience research in college - wasn't majoring in it though - but was part of a program that was under an NSF grant that did some neat stuff.
At that point, I would have agreed with you.

Now I would just say that you sound like a college student that is overly confident of their knowledge from a dated textbook.

Go ask a prof that you respect how they feel about the stuff.

 

[Heahy Minister]

One of my best friends right now is in a severe bout with depression. His condition has persisted for many years and he is currently on 'short term disability' as a result. He is on all kinds of medication and sometimes he is in an 'up' mood, sometimes he is in a 'down' mood.... and sometimes in a very very down mood. I've walked in on him literally bawling his eyes out and another time when he tried to slice his wrists with a razor ... blood everywhere, but thank God he didn't fully go through with it. I've also gone through a major bout with depression myself.

It's so difficult to explain what "depression" is. Basically the best explanation I can give based on my experience with it and my best friend's is that there is a physical component (chemical imbalance) and also a mental component. The mental aspect is the MAIN factor without a doubt, because the mind controls what the body exhibits. All the medication in the world has helped EASE my friend's condition, but it certainly hasn't "cured" him. The ROOT of depression lies in ones mind and psyche that has taken years to develop. So it is very much more a mental condition than physical.

My best explanation is that depression is a culmination of years of everything negative that has led up to one's life that eventually overcomes one's sense of hope and faith while not having enough positive support and influence to help counteract it.

In layman's terms what I'm trying to say is, depression to ME is basically a culmination of more "negative" in one's life than "positive" in that persons eye's. A lot of people go through negative moments and situations, but if they got a good support base or people to depend on, or a strong sense of faith and spiritual connectivity or whatnot, "depression" will not settle in.

People who get depressed essentially feel like they have NOTHING (or very very little) deep down inside.

It is too selfish to ask one to simply "stop thinking negative and start thinking positive." When your mind has gone through years and years and years of thinking negatively, it is not easy to think otherwise.

 

[RottenWillow]

i don't know where you get your "up-to-date" info, perhaps "People" magazine? just for reference i'm a 3rd yr neuroscience major at johns hopkins university. im not in the mood for arguing tho. peace.

Much of my retarded rambling was taken from Dr. Fred Goodwin, former head of NIMH and a few of his fairly recent guests on his radio show The Infinite Mind who are conducting some of the most recent research in depression.


I did not state that the cessation of neurogenesis was spontaneous. It occurs in reaction to the continued effect on the hippocampus of prolonged environmental stressors which can trigger clinical depression, which is a disease, which you agreed can interfere with neurogenesis.

....but I really dont want to argue tho.