EQ/Tbol...Makaveli/machine/Carth

[DieselGunz]

OK I am planning my first serious cycle starting in a couple weeks. I have chosen EQ and kicking it off with tbol. My plan is this

EQ-1-15 @400/500mgs
tbol-1-4 @ 40mgs
tbol-12-15@ 40mgs

PCT- nolva/clomid/HGC

I have been reading EQ threads for weeks now and the concencus is it hits about week 6-8 my question is if i only run tbol for 4 weeks will that mean I will have a dead time while the EQ geats ready to work?

Is there any advantage to front loading EQ even though I am using a oral?

Any anti-Es?

Any help is appreciated and will be rewarded......

 

[Mr.X]

You've been on the boards long enough bro, where's the Test in that cycle? your first serious cycle is EQ+tbol, not a very good idea. You should run a straight test cycle and nothing more.

 

[DieselGunz]

You've been on the boards long enough bro, where's the Test in that cycle? your first cycle is EQ+tbol, not a very good idea. You should run a straight test cycle and nothing more.

I know, but i am trying to stay away from straight test because of complications that occur. I have been here a bit but i am small timer compared to some.

 

[Mr.X]

I know, but i am trying to stay away from straight test because of complications that occur. I have been here a bit but i am small timer compared to some.

what complications?

 

[DieselGunz]

what complications?

MPB/shut down/prostate/acne/water weight I am open for your opinion I appreciate your help.


I know anti Es will help with some of that

 

[Mr.X]

MPB/shut down/prostate/acne/water weight I am open for your opinion I appreciate your help.


I know anti Es will help with some of that

You'll still have these complication on an EQ/Tbol cycle. I hope you're not thinking eq/tbol is side-free, it's not - not even close.

 

[DieselGunz]

You'll still have these complication on an EQ/Tbol cycle. I hope you're not thinking eq/tbol is side-free, it's not - not even close.

my understanding is that EQ is easier and has less sides, gives you slow keepable gains throughout the cycle. Gaines are leaner and harder than a normal test/deca. I am keeping dosage down to keep down negative sides

tbol from what the board says is easy on the hair and provide a lean gain while imprving pumps. PCT seems to be a breeze


I am not saying this is going to be side free but I am hoping to control them

 

[cyrex]

i've been extremely happy with my test cycle (I'm up over 20lbs so far and i'm barely halfway through)

I have had 0 sides other than bloat that I notice when I missed my daily dose of liquidex this morning, but taking it this afternoon cleared me out of that extra water pretty quick.

I haven't noticed 'acne' per se I have noticed a few extra zits like on my back (2 or 3 in the last 4 weeks) but I think that's more because I've been staying at the gym longer and not getting to the shower as soon as I'd like to afterwards. Nothing on my face really. My nuts are the same size as they normally are and if anything my dick seems bigger cause I get hard-ons more often and half wood is a littler harder than usual. That is definitely not a bad side. . . No probs whatsoever as far as MPB, but that is something that if you are prone to it, it's gonna happy reguardless of using test or not. Test just speeds it up. I don't think i'm prone to it though based on family history and how thick my hair is (which is much like my mother's side and she has no bald brothers and her fauther didn't go bald either)

 

[cyrex]

Make no mistake though. I'm taking .5mg Liquidex daily and I have nolvadex and clomid on hand if needed.

 

[DieselGunz]

Make no mistake though. I'm taking .5mg Liquidex daily and I have nolvadex and clomid on hand if needed.

agreed Ldex seems to do the trick, excellent post.

This your first inject?

 

[cyrex]

This is my first AAS cycle I started 5 weeks ago or so (i forget the exact date but it's in my log). I've used clen and T3 in the past though

 

[DieselGunz]

This is my first AAS cycle I started 5 weeks ago or so (i forget the exact date but it's in my log). I've used clen and T3 in the past though

cool thanx

 

[Mr.X]

my understanding is that EQ is easier and has less sides, gives you slow keepable gains throughout the cycle. Gaines are leaner and harder than a normal test/deca. I am keeping dosage down to keep down negative sides

tbol from what the board says is easy on the hair and provide a lean gain while imprving pumps. PCT seems to be a breeze


I am not saying this is going to be side free but I am hoping to control them

You'll get good gains with test and you'll keep them, I'm not sure where you got your facts on this cycle set-up, but they are off. For your first serious cycle, you should be doing a straight test + arimidex, that's all you need.

Too many newbies are looking for stacks and "exotic" mixes when all they need is test.

 

[mendo]

I have to say I agree with Mr X on this. I love tbol, but I wouldn't run a tbol/EQ stack like that, even if it wasn't a first cycle. The tbol effect will end and you will end up running a EQ-only cycle for most of it. Your gains won't be that great and you could have libido issues etc. Also, test is great because by adding couple of ancillaries its easy to keep the sides under control. I am running tbol/test/eq right now and its a great stack.

For a first I would recommend tbol/test-E. The tbol will stop working right as the test kicks in and you will be able to learn how your body reacts to test...but still see gains in the first few weeks from the tbol. Test+finasteride and adex is as side-free as EQ in my experience, but the results are better and you feel great (unless you're LVTitan). Thats my 2 cents...

 

[DieselGunz]

You'll get good gains with test and you'll keep them, I'm not sure where you got your facts on this cycle set-up, but they are off. For your first serious cycle, you should be doing a straight test + arimidex, that's all you need.

Too many newbies are looking for stacks and "exotic" mixes when all they need is test.

thanx for your advice X, btw your diet articles are INSANE very informative

 

[DieselGunz]

I have to say I agree with Mr X on this. I love tbol, but I wouldn't run a tbol/EQ stack like that, even if it wasn't a first cycle. The tbol effect will end and you will end up running a EQ-only cycle for most of it. Your gains won't be that great and you could have libido issues etc. Also, test is great because by adding couple of ancillaries its easy to keep the sides under control. I am running tbol/test/eq right now and its a great stack.

For a first I would recommend tbol/test-E. The tbol will stop working right as the test kicks in and you will be able to learn how your body reacts to test...but still see gains in the first few weeks from the tbol. Test+finasteride and adex is as side-free as EQ in my experience, but the results are better and you feel great (unless you're LVTitan). Thats my 2 cents...

thanx for the advice bro

So you are saying with the right ancc I can have the lean hard gains from test as I would from EQ?

 

[cyrex]

You'll get good gains with test and you'll keep them, I'm not sure where you got your facts on this cycle set-up, but they are off. For your first serious cycle, you should be doing a straight test + arimidex, that's all you need.

Too many newbies are looking for stacks and "exotic" mixes when all they need is test.

I did add in some dbol once I really noticed the test working and didn't see any sides for a week . . . still no major sides other than the noticeable bloat when i missed my arimidex. I'm only gonna run the dbol for another week and a half though (total of 3 weeks). Mostly cause I want to see how far the test takes me. I added in the dbol to give the cycle an extra kick (especially strength) and I definitely accomplished that.

 

[itlnstln]

I remember back when i started, - my "mentor" in the early days started my off with a test-only 1/2cc/week cycle - and I didn't question him. See , back then, you would listen to the guys who "looked" and "lived" the part. He gave me my first inject, and after my first 10 week (weak) cycle - I gained 8lbs of solid muscle.

When I was just starting out, "everything" revolved around TEST........some guys added a little of this or a little of that, but everyone KNEW a Cycle without test is just not a cycle..........

 

[DieselGunz]

I remember back when i started, - my "mentor" in the early days started my off with a test-only 1/2cc/week cycle - and I didn't question him. See , back then, you would listen to the guys who "looked" and "lived" the part. He gave me my first inject, and after my first 10 week (weak) cycle - I gained 8lbs of solid muscle.

When I was just starting out, "everything" revolved around TEST........some guys added a little of this or a little of that, but everyone KNEW a Cycle without test is just not a cycle..........

good point, I know about the test thing but then again everyeon is diffrent some people say they can run deca alone and have no problems

people told me to run var with a small dose of test just to keep the boys going, I didnt and had no problem with libido or PCT but other people do.

It will never end back to searching older threads

 

[mendo]

thanx for the advice bro

So you are saying with the right ancc I can have the lean hard gains from test as I would from EQ?

Yeah pretty close. Plenty of guys have test in their cutters. Your gains will be better on the test and just as lean if you run adex. AG finasteride stops acne and hairloss for me.
EQ-only (after the tbol wears off) would maybe make you slightly harder...but not much, and it wouldn't be worth it IMO. EQ with no test KILLS my libido and its not even much of a mass builder. For me there is no point in running shit that kills your lidido...except maybe if you were competing.

 

[DieselGunz]

Yeah pretty close. Plenty of guys have test in their cutters. Your gains will be better on the test and just as lean if you run adex. AG finasteride stops acne and hairloss for me.
EQ-only (after the tbol wears off) would maybe make you slightly harder...but not much, and it wouldn't be worth it IMO. EQ with no test KILLS my libido and its not even much of a mass builder. For me there is no point in running shit that kills your lidido...except maybe if you were competing.

yeah that is what I DONT want to happen

 

[cyrex]

yeah that is what I DONT want to happen

if anything, my libido is up. Oddly my wife who has some issues with sex (a whole other story) has been taking care of me pretty well while I've been on. I'd say I've gotten more pootang in the last 5 weeks than I did all last year . . .

 

[DieselGunz]

if anything, my libido is up. Oddly my wife who has some issues with sex (a whole other story) has been taking care of me pretty well while I've been on. I'd say I've gotten more pootang in the last 5 weeks than I did all last year . . .

fuckin A dude gotta be the test!

 

[big49ersfan]

if your worried about sides from test use prop his is becasue if you get any then you can drop it and it will be out your system ina couple of days. rather than with any long acting gear will be out in weeks so you have 2-3 weeks of dealing witht he sides.

- gyno- use nolva (60mg when it appears, then 40mg tillt he symtoms reside then 20mg until the end of the cycle i.e. buy an extra box fo the stuff whn you put your order in)

- bloat use a'dex, i wouldnt use prov was on i on my current cycle but still gained some water weight so use adex instead

- get a good skin care regime goign before you start your cycle go to acne.org and follow the bacne and face acne articles i have had no acne on my current cycle and i am pretty prone to it (i.e. on a test/dbol/ deca cycle i was covered on my back this cycle on var and prop nothing cos i started the skin care 2 weeks proeior to start and my skin is better now that it was before the cycle tbh.

- mpb if your predisposed you will go bald if not your lucky

- dude you will shut down on any cycle using eq will not may reovery easier than test (from what i ahev read never used eq but tbh i reovered well lost little lbm after the deca/test cycle so with hcg therapy prior to pct and then clomid/ nolva/ trib and creo which was what i used pct wasnt to hard), but if your concerned with reocery stay away from deca and tren

-prostate im not too concerned about ti im 22 but supposdly saw palmentto helps but not looked int o this in the slightest

basically as said above use test i would presonly advice goign for prop over enantahte for a first cycle for the reasoon mentionned above but you will be doing eod injects which ome people dont like tbh i like injecting prop doesnt hurt me and would happily inject ed makes me very motivated in weird way.

then add an oral for 6 weeks i have used dbol, var and winny. dbols great for strength but you will bloat like a bitch, var is very good but it didnt kick in for a week or so and it has suppressed my appetite so if you on a bulk not the best idea on a cut it is bloody great, winny ok- use on a cut for added hardness never hurt my joints as it was to finifh a deca/test cycle so i was ladden with water which meant that the winny didnt really dry me out. never used tbol but i know a ocupel fo peopel who ahev used a prop and tbol cycle for 6-8weeks and gainned very well off of it.

id say

weeks 1-8 prop @ 100mg eod
weeks 1-6 tbol @ 60-80mg ed
weeks 1-8 adex 0.5mg ed (up to 1mg if you need to/ wan to stay really dry)

or
weeks 1-8 prop @ 100mg eod
weeks 1-8 npp @ 100mg eod
weeks 1-8 adex @ 0.5mg eod

have nolv aon hand, start skin care regime early,

 

[axe3]

thanx for the advice bro

So you are saying with the right ancc I can have the lean hard gains from test as I would from EQ?

Deisel...I have run eq only - And I actually had some very undesirable sides. I lost my sex drive completely, and it took a long time to recover from. I now always use test in my cycles. I have not been over 9% bf in a long time - currently 197 @ 6'0. With a good diet along w/ l-dex or aifm a test based cycle will give you the results that you want. I know every one is different but I honestly think you will be best served running test for your first real run.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

OK I am planning my first serious cycle starting in a couple weeks. I have chosen EQ and kicking it off with tbol. My plan is this

EQ-1-15 @400/500mgs
tbol-1-4 @ 40mgs
tbol-12-15@ 40mgs

PCT- nolva/clomid/HGC

I have been reading EQ threads for weeks now and the concencus is it hits about week 6-8 my question is if i only run tbol for 4 weeks will that mean I will have a dead time while the EQ geats ready to work?

Is there any advantage to front loading EQ even though I am using a oral?

Any anti-Es?

Any help is appreciated and will be rewarded......

My first cycle was 200mg Test Cyp and I had great gains and kept them. I understand your reason for wanting to take EQ and T-bol..you've taken the tbol before i think and EQ is labeled a cutter. Well, as many have said, I think that if you're going to do EQ you need some Test as well. Stack them. Take the 4-500mg EQ and add in 2-3-400mg Test. Right now I'm stacking EQ Test and Deca and I must say it's euphoric

 

[sparetire]

I have actually ran a eq/tbol cycle:

1-12 EQ 500mg
1-3 Tbol 40mgs
4-10 masteron 100

---

Awesome cycle! I gained about 10 pounds and kept it. I also, didn't get much water bloat or sides, acne was minimal. PCT was a breeze

I know where you are coming from dieselgunz, i'm like you.. Like to look lean and hard with little bloat. If were to do the cycle again, I would run the first 4 weeks instead of 3 - and the last 6 with winny instead of masteron (winny/eq is an awesome hard cycle).

 

[Tweakle]

a few months of 500mg of test won't give you any sides at all unless you're one in a million - maybe a couple zits but absolutely nothing more.

the people pushing the overpriced yuppie juice (tbol, primo) might have you think test is bad and their stuff is side free but like mr X said, not even close...

 

[DieselGunz]

Thanx for all your help guys really appreciate it

 

[boyer]

Bro I have done two cycles. First one was npp/prop eod 100mgs 8 weeks. Pretty much wondered if that shit was fake until I got off cycle and had an embarrasing case of bacne. Sucked big time because I was on spring break at the time. Second cycle was test prop 150 eod 8 weeks Farmak prop, .5 armidex eod and Finasteride. That shit rocked. No sides except for alot of puntang. If you don't like shots, I would go with 500 mgs a week sust, .5 ed armidex and finasteride. I think that the finasteride might have been the reason that I didn't get any acne.

 

[habitual]

My first cycle was Sust cycle. I didn't know much about shit back then. I didnt know about PCT either. I gained 10lbs and was lean as shit. I ate everything and everything clean and trained hard. I was hooked after that.
Sex drive was out the roof. I will never cycle without Test. Take in everything everyone says here, we can learn from everyones sucesses and failures. You will learn what works for you over time. Good luck to you bro.

Semper Fi,
Habitual

 

[DieselGunz]

This is what makes this board great for all your help peeps

 

[Dial_tone]

The side effects from test are well documented and largely preventable.

 

[habitual]

Agreed

 

[Roc86]

MPB/shut down/prostate/acne/water weight I am open for your opinion I appreciate your help.


I know anti Es will help with some of that

if you take test....
MPB/ Prostate enlargement ... run proscar or advodart while on
Take your clomid, novla, and some trib, and the only thing your left with is a bit of acne which will probably bother you with alot of aas.

ps, im thinking of the same stack except with 4 weeks of var at the end, pm me as to how this turns out when you run this.

 

[iHulk]

My first cycle was Sust cycle. I didn't know much about shit back then. I didnt know about PCT either. I gained 10lbs and was lean as shit. I ate everything and everything clean and trained hard. I was hooked after that.
Sex drive was out the roof. I will never cycle without Test. Take in everything everyone says here, we can learn from everyones sucesses and failures. You will learn what works for you over time. Good luck to you bro.

Semper Fi,
Habitual

Good point here. Look Diesel for one I think you are more ready than anyone was ever for their first.... you've been around, you've researched and you know the deal. Your patience is immpecable for even holding out this long. Bro you are gonna be one confident strong and ripped mofo once you get that first blast of the super pump... and for your first bro I would highly highly highly reccommend just a Test cycle and nothing else. Go with 500 mg/wk for 10 weeks and watch what happens. Take the dex with it and run a Nolv/HCG PCT and done.

My first was exactly what I just mentioned and I was lean and strong at about 175 and I gained 20 lbs of rock solid lean mass. As long as your diet is strict and you run the PCT.. you'll keep 80% of that gain.

 

[Themachine01]

Diesel, I really didnt take the time to read through all the advice that everyone else has given you but the ones I did read I have to agree with. First off, let me begin by telling you that I do not agree with anyone running EQ as the base for any cycle, whether it be for cutting or not. I cant give you any advice on the t-bol because I have never personally used it, nor do I plan to. You have probably read some of the advice Ive given lately on the Eq dosages, but I must tell you that I am not a huge fan of EQ mainly because you really dont get that much out of it. It does make you a little leaner and vascular, but only to a degree, and for the length of time you have to run it to notice the gains, it really isnt that great of an AS. I actually tested the difference by running a test/EQ/winny cutting cycle and then a year later ran a test/winny cycle, same diet, training, and cardio routine, and to be completely honest with you on this, I have pics that you can look at from the results of both cycles and you cant tell a difference, neither did i feel that much of a difference. Test with arimidex is probably the best base you can go with for a cycle, and then add in somethine on top of it such as winny or if i guess tbol if you like, but I wouldnt put to much emphasis on the Eq bro.

 

[DieselGunz]

Wow I really thought the Eq would be a better fit for my goals but now i am having second thoughts. I agree with you machine and hulk the time I was going to run it was along time and to only have it active for say half of it was bothering me a bit. I am just sitting here thinking DAMN 20 pounds or so on mt frame would be sick in THEORY I would be sitting at almost 240 or so that is alot of weight.

I know there are your hardcore people no here who are discusted about us guys trying to look pretty as they say. But to be honest I think a guy like machine/Mak and others have the best of both worlds. Even clean I bench in the 300s and dead in the high 400s I am not a monster but I am happy with were I am so a little more mass while staying tight is alright with me. I am not bragging at all but I know what my goals are and this cycle will help me get there. I am going to rethink this again and go from there thanx for all your help. The bottom line is I have to go what works for me and keep it simple, which would be test

 

[iHulk]

right on bro.... you'll be disappointed if you base your cyc off EQ. Its' too mild. I think you've got the advice you need. If you want to add some winny towards the end of the Test cycle that will definitely give all gains and hardness you're looking for. Keep it basic.

 

[krishna]

Hey bro, I don't like test much either. I will never do test above 125mg/wk for as long as I'm alive. Test isn't for everybody, so if you want to avoid it, don't let people tell you you're making a mistake. LVtitan and I have had some experience with non-test cycles. I'll tell you right now that you won't get much as far as gains off of eq alone. I know you're stacking it with tbol, but I would throw some deca or tren in there at a low dose as well. EQ alone is good for keeping you hard and lean, but you probably won't make any real gains off of it; it's mainly a maintenance stack. For some reason, if you stack it with other gear, it amplifies the effects of that gear, as well as bringing out vascularity and hardness. I love eq bro, but I recommend stacking it with deca or tren if you want to avoid test. That's also because I'm not a big fan of orals either.

 

[sparetire]

Well, I disagree with all of you. There are plenty of bro's on here who love EQ as a base because their body responds well to it. I can show you a picture of my back pose with a Winny/EQ cycle VS Sustanon 350 / EQ 500 cycle.. You tell me bro, which is better: Lean, hard, thin skin, vascular, keepable gains, or bloated, larger muscles - bulki, thick skin, fat gains due to excessive carbs/cals?

basically this is your body and no one knows it better than you. There's a EQ Fan base here and then there's the TEST base group. Usually the guys who love test are those who have been doing it for a very long time and have gained a quite a bit of mass. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but from what I have observed and seen pictures of, it seems true to me.

If you look like you do in your pictures, run test, and then kiss your ab definition good by. It'll still be there, but puffy looking with cuts. I can run 1mg a-dex every day that i'm on test, and I see bloat. A month after your last shot, you'll drop water weight like crazy doing cardio. If you are prone to MPB, don't run test. If you are prone to adult acne (have it normally) or had it bad as a teen, it will come back on you 7 fold bro. The only way to truly minimize the acne is running low doses of accutane during cycle. Oh, I almost forgot, your blood pressure will rise also.

Eq/tbol/winny/primo/masteron/ etc..

If you are a cardio type, someone who is looking for the 'cut' gq look, then this angle is for you. You want to run the light to moderate steroids due to the lesser side effects. Don't get me wrong, you'll get sides on everything. And I had a tad bit of water bloat while I was on tbol, but it shed itself off within a week. Winny, you have to watch out for the drying in the joints, primo is a decent mild steroid, but most can't afford running it at high dosages. Nothing more than having chicks hot on your ass cuz you got that gq look going.. Face it, chicks like guys who look mean and ripped vs. ronnie coleman types..

And by the way, I have seen a fair amount of guys who ran the famous 'Test ONLY' cycle, not too impressive. Sure, their bench went up, strength went up, but in the end, after gaining all that weight and eating like a pig, lost half or more of it. Plus, when you run test, your muscles can't retain that hardness appeal - they're soft and mushy..

Eq/tbol - raise your protein up and watch it work. Sure it takes a while, but the wait is worth it

Just my opinion from my experiences and from what I have read and seen in forum posts..

And remember, your abs are the showcase for your body.. Guys on here who run cutters..u see their abs..vs..that test base i was writing about earlier...LOL..just joking guys..chill out..don't be roid raging all up on me now! lol..

 

[DieselGunz]

Well, I disagree with all of you. There are plenty of bro's on here who love EQ as a base because their body responds well to it. I can show you a picture of my back pose with a Winny/EQ cycle VS Sustanon 350 / EQ 500 cycle.. You tell me bro, which is better: Lean, hard, thin skin, vascular, keepable gains, or bloated, larger muscles - bulki, thick skin, fat gains due to excessive carbs/cals?

basically this is your body and no one knows it better than you. There's a EQ Fan base here and then there's the TEST base group. Usually the guys who love test are those who have been doing it for a very long time and have gained a quite a bit of mass. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but from what I have observed and seen pictures of, it seems true to me.

If you look like you do in your pictures, run test, and then kiss your ab definition good by. It'll still be there, but puffy looking with cuts. I can run 1mg a-dex every day that i'm on test, and I see bloat. A month after your last shot, you'll drop water weight like crazy doing cardio. If you are prone to MPB, don't run test. If you are prone to adult acne (have it normally) or had it bad as a teen, it will come back on you 7 fold bro. The only way to truly minimize the acne is running low doses of accutane during cycle. Oh, I almost forgot, your blood pressure will rise also.

Eq/tbol/winny/primo/masteron/ etc..

If you are a cardio type, someone who is looking for the 'cut' gq look, then this angle is for you. You want to run the light to moderate steroids due to the lesser side effects. Don't get me wrong, you'll get sides on everything. And I had a tad bit of water bloat while I was on tbol, but it shed itself off within a week. Winny, you have to watch out for the drying in the joints, primo is a decent mild steroid, but most can't afford running it at high dosages. Nothing more than having chicks hot on your ass cuz you got that gq look going.. Face it, chicks like guys who look mean and ripped vs. ronnie coleman types..

And by the way, I have seen a fair amount of guys who ran the famous 'Test ONLY' cycle, not too impressive. Sure, their bench went up, strength went up, but in the end, after gaining all that weight and eating like a pig, lost half or more of it. Plus, when you run test, your muscles can't retain that hardness appeal - they're soft and mushy..

Eq/tbol - raise your protein up and watch it work. Sure it takes a while, but the wait is worth it

Just my opinion from my experiences and from what I have read and seen in forum posts..

And remember, your abs are the showcase for your body.. Guys on here who run cutters..u see their abs..vs..that test base i was writing about earlier...LOL..just joking guys..chill out..don't be roid raging all up on me now! lol..

thanx, I am on the fence right now but I have always had abs but now i want dense thick muscle while still keeping my small waist. I want to bring up my chest and back and increase the Vtaper

 

[sparetire]

thanx, I am on the fence right now but I have always had abs but now i want dense thick muscle while still keeping my small waist. I want to bring up my chest and back and increase the Vtaper

it will come on this cycle, but don't be fooled, 1 cycle, you won't be where u want to be.. it takes several or many.. Deca would work nicely also.. I see lots of guys on deca and they're ripped as hell..

good luck!

ps. do research asking other guys on other forums to get a wide variety of opinions..no reason to keep it just at ef. ask around.. I can run 100 mgs of prop per week, and i'll still gain about 5-8 pounds and be bloated as hell..

 

[tupac]

i just want to say this is one of the more intelligent threads i have read... I really hope you decide to go with test only cycle.. keep the doeses low and you shouldn;t encounter to many problems.. keep some nolva on hand and few other anc.. and you should be just fine.. for acne try taking some vit b5 it worked wonders for me.. You will gain some good quality mass.. Start out with a single ester like test Enthanate and run it for about 10 weeks.. Start your pct about 10 days after your last inj..


goodluck

 

[DieselGunz]

i just want to say this is one of the more intelligent threads i have read... I really hope you decide to go with test only cycle.. keep the doeses low and you shouldn;t encounter to many problems.. keep some nolva on hand and few other anc.. and you should be just fine.. for acne try taking some vit b5 it worked wonders for me.. You will gain some good quality mass.. Start out with a single ester like test Enthanate and run it for about 10 weeks.. Start your pct about 10 days after your last inj..


goodluck

thanx bro k to you

 

[Themachine01]

Well, I disagree with all of you. There are plenty of bro's on here who love EQ as a base because their body responds well to it. I can show you a picture of my back pose with a Winny/EQ cycle VS Sustanon 350 / EQ 500 cycle.. You tell me bro, which is better: Lean, hard, thin skin, vascular, keepable gains, or bloated, larger muscles - bulki, thick skin, fat gains due to excessive carbs/cals?

basically this is your body and no one knows it better than you. There's a EQ Fan base here and then there's the TEST base group. Usually the guys who love test are those who have been doing it for a very long time and have gained a quite a bit of mass. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but from what I have observed and seen pictures of, it seems true to me.

If you look like you do in your pictures, run test, and then kiss your ab definition good by. It'll still be there, but puffy looking with cuts. I can run 1mg a-dex every day that i'm on test, and I see bloat. A month after your last shot, you'll drop water weight like crazy doing cardio. If you are prone to MPB, don't run test. If you are prone to adult acne (have it normally) or had it bad as a teen, it will come back on you 7 fold bro. The only way to truly minimize the acne is running low doses of accutane during cycle. Oh, I almost forgot, your blood pressure will rise also.

Eq/tbol/winny/primo/masteron/ etc..

If you are a cardio type, someone who is looking for the 'cut' gq look, then this angle is for you. You want to run the light to moderate steroids due to the lesser side effects. Don't get me wrong, you'll get sides on everything. And I had a tad bit of water bloat while I was on tbol, but it shed itself off within a week. Winny, you have to watch out for the drying in the joints, primo is a decent mild steroid, but most can't afford running it at high dosages. Nothing more than having chicks hot on your ass cuz you got that gq look going.. Face it, chicks like guys who look mean and ripped vs. ronnie coleman types..

And by the way, I have seen a fair amount of guys who ran the famous 'Test ONLY' cycle, not too impressive. Sure, their bench went up, strength went up, but in the end, after gaining all that weight and eating like a pig, lost half or more of it. Plus, when you run test, your muscles can't retain that hardness appeal - they're soft and mushy..

Eq/tbol - raise your protein up and watch it work. Sure it takes a while, but the wait is worth it

Just my opinion from my experiences and from what I have read and seen in forum posts..

And remember, your abs are the showcase for your body.. Guys on here who run cutters..u see their abs..vs..that test base i was writing about earlier...LOL..just joking guys..chill out..don't be roid raging all up on me now! lol..

You can disagree with me all you want, but you are completely wrong in telling someone that they will lose their ab definition if they run test. I have ran test only cycles and went from 13%BF down to about 6-7% BF with no problems with water. Like you stated, people respond differently, but you are in the minority if you lose your abs while running test and an ai such as arimidex. If your diet is on point than there should be no reason to hold water while running test and arimidex. I have done photoshoots in the past while running a good amount of test with no problems having veins on my abs. If competing, then yes, I believe that you there will be a little water retention from test and you will need to cut it out a few weeks before the show, but otherwise it is not a big deal.

 

[krishna]

Test fills me up like a water baloon, even while taking an AI. For what you're looking for Diesel, I strongly recommend tren/eq.

 

[sparetire]

Test fills me up like a water baloon, even while taking an AI. For what you're looking for Diesel, I strongly recommend tren/eq.

fills me up also like a balloon and my diet is in check when I am on. Maybe my AI isn't as good as AGs - maybe it's not as strong, but taking 1mg (adex) ed throughout the cycle - i hold water like no tomorrow. Although, I have been using so much AIFM/Nolva/A-dex as of late trying to combat this gyno I got from test/tren, i have shed a lot of water.. but, i think what it all comes down to is how you can make each steroid work for yourself. I have heard of bros using test to cut, it's difficult, but it definitely can happen..It's harder work due to the bloat from test..

 

[informed09]

Cutting on test can surely be done. Look at the damn pics of Makavelli. I know he was taking alot of other compounds to be remember he was also on 750mg/wk of test. As long as diet is on point you should be fine. From your pics you look like a pretty lean guy to start with.

 

[little chris]

MPB/shut down/prostate/acne/water weight I am open for your opinion I appreciate your help.


I know anti Es will help with some of that

Eq shut me down alittle. Add some proviron with that cycle. Arginine helps too.

 

[DieselGunz]

I have read you can cut with test and have no problems. To be honest I am cutting now natty I gain BF in the winter just because it is the winter. I am going to get to my normal 10% or so and when I do go on I am going to be on surplus calories to grow. I will adjust calories based on growth and physical apperance. My number 1 goal is to grow I know I will not loose my abs unless I dont take the right precautions which I will

I am leaning towards this
test E-250mg 1-15
EQ 400mgs 1-15
tbol 1-4 40mgs

 

[njmuscleguy]

I have read you can cut with test and have no problems. To be honest I am cutting now natty I gain BF in the winter just because it is the winter. I am going to get to my normal 10% or so and when I do go on I am going to be on surplus calories to grow. I will adjust calories based on growth and physical apperance. My number 1 goal is to grow I know I will not loose my abs unless I dont take the right precautions which I will

I am leaning towards this
test E-250mg 1-15
EQ 400mgs 1-15
tbol 1-4 40mgs

Diesel, you should consider running the test for 2 weeks longer than the EQ (so 12-14 weeks with EQ and 14-16 weeks test)... you'll have less of a crash when coming down....that seems to be the general consensus

 

[Makavelli]

Sorry for the late response Diesel. I just saw this thread. I agree with many of the above. However I love EQ. It works great for me. I always frontload and feel it quickly. Within a week on it I'm more vascular and stronger. I use Test in every cycle I do and recommend you do the same. Just use arimidex with it and you'll stay lean. If you front load the EQ and run the T-Bol as you planned, along with test, I think you will be happy with the results.

 

[k6jatu37]

hoe to frontload eq ?

 

[black sheep]

Last cycle was Test/EQ/T-Bol. I hated it - Worst cycle ever. Dick was in the dirt worst than any deca or tren cycle. T-Bol made me VERY tired. 6 weeks out my red blood cell counts were out of wack. They did come back inline after 9 weeks tho. I will not use EQ or T-Bol again. D-Bol and T-Bol both make me VERY tired - All day!

 

[Makavelli]

hoe to frontload eq ?

If I want to use 600 mgs/wk I'll frontload 1200 mgs the first week, then 900 mgs the second week, and down to 600 for the remainder of the cycle.

 

[njmuscleguy]

Last cycle was Test/EQ/T-Bol. I hated it - Worst cycle ever. Dick was in the dirt worst than any deca or tren cycle. T-Bol made me VERY tired. 6 weeks out my red blood cell counts were out of wack. They did come back inline after 9 weeks tho. I will not use EQ or T-Bol again. D-Bol and T-Bol both make me VERY tired - All day!

how much of each did you do man? and how long? T-bol is supposed to increase your sex drive, not decrease it... I don't have actual experience (yet)

 

[black sheep]

how much of each did you do man? and how long? T-bol is supposed to increase your sex drive, not decrease it... I don't have actual experience (yet)

Week 1-12 Test 750mg/week (Enath)
Week 1-12 EQ 600mg/week
Week 1-4 T-Bol 80mg ED

Don't know what caused it, but it sucked. I started taking Proviron in week 6 and sex drive came back to normal.

 

[mendo]

Yeah I'm curious how much EQ he ran. Those sound more like high-dose EQ sides than Tbol sides to me. Gear does effect everyone differently though.

 

[mendo]

Week 1-12 Test 750mg/week (Enath)
Week 1-12 EQ 600mg/week
Week 1-4 T-Bol 80mg ED

Don't know what caused it, but it sucked. I started taking Proviron in week 6 and sex drive came back to normal.

Hmm... That sucks bro. Bad luck I guess.

 

[Makavelli]

I've ran up to a gram of EQ a week and didn't have any libido problems.

 

[DieselGunz]

Thanx Mak and others on this thread I think I am going to try and front load and see how that goes keep the test low and still use Adex. I am probably going to cut EQ short just to make sure

 

[Themachine01]

Thanx Mak and others on this thread I think I am going to try and front load and see how that goes keep the test low and still use Adex. I am probably going to cut EQ short just to make sure

Now that you have put some more thought into this and gotten a lot of advice, how is it going to look now? I wouldnt run the test too low, I especially wouldnt go below 250mg/wk, I would recommend 250-500, 500mg/wk still isnt that much, and with arimidex or l-dex you would have no problems with bloat what so ever.

 

[DieselGunz]

Now that you have put some more thought into this and gotten a lot of advice, how is it going to look now? I wouldnt run the test too low, I especially wouldnt go below 250mg/wk, I would recommend 250-500, 500mg/wk still isnt that much, and with arimidex or l-dex you would have no problems with bloat what so ever.

Machine thanx for your help......

1-13 400mgs couture lab EQ
1-15 250mgs couture lab test E
1-5 40mgs BD tbol

Thinking of frontloading EQ 1mg of adex ED nolva on hand for gyno

pct nolva/clomid/HGC

Might bunp up test depending on how I feel, I have enuff

 

[Themachine01]

Machine thanx for your help......

1-13 400mgs couture lab EQ
1-15 250mgs couture lab test E
1-5 40mgs BD tbol

Thinking of frontloading EQ 1mg of adex ED nolva on hand for gyno

pct nolva/clomid/HGC

Might bunp up test depending on how I feel, I have enuff

Looks real good bro, I think you will really like the results. I personally would front load the test also if you go that route with the EQ. I would front load with maybe 750mg the first week, 500mg the second week, and then down to 250mg. If you are going to front load the one then there is absolutely no reason not to load the other. Like I stated in my previous post, I wouldnt hesitate to run the test at 500mg/wk, I truly believe that if you have enough, than you would really like the results alot better. There really isnt that much of a difference between 250 and 500, but I have seen people get great results off of 500/wk. Im glad to see that you put the time in and got a lot of good advice, hopefully all the advice will make this cycle work out alot better for you now that youve made some changes. Good luck with it bro and keep me updated on how everything is going. Train hard brotha.

 

[DieselGunz]

Looks real good bro, I think you will really like the results. I personally would front load the test also if you go that route with the EQ. I would front load with maybe 750mg the first week, 500mg the second week, and then down to 250mg. If you are going to front load the one then there is absolutely no reason not to load the other. Like I stated in my previous post, I wouldnt hesitate to run the test at 500mg/wk, I truly believe that if you have enough, than you would really like the results alot better. There really isnt that much of a difference between 250 and 500, but I have seen people get great results off of 500/wk. Im glad to see that you put the time in and got a lot of good advice, hopefully all the advice will make this cycle work out alot better for you now that youve made some changes. Good luck with it bro and keep me updated on how everything is going. Train hard brotha.

thanx bro, really appreciate your help, you and Mak are how I have always wanted to look like so for both of you guys helping out means alot.

 

[Themachine01]

thanx bro, really appreciate your help, you and Mak are how I have always wanted to look like so for both of you guys helping out means alot.

I extremely appreciate the compliment bro, only if I was what I wanted to look like, got a lot of work to do to get where I want to be. Im glad I could help you out bro, so make sure you keep me updated on how everything is going, even you just shoot me a PM.

Mak is in the same boat as you bro, he is trying his best to look like me Just kiddin with you guys, Mak has been a lot of help with me also, he is very knowledgeable with things that I havent spent much time with and have a limited understanding, hes a great bro.

 

[DieselGunz]

I extremely appreciate the compliment bro, only if I was what I wanted to look like, got a lot of work to do to get where I want to be. Im glad I could help you out bro, so make sure you keep me updated on how everything is going, even you just shoot me a PM.

Mak is in the same boat as you bro, he is trying his best to look like me Just kiddin with you guys, Mak has been a lot of help with me also, he is very knowledgeable with things that I havent spent much time with and have a limited understanding, hes a great bro.

agreed and I will deff keep in touch, but i am going to be starting this in May so I have plenty of time to prepare

 

[abomb]

I am on an extended cycle that started 18 weeks ago. I am going 14 more weeks without test, looks like this:


Week 1-33 Eq front loaded then kept at 800 mg/ 1 mg A-dex per day
Week 1-6 Dbol 40 mg
Week 1-10 - Sust 750 mg
Week 10-14 - Enanthate 750 mg
Stopped test and PCT with clomid nolva *
Week 12-16 - IGF 100 mcg
Week 16-23 - Winny 50 mg
Week 23-27 - IGF 100 mcg
Week 20-33 - Primo 600 mg

*The test had my libido out of control high. Not a bad thing you might say, but it made me sex addict. I am a family man with values and walking around wanting to fuck every woman I saw just got old.

I'm not against test and never will be. I just will have to run it at low to moderate doses from now on. It amazes me how some bros can handle 1,200 grams of test.

I have been taking Tribulus + Clomid since I stopped the test to help get my natty levels up. It has been a month...so far so good, my libido is about a 7 on a scale of 10. My balls are normal size. I took some letro for a week and it killed my libido - dropped it. Keep in mind that I was still running Eq/IGF/Winny. I am up 18 pounds of lean body mass and am as hard, lean,strong, and vascular as I have ever been. I have not lost a thing since dropping the test. I hope when I add primo that I can get another 2-4 pounds of lbm. I am still out of range on my bf, but I am not bloated and moonfaced or broke out.

If I can make and keep 20 pounds of quality mass using fairly safe substances (not counting dbol and winny) I will be a happy camper.I had my blood tested and everything is fine up to this point. I plan on taking the rest of the year off after this cycle to recover. And will run the exact same cycle again next year just with lower doses of test, maybe 250 a week of sust for the full 30 weeks.

Sorry for the long post Diesel, just wanted to let you know how I was doing without test. This is my 3rd cycle btw.

 

[dr_skier]

Hey bro your comments were kinda spot on. OUT of CONTROL libido is great if you're a good looking single guy, but I'm in a solid relationship now and I really dont want my girlfriend to think all she is to me is some blowup doll with a pulse. There are few girls out there who wanna be railed 3x/day, those aren't the kind one generally settles down with.

 

[Makavelli]

I extremely appreciate the compliment bro, only if I was what I wanted to look like, got a lot of work to do to get where I want to be. Im glad I could help you out bro, so make sure you keep me updated on how everything is going, even you just shoot me a PM.

Mak is in the same boat as you bro, he is trying his best to look like me Just kiddin with you guys, Mak has been a lot of help with me also, he is very knowledgeable with things that I havent spent much time with and have a limited understanding, hes a great bro.

I'm doing my best to keep up with ya bro...

Diesel I would go with what Machine said about the test. Front load and go with 500 mgs/wk. With arimidex you won't have any bloat.

 

[k6jatu37]

what about
eq 500 mg/week 1-15 (frontload 1000/750 first 2 weeks) can be run alongside test if using suspension?
test 500mg week 1-16
finish with Var 50mg/day weeks 11-16

good with var?

 

[Makavelli]

what about
eq 500 mg/week 1-15 (frontload 1000/750 first 2 weeks) can be run alongside test if using suspension?
test 500mg week 1-16
finish with Var 50mg/day weeks 11-16

good with var?

Yeah that will work. I like Winstrol better than var, but it will work.

 

[k6jatu37]

what about using it in the beginning?
is adex enough to prvent gyno/bloat but keep libido strong?
this is a lean gainer (bulker) but i want to lose fat, i know diet but what about clen... try it at the end?

 

[Makavelli]

what about using it in the beginning?
is adex enough to prvent gyno/bloat but keep libido strong?
this is a lean gainer (bulker) but i want to lose fat, i know diet but what about clen... try it at the end?

What about using what at the beginning? The var? That would work, but I would add it in the end. Clen is great. Arimidex is enough to prevent bloat and keep libido strong. I use 2 mgs/day of arimidex and I don't have any bloat and my libido is kickin'...

 

[k6jatu37]

2mg adex on my cycle im suggestion= too much?
why var only at the end?

 

[k6jatu37]

2mg adex on my cycle im suggestion= too much?
why var only at the end?
how to do the clen?

 

[Ozz2001]

I am on an extended cycle that started 18 weeks ago. I am going 14 more weeks without test, looks like this:


Week 1-33 Eq front loaded then kept at 800 mg/ 1 mg A-dex per day
Week 1-6 Dbol 40 mg
Week 1-10 - Sust 750 mg
Week 10-14 - Enanthate 750 mg
Stopped test and PCT with clomid nolva *
Week 12-16 - IGF 100 mcg
Week 16-23 - Winny 50 mg
Week 23-27 - IGF 100 mcg
Week 20-33 - Primo 600 mg

*The test had my libido out of control high. Not a bad thing you might say, but it made me sex addict. I am a family man with values and walking around wanting to fuck every woman I saw just got old.

I'm not against test and never will be. I just will have to run it at low to moderate doses from now on. It amazes me how some bros can handle 1,200 grams of test.

I have been taking Tribulus + Clomid since I stopped the test to help get my natty levels up. It has been a month...so far so good, my libido is about a 7 on a scale of 10. My balls are normal size. I took some letro for a week and it killed my libido - dropped it. Keep in mind that I was still running Eq/IGF/Winny. I am up 18 pounds of lean body mass and am as hard, lean,strong, and vascular as I have ever been. I have not lost a thing since dropping the test. I hope when I add primo that I can get another 2-4 pounds of lbm. I am still out of range on my bf, but I am not bloated and moonfaced or broke out.

If I can make and keep 20 pounds of quality mass using fairly safe substances (not counting dbol and winny) I will be a happy camper.I had my blood tested and everything is fine up to this point. I plan on taking the rest of the year off after this cycle to recover. And will run the exact same cycle again next year just with lower doses of test, maybe 250 a week of sust for the full 30 weeks.

Sorry for the long post Diesel, just wanted to let you know how I was doing without test. This is my 3rd cycle btw.

All that shit for 20lbs thats funny i gained that much on a simple test cycle..
Waste of money and gear to me...Test good diet intense workouts you will gain just as much as running all that in only 12 weeks....Bet your gains stop completely after 10 weeks.... oh T-bol purely over rated!

 

[Makavelli]

2mg adex on my cycle im suggestion= too much?
why var only at the end?
how to do the clen?

You may not need that much Arimidex. I'm telling what I take to completely eliminate water retention. It's best to use var at then end because that's when you'll be the leanest and you'll need the extra AAS. You'll notice the effects better. For clen I would start at 40 mcgs/day and increase by 20 mcgs/day until you reach a max of 140-160 mcgs/day. You might be able to go over that, but everyone's tolerance is different.

 

[k6jatu37]

You may not need that much Arimidex. I'm telling what I take to completely eliminate water retention. It's best to use var at then end because that's when you'll be the leanest and you'll need the extra AAS. You'll notice the effects better. For clen I would start at 40 mcgs/day and increase by 20 mcgs/day until you reach a max of 140-160 mcgs/day. You might be able to go over that, but everyone's tolerance is different.

thanks. when do i do the clen (beg or end?) and the anavar from week 11-16 good at 50mg/day?

 

[DieselGunz]

I am on an extended cycle that started 18 weeks ago. I am going 14 more weeks without test, looks like this:


Week 1-33 Eq front loaded then kept at 800 mg/ 1 mg A-dex per day
Week 1-6 Dbol 40 mg
Week 1-10 - Sust 750 mg
Week 10-14 - Enanthate 750 mg
Stopped test and PCT with clomid nolva *
Week 12-16 - IGF 100 mcg
Week 16-23 - Winny 50 mg
Week 23-27 - IGF 100 mcg
Week 20-33 - Primo 600 mg

*The test had my libido out of control high. Not a bad thing you might say, but it made me sex addict. I am a family man with values and walking around wanting to fuck every woman I saw just got old.

I'm not against test and never will be. I just will have to run it at low to moderate doses from now on. It amazes me how some bros can handle 1,200 grams of test.

I have been taking Tribulus + Clomid since I stopped the test to help get my natty levels up. It has been a month...so far so good, my libido is about a 7 on a scale of 10. My balls are normal size. I took some letro for a week and it killed my libido - dropped it. Keep in mind that I was still running Eq/IGF/Winny. I am up 18 pounds of lean body mass and am as hard, lean,strong, and vascular as I have ever been. I have not lost a thing since dropping the test. I hope when I add primo that I can get another 2-4 pounds of lbm. I am still out of range on my bf, but I am not bloated and moonfaced or broke out.

If I can make and keep 20 pounds of quality mass using fairly safe substances (not counting dbol and winny) I will be a happy camper.I had my blood tested and everything is fine up to this point. I plan on taking the rest of the year off after this cycle to recover. And will run the exact same cycle again next year just with lower doses of test, maybe 250 a week of sust for the full 30 weeks.

Sorry for the long post Diesel, just wanted to let you know how I was doing without test. This is my 3rd cycle btw.

thank you very much excellent post, sounds pretty solid and great gains to say the least. 33 weeks is a bit long but aslong as blood work is fine you are good to go IMO. I am going to try test and see how I feel, my sex drive is high now so if it increases my girl is going to be in trouble

 

[Makavelli]

thanks. when do i do the clen (beg or end?) and the anavar from week 11-16 good at 50mg/day?

When you run clen depends on how lean you are to start with and if you are going to run T3 with it also.

 

[abomb]

All that shit for 20lbs thats funny i gained that much on a simple test cycle..

And 8 pounds of it was water.

You must have not understood my post bro, I am big advocate of test. I will use it in almost every cycle. I was just letting Diesel know how my cycle was going after I decided to drop test. I actually just ordered some prop and plan on adding it in if my gains start to plateau.

Bet your gains stop completely after 10 weeks

Why? Because I dropped test out of the cycle? I'll take that bet.
I'm a hard gainer ecto. My gains have been on the rise all 18 weeks, slow but steady. Thats what I love about EQ.

 

[k6jatu37]

thanks. when do i do the clen (beg or end?) and the anavar from week 11-16 good at 50mg/day?

Originally Posted by Makavelli
When you run clen depends on how lean you are to start with and if you are going to run T3 with it also.

Right now my stats are:
23yrs
6'1"
170lbs
15%bf

Cycle is most likley:
test enth 500/week 1-16
eq 600/week 1-15 (frontload 1200/800)
var 50mg/day weeks 10-16

 

[Makavelli]

Right now my stats are:
23yrs
6'1"
170lbs
15%bf

Cycle is most likley:
test enth 500/week 1-16
eq 600/week 1-15 (frontload 1200/800)
var 50mg/day weeks 10-16

Add in clen when your fat loss slows down. I run clen my whole cycle, but I stay pretty lean.

 

[k6jatu37]

makiavelli- check your email pls