EQ or primo

[fcfmuaythai]

which is better for nice, quality, lean gains? It would be for my third cycle. i'm 5'9", 180lbs, 10% bf, currently in second cycle, which is a bulker, consisting of 500mg sust weeks 1-10, 50mg var ED weeks 7-12, HCG and nolva pct. next cycle looking for more lean quality gains. thinking of either:

weeks 1-4 50mg t-bol
weeks 1-10 ?mg test e
weeks 1-10 ?mg EQ

or

weeks 1-4 50mg t-bol ED
weeks 1-10 500mg primo
weeks 8-12 50mg var ED

HCG, nolva pct for either cycle

please comment and advise for help for a good cycle with more lean gains than bulk. thanks!

 

[zach01]

I great lean gainer for me was 14 weeks of eq 600mg a week and prop 300mg every third day ( half live 4.5 days) l-dex .5mgs/ED no water weight and good lean gains. I guess you can add var or t-bol I never tried them. But I did go to eq every second week after the first month but you dont want to hear that.

which is better for nice, quality, lean gains? It would be for my third cycle. i'm 5'9", 180lbs, 10% bf, currently in second cycle, which is a bulker, consisting of 500mg sust weeks 1-10, 50mg var ED weeks 7-12, HCG and nolva pct. next cycle looking for more lean quality gains. thinking of either:

weeks 1-4 50mg t-bol
weeks 1-10 ?mg test e
weeks 1-10 ?mg EQ

or

weeks 1-4 50mg t-bol ED
weeks 1-10 500mg primo
weeks 8-12 50mg var ED

HCG, nolva pct for either cycle

please comment and advise for help for a good cycle with more lean gains than bulk. thanks!

 

[Ross]

which is better for nice, quality, lean gains? It would be for my third cycle. i'm 5'9", 180lbs, 10% bf, currently in second cycle, which is a bulker, consisting of 500mg sust weeks 1-10, 50mg var ED weeks 7-12, HCG and nolva pct. next cycle looking for more lean quality gains. thinking of either:

weeks 1-4 50mg t-bol
weeks 1-10 ?mg test e
weeks 1-10 ?mg EQ

or

weeks 1-4 50mg t-bol ED
weeks 1-10 500mg primo
weeks 8-12 50mg var ED

HCG, nolva pct for either cycle

please comment and advise for help for a good cycle with more lean gains than bulk. thanks!

DROP the test.

weeks 1-6 50mg t-bol
weeks 1-14 500mg EQ
weeks 6-14 40mg VAR

You will be a new man!

 

[TheRide]

Personally, I wouldn't want to pay for that much Primo, and unless you know you source, it's risky...

In terms of EQ 400-500 for 12 weeks is what I usually run. Keep a clean diet, train hard and you shouldn't be let down.

 

[fcfmuaythai]

won't that long on orals bother my liver? if not, i'm all about doing it...

 

[LVTitan]

DROP the test.

weeks 1-6 50mg t-bol
weeks 1-14 500mg EQ
weeks 6-14 40mg VAR

You will be a new man!

you cant really go wrong with either one bro, i love eq and primo, but i think i prefer the eq cause the primo is hard on my skin. Primo is an amazing compound and i dont regret using it at all. i just dont like the acne i get from DHT based gear.
and i also do all my cycles now WITHOUT test ..

 

[fcfmuaythai]

if i run EQ with var, will i encounter any problems with my libido?

 

[tzan]

please comment and advise for help for a good cycle with more lean gains than bulk. thanks!

DIET, DIET, and DIET.....that will be the key in turning your cycle into more of a lean mass gainer than a straight up bulker. I would personally save the money you would have to spend on the primo and go with eq. Something like this:

250mg test every 5 days(350mg a week) wks 1-10
600mg eq wks 1-10
50mg var wks 5-12
0.5mg armidex ed
PCT

 

[Ross]

if i run EQ with var, will i encounter any problems with my libido?

YES--var will reduce your libido moreso than the EQ. However, for the first 6 weeks you have tbol, then the EQ takes over, then you polish off with the VAR. PERMANENT lean mass...gotta love it

 

[LVTitan]

i never experienced any libido loss while on eq, but then i dont get affected by deca in that way either and most do.

 

[fcfmuaythai]

what can I use to counteract the loss in libido? a small dose of test i.e. 250mg/week? proviron? more t-bol??

 

[nipples]

a small dose of test would be ideal.

 

[LVTitan]

proviron will help too..

 

[Ross]

NONONO!

DO NOT USE THE TEST.

This would contradict the entire purpose for this cycle--we are trying to avoid pituitary/testicular inhibition.

Use proviron at the risk of some hairloss.

Or just wing-it!

 

[bigrand]

Bro, you are going to be inhibited no matter what you use. Use test.
they all will shut you down.

 

[Ross]

Bro, you are going to be inhibited no matter what you use. Use test.
they all will shut you down.

This is dangerous advice.

As I stated in previous threads, there is a huge difference between complete Pituitary/testicular inhibition(shutdown) and having reduced testosterone production(supressed). Recovery is FAR swifter and greater gains are maintained POST cycle.Furthermore, no major ancilaries are required. (Nolva, Trib, clomid if you choose)

 

[bigrand]

I read the other thread.......where do you get this varying level of supressionVSshutdown?
The body recognises ANY excess androgens (all above drugs are androgenic allthough they vary in strength). And turns off the HPTA. The study you cited was a bad example, VERY VERY low dose of var in teenagers is far from what we use and they were still supressed. Any of his cycles will have a shutdown. Not like say an estered drug (test or nandrolone), but HPTA inhibition nevertheless.


AAS shut you down, he wants to cycle to put on good lean mass, so i say use test.......your case is different.....you dont want the risk of aromatizing to estro and the sides you get.

My advice is not dangerous at all......if you want to juice, prepare to be shut down.
Im premed/nurse practitioner student, so i look at the science behind it.....there is no way around HPTA supression if you are using juice.

 

[sparetire]

actually, if you ran tbol - split it up - it will give you an increase in your libido. I ran for 3 weeks on, and will run 3 weeks later in my cycle after the eq kicks in. tbol is food from the gods

 

[bigrand]

BTW, i use shutdown and supressed interchangebly. There is no SHUTDOWN....just supression that reverses once exogenus androgens are ceased...but i mean the same thing....

 

[Ross]

BTW, i use shutdown and supressed interchangebly. There is no SHUTDOWN....just supression that reverses once exogenus androgens are ceased...but i mean the same thing....

NO MY MAN....

SUPRESSION is not the same as SHUTDOWN(Defined as COMPLETE PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibtion) I don't mean to be rude, but do more research. Saying this is misleading and incorrect. This ditinction is a FACT.

The HPTA recognizes synthetic androgens and triggers a negative feedback loop. HOWEVER, the extent to which a compound INFLUENCES the HPTA is dependent on several variables, one of which is how WELL IT BINDS TO THE A_R.(Androgen Receptor) This determines how ANDROGENIC a compound is. Estrogen also effects the HPTA. ESTROGEN IS THE WORST. Estrogen causes almost immediate PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibition. SO--there are two things that determine degree of SUPRESSION--Androgenicity and Estrogenicity.

Ergo, a COMPOUND that is is not ESTROGENIC and has LITTLE androgenic activity, will subsequently have LESS of an impact on HPTA function. This is a FACT. I have expereinced this.

TESTOSTERONE is ESTROGENIC and ANDROGENIC--do the math.

 

[TraxZBT]

NO MY MAN....

SUPRESSION is not the same as SHUTDOWN(Defined as COMPLETE PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibtion) I don't mean to be rude, but do more research. Saying this is misleading and incorrect. This ditinction is a FACT.

The HPTA recognizes synthetic androgens and triggers a negative feedback loop. HOWEVER, the extent to which a compound INFLUENCES the HPTA is dependent on several variables, one of which is how WELL IT BINDS TO THE A_R.(Androgen Receptor) This determines how ANDROGENIC a compound is. Estrogen also effects the HPTA. ESTROGEN IS THE WORST. Estrogen causes almost immediate PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibition. SO--there are two things that determine degree of SUPRESSION--Androgenicity and Estrogenicity.

Ergo, a COMPOUND that is is not ESTROGENIC and has LITTLE androgenic activity, will subsequently have LESS of an impact on HPTA function. This is a FACT. I have expereinced this.

TESTOSTERONE is ESTROGENIC and ANDROGENIC--do the math.

you make it sound worse than it really is... a test/eq cycle is very easy to recover from... its not like recovery from fina or deca.

 

[timtim]

you make it sound worse than it really is... a test/eq cycle is very easy to recover from... its not like recovery from fina or deca.

i was thinking the same thing. i only do test e/eq now because of the ease in recovery.

 

[bigrand]

NO MY MAN....

SUPRESSION is not the same as SHUTDOWN(Defined as COMPLETE PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibtion) I don't mean to be rude, but do more research. Saying this is misleading and incorrect. This ditinction is a FACT.

The HPTA recognizes synthetic androgens and triggers a negative feedback loop. HOWEVER, the extent to which a compound INFLUENCES the HPTA is dependent on several variables, one of which is how WELL IT BINDS TO THE A_R.(Androgen Receptor) This determines how ANDROGENIC a compound is. Estrogen also effects the HPTA. ESTROGEN IS THE WORST. Estrogen causes almost immediate PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibition. SO--there are two things that determine degree of SUPRESSION--Androgenicity and Estrogenicity.

Ergo, a COMPOUND that is is not ESTROGENIC and has LITTLE androgenic activity, will subsequently have LESS of an impact on HPTA function. This is a FACT. I have expereinced this.

TESTOSTERONE is ESTROGENIC and ANDROGENIC--do the math.

Ive done plenty of research, and will continue to do so.......My entire point in this thread is that all AAS are supressive to HPTA. I am completly aware that estrogens and androgens supress HPTA....i already said that (minus the estro part).....all AAS have either and androgenic or estrogenic property so all are supressive. Turinabol supresses, oxandrolone supresses, so 8 week cycles like yours will supress. The thread starter needs to be aware of that. If he wants to juice, he will be supressed...thats it! So if hes going to be supressed regardless, why shy away from estro/andro compounds (test) or prog. compounds (nandrolone)? Hes looking for lean muscle. He can get that with damn near anything....he never said he wanted to keep supression at next to nothing. Do pro bodybuilders use only tbol and var? No fuckin way! It doesnt matter what he uses, he will recover eventually and be happy with results....it doesnt have to be your cycle only...thats what im saying.

I dont want to do anymore math, calc 2 is all i need for medschool, so thats where im stopping.

 

[Ross]

Ive done plenty of research, and will continue to do so.......My entire point in this thread is that all AAS are supressive to HPTA. I am completly aware that estrogens and androgens supress HPTA....i already said that (minus the estro part).....all AAS have either and androgenic or estrogenic property so all are supressive. Turinabol supresses, oxandrolone supresses, so 8 week cycles like yours will supress. The thread starter needs to be aware of that. If he wants to juice, he will be supressed...thats it! So if hes going to be supressed regardless, why shy away from estro/andro compounds (test) or prog. compounds (nandrolone)? Hes looking for lean muscle. He can get that with damn near anything....he never said he wanted to keep supression at next to nothing. Do pro bodybuilders use only tbol and var? No fuckin way! It doesnt matter what he uses, he will recover eventually and be happy with results....it doesnt have to be your cycle only...thats what im saying.

I dont want to do anymore math, calc 2 is all i need for medschool, so thats where im stopping.

lol..na I hear ya man...

Its not "My way or the highway"...as you all know, I can NOT use estrogenic compounds because I am a fitness model, and GYNO, acne, or hairloss would all end my career. Therefore, I ONLY use non-aromatizing, AND LOW androgenic steroids like Tbol, Var, Primo, EQ. I am 5''10, 205lbs, 7%BF as of this morning. I have not ONE indication that I have ever used steroids. CLEAR skin, no gyno, full head of hair--I feel GREAT. I can not justify the use of testosterone in ANY case, unless you are a PROFESSIONAL bodybuilder, and don't plan on having kids.

JUST BE OPEN-MINDED... THIS game is always changing..I have been around a bit--just trying to share...

 

[bigrand]

I feel ya too bro. For me, i dont loose hair or get gyno or bad skin from test, i do get more razor burn from progestins (deca and drol, i think mostly drol though). So for me test is ok, and i recover from i rather quickly. And as far as nandrolone, its probly the BEST anabolic out there, even though its quite supressive.....the gains put on while on are fuckin spectacular and i tend to keep them if i PCT well.

My next cycle will be test/eq at 400/600 a week 10 weeks with orals to be determined later, but you got me wanting to run tbol weeks 10-14 becasue of the SHBG aspect (i admit i didnt know that one, im pissed). Maybe var the first 8 weeks or dbol just cuz i LOVE how it makes me feel and how strong i get.

I might try your double oral cycle next year, i have a hard time loosing fat and when im done loosing what i have, ill want to run a cycle that puts on none and keeps me hard as fuck.

Good conversation bro!

 

[lilleole]

I'm more or less trying to do the same thing..

well, switching over to less androgenic and non-aromatizing compounds instead of going with drol/dbol and high dose of test.

hopefully this eventually will give me a cleaner skin

 

[Ross]

I feel ya too bro. For me, i dont loose hair or get gyno or bad skin from test, i do get more razor burn from progestins (deca and drol, i think mostly drol though). So for me test is ok, and i recover from i rather quickly. And as far as nandrolone, its probly the BEST anabolic out there, even though its quite supressive.....the gains put on while on are fuckin spectacular and i tend to keep them if i PCT well.

My next cycle will be test/eq at 400/600 a week 10 weeks with orals to be determined later, but you got me wanting to run tbol weeks 10-14 becasue of the SHBG aspect (i admit i didnt know that one, im pissed). Maybe var the first 8 weeks or dbol just cuz i LOVE how it makes me feel and how strong i get.

I might try your double oral cycle next year, i have a hard time loosing fat and when im done loosing what i have, ill want to run a cycle that puts on none and keeps me hard as fuck.

Good conversation bro!

Test/EQ is a great cycle for mass.

YES, by adding TBOL to your stack, you will increase the efficiency of other steroids being used. COOL!

When it IS time for you to cut, your gonna love the Var/TBOL dynamic duo......

I agree--good conversation my man

 

[Indy]

NO MY MAN....

SUPRESSION is not the same as SHUTDOWN(Defined as COMPLETE PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibtion) I don't mean to be rude, but do more research. Saying this is misleading and incorrect. This ditinction is a FACT.

The HPTA recognizes synthetic androgens and triggers a negative feedback loop. HOWEVER, the extent to which a compound INFLUENCES the HPTA is dependent on several variables, one of which is how WELL IT BINDS TO THE A_R.(Androgen Receptor) This determines how ANDROGENIC a compound is. Estrogen also effects the HPTA. ESTROGEN IS THE WORST. Estrogen causes almost immediate PITUITARY/TESTICULAR inhibition. SO--there are two things that determine degree of SUPRESSION--Androgenicity and Estrogenicity.

Ergo, a COMPOUND that is is not ESTROGENIC and has LITTLE androgenic activity, will subsequently have LESS of an impact on HPTA function. This is a FACT. I have expereinced this.

TESTOSTERONE is ESTROGENIC and ANDROGENIC--do the math.

I hate to be the one to say this, but frankly you are rude. I have spoke with MANY bro's last couple of days that feel the same, I am sure not speaking for everyone, dont get me wrong, but it really is your way or the highway in your posts, whether it's your thread or not. You're the new guy here, and jump in telling everyone to they are wrong REGARDLESS of their input and then try to sell more TBOL !!!

I think you should give insight and recommendations based on personal experiance like everyone else and not tell everyone else they are wrong and need to do more research. I myself have been doing this for almost 22 years now, you're probably not even that old, and I have seen so much bad advice that you truely believe is correct. That's fine, you'll learn someday I sure as hell had to learn alot of things that way.

But just for a laugh before I posted this my buddy sitting here on his wireless laptop, who once won the Arnold Classic, and by the way is a doctor was worried when he read your view on your posts, he exclaimed "I hope all these guys not follow this bad advice, people will really fuck themselves up" No shutdown, dont do pct, dude chill out... I am sure I'll take hell for this, but I dont care, speaking my mind and when a doctor with bodybuilding background laughs, it's time to set the record strait... You're doing your home work, you're learning well, but you have a ways to go and you shouldn't PUSH things on people, remember right or wrong, (wrong in my book) alot of people here (kids) follow this advice like we are doctors...I dont want someone getting hurt from bad advice, and when you are SO SURE you are correct, it cements it into their heads that you must be.

Dont expect me to get into a huge rampage of an argument with you, and dont expect me to go back and forth with you like many others that disagree with you have been, I have better things to do. I just think we could all get along abit better if we didn't push advice on people, let them make their own decisions. I simply posted about years of experience with a particular substance earlier, monitored blood level, before during and after cycle, my doc worked with me all the way, and read many studies that concurred with my own findings, you just flat out told me I was wrong and closeminded......that's why I took 5 minutes of my life to write this......I wont waste another 5 on it.

Peace
Indy

 

[Indy]

DROP the test.

weeks 1-6 50mg t-bol
weeks 1-14 500mg EQ
weeks 6-14 40mg VAR

You will be a new man!

that's 14 weeks of orals, I would not do that to my liver and I hope you dont either bro, just cause var is mild doesn't mean it's not going to hurt you. Var is my favorite oral, I'm not against it, but I am against 14 weeks of orals, not a good idea in my book. Do your research before you do it, dont do it cause one person told you it was ok, unless that person is your doctor and he's monitoring your blood.

 

[Ross]

that's 14 weeks of orals, I would not do that to my liver and I hope you dont either bro, just cause var is mild doesn't mean it's not going to hurt you. Var is my favorite oral, I'm not against it, but I am against 14 weeks of orals, not a good idea in my book. Do your research before you do it, dont do it cause one person told you it was ok, unless that person is your doctor and he's monitoring your blood.

You can run the Tbol for weeks 1-5, and the var from 10-14, so you have a 5 week BREAK between orals...Although...

It is not 14 weeks of normal 17AA orals. It is 6 weeks of tbol(normal 17AA) and then 7 weeks of Anavar(Processed dualy by the lver and kidneys). Liver protectants of course, this cycle should pose no liver risk. EVERYONE is different so have your values monitored.

 

[boskers22]

I hate to be the one to say this, but frankly you are rude. I have spoke with MANY bro's last couple of days that feel the same, I am sure not speaking for everyone, dont get me wrong, but it really is your way or the highway in your posts, whether it's your thread or not. You're the new guy here, and jump in telling everyone to they are wrong REGARDLESS of their input and then try to sell more TBOL !!!

I think you should give insight and recommendations based on personal experiance like everyone else and not tell everyone else they are wrong and need to do more research. I myself have been doing this for almost 22 years now, you're probably not even that old, and I have seen so much bad advice that you truely believe is correct. That's fine, you'll learn someday I sure as hell had to learn alot of things that way.

But just for a laugh before I posted this my buddy sitting here on his wireless laptop, who once won the Arnold Classic, and by the way is a doctor was worried when he read your view on your posts, he exclaimed "I hope all these guys not follow this bad advice, people will really fuck themselves up" No shutdown, dont do pct, dude chill out... I am sure I'll take hell for this, but I dont care, speaking my mind and when a doctor with bodybuilding background laughs, it's time to set the record strait... You're doing your home work, you're learning well, but you have a ways to go and you shouldn't PUSH things on people, remember right or wrong, (wrong in my book) alot of people here (kids) follow this advice like we are doctors...I dont want someone getting hurt from bad advice, and when you are SO SURE you are correct, it cements it into their heads that you must be.

Dont expect me to get into a huge rampage of an argument with you, and dont expect me to go back and forth with you like many others that disagree with you have been, I have better things to do. I just think we could all get along abit better if we didn't push advice on people, let them make their own decisions. I simply posted about years of experience with a particular substance earlier, monitored blood level, before during and after cycle, my doc worked with me all the way, and read many studies that concurred with my own findings, you just flat out told me I was wrong and closeminded......that's why I took 5 minutes of my life to write this......I wont waste another 5 on it.

Peace
Indy

best post ive read all day

 

[Ross]

I hate to be the one to say this, but frankly you are rude. I have spoke with MANY bro's last couple of days that feel the same, I am sure not speaking for everyone, dont get me wrong, but it really is your way or the highway in your posts, whether it's your thread or not. You're the new guy here, and jump in telling everyone to they are wrong REGARDLESS of their input and then try to sell more TBOL !!!

I think you should give insight and recommendations based on personal experiance like everyone else and not tell everyone else they are wrong and need to do more research. I myself have been doing this for almost 22 years now, you're probably not even that old, and I have seen so much bad advice that you truely believe is correct. That's fine, you'll learn someday I sure as hell had to learn alot of things that way.

But just for a laugh before I posted this my buddy sitting here on his wireless laptop, who once won the Arnold Classic, and by the way is a doctor was worried when he read your view on your posts, he exclaimed "I hope all these guys not follow this bad advice, people will really fuck themselves up" No shutdown, dont do pct, dude chill out... I am sure I'll take hell for this, but I dont care, speaking my mind and when a doctor with bodybuilding background laughs, it's time to set the record strait... You're doing your home work, you're learning well, but you have a ways to go and you shouldn't PUSH things on people, remember right or wrong, (wrong in my book) alot of people here (kids) follow this advice like we are doctors...I dont want someone getting hurt from bad advice, and when you are SO SURE you are correct, it cements it into their heads that you must be.

Dont expect me to get into a huge rampage of an argument with you, and dont expect me to go back and forth with you like many others that disagree with you have been, I have better things to do. I just think we could all get along abit better if we didn't push advice on people, let them make their own decisions. I simply posted about years of experience with a particular substance earlier, monitored blood level, before during and after cycle, my doc worked with me all the way, and read many studies that concurred with my own findings, you just flat out told me I was wrong and closeminded......that's why I took 5 minutes of my life to write this......I wont waste another 5 on it.

Peace
Indy

I have never advocated ANYTHING contrary to popular opinion. (We all KNOW that TEST has sides.)

I have never advocated anything DANGEROUS. Oral/injectable steroids need to be taken with precaution.

I speak from EXPERIENCE--I have had great results and have great health.

I am sorry you think I am rude. I am only here to share my experiences.