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Enlarged Left Ventricle......Any Docs here?

The_Chemist

New member
Hey Bros. I just got back from the doctor. She said my chronic high blood pressure has slightly enlarged my left ventricle in my heart. This is crushing news to say the least.

In short.....i guess im done with steroids for awhile. However, she said that if I keep my blood pressure under control, the ventricle will shrink back down to normal size. BTW, my bp has been 140/80 for about 2 months. The last cycle i took was 40mg/day of dbol and 600mg/week of Equipoise. That was the cycle that brought my blood pressure up..........and it just never came down. Its been about two months since the cycle ended.

Does this mean Im done with the juice forever? I hope not. What about sticking to steroids such as low dose test and anavar?

Any thought wouls be much appreciated!
 
i will bump this for you i have heard that heavy traing alone could enlarge the heart some not sure if this is the samk thing as an enlarged left ventricle hope ypu find the answers you are looking for
 
Never had problems with BP before thsi cycle. And it was my 8th cycle or so.
Probably a combination of dbol and job related stress.
 
Good point! I also have trained in the 4-8 rep range for the past two years. I have heard that this is why the Mentzer brothers had heart problems. Heavy weights in the low rep range.
 
Wellbilt...it's true, training can lead to heart emlargement, which is ok. But the doc said it was because of the high BP...which is a different pathological condition.

Guru, don't be concerned with whether or not you can juice again...be concerned with your health. I don't see how juice can even be on your mind at a time like this. Just do what it takes to get that BP down and I'm sure you'll be fine. 140/80 isn't too bad at all...I have a feeling that your doc might have seen the high BP, and just blamed the enlarged heart on that...without asking about your training.

Do you do cardio often? How much, how long?
 
Enlargement can mean a couple of things. Hyperplasia/hypertrophy, which causes the ventricular wall to thicken or cardiomyopathy, stretching, which is what it sounds like she is saying, but it is not clear. BBers can experience wall thickening which is not life threatening and is reversible. Long term high blood pressure can lead to the stretching of the muscle fibers or enlargement. The problem with the stretching is that the heart looses elasticity and thus pumping capacity. 140/80 is not much higher than what is considered normal B/P of 120/80. It does not seem like your bloodpressure over several months would cause this. So, the question is, wall thickening or fibers stretching?
 
What treatment are you on? Are you taking any meds?
Your BP is at the low range of what is considered high BP, and 2 months is not a long time...so I would hesitate to blame your ventricle enlargement on the BP, although it certainly doesn't help. Your juice use is something you definitely must lay off of.
Your priorities must be looked at too. Either by thickening of the ventricle wall, or stretching of the ventricle wall, this isn't good for you. Think of your health, not how much juice you can still be on. If you persist in this, your condition may go into the realm of irreversible.
You may wish to have an image study done, but still, you need to make some choices here.

My 2 cents
 
I more item regarding your BP. I am assuming that this was taken in your doctor's office. You may have " white coat hypertension". This is when your BP elevates when taken in the docs office. Happens all the time. So, you need to take the BP at some other time over a period of days to find out what you are consistently running. The office reading may not be an accurate reflection of your BP.
 
Hey I had this happen back in March due to GH + juice - i managed to pull thru after a nite of partying which landed me in the ER. Now I just tried to go back on a juice only diet only too feel it comming back on with a fury. My echo showed enlarged left ventricle as well which means leakage heart pumps blood leaks backwards. Im going to cut this cycle short at 2 weeks and go get more images taken and then try to low for 4 or 5 months and get re-imaged.. does anybody know how long it takes for this condition to reverse itself? my stats are 6'2 205 and about 8% bf
 
hmm.. 140/80 for 2 months would not cause ventricular hypertrophy alone (enlarged ventricle). As some said, AAS can cause enlarged heart, which corrects when coming off cycle. My question is how was this diagnosed? CXR, ECHO? If you only had a CXR, then you need an ECHO. The ejection fraction (amount of blood the heart pumps) and estimated chamber size can be determined, which can be the beginning to a true diagnosis. Just a blanket statement that your elevated BP caused this is not accurate.

Hope this helps. message me if you need some more info.
 
In a round about way steroids can cause enlarged heart, but thats because they cause increase in BP. Its the High BP that over time cause the enlarged heart.
 
galaxy said:
In a round about way steroids can cause enlarged heart, but thats because they cause increase in BP. Its the High BP that over time cause the enlarged heart.

Thats exactly what the doc said. Anyways, I just found an amazing article in the new teh JUne/July isssue if Muscular Development(amhad Haidar on cover), whcih cited at least 5 studies showing that powerlifters and natural bodybuilders can have enlarged left ventricles from intense weight training.

i'm meeting with the Dr next week, so I'll bring along those studies.
 
Your BP is 140/80 and the Dr. called that cronic High BP???? I dont think this is right. I think shes trying to chump you.....IMO
 
mrdavidn said:
Hey I had this happen back in March due to GH + juice - i managed to pull thru after a nite of partying which landed me in the ER. Now I just tried to go back on a juice only diet only too feel it comming back on with a fury. My echo showed enlarged left ventricle as well which means leakage heart pumps blood leaks backwards. Im going to cut this cycle short at 2 weeks and go get more images taken and then try to low for 4 or 5 months and get re-imaged.. does anybody know how long it takes for this condition to reverse itself? my stats are 6'2 205 and about 8% bf

I think waiting a full 5 months and getting re-imaged is a good idea. Keep training hard, clear those receptors out, and keep the dosages low if and when you go back on. Also image during the cycles.
 
Diagnosis of Lv enlargement has to be done by echo, 10mm wallthickness is the top of the range. Just an EKG with the LVE pattern is not enough. There is however a condition called athletes heart where the heart is enlarged through fitness. AAS increases muscular size of the heart but usually returns to normal after its over. High bp does increase the heart size and long term it can congestive heart failure so its a must to control that.
 
Though this article may be of some interest to you.

Viagra May Reverse Enlarged-Heart Damage
By Amanda Gardner
HealthDay Reporter

SUNDAY, Jan. 23 (HealthDayNews) --Viagra, the drug most often associated with restoring male sexual powers, may play an entirely different role in treating enlarged hearts.

In male mice, sildenafil citrate (the generic name for Viagra) successfully treated enlargement and thickening of the heart, not only stopping further growth of the heart muscle, but also actually reversing the growth and damage that had already taken place.

Trials in humans are slated to get underway later this year.

"If, indeed, what works in mice works in humans, this will become a standard part of care," said Dr. Richard Stein, a national spokesman for the American Heart Association. "This is very important."

"By treating mice with Viagra in doses that would be similar to what a person would get, we found that we could block hypertrophy [enlarging and thickening of the heart muscles] and could prevent progression to heart failure," said study co-author Dr. Hunter Champion, an assistant professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. "Heart failure is a huge problem in the United States. It is the No. 1 reason for hospitalization through Medicare."

The findings, which will be published in the February issue of Nature Medicine, represent a "clinical home run," as Stein put it.

They also represent a scientific breakthrough because they revealed mechanisms involved in heart thickening and the progression to heart failure.

Approximately 65 million Americans have high blood pressure or hypertension, which can lead to cardiac hypertrophy, a thickening of the heart muscle brought on because the heart has to pump harder to get its job done. At least one fourth of people with high blood pressure have cardiac hypertrophy, which also increases the risk of heart failure or sudden death by a factor of two to three, Champion said.

In one experiment, Champion and his colleagues divided 10 to 40 male mice into two groups, one that was fed Viagra and one that received a regular diet. They then constricted the main artery in the mice, causing the heart to pump harder and resulting in a condition essentially the same as hypertrophy.

The mice who got Viagra only developed half the hypertrophy that the other animals did. The Viagra mice also showed 67 percent less muscle fibrosis (stiffening), and also had smaller hearts and improved heart function.

In another experiment, the researchers gave Viagra to part of a group of male mice that had already developed hypertrophy. After two weeks, fibrosis and muscle growth almost completely disappeared in the mice given Viagra while hearts continued to grow in the control mice.

Viagra works, both in the heart and the penis, by inhibiting an enzyme called PDE5A.

In the penis, however, PDE5A relaxes the smooth muscle, allowing the blood to flow and nature to resume its course.

By contrast, in the heart muscle, rather than producing a direct relaxation response, PDE5A helps break down cyclic GMP, a molecule that acts to curb stresses and overgrowth in the heart.

"The result is so impressive because it works on more than just one pathway," Champion said. "A boxer with just one jab in his repertoire is going to lose the fight, but if you have a good right jab, left jab and uppercut, you're going to be a much better fighter."

Experts had not previously known that PDE5A was involved in heart function. They had also suspected that excessive heart muscle growth was an adaptive response to malfunction in the heart. This study, however, indicates that not all hypertrophy is the same and that Viagra might block the "bad" hypertrophy, Champion explained.

In a way, Viagra is coming full circle. The drug was originally developed to dilate coronary blood vessels in people with angina. It didn't work for angina, but while being tested, was revealed to have the erectile dysfunction effect, for which it is now famous.

Champion believed that the effect on the heart may actually be seen in the entire class of drugs, not just Viagra. "It could very well be that Levitra or Cialis would do the same thing," he said, referring to Viagra's two competitors in the erectile dysfunction marketplace.

In general, the researchers are ahead of the game because Viagra is already approved. "The beautiful thing about this drug is we know that there are 20 million prescriptions written for Viagra. We know it to be a very safe drug," Champion said.

It may be a while, though, before Viagra as heart therapy becomes a possibility: Heart failure drug trials take time to prove measurable results.

But Champion added, "I will say, if it is half as impressive as we see in the mice, it might not take that long."

Researchers will also be looking to see if Viagra has any effect on other systems in the body
 
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