Endurance guy needs advice

[treadwell]

Endurance guy needs first cycle advice

This is a bit wordy, but I want to paint as accurate and complete a picture as possible. I’ll really appreciate your patience. I’m 36 years old, and want to do my first cycle.

For years I struggled with my weight. I’m 5’10 and had hovered around 205-215 since my early 20s. I started lifting several years ago, was active, ran, biked a lot, but always struggled with my diet and a bf% over 20%.

About a year ago I made a commitment to take things more seriously and signed on with a talented trainer, who helped me add structure to my routine and approach, tweaked my diet several times, and for the past 4 months I’ve held steady at 180-185# and 10-12%bf. I have ab definition for the first time in my life and feel great. You can check out my profile for a recent pic.

I’m now really struggling to pack on more weight – as my metabolism is unbelievably unforgiving when I start adding more calories - I put on fat very easily. So I consume approx 2200 cals a day…lift 4 days a week and do cardio at a HR of 140-160 for 45 mins 6 days a week. I eat clean, take a multivitamin, zinc, extra C, joint support and a metabolic booster daily. I use creatine post-workout and glutamine before bed.

I also have started training to do triathlons in the summer of 2006 with a buddy (a guy more like a lil’ bro to me – he’s 29 and jacked, it seems to come so easily to him and sometimes it really makes me nuts). Are endurance training and weight training incompatible? Or will they compliment each other and will my cardio help keep me lean while I cycle and increase my caloric intake?

Some of the girls at the gym started coming up to me a few months ago and telling me I looked really good – that I had accomplished a lot and should be proud to be showing such great results. This made me feel incredible, as I’m sure you can all relate.

Call me a narcissist, but I want more than that.

I do work with a trainer who is completely natural, and tells me we can do this naturally. But I feel like I have to work so unbelievably hard for minimal gains, and my monthly measurements ebb back and forth, never really lurching forward and leaving me feeling discouraged and de-motivated.

I want to do a cycle, but am torn whether I want to do one which will help me make slow, sustainable gains without giving the outward sign that I’ve gone nuts on test, breaking out all over my body or putting pounds of water on my face or, conversely, one that packs on 15-20 lbs (prolly a combination of sust, deca, dbol and pct) for immediate result and gratification. I work in sales and need to present myself as professional, confident and charismatic. It may turn out that a 10-12 week cycle of test and pct for a few weeks is just fine, and I’ll gear up for the next, more involved cycle. But honestly, I’ve changed usernames and need some encouragement.

Your thoughts, gentlemen? I need a big bro here.

 

[25homes]

Bro your first cycle you dont need all of that....just take test 500mg per week and jump start with the dbal...have clomid and nolva for PCT...might want some letro and nolva for during the cycle to keep water retention down so things arent so noticable....you could throw some winny in at the end if you wanted...winny is a great indurance drug...Bro really no need for the Deca IMO...

 

[wayneboard1]

This is a bit wordy, but I want to paint as accurate and complete a picture as possible. I’ll really appreciate your patience. I’m 36 years old, and want to do my first cycle.

For years I struggled with my weight. I’m 5’10 and had hovered around 205-215 since my early 20s. I started lifting several years ago, was active, ran, biked a lot, but always struggled with my diet and a bf% over 20%.

About a year ago I made a commitment to take things more seriously and signed on with a talented trainer, who helped me add structure to my routine and approach, tweaked my diet several times, and for the past 4 months I’ve held steady at 180-185# and 10-12%bf. I have ab definition for the first time in my life and feel great. You can check out my profile for a recent pic.

I’m now really struggling to pack on more weight – as my metabolism is unbelievably unforgiving when I start adding more calories - I put on fat very easily. So I consume approx 2200 cals a day…lift 4 days a week and do cardio at a HR of 140-160 for 45 mins 6 days a week. I eat clean, take a multivitamin, zinc, extra C, joint support and a metabolic booster daily. I use creatine post-workout and glutamine before bed.

I also have started training to do triathlons in the summer of 2006 with a buddy (a guy more like a lil’ bro to me – he’s 29 and jacked, it seems to come so easily to him and sometimes it really makes me nuts). Are endurance training and weight training incompatible? Or will they compliment each other and will my cardio help keep me lean while I cycle and increase my caloric intake?

Some of the girls at the gym started coming up to me a few months ago and telling me I looked really good – that I had accomplished a lot and should be proud to be showing such great results. This made me feel incredible, as I’m sure you can all relate.

Call me a narcissist, but I want more than that.

I do work with a trainer who is completely natural, and tells me we can do this naturally. But I feel like I have to work so unbelievably hard for minimal gains, and my monthly measurements ebb back and forth, never really lurching forward and leaving me feeling discouraged and de-motivated.

I want to do a cycle, but am torn whether I want to do one which will help me make slow, sustainable gains without giving the outward sign that I’ve gone nuts on test, breaking out all over my body or putting pounds of water on my face or, conversely, one that packs on 15-20 lbs (prolly a combination of sust, deca, dbol and pct) for immediate result and gratification. I work in sales and need to present myself as professional, confident and charismatic. It may turn out that a 10-12 week cycle of test and pct for a few weeks is just fine, and I’ll gear up for the next, more involved cycle. But honestly, I’ve changed usernames and need some encouragement.

Your thoughts, gentlemen? I need a big bro here.

Well first off congrats on your accomplishment, it is something to be proud of. Second, it will be harder to gain weight with all that cardio and if you are training for ironman type events, you don't want extra weight do you? The general rule on that is no, but you are the one making your decision. From your desire for some lean gains and some help with endurance all the while keeping a low profile, I have the perfect cycle for you. It is:

1) Test E at 250 a week for 12 weeks.
2) EQ at 400 a week for 15 weeks.
3) Nolvadex for PCT and Arimidex for during your cycle to help with any water retention.

This cycle is a good one and a favorite of mine. Lean quality gains, little or no sides, I noticed some good endurance from the EQ and felt great when on it. Also, make sure you are getting 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight during this cycle and drinking at least a gallon of water each day. You might ned to cut back on the cardio to 3-4 days, as I found I got a bit burnt out when doing a ton of cardio AND intense weights. And last but not least, SLEEP. You need a lot of it because you grow when sleeping not when lifting. Good luck bro.

 

[1392477]

what wayneboard said is right on
good luck

 

[nydj66]

Great job on your progress so far!

My situation is similar to yours so I'll tell you what I've found. Weight training and endurance training do compliment each other but the endurance training does limit the amount of mass you can pack on.

I've had the best luck with test and deca (low doses) for endurance training. I've also tried EQ as Wayneboard suggests but it me it caused sever muscle pumps that prevented me from running more than 2 miles at a time.

For a first cycle, I'd suggest just test alone. See how that works out for you and add different compounds from there. 500mg/week of test enanthate (split into 2 weekly injections) should give you some nice lean muscle gain. In some lucky people that amount will add quite a bit of muscle.

If bloat is a problem for you at that dosage, add 0.5mg/day of arimidex. That will lower your estrogen levels and eliminate any bloat. Also keep nolvadex on hand in case gyno symptoms develop. You can alway use the nolvadex up during PCT.

 

[USHP]

Great job on your progress so far!

My situation is similar to yours so I'll tell you what I've found. Weight training and endurance training do compliment each other but the endurance training does limit the amount of mass you can pack on.

I've had the best luck with test and deca (low doses) for endurance training. I've also tried EQ as Wayneboard suggests but it me it caused sever muscle pumps that prevented me from running more than 2 miles at a time.

For a first cycle, I'd suggest just test alone. See how that works out for you and add different compounds from there. 500mg/week of test enanthate (split into 2 weekly injections) should give you some nice lean muscle gain. In some lucky people that amount will add quite a bit of muscle.

If bloat is a problem for you at that dosage, add 0.5mg/day of arimidex. That will lower your estrogen levels and eliminate any bloat. Also keep nolvadex on hand in case gyno symptoms develop. You can alway use the nolvadex up during PCT.

This would be my choice but, Wayneboard's is a very good one also. I like this one because test alone for a first timer is keeping it simple. I'd definitely try Wayneboard's at a future date if I was you. The only time endurance training becomes incompatible with weight training is when the endurance training starts to put you into a catabolic state and your gains stop or start to reverse so you need to keep all your training balanced and that may be tough for you if you're going to train for a triathlon.

Key for you is diet no matter which cycle you choose. 2200 cals. is not enough. If I consume only 1 gram of protein per lb of bodyweight when I'm off cycle I will start to slightly lose gains. You want to do some research on your calorie intake and get it right, try to get your calories spread out in 6 meals, eat low glycemic carbs and get at least 1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight per day. These things will help you avoid insulin spikes that trigger your body to store fat. Drink plenty of water. Don't let yourself get to the point of overtraining. Check your resting heart rate daily and if it starts to climb or if your heart rate starts to take noticeably longer to normalize after cardio your overtraining.

Do this right and know what your doing before you start. Don't waste all the hard work you've done to this point.

 

[big49ersfan]

if you are wanting to do an ironman/ marathon anything like that adding bulk is only going to make this more difficult. just bear that in mind choose size or endurance events.

you can do weights went during endurance events getting stronger always helps getting bigger however doesnt. this is diet dependnat just make your mind up and realise the consequences.

on a side note there is a massive thread aboutr endurance athletes in the pro sports section read it is useful and most of them said the best cycle for a n endurance athelete was what wayne said

1) Test E at 250 a week for 12 weeks.
2) EQ at 400 a week for 15 weeks.
3) Nolvadex for PCT and Arimidex for during your cycle to help with any water retention.

i think it would also be worth considering a decent dose of var alone i.e 60-80mg as first cycle for either aim. or using var as a kickstart for the eq/test cycle but 3 compounds is alot for a first cycle althought i used four on mine ( a great cycle but only issue was i dont know what thing did what which means i have no more expericne about how i react to different compounds for future cycles)

 

[taste-icles]

I switched from riding 75-100 miles a day everyday 365 to lifting, and in my 30's it is not so easy to change things so dramatically. Take this from an endurance guy that will do more cardio in a month than most EF board members in a year

I found that dbol worked well and I never got water gain like most, winny fucked up my knees and back on the bike. Primo was amazing for me, lower calories, too many shots though. EQ would be pretty nice for you, but with the marathoning, you'll find like i did that your energy levels are low and that the benefit in bulk are NOT what you want to carry around on a marathon. It takes a LOT more energy to carry a 'jacked' body than say, lance armstrong's build. The next time a ripped 215lb guy wins the ironman, I'll eat my own head.

Winny = good for short distance guys, sprinters, etc, but watch out for knee and elbow pain
Dbol = worked for me, but I ended up with too much weight
EQ = probably one of the better choices second to :drumroll:
primo = my pick for endurance/cardio

 

[treadwell]

Size is the more immediate goal - I don't plan on doing major triathlons like the ironman - smaller events for now - I'm an enthusiast but not a pro. Intend to do a marathon in the fall, and training for that will entail only one long cardio day a week (and 3-4 shorter days). If I planned on EQ for 15 weeks and 250 ml Sust for 12, how far in would it be before I started to see some real gains (so I don't second-guess myself - this is a spendy cycle)?

 

[J_Train]

Great post. I'm in the exact same situation as you Tread...just started training for my first Tri and just started Wayne's cycle (Sus instead of Ent). I'm 35, 5'9", 208lbs, 12%bf. I've done three cycles over two years and have learned a ton from research and this board.

Something to consider: You really can't train for a tri and train for MAXIMUM lean muscle gains on a cycle at the same time. You should choose. Cycles should be GOAL based. Determine your goal and create your cycle and training routine from there.

If size is your immediate/more important goal, i'd recommend Test Ent(500mg/ew)/Dbol(25mg/ed) as your first cycle. If you want to nail your first Tri while making moderate size gains, go with Wayne's cycle. You will notice results in 2-4 weeks either way. Gains will be steady but not as great as a Test/Dbol cycle. At these doses, you shouldn't worry about going nuts, breaking out or holding water...one should always monitor these things though. Always have a plan for PCT BEFORE you start your cycle.

Good luck bro.