ECA dose?

[Spidey]

I have just finished my 2 weeks of clen and I am switching to ECA for the next 2 weeks. The capsules I have contain 100 mg caffein, 10 mg ephedra and 160 mg aspirin. Today, I took one with breakfast and one around noon for a total of 200mg caff. + 20 mg eph. + 320 mg asp. I used to be a heavy coffee drinker so caffein doesn't really affect me all that much now.

What dosage is appropriate for me? All opinions welcome.

 

[Spidey]

bump

 

[MUSTANG_18]

I usually take about
20-25mg Ephedrine
200-400mg Caffine
150mg Asprine (sometimes I don't use it)
I take that 2 times a day, once when I wake up and once half hour before I train

M18

 

[satchboogie]

50mg efedrine hcl with a double shot of espresso does the trick for me.

 

[variation]

shit, I don't feel anything unless I take atleast 80mg ephedrine, but it appears you have ephedra (which contains alkaloids) ephedrine is only one of the alkaloids I think it makes up 8% of it? someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

[satchboogie]

variation...

take PURE efedrine hcl bro!
80mg will wire you like a fuckin speed freak.. trust me!

 

[variation]

I did satch ;p (pure ephedrine hcl/8mg tablet.. so I usually take 10), just stating that it looked like spidey had ephedra.

it gets me moderately wired.. but usually by mid afternoon I feel like crashing when I use it.. hehe

 

[satchboogie]

ah man.....

the next day after efedrine i feel like dying!
bad comedown!

 

[Spidey]

shit, I don't feel anything unless I take atleast 80mg ephedrine, but it appears you have ephedra (which contains alkaloids) ephedrine is only one of the alkaloids I think it makes up 8% of it? someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Just a typo; The caps contain 10 mg ephedrine HCl + 100 mg caff. + 160 mg aspirin.

 

[Spidey]

I usually take about
20-25mg Ephedrine
200-400mg Caffine
150mg Asprine (sometimes I don't use it)
I take that 2 times a day, once when I wake up and once half hour before I train

M18

So, you take a total of 40-50 mg ephedrine + 400-800 mg caffein + 300 mg aspirin for the day, right?

I guess I could double my current dose to just about match that (except a bit more aspirin). Problem is, I only have enough for 10 or 11 days at that dosage and the stuff I bought isn't cheap. It's getting hard to find preformulated ECA stacks because of all the bad press and looming ban on ephedrine.

I will try it and see if I can handle the jitters

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Forget the aspirin.

Take up to 150 mg ephedrine HCL over the course of the day in 3-hour increments. (i.e. 25 mg doses) Take about 100 mg of caffeine with each 25 mg dose.

 

[BigAndy69]

I can't handle more than 50mg (HCL)

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Really? 50 mg is a pre-workout boost for me... Hell, they've dosed your soldiers up there with up 100 mg at a time...

I suppose prudence is necessary... Perhaps work up in 3-hour intervals to see what your tolerance is. As everything in this world, individual results may vary...

 

[BigAndy69]

Really? 50 mg is a pre-workout boost for me... Hell, they've dosed your soldiers up there with up 100 mg at a time...

I suppose prudence is necessary... Perhaps work up in 3-hour intervals to see what your tolerance is. As everything in this world, individual results may vary...

I mean I can't use more than 50mg comfortably. I can go up to 100mg but then I get chest pains and other problems. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we stack it with Caffeine.

I'm very sensitive to stimulants. I use to have trouble sleeping if I had a can of cola past 7pm. lol

 

[Spidey]

Forget the aspirin.

Take up to 150 mg ephedrine HCL over the course of the day in 3-hour increments. (i.e. 25 mg doses) Take about 100 mg of caffeine with each 25 mg dose.

I could just start drinking coffee again. My coffee is roughly 2.5 to 3 x strength so a 15 oz mug contains roughly 1g caffein! I drank 1 to 2 of these a day for decades. As you can imagine, caffein really doesn't affect me that much now. In fact, it got to the point that my heart rate was actually higher if I skipped my morning coffee; how is that for screwed up? If I had a dr's appt in the morning and skipped my coffee, my heart rate would be in the 80's but if I had my coffee, it would be in the mid 60's.

I have no prior experience with ephedrine though. I don't know what to expect as far as jitters, insomnia, etc.

 

[variation]

aspirin is useful to increase release of noradrenaline, greater thermogenic ability when used with caffiene in particular, this is why they use ECA.

of course some side effects of using the aspiring can be a depletion of glutathione
in the liver, which can easily be countered by consuming some protein with that particular amino acid, also it has effects on prostaglandin hormones, but not so adversely.

 

[Spidey]

aspirin is useful to increase release of noradrenaline, greater thermogenic ability when used with caffiene in particular, this is why they use ECA.

of course some side effects of using the aspiring can be a depletion of glutathione
in the liver, which can easily be countered by consuming some protein with that particular amino acid, also it has effects on prostaglandin hormones, but not so adversely.

Useful information. Thanks.

One little thing though. Glutathione is a tripeptide (GLY-CYS-GLU), not an amino acid. I think it is ubiquitous in all cells (not just liver) in up to millimolar concentrations (enormously concentrated by physiological standards). It is perhaps the body's most important antioxidant without which, cells would not survive.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Aspirin

In theory, aspirin could help to increase the efficacy of ephedrine and caffeine and that’s why it’s often included in many fat burners. But when researchers actually looked to see exactly how much aspirin contributed to the overall efficacy of ephedrine and caffeine, they found that it had little, if any, effect. (Despite this, many supplement makers are still including "A" in their ECA stacks.)

Now, normally, it wouldn’t be a big deal if you included something that may or may not help ephedrine and caffeine much in terms of efficacy, but in this case, aspirin can be potentially harmful. It’s been shown that as little as 10 to 75 mg can cause gastrointestinal bleeding in normal humans. This can be life threatening in some cases. Definitely not worth an added 1% in efficacy. (6-11) Also note that some companies use white willow bark, which is sort of an herbal aspirin.

6. Horton TJ, Geissler CA. "Post-prandial thermogenesis with ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin in lean, pre-disposed obese and obese women." Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1996 Feb;20(2):91-7

7. Dulloo AG, Miller DS. "Aspirin as a promoter of ephedrine-induced thermogenesis: potential use in the treatment of obesity." Am J Clin Nutr 1987 Mar;45(3):564-9

8. Prichard PJ, et al. "Human gastric mucosal bleeding induced by low dose aspirin, but not warfarin." BMJ 1989 Feb 25;298(6672):493-6

9. Kallmann JW, et al. "Effects of low doses of aspirin, 10 mg and 30 mg daily, on bleeding time, thromboxane production and 6-keto-PGF1 alpha excretion in healthy humans." Thromb Res 1987 Feb 15;45(4):355-61

10. Cryer B, Feldman M. "Effects of very low dose daily, long-term aspirin therapy on gastrie, duodenal, and rectal prostaglandin levels and on mucosal injury in healthy humans." Gastroenterology 1999 Jul;117(1):17-25

11. Sorensen HT, et al. "Risk of upper gastrointestinal bleeding associated with the use of low-dose aspirin." Am J Gastroenterol 2000 Sep;95(9):2218-24

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Aspirin
Aspirin {salicyclic acid acetate} and it's naturally occurring methyl ester (methyl salicylate)—found in the leaves of Gaultheria procumbrens and on the bark of Betula lenta—have long been used as analgesics, anti-inflammatories, antipyretics and recently as anti-coagulants. The "A" portion of ECA, aspirin has been thought of potentiating the thermogenic and lipolytic properties of both ephedrine and caffeine. Recent research seems to contradict this however. At a study at The University of London's Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, 40 women (20 non-obese and 20 obese) were given either ephedrine and caffeine (30 mg and 100 mg) or ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin (30 mg, 100 mg, and 300 mg) post prandially (1050 kJ liquid meal). Using indirect calorimetry, observations were made in all groups every 30 minutes for 160 minutes. There was no significant differences between the groups that received aspirin and the groups that did not. We conclude that aspirin does not potentiate the acute thermic effect of ephedrine and caffeine.6

In another study conducted at King's College in London, it was demonstrated that aspirin does not potentiate the thermogenic response to ephedrine in lean women and only slightly so in obese women.7 The increase seen in this study represented a 1.2 kcal per hour increase in metabolism for lean women and a 2.4 kcal per hour increase in metabolism in obese women over use of ephedrine alone, which over an entire week, would represent less than one ounce of bodyweight. We feel that this is insignificant.7

Based on these two studies, we feel that aspirin and its analogs do not play a substantial role in inducing or increasing thermogenesis and/or lipolysis but they do have the potential to induce SAEs when consumed over long periods of time (e.g. ulceration of the stomach and increases in bleeding times). Therefore, we feel that aspirin and it's analogs should not be used in any thermogenic/lipolytic stack.

6) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.
7) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I could just start drinking coffee again. My coffee is roughly 2.5 to 3 x strength so a 15 oz mug contains roughly 1g caffein! I drank 1 to 2 of these a day for decades. As you can imagine, caffein really doesn't affect me that much now. In fact, it got to the point that my heart rate was actually higher if I skipped my morning coffee; how is that for screwed up? If I had a dr's appt in the morning and skipped my coffee, my heart rate would be in the 80's but if I had my coffee, it would be in the mid 60's.

I have no prior experience with ephedrine though. I don't know what to expect as far as jitters, insomnia, etc.

You don't really need that much caffeine with ephedrine although that is the dogma. About 100 mg/25mg creates a nice synergy -- more is perhaps what's contributing to some of the folks that have difficulties with ephedrine in the higher dosage ranges?

 

[ProteinFiend]

You don't really need that much caffeine with ephedrine although that is the dogma. About 100 mg/25mg creates a nice synergy -- more is perhaps what's contributing to some of the folks that have difficulties with ephedrine in the higher dosage ranges?

caffine/10 = # of milligrams of ephedrine hcl

200mg caffine, 24mg (tabs come in 8mg) of ephedrine is what i usually do... sometimes i throw a baby asprin (84mg) in there... supposed to help release fatty acids to be burned as fuel.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

That's a pretty common combination for caffeine/eph; I think you can do fine with lower amounts, but if you like it and tolerate it fine (i.e. that would put you at 1200+ mg caffeine on a 150 mg eph day)...

As for the aspirin, read above.

 

[variation]

sorry about that spidey, don't mean to spread misinformation, I was slightly confused there, I actually had to remember all amino acids in chemistry class at one point, so I don't know why I made the error, wasn't thinking ;p .. but thanks for correcting.