Down the Tubes with Dubya

[the nature boy]

no not at all, but clinton got blamed for downsizing did he not? and the downsized military that was used in afghanastan is what clinton handed down to dubya. if you dispute this then I have to question whether you are a sentient being or not.

 

[RyanH]

Ladies and Gentlemen---

Ttlpkg is absolutely right. Bush has proposed bold policy, but it's bold INCONSISTENT policy that he's proposed:

Bush claims he is a free trader.
**flip flop**
Tariffs on steel imposed.

Bush says Arafat should stay.
**flip flop**
Arafat should go.

A new government agency is not needed.
**flip flop**
A new government agency is needed, afterall.

Bush contends that he will never allow stem cell research.
**flip flop""
Bush allows stem cell research.

Bush is only REACTING to situations in hopes of being re-elected. It's no secret that West Virginia is vital to Bushie's re-election and so Bushie contradicts his free trade position with tariffs.

I thought that the Bushies were above Clintonesque campaigning to get re-elected. Guess not, eh?

 

[Longhorn85]

no not at all, but clinton got blamed for downsizing did he not? and the downsized military that was used in afghanastan is what clinton handed down to dubya. if you dispute this then I have to question whether you are a sentient being or not.

No dispute with that, but that is no reason to thank Bill, rather praise W for clever utilization of the military, or rather, appointing strong leaders like Rumsfeld and allowing the Generals to do their jobs without interference.

You guys are going to get sick of me today, I am on leave this week and have nothing but time.

 

[the nature boy]

well I honestly don't think W cleverly utilized the military. He probably woke up from his afternoon nap and had some fruit punch and said "blow em up" and the generals ran with it.

 

[circusgirl]

dunno how to quote here but -

Naw, I can't make cookies, my cooking tastes like shit. My husband does all the cooking in my house, I clean up and do the washing up.

Anyway I'm too busy practicing my axe kick for my upcoming tkd class - RRRRAAAAARRRRR!!!!!! *crash* *bang* *wallop* and other old batman series sounds.

Economics 101 -
Seeing as Strong Island doesn't want to enlighten us, I thought I might.

Capitalism - in its modern form originally outlined by Adam Smith in the Wealth of Nations. Bsed on the principles of supply and demand setting prices, wages etc. Incidentally, Smith imagined society as a network of independent contractors, not a society of wage-slaves. he imagined EVERYONE would be self-employed. Scott Adams actually talks about this quite a lot in some of his books, although he's not exactly a prominent economic theorist.

Socialism - concentrates on the added value that results from labour, and points out that a few individuals amass the profit from other's labour. theory is that ALL added value comes from labour, hence labour is the only important commodity. The theory of socialism doesn't include JUST political socialism, it's also relevant in terms of how we percieve economic theory. Marx may not have known shit about politics and human nature, nevertheless, his ideas are interesting from an anlytical point of view, also his view on conducting historical research, and on linguistics, particularly sociolinguistics...

Social Democracy - realises that unbridled capitalism is ok if everyone starts from a level playing field. However, one generation on, this isn't so, and so the dynamics of the cream rising to the top put forward by Smith don't apply any more, and you get a dissatisfied underclass. Hence it being in everyone's interest to allow equality of opportunity.

The Economist some time ago had an interesting article on the subject of economic politics that said that socialism missed the main point - that inequality was not the problem, but people living in poverty was. Make sure no-one is living in abject poverty they have no way out of and many social problems will disappear. If you exclude people from social participation or refuse to give them the chance to better their situation you create an underclass with nothing to lose -> crime, violence, anti-social stone-age tribal behaviour.... I can't remember which issue, it would have been about 6 months ago. Give them something useful and beneficial to do and it keeps people occupied and in society.

There you have in, economics 101....

 

[strong island]

Bush claims he is a free trader.
**flip flop**
Tariffs on steel imposed.

>>>>>Bush it taking care of American industry...thats his job.

Bush says Arafat should stay.
**flip flop**
Arafat should go.

>>>>He never said he should stay permanantly...he tried to give him a shot. Clinton kissed Arafat's ass and Arafat took advantage.

A new government agency is not needed.
**flip flop**
A new government agency is needed, afterall.

>>>>Agency is needed or atleast reorganization. Again Bush trying to protect Americans.

Bush contends that he will never allow stem cell research.
**flip flop""
Bush allows stem cell research.

>>>>Bush is allowing research on EXISTING stem cells. This will help us understand this new technology.

 

[Longhorn85]

Ttlpkg is absolutely right.

(I just quoted the part I like)

I would not characterize W's policy as inconsisitent. (surprise). There are clearly "by exception" cases. He never said a new govt agency was not needed, but that the govt was too big. Standing up Home Defense will consolidate reduntant functions in our existing govt and make them more effective and accountable. That is makes sense and is consistent with a desire for smaller, more efficient govt.

In the case of Arafat, he was given an opportunity, and he failed. Now Bush is the only American President to say, after giving him every chance, that Arafat must go for there to be peace in the Middle East.

 

[RyanH]

thats pretty weak ryan. I guess Clinton never needed an update on any geopolitical topics from his advisers.

what's weak about it? President Clinton is well-known, even by his enemies, to have a broad understanding of complicated policy matters, whereas Bushie had a difficult time during the campaign of even recalling the names of foreign leaders.

And once Bush took office, he sits down with his advisers and asks them to "tell me about Europe." One would think that the President would already at least have a working knowledge of an important CONTINENT such as Europe. But, Bushie didn't. Sad.

 

[musclebrains]

Bush is only REACTING to situations in hopes of being re-elected. It's no secret that West Virginia is vital to Bushie's re-election and so Bushie contradicts his free trade position with tariffs.

I thought that the Bushies were above Clintonesque campaigning to get re-elected. Guess not, eh?

Which is exactly Krugman's point. Dubya's flipflopping in the naked interest of politics is excused by his supporters (as "flexibility," etc.). Meanwhile, they continue to demonize Clinton for having the courage to take very unpopular positions. In Dubya's case, we're supposed to chuckle at his incoherence and then climb on board -- as if what we are climbing on board won't tranform itself over night. In Clinton's case, we're supposed to revile his memory for his mainly consistent political positions because he lied about a blow job.

 

[Longhorn85]

He probably woke up from his afternoon nap and had some fruit punch and said "blow em up" and the generals ran with it.

You're right, that wouldn't be clever, that would be an act of pure genius!