Does Clomiphene Citrate really work as we think it does?

[bigtbone]

Clomid never has seemed to work for me post-cycle. I am beginning my 3rd year of medical school and we were recently studying ovulation-inducing drugs and hence clomid.

It's mechanism of action is primarily as an "antiestrogen." It occupies estrogen receptors and "deceives" the hypothalamus into sensing a low estrogen environment. The hypothalamus in turn signals the pituitary to increase gonadotropin (FSH and LH) release. Hence, Clomid doesn't directly induce FSH and LH release.

Given that males have such low reference ranges for estrogen, does deceiving the hypothalamus into sensing a low level of estrogen really cause it to release FSH and LH in men? And, if so, wouldn't aromatase levels increase resulting in greater conversion of testosterone into estrogen resulting in feedback suppression of gonadotropin release?

Just curious if anyone has read literature concerning clomiphene effects in men, or if anyone has any thoughts.

 

[satchboogie]

do steroids really work like we think they do?

 

[bigtbone]

do steroids really work like we think they do?

Haha.....funny guy on our hands huh?

 

[Dark_Stalker]

LOL

 

[bissenmir]

I know clomid and nova increase load size! So it must do something...my old cycle without, lead to total muscle lose and my last cycle with, I retained 10lbs. Now I'm on my second cycle with.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Here is a study I came across...




Title: Effect of raising endogenous testosterone levels in impotent men with secondary hypogonadism: Double blind placebo-controlled trial with clomiphene citrate.
Author, Editor, Inventor: Guay-Andre-T {a}; Bansal-Sudhir; Heatley-Gerald-J
Author Address: {a} Section Endocrinol., Lahey Clinc North, 1 Essex Cent. Drive, Peabody, MA 01960, USA
Source: Journal-of-Clinical-Endocrinology-and-Metabolism. 1995; 80 (12) 3546-3552.
Publication Year: 1995
Document Type: Article-
ISSN (International Standard Serial Number): 0021-972X
Language: English
Abstract: Secondary hypogonadism is not an infrequent abnormality in older patients presenting with the primary complaint of erectile dysfunction. Because of the role of testosterone in mediating sexual desire and erectile function in men, these patients are usually treated with exogenous testosterone, which, while elevating the circulating androgens, suppresses gonadotropins from the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. The response of this form of therapy, although extolled in the lay literature, has usually not been effective in restoring or even improving sexual function. This failure of response could be the result of suppression of gonadotropins or the lack of a cause and effect relationship between sexual function and circulating androgens in this group of patients. Further, because exogenous testosterone can potentially increase the risk of prostate disease, it is important to be sure of the benefit sought, i.e. an increase in sexual function, In an attempt to answer this question, we measured the hormone levels and studied the sexual function in 17 patients with erectile dysfunction who were found to have secondary hypogonadism. This double blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study consisted of treatment with clomiphene citrate and a placebo for 2 months each. Similar to our previous observations, LH, FSH, and total and free testosterone levels showed a significant elevation in response to clomiphene citrate over the response to placebo. However, sexual function, as monitored by questionnaires and nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity testing, did not improve except for some limited parameters in younger and healthier men. The results confirmed that there can be a functional secondary hypogonadism in men on an out-patient basis, but correction of the hormonal status does not universally reverse the associated erectile dysfunction to normal, thus requiring closer scrutiny of claims of cause and effect relationships between hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction.

 

[bigtbone]

Excellent Bulldog.......Thank you. I think I'll go pull this article and read the whole thing. Did you read the whole article or just the abstract, and if so, did they mention how much of an increase and the duration of the increase?

 

[Spartacus]

Similar to our previous observations, LH, FSH, and total and free testosterone levels showed a significant elevation in response to clomiphene citrate over the response to placebo. ....so is it beneficial to take clomid "alone"?

 

[Bulldog_10]

Excellent Bulldog.......Thank you. I think I'll go pull this article and read the whole thing. Did you read the whole article or just the abstract, and if so, did they mention how much of an increase and the duration of the increase?

I actually did not read the whole article...sorry bro. but I can find some more stuff on that if you need it. I think i also came across a few that said clomid didnt do shit...i'll try to find them again.

 

[DeepZenPill]

Similar to our previous observations, LH, FSH, and total and free testosterone levels showed a significant elevation in response to clomiphene citrate over the response to placebo. ....so is it beneficial to take clomid "alone"?

I've actually heard of people running cycles of clomid and claiming they made gains. Personally I would never bother with that because I hate the clomid sides. Sure I'll use it to retain the gains I made on a cycle, but that's because it's usually effective. I wouldn't want to experience the clomid sides if I didn't absolutely have to.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

there are DOZENS, perhaps hundreds, of studies that show that clomiphene works..

and it only takes small amount of extra E to be suppressive in males..

and contrary to your texts.. if that is what they actually implied... estrogen both endogenous and xeno have quite an impact on male fertility and testosterone. obesity being one the new causes of endogenous problems, particularly childhood and pubertal.

one need only look at the massive drop in fertility rates around the globe, mostly due to xenoestrogens, to realize this.