Does anyone here work on two rep ranges at the same time?

[36drew]

In theory, couldn't one periodize training while working in two rep ranges at the same time?

i.e. If you did like (volume & load/ reduce volume & more intensity)
Upper 5x5/3x3
Lower 4x12/2x8
Off
Upper 4x12/2x8
Lower 5x5/ 3x3
Off
Off

Would something like this work? Would it be geared a bit more toward size because of the higher rep ranges?

I dunno, the sets and reps are arbitrary and just something I threw out there but it was on my mind.

 

[RipStone]

Yes. What you are getting at is commonly used and it is called the conjugate method. Westside Barbell has made it infamous, but it was orginally used European Eatern-Bloc training methods.

Westside programs train for three goals at once.

1. max effort lifting:
2. dynamic effort lifting
3. repetition effort lifting

 

[Protobuilder]

Yep. It's becoming more common, I think, as people get further away from block-type periodization (or maybe it's called linear periodization). Rather than train, say, "max strength" (1-4 reps) for 3-4 weeks, and then switch to speed or power and do that for a few weeks, you essentially train several qualities at once. It's not uncommon, and I've heard it works very well.

One other variable to consider, and it's a big one, is the %1RM you'll train with week-to-week . . .

 

[d-dub]

I am doing something similiar at the moment.
Day1: Lower Strength - aim for 3-5 rep range on sets
Day2: Upper Strength - aim for 3-5 rep range on sets
off
off
Day5:Full body - Choose Speed or Hypertrophy
off
off

Seems to be working well at the moment.

 

[36drew]

I am doing something similiar at the moment.
Day1: Lower Strength - aim for 3-5 rep range on sets
Day2: Upper Strength - aim for 3-5 rep range on sets
off
off
Day5:Full body - Choose Speed or Hypertrophy
off
off

Seems to be working well at the moment.

Care to give a more detailed breakdown?

 

[blut wump]

In theory, couldn't one periodize training while working in two rep ranges at the same time?

i.e. If you did like (volume & load/ reduce volume & more intensity)
Upper 5x5/3x3
Lower 4x12/2x8
Off
Upper 4x12/2x8
Lower 5x5/ 3x3
Off
Off

Would something like this work? Would it be geared a bit more toward size because of the higher rep ranges?

I dunno, the sets and reps are arbitrary and just something I threw out there but it was on my mind.

With slightly different rep-ranges that's how I used to train, years ago, when I had a training partner. I recently ran a variant of that breakdown which was more along the lines of
squat/posterior chain
chest, shoulders, lats

I think I ploughed on a little too long with this and ran into overreaching but my weights were climbing nicely across the board.

To me this exemplified the difference between a routine and a program. As a routine it works well but I had no program set up around it. As such, when I hit the wall, I was stuffed. It happened a few weeks sooner than expected which was a nuisance.

I was going 5 sets of 3 for 'heavy' and 4 sets of 8 for 'light' and increasing weights each week. I think that next time I try to run something along these lines, it'll be closer to a Westside template.

 

[stormin67]

Have you tried the 100 rep set ? I do it every once in awhile, it's incredible. Use approx. 50% of your 1 rep max. Start your set, when you hit the oint you have to stop, rest for about a min, then continue where you left off. The set is complete when you hit 100 reps. Last time I worked this one chest, I was sore to the bone for about 3 days.

 

[blut wump]

I'd rather use a little more weight and spread it across a few sessions and not be sore to the bone.

 

[stormin67]

It's just me but, I prefer to get the most out of every set. Being somewhat sore lets me know that I accomplished it.

 

[Madcow2]

It's just me but, I prefer to get the most out of every set. Being somewhat sore lets me know that I accomplished it.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but I'd look at little more closely at the correlation between DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) and favorable hypertrophy/strength increase over time. More than anything DOMS is correlated to frequency of stimulus. You get very sore on that occasional 100 rep set, a new exercise, taking a long layoff and starting again, whiplash in a car accident is another good one. Most get reliably albeit mild to moderate soreness training an exercise at 1x per week frequency - increasing frequency to 2-3x per week will yield anything from zero DOMS to barely noticable after a brief acclimation period (and yet there is a lot of science and empirical evidence to back up this frequency as supperior for strength gains as well as hypertrophy - and when I say a lot that basically means everything).

DOMS is not so much about recovery but conditioning. The nervous system tends to be the limiting factor in the application of stimulus and overtraining rather than the muscle. I know that's probably not what you've been reading in bodybuilding magazines or seeing on BBing boards, but I can't control that and can only tell you that those sources more often than not are horrendously ignorant and totally reliant upon drugs to get gains out of very poor stimulus.

 

[Protobuilder]

To me this exemplified the difference between a routine and a program. As a routine it works well but I had no program set up around it. As such, when I hit the wall, I was stuffed.

Great point. Most people have NO idea what a "program" means as opposed to their "routine."

And I'm w/ you on the muscle soreness bizness. It used to make me feel good to get torched, but now I find it's a real pain in the ass as I try to do my other training, and use higher frequency w/ the weights. Last time I did some direct tricep work, my arms were fried and I couldn't do bench very well . . . pissed me off and reminded me why I don't bother w/ much tricep work. LoL

LoL @ getting DOMS from a car accident. LMAO!!!!!!

 

[stormin67]

So your saying If I only work a muscle once a week, I don't need to shock it once in awhile ?

 

[Protobuilder]

I think the question is whether "shocking" a muscle "once in a while" is better than a well thought out plan for long-term progression. Muscles adapt to new stressors. They also get sore as heck if they do something they're not used to. The question is whether putting them through something they're not used to will cause them to adapt and get stronger/bigger, or just get sore as hell. My guess is, just tossing in something once in a while to really toast them won't lead to much long-term adaptation. What WILL lead to long-term adaptation though is a plan--a program--that continues to apply new stress in a consistent, progressive fashion. Most people don't have this. They just hop and jump around from one thing to another . . . yes, they're sore a lot, but no, they probably aren't growing much in the long term.

 

[stormin67]

Gotcha ! Thank's for the explanation Proto. I totally agree with you. I do have a consistant program, and have for a long time. I was simply giving a suggestion for a muscle shock, that may renew some interest, ie. through a barrier.

 

[Madcow2]

A lot of people have used somewhat odd methods to break through plateaus. Nothing wrong with that. The point is, your training should be systematic and methodical not based on DOMS or some other fallacy, when you do employ a method like 100 rep of rest pause at 50% or 25 squats with with your 5RM or 20 rep squats or whatever - it should be properly timed, used for a specific purpose, and accounted for in programming (i.e. it should not be random).

 

[silver_shadow]

I hate to be the one to break it to you but I'd look at little more closely at the correlation between DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) and favorable hypertrophy/strength increase over time. More than anything DOMS is correlated to frequency of stimulus. You get very sore on that occasional 100 rep set, a new exercise, taking a long layoff and starting again, whiplash in a car accident is another good one. Most get reliably albeit mild to moderate soreness training an exercise at 1x per week frequency - increasing frequency to 2-3x per week will yield anything from zero DOMS to barely noticable after a brief acclimation period (and yet there is a lot of science and empirical evidence to back up this frequency as supperior for strength gains as well as hypertrophy - and when I say a lot that basically means everything).

DOMS is not so much about recovery but conditioning. The nervous system tends to be the limiting factor in the application of stimulus and overtraining rather than the muscle. I know that's probably not what you've been reading in bodybuilding magazines or seeing on BBing boards, but I can't control that and can only tell you that those sources more often than not are horrendously ignorant and totally reliant upon drugs to get gains out of very poor stimulus.

amen. no matter how much this is said, there will still be someone who will go ahead with those high rep sets done on a split.

 

[d-dub]

Care to give a more detailed breakdown?

No worries: Its not anything ground breaking, its just a modified conjugate setup. I choose a main excercise to kick my ass in first, then throw in some accessory stuff for about six reps.

I rotate my excercises about every 3 weeks, enough time to adjust improve and then move on. For load and deload I adjust number of sets attempted. In a loading week on a main excercise you might try 5x3, and then in a 'deload' week just back it of to 3x3 or similiar.

Eg:
Lower Strength:
Main Excercise: Good Mornings warmup then 5x3
Accessory stuff: pick two excercises- eg leg curl 3x6, partial dead 3x6
Other: Throw in some calves and abs.

I wont bore you with an upper layout.
My other day later in the week I just hit some higher rep work focusing on weakpoints. This is a session I dont like to leave feeling to hammered from using a high % of 1RM, which speeds recovery.

I am finding this motivating at the moment because it gives me the freedom to choose what I want to do as I go as far as main movements and accessory work - just work to the goal of the session. So if session goal is posterior chain strength, then I know I can choose partial deads, gms, romanaian deads, squats to meet to goal.

You might be asleep after reading that, but there you go.