Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Does anyone here NOT use HCG?

Nighthawkk

New member
I only used HCG once after a 12-weeker @ 1000iu E3D 2 weeks prior to pct and wasn't that impressed. I feel that I had a better recovery on nolv/clomid + herbals (post-cycle/unleashed) on a previous cycle. I'm sure if you have SEVERE atrophy I can see the importance of it, but does anyone here decide to not use the stuff on cycles less than 10 weeks in which atrophy isn't that bad? Guys here just make it seem like its such a priority that they forget about other important ancillaries post-cycle. Plus did they even have pregnyl back in the 60' s and 70's? Just curious to see what people think....
 
Longes cycle I have run for for 16 weeks of 500mg Test/EQ each. Did not use HCG and recovered after three weeks. Clomid works fine for me so I am sticking with that.
 
Nighthawkk said:
I only used HCG once after a 12-weeker @ 1000iu E3D 2 weeks prior to pct and wasn't that impressed. I feel that I had a better recovery on nolv/clomid + herbals (post-cycle/unleashed) on a previous cycle. I'm sure if you have SEVERE atrophy I can see the importance of it, but does anyone here decide to not use the stuff on cycles less than 10 weeks in which atrophy isn't that bad? Guys here just make it seem like its such a priority that they forget about other important ancillaries post-cycle. Plus did they even have pregnyl back in the 60' s and 70's? Just curious to see what people think....

wanna have kids?
 
detroitbodybuildertigers said:
wanna have kids?

Agreed. The HCG doesn't just restore your balls back to size. It restores your HPTA and kickstarts your natural test production. I can't see any reason why not to use it with every cycle you do, period.
 
When I approach recovery I like to apply every compound I can for absolute recovery. For me, this means hcg, nolv., clomid. These are all cheap and readily available. Hcg is the only one I think everyone can use without problems. Well, actually nolvadex too. Clomid is an individual decision with respects to the mental factor. Can you recover without hcg? Yes, but will adding hcg to any recovery do anything other than aid it? No. So we can debate HOW much hcg improved your recovery, but it does aid it and it may aid it more (or less) next cycle. With its cheap and available nature, why not cover all your bases? I'd love to see how much each lb. you gained per cycle costs and then compare the cost of maintaining those lbs against the cost of lbs lost. PCT, complete pct, pays.
 
HCG is awesome. Stimulates the junk to get back to size right away.
 
I have never used it. I respond well to low amounts of test, so only doing Nolvadex and tribulus. I recover just fine. I am also 21 too.
 
Nighthawkk said:
shit i wish they had controlled medical experiments for this sort of stuff....


I'm gonna bet that their are tons of studies regarding hcg stimulating properties. They're gonna be more related to kids, but the mode of action should be apparent. HCG works, the degree to which it works is gonna depend on how shutdown you are and the degree and duration of adminstration. I don't think whether it works is up for debate, just whether it is always necessary. While in some cases one can get by without it, it will never hurt recovery and is cheap and available.
 
idcbp said:
I'm gonna bet that their are tons of studies regarding hcg stimulating properties. They're gonna be more related to kids, but the mode of action should be apparent. HCG works, the degree to which it works is gonna depend on how shutdown you are and the degree and duration of adminstration. I don't think whether it works is up for debate, just whether it is always necessary. While in some cases one can get by without it, it will never hurt recovery and is cheap and available.


Maybe so. I don't find it to be all that cheap, but for the benefits I am sure it is well worth it. The argument like you mentioned is whether you need it or not, not whether it works because it does.
 
I don't use HCG. Used it once before, couldn't tell a difference. I recover remarkably quickly with just nolva, even the time I stayed on 8 months straight. No need for HCG for me.
 
I use hcg 2x weekly all the way through my cycles, as well as at the end before clomid, and have noticed a night and day difference with recovery, and I can also be confident that I am not doing any permanent damage. I also got my wife pregnant 3 months into a cycle that was 3 grams a week, no chance of that without hcg
 
hcg is signal that tells natty test to turn back on where as clomid blocks the "go" signal from being picked up so test is continually produced without being told to stop
what exactly does nolva do for pct?
 
Needsize, how much do yuo use? Also, I am going to run a 12 or 15 week test cycle only soon, was wondering when to start HCG and amount. Thanks.
 
brickbatstone said:
Longes cycle I have run for for 16 weeks of 500mg Test/EQ each. Did not use HCG and recovered after three weeks. Clomid works fine for me so I am sticking with that.
I have been posing the very same questions on my latest threads. Most seem to agree that HCG is a must since I will be starting a 500mg x wk Sustanon cycle, I also would rather use just Clomid, especially since I already have a bunch.
 
I just found this:

Substance: Chorionic gonadotropin

HCG is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is formed in the placenta immediately after nidation. It has luteinizing characteristics since it is quite similar to the luteinizing hormone LH in the anterior pituitary gland.During the first 6-8 weeks of a pregnancy the formed HCG allows for continued production of estrogens and gestagens in the yellow bodies (corpi luteum). Later on, the placenta itself produces these two hormones.

How it works

HCG is manufactured from the urine of pregnant women since it is exereted in unchanged form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. In women injectable HCG allows for owlation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. It also helps produce estrogens and yellow bodies. The fact that exogenous HCG has characteristics almost identical to those of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which, as mentioned, is produced in the hypophysis, makes HCG so very interesting for athletes. In a man the luteinizing hormone stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes; this in turn stimulates production of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone production.

HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. As mentioned, oral and injectable steroids cause a negative feedback after a certain level and duration of usage. A signal is sent to the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis since the steroids give the hypothalamus an incorrect signal. The hypothalamus, in turn, signals the hypophysis to reduce or stop the production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and of LH. Thus, the testosterone production decreases since the testosterone-producing Leydig's cells in the testes, due to decreased LH, are no longer sufficiently stimulated. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testosterone production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing steroid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass.

Administering HCG directly after steroid treatment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by megadoses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size).

Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. The reasons for this is clear. On the one hand, by taking HCG the athlete's own testosterone level immediately jumps up and, on the other hand, a large concentration of anabolic substances in the blood is induced by the steroids. Many bodybuilders, powerlifters, and weightlifters report a lower sex drive at the end of a difficult workout cycle, immediately before or after a competition, and especially toward the end of a steroid treatment. Athletes who have often taken steroids in the past usually accept this fact since they know that it is a temporary condition. Those, however who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular intervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.

Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG.

Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasmatestosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed.

Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.

Many bodybuilders, unfortunately, are still of the opinion that HCG helps them become harder while preparing for a competion by breaking down subcutaneous fat so that indentations and vascularity are better exposed. The HCG package insert states clearly that HCG has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution. HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction.

Dosages

Athlete should iniect one HCG ampule (5000 I.U.) every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds.

Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Anadrol, Sustanon , Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol), etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 I.U. per injection and should-as already mentioned-be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum. If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function.

Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go.

Side effects

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen.

Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an inereased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appearance.

Athletes who have already increased their endogenous testosterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat deposits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young athletes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG. HCG is also suitable as "over bridge" doping before a competition with doping controls.

HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Based on the low structural stability of this compress it can easily fall apart, thus giving the impression of a reduced volume. This is, however, insignificant since there is neither a loss in effect nor a loss of substance.

Each package, for each HCG ampule, includes another ampule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liquid, after both ampules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intramuscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25° C. HCG is a relatively expensive compound. Pregnyl costs approx.$36 -45 for 3 ampules of 5000 I.U. each and the relative solution ampules. The other compounds have a similar price and are $12 -15 for 5000 I.U.

Any thoughts? :D
 
The article says 5000iu every 5 days??? Thats insane, I thought 500iu daily spread out over the 10 days is a better option. Only problem I had last time is making the powder into a dose that you could actually measure out. I forget, but was it bacteriostatic water you need to mix the powder in to make larger amounts than what the pregnyl set gives you?
 
Nighthawkk said:
The article says 5000iu every 5 days??? Thats insane, I thought 500iu daily spread out over the 10 days is a better option. Only problem I had last time is making the powder into a dose that you could actually measure out. I forget, but was it bacteriostatic water you need to mix the powder in to make larger amounts than what the pregnyl set gives you?


it is 500iu, any doc that knows anything about this stuff will confirm that
 
needsize said:
it is 500iu, any doc that knows anything about this stuff will confirm that
On my threads many people here have said to take 1000iu to 1500iu per week, and yes 5000iu pw seems rediculous to me too, but I didn't write the article.
 
stucazz said:
On my threads many people here have said to take 1000iu to 1500iu per week, and yes 5000iu pw seems rediculous to me too, but I didn't write the article.

I've been using it at 500iu 2x weekly for 2 years now, whenever I am "on", which is pretty much all the time now. Not only has it worked incredibly well for recovery, but I also got my wife pregnant after being on 3 grams a week for 4 months. Going above that amount can result in all kinds of nasty and permanent sides
 
needsize said:
I've been using it at 500iu 2x weekly for 2 years now, whenever I am "on", which is pretty much all the time now. Not only has it worked incredibly well for recovery, but I also got my wife pregnant after being on 3 grams a week for 4 months. Going above that amount can result in all kinds of nasty and permanent sides
Right then, 500iu's two x per wk equals 1000. If you read closely I said 1000 to 1500 x week not each time.
 
I have not used it regularly in the past but I am doing so this year since i'll be on much more.
 
Nighthawkk said:
I only used HCG once after a 12-weeker @ 1000iu E3D 2 weeks prior to pct and wasn't that impressed. I feel that I had a better recovery on nolv/clomid + herbals (post-cycle/unleashed) on a previous cycle. I'm sure if you have SEVERE atrophy I can see the importance of it, but does anyone here decide to not use the stuff on cycles less than 10 weeks in which atrophy isn't that bad? Guys here just make it seem like its such a priority that they forget about other important ancillaries post-cycle. Plus did they even have pregnyl back in the 60' s and 70's? Just curious to see what people think....


you would have had a much better recovery if you had timed the hcg better. you used it while you still had a lot of aas in your system. that doesnt work, you can run it like that to get them back to size, but you have to run nolva and/or clomid with it. if you had used it 2 weeks AFTER your last shot, when your system is almost totally clear of any drugs, you would have recovered much better. Should still use nolva with this method though.
 
DaveTSI said:
you would have had a much better recovery if you had timed the hcg better. you used it while you still had a lot of aas in your system. that doesnt work, you can run it like that to get them back to size, but you have to run nolva and/or clomid with it. if you had used it 2 weeks AFTER your last shot, when your system is almost totally clear of any drugs, you would have recovered much better. Should still use nolva with this method though.

You're probably right, next time if I suffer atrophy I will run it when the AAS is clearing my system. Couldn't hurt to run a little mid-cycle either I guess
 
Top Bottom