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Ding Dong, Tookie's dead!

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SAN QUENTIN, California (CNN) -- Stanley Tookie Williams -- the co-founder of the violent Crips street gang who became an anti-gang crusader while on death-row -- died by lethal injection early Tuesday for the 1979 killings of four people in two Los Angles robberies.

Terry Thornton, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, said the unofficial time of death was 12:35 a.m. (3:35 a.m. ET).

Williams, 51, while acknowledging he had a violent past, had maintained he was innocent in the slayings.

It marked the second execution in California this year, and just the 12th since the death penalty was reinstated in the 1970s.

Williams' case set off intense debates over the death penalty and redemption, with celebrities, activists and anti-death penalty advocates saying his initiatives and anti-gang message from behind bars had proven his life was worth saving. He had even been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize in Literature by an array of college professors, a Swiss lawmaker and others.

His execution went ahead as scheduled after the U.S. Supreme Court late Monday rejected a last-ditch appeal.

The high court's ruling followed California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's decision to deny clemency for Williams.

"Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second-guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' convictions and death sentence," Schwarzenegger said in a five-page statement explaining his decision.

Before Williams went to the execution chamber, the stepmother of one of the men Williams was convicted of killing said she felt "justice is going to be done tonight."

"I had faith that when Governor Arnold looked at the facts of the case that he was going to decide not to do clemency," said Lora Owens, whose stepson, Albert Owens, was shot to death in a convenience store holdup. "I don't like it being said it's a political decision. It was an evidence decision."

Williams had maintained his innocence since his arrest and conviction in the brutal 1979 slayings. He had denounced gang violence and written children's books with an anti-gang message, donating the proceeds to anti-gang community groups.

As Williams was being moved to a holding cell next to the death chamber Monday evening, his lead attorney, John Harris, had said the convict was "at peace."

His lawyers late Monday filed another request for clemency from Schwarzenegger, citing the statements of three new witnesses Harris said could provide exculpatory evidence. That request was also denied.

Protesters for and against the death penalty gathered outside the gates of San Quentin early Monday evening.

Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, who visited with Williams, said Schwarzenegger decided "to choose revenge over redemption and to use Tookie Williams as a trophy in the flawed system."

"To kill him is a way of making politicians look tough," Jackson said. "It does not make it right. It does not make any of us safer. It does not make any of us more secure."

And Sister Helen Prejean, a Roman Catholic nun and a prominent death penalty opponent, compared the death penalty to "gang justice."

"Gang justice is, if you kill a member of our gang, we kill you -- and don't tell me anything about how you changed your life or what you're going to do," she said. "You kill, and we kill you. And that's what the United States of America is doing with this."

But Schwarzenegger questioned the sincerity of Williams' conversion to nonviolence.

"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings there can be no redemption."

He added: "In this case, the one thing that would be the clearest indication of complete remorse and full redemption is the one thing Williams will not do."

Williams was sentenced to death in 1981 in the killing of Owens, a 26-year-old Los Angeles convenience store clerk, in February 1979. The clerk was shot twice in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun while face-down on the floor.

Less than two weeks later, jurors concluded, Williams killed an immigrant Chinese couple and their 41-year-old daughter while stealing less than $100 in cash from their motel. Part of the daughter's head was blown off in the shooting.

Robert Martin, one of the prosecutors who sent Williams to prison, said the courts "have scrutinized this from every angle and they've found that the evidence is rock solid." He questioned whether there was any moral equivalence "between co-authoring some children's books and the senseless murder of four people in cold blood."

"The books will live on," Martin told CNN. "We have many authors who have died, and their books are still in print. And if they have any good effect, that can continue. So I don't believe that that is a conclusive argument."

Williams' lawyers went to the Supreme Court after the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected an affidavit that suggested the one-time gang leader was framed for the four killings.

Gordon Bradbury von Ellerman, a jail trusty who had been held with Williams in the Los Angeles County Jail from 1979 to 1980, stated he was the cellmate of another trusty, identified as George "Roger" Oglesby. Von Ellerman states that Los Angeles Sheriff's Department personnel provided Oglesby with documents to aid him in testifying against Williams in return for reduced or dropped charges.

"I was personally aware that Los Angeles Sheriff's Department personnel would often provide information to these inmates so that they could help frame defendants for crimes," he said in the statement.

The San Francisco-based 9th Circuit rejected that petition Monday afternoon, arguing that Williams and his lawyers failed to present enough evidence of innocence to block the execution.

For me, I have serious doubts about the death penalty and the way its administered. Especially since dozens of people have been proven to be innocent after DNA science cleared the way.
Still, even though DNA proved their innocence, the prosecutor often would still state the person was guilty and argue that when clearly that was not the case, even examples of them blocking the testing.

Surely the death penalty use has killed innocent men and the foundation of the legal system is based on many guilty go free so that no innocent man be hung.

With this case however, the evidence appears to be rock solid, and cmon, he founded the Crips gang. An organization responsible for thousands of murders and bringing misery to many people. That alone I think he should have been shot as an enemy of the state as well as everyone who has a gang tatoo pledging allegiance to murderous organizations.
Just shoot them on the spot.

I was a kid when the movie Colors came out. Everyone wanted to be a crip or a blood after that, fuck that shit was annoying to be killed.

So, my view is, Im glad this bastard is dead, its what the death penalty was for given what he did, same with people like Tim McVeigh(blue-a-peter) but really, I dont think the death penalty should be used b/c of its abuse and Tookie's life may well should have been spared, maybe not.
But, Im glad I dont have to make decisions like that.

I'd prolly say no death penalty publically but give a secret order to have him executed by inmates for extra commissary (chips, cigarettes and soup)
 
BrothaBill said:
Surely the death penalty use has killed innocent men and the foundation of the legal system is based on many guilty go free so that no innocent man be hung.

With this case however, the evidence appears to be rock solid, and cmon, he founded the Crips gang. An organization responsible for thousands of murders and bringing misery to many people. That alone I think he should have been shot as an enemy of the state as well as everyone who has a gang tatoo pledging allegiance to murderous organizations. Just shoot them on the spot.
Not to mention all the injuries, rapes, intimidation, drugs, etc.


BrothaBill said:
I'd prolly say no death penalty publically but give a secret order to have him executed by inmates for extra commissary (chips, cigarettes and soup)
Works for me. should be very sure. 2 secret trials, in different locations. No names, only evidence.
 
pintoca said:
Brotha, how does the lethal injection work?

Well my understanding without googling it, is that three chemicals are injected.
The first one is a sedative and has them fall unconscious just like what happens just prior to surgery, the second drug is potassium which is lethal and easy way to stop the heart, the third drug I believe paralyzes the respiratory system.
The person just goes to sleep, then the heart is stopped with K+ and that cuts off blood supply to the brain due to lack of blood flow.
Hypoxia occurs in the brain, waste products build up, the brain tissue becomes ischemic and dies rather quickly.
Without the first sedative, unconscious after the heart stopping happens in about fifteen seconds.
I was in a cath lab and the guys heart stopped on the table, I grabbed the paddles and he was like hey, what are you doing with those, lol, I froze like a fox caught in a henhouse, lol, then his eyes rolled back and he went unconscious and I shocked his heart back into a normal rhythm. Pretty funny.


And I should mention, that just after the brain knows its dying, DMT is released by the brain and illusion of time disappears and he enters the mythic realm and time stops before his death his/her reality in this universe. His consciousness just jumps to an alternate reality where he lives on since there is no such thing as death
 
BrothaBill said:
And I should mention, that just after the brain knows its dying, DMT is released by the brain and illusion of time disappears and he enters the mythic realm and time stops before his death his/her reality in this universe. His consciousness just jumps to an alternate reality where he lives on since there is no such thing as death

You had to go BrothaBill on me, didn't you? Do they still use the system where three syringes are used by three different people (all going trhough an IV) and none of them knows which one pushing the lethal drug?
 
pintoca said:
You had to go BrothaBill on me, didn't you? Do they still use the system where three syringes are used by three different people (all going trhough an IV) and none of them knows which one pushing the lethal drug?

lol, here's a sample chapter of the book of the medical research upon recreating DMT release in the brain at deathDMT sample chapter . THe aliens are real!!

But to your question, I know what you are asking, I believe that in firing squads it was stated that some had blanks so that know one knew if they fired and killed someone.
The lethal injection protocol would obviously be different, its a machine where the drugs are released in order.
Who activates is a matter of location and protocol and I dont know the answer. Someone throws the switch or button, not sure if its uniform.
 
My reservation is that an elected representative had any part in this process. At what stage did this finely chiselled actor (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) become a bastion of moral fortitude appropriate to making cold life-and-death decisions on another person without vested political interest.

Each state should have an appointed death squad rather than it's being part of the national popularity contest. K to Arnold, anyway
 
The death penalty, as a societal deterent, doesn't work and is a waste of time and a drain of resources. It's cheaper to warehouse a murderer for life and to put them to productive ends for the state.
 
blut wump said:
My reservation is that an elected representative had any part in this process. At what stage did this finely chiselled actor (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) become a bastion of moral fortitude appropriate to making cold life-and-death decisions on another person without vested political interest.

Each state should have an appointed death squad rather than it's being part of the national popularity contest. K to Arnold, anyway


I like you Blut Wump, Ill kill you last.

K hit if you know what movie thats from
 
pintoca said:
Commando

and then he goes... "remember how I said I'd kill you last? I lied"

It wouldve been cool if he said to Tookie Ill grant you clemency and then busted out, remember Tookie how I said I'd grant you clemency? "I lied"
 
milo hobgoblin said:
I woke up. the bords were singing, traffic was good and my heart was warm

That FUCKER IS DEAD.

Good fucking riddance.


once again, you and I agree.
I hope he choked on his last meal.
 
stilleto said:
once again, you and I agree.
I hope he choked on his last meal.

You think it was chitlins, corn bread and a Colt 45?



- in other news I just ran three miles.
 
WODIN said:
The death penalty, as a societal deterent, doesn't work and is a waste of time and a drain of resources. It's cheaper to warehouse a murderer for life and to put them to productive ends for the state.

Because you made it expensive. When we had death penalty in Canada, it sued to be pretty quick process. Sentenced, then appeal, then Supreme Court. At most 2 years. Of course your process is not cheaper. You have murderers rotting 20 years in jail before the D-day...
 
BrothaBill said:
For me, I have serious doubts about the death penalty and the way its administered. Especially since dozens of people have been proven to be innocent after DNA science cleared the way.

The death penalty needs to be administered swiftly to those where there is 100% conclusive evidence. Like the last two pedophiles who raped and murdered the two girls in Florida. Just kill them....kill them now.

Wipe out the assnozzles and clear the courts allowing more time to focus on the cases in doubt. Part of the problem is the lack of time the courts have.

There are honest appeals that need to be heard. Free up court time by ending those where there is 100% proof.
 
blut wump said:
My reservation is that an elected representative had any part in this process. At what stage did this finely chiselled actor (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) become a bastion of moral fortitude appropriate to making cold life-and-death decisions on another person without vested political interest.

Each state should have an appointed death squad rather than it's being part of the national popularity contest. K to Arnold, anyway

Clemency isn't really a legal process, just that the Governors can issue Stays and Pardons. A Stay or a Pardon is almost always political and I would much rather this stay in the Courts. So, I agree with you.

Tookie Wiliams was convicted and sentenced to death by a jury of his peers. He never apologized to the victims and bragged about his status while in prison. He's a social reprobate that could never be truly rehabilitated.

I consider 25 years on Death Row to be "cruel and unusual" punishment. If the Death Penalty is going to be used, do so in a timely manner.
 
stilleto said:
yeah, thats it.

- were you running from the cops?

(and before anyone jumps on me, DT knows i'm so joking.)

The whole time I expected a pig to roll up on me any second. Why else would a black man be running around a neighborhood of million dollar homes at 5:30AM unless he's stealin somethin or peepin in windows (I did glance in the direction of one).


(yea, I know you are....bitch.)
 
saw that on the 10 oclock news last night...a lot of people said he has changed and should have stayed alive.....
 
manny78 said:
Because you made it expensive. When we had death penalty in Canada, it sued to be pretty quick process. Sentenced, then appeal, then Supreme Court. At most 2 years. Of course your process is not cheaper. You have murderers rotting 20 years in jail before the D-day...

Depends on the state. He would not have sat around in a cell for 25 years in Texas or Virginia.
 
WODIN said:
The death penalty, as a societal deterent, doesn't work and is a waste of time and a drain of resources. It's cheaper to warehouse a murderer for life and to put them to productive ends for the state.
the problem with our Death Penalty is that we let these people sit for 20+ years to await their fate in our system....it is completely in efficient.
 
SAN QUENTIN, Calif. — FOX News correspondent Adam Housley was one of 39 people who witnessed the Tuesday morning execution of Stanley Tookie Williams.

Williams was convicted in 1981 for gunning down convenience store clerk Albert Owens, 26, at a 7-Eleven in Whittier, Calif., and killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, as well as the couple's daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at the Los Angeles motel they owned. Williams claimed he was innocent, but witnesses at the trial said he boasted about the killings, saying, "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him."

This is Housley's report of Tookie Williams' last minutes:

I have seen death before, but never actually witnessed a last breath. Tonight that changed.

Tonight I saw the deep breaths of nervousness, the breaths of annoyance when an IV couldn't be inserted easily ... and the last quick breaths of air as a man's chest went still. This man wasn't a friend, a member of my family, or even an acquaintance. This man was convicted of brutally murdering four innocent people and later bragging about how he watched their last breaths. Tonight I saw his.
The timeline is actually long and detailed. I have shortened it, without detracting from the important facts or feelings. The most captivating: the moment when 39 men and women walk into a light tan room and gaze through protected glass as this convicted killer, Stanley Tookie Williams, is brought in, strapped down and put to death.

The timeline goes like this, from 12:29 p.m. Monday in California until 2:57 a.m. Tuesday.

Monday, Dec. 12: Preparing to Witness Death

12:29 p.m. I have been picked as a witness to the Williams execution. We all await the governor's decision. Clemency from Arnold Schwarzenegger is really the last hope for Williams and those who say he should live. It is at this time that I get the tip — clemency is denied, and I call the word in to our crews.

12:31 p.m. The drive to San Quentin Prison begins. I arrive at the location outside the prison's east gate a short time later. News crews line the road, and some protesters have arrived. In the background, I see San Pablo Bay and the Richmond San Rafael Bridge. This location is beautiful; the men who are housed here are not.

6:30 p.m. At this point, we leave for the west gate of San Quentin. It is here the witnesses and media crews will gather. Satellite trucks are lined up; I am sitting in ours waiting for the officers to wave us into the outer range of the prison.

7:04 p.m. We get clearance and we drive through the first gate of San Quentin. Our truck is searched; we are patted down and then issued a pass depending on our clearance. Our satellite truck operators get blue media passes and I receive a gold badge, which signifies a witness to the execution. We then are escorted on a short drive to a location outside the San Quentin Prison main wall, but just in front of the main building.

9 p.m. Our first briefing inside the prison. We're told that Williams has refused most of his rights. He requested no last meal, is watching little television and spends most of his time on the phone. He had six visitors, he spoke with each individually and then all of them together at the end of his meetings. The convicted killer also received a bundle of 50 letters, all spiritual in nature.

9:14 p.m. The 17 media witnesses are separated from the rest of the media mass. We are escorted into a small room, then out a side door into a shuttle. Our trip is very short, maybe 100 yards or so. We go through yet another gate, this time we stop at the historical main building. Here we receive a quick briefing about grief or psychological effects we might feel after watching an execution. The talk is short, to the point and understood. We then return, via shuttle, back through the gate and join the rest of the media.

11 p.m. I am now removing all my personal effects. Inside the viewing room I will be allowed only the clothes I am wearing and a watch. Off comes all jewelry; no money, no wallet, not even a receipt in my pocket is allowed. A pencil and sheets of paper will be provided once we get inside the main prison fence line. I give my outer coat and effects to my producer and prepare to load into the shuttle.

11:14 p.m. I am escorted onto the shuttle along with 16 other media witnesses.

We are taken to the employee lounge, which is inside the main gate of San Quentin, but just outside of the east block, which is death row. Here we are patted down and each witness is assigned a prison guard escort.

11:52 p.m. Ten prison officers form a makeshift wall that lines our path from the lounge area, perpendicular across a small road and into the death chamber viewing area.

11:53 p.m. I watch as the other witnesses enter the death chamber viewing area; we are guided into the room right behind them.

11:54 p.m. We enter the death chamber witness room, which I am told is called the execution chamber witness gallery. The exterior door is similar to what you see on a warship, or some cruise liners. It is heavy, metal, and large rivets are visible. There is also a cell door that has been opened. The room itself is small, tan and has 20-foot ceilings. We are escorted to the east wall and are asked to stand on two risers, similar to ones used by church choirs. Everything is tan, except the chamber. It protrudes like half of a giant octagon into our narrow rectangular room. The execution chamber is all green. On the outside, on the inside and even the table and its pads -- all green. There is a tan railing about a foot from the thick glass; it curves around the chamber. The setup reminds me of being at an aquarium. The execution chamber looks like a tank and is obviously airtight. The room is dim and there are about 12 people sitting in folding chairs that line the railing. The media is on risers on the east wall, official witnesses on risers on the south wall and Tookie Williams' chosen witnesses (he is allowed 5) are on risers on the west wall.

11:58 p.m. Five prison officers escort the prisoner into the room. Williams appears older than the pictures, his hair is speckled gray and cut short. He wears wire-rimmed glasses and a light blue short-sleeve shirt. His pants are dark blue and he wears white socks. He is chained around his waist, and that chain is attached to handcuffs. He shows no fight as officers lay him down on the green padded doctor's table. He is strapped across the ankles with large black straps. His chest is large and expands and contracts deeply and rapidly; it appears he is nervous. Outside I can hear helicopters faintly; they have circled San Quentin for several hours, providing security.

Tuesday, Dec. 13: Execution Day

12:01a.m. Williams has a short gray speckled beard. He raises his head a bit as prison officers fix more large black straps across his knees. His arms are secured next and he turns his head to the left. From that vantage he can see his five allowed witnesses — two lawyers, three friends. They exchange glances and nods and he mouths words to them that we cannot see. At this point, the convict is strapped at the waist and a shoulder harness is attached. Cables from the heart monitor can be seen running from under his shirt into the chamber's back area and into a heart monitor machine.

12:03 a.m. The officers finish the securing of Williams, the handcuffs and chains are removed in favor of the straps. All prison personnel inside the chamber now wear surgical gloves. Up until now, we have seen only men in the room with Williams, but the officer who enters with the medical supplies is a woman. She quickly inserts an IV into the convict's right arm.

I still hear helicopters outside and the room is eerily quiet. We were warned that no talking, loud sobbing, or outbursts would be allowed. The only sound besides the distant helicopters comes from pencils writing feverishly onto lined paper, reporters making every effort to get every detail as the execution process and protocol continues just 8 feet or so from where I am standing.

In the room, all witnesses are fixated on the process behind the glass. The metal strips that separate the panes still remind me of being at an aquarium, or inside a submarine. As Williams continues to mouth words to his witnesses, his attorney begins to sway nervously. He looks down at the ground; he and Williams will eventually make eye contact and nod at each other.

12:08 a.m. There seems to be some problem finding a good vein and attaching the second IV to Williams' left arm. As the prison officers struggle with the IV, Williams raises his head fully for the first time. He is strapped down tightly. He appears to look over his body and assess his predicament. He sighs and puts his head back down.

12:10 a.m. After surveying the room with the head movement he is allowed, Williams turns his head to his right. He stares at the media. It is a long look and one that attempts to pierce our being in the room. There is no mistaking, even as this man awaits death, he is attempting to be in control, he wants to intimidate. He stops after about 10 seconds or so. His breathing is still deep and nervously quick. His massive chest continues to fluctuate distinctly.

12:14 a.m. As the work continues to find a vein in Williams' left arm (the process took about 12 minutes), he sighs and then leans his head up and says disgustingly, "still can't find it." The female officer rises up, she is sweating, and with the back of her wrist she wipes her brow. You can tell the stress is building and it is beginning to penetrate the glass and envelop many in the room.

12:17 a.m. The IV process is finally finished. The room is now getting heavy, the air thick and warming. Two officers now take rolls of adhesive tape and tape the convict's wrists, hands and fingers. Williams now looks like he has two casts on his hands, it is obvious we will see no movement when he is put to death. Williams continues to look left and continues to mouth words to his supporters.

12:19 a.m. Now that the body has been prepared, the table is unhooked and swung around. No longer are we looking at Williams' right side, we now see the top of his head. There is no sweat and he continues to breathe deeply. Williams once again looks over his predicament, he now has to strain to see his supporters. His attorney smiles and nods his head. Williams wiggles his toes inside his white socks.

12:21 a.m. A small metal round hole opens in the vault-like door that separates the execution chamber from the viewing room. A paper is handed through that is read by an officer inside our viewing room. Her words echo through the chamber. The announcement ends with, "Stanley Williams has been found guilty of first degree murder and special circumstances … the execution shall now proceed."

12:22 a.m. Williams looks around one last time and nods his head toward his five witnesses/supporters. One woman covers her face.

12:24 a.m. The first drug is administered into the IV, followed by two more. Williams gulps several times. He appears to pass out as his deep quick breaths become shorter. They become quicker and shorter by the second. His large chest begins to move slower and his toes no longer move, his head no longer strains or moves.

12:25 a.m. The room is still silent. Pencils work furiously. People strain to see any movement by Williams. Witnesses shift nervously and his lawyer looks away. The convict is still.

12:34 a.m. The witness room seems to be getting smaller. People shift from one leg to another. We still hear the helicopters and the pencils and we also hear talking inside the airtight execution chamber. We cannot discern what is being said, we believe it is the attending doctor confirming the inmate has now been put to death.

12:36 a.m. The small hole in the door is opened again and another note is passed through to a guard. Her words once again echo through this stale environment. She says in part, "May I have your attention please, Warden Steve Ornoski declares inmate Stanley Williams dead." Pronounced dead at 12:35 a.m. by the attending physician. The room is now still. The pencils have stopped, the helicopters cannot be heard, and a few of the victim's family members have begun to quietly cry.

12:37 a.m. The lifeless body strapped is still strapped to the table. There are no officers in the room, he is alone and the subject of stares. Two officers now undo two sets of curtains that are pale tan and similar to shower curtains. They slide them around the semicircle rods and separate the dead inmate from our room. The first to be led out are the Williams supporters. His two legal counsels leave without incident or comment. The same cannot be said for the three others. Two women and one man in chorus yell, "The State of California has murdered an innocent man." Their words catch the room by surprise and a family member of one of the victims is consoled. She is Laura Owens, the stepmother of Albert Owens, who was shot twice in the back by Williams. Owens' last breath was touted by the killer to his friends. Now Williams' last breath has been witnessed by 39 people who will tell of this experience to the world.

12:38 a.m. We file out of the room, meet again with our assigned guards and are escorted back onto the shuttle. We then are taken back to the media staging area inside the outer prison wall. There we give a press conference and recount our thoughts and experiences.

My closing thoughts are simple: I was nervous at first, unsure what to expect. I now understand this process is choreographed down to the number of surgical gloves in the execution chamber. The lethal injection execution is clinical, it is sterile and in the minds of a great majority of California voters, it is a just process. I leave with an understanding and with an experience I will never forget. My thoughts as I sit here outside the damp cold gates of San Quentin are with the victims and the incredible hurt their families have endured and will endure throughout their lifetimes. Stanley Tookie Williams has paid the ultimate price. And as the governor stated, he never seemed to show any remorse.
 
fucking media circus....who gives a shit about a FOX news correspondent detailed eye witness account.**** not toward you Lestat***- just in general.
 
redguru said:
Clemency isn't really a legal process, just that the Governors can issue Stays and Pardons. A Stay or a Pardon is almost always political and I would much rather this stay in the Courts. So, I agree with you.

Tookie Wiliams was convicted and sentenced to death by a jury of his peers. He never apologized to the victims and bragged about his status while in prison. He's a social reprobate that could never be truly rehabilitated.

I consider 25 years on Death Row to be "cruel and unusual" punishment. If the Death Penalty is going to be used, do so in a timely manner.
I'm obliged to agree with you, too. 25 years sitting on the chopping block is an inhumane cruelty both for the adjudged and for kin to the victims.
 
PBR said:
fucking media circus....who gives a shit about a FOX news correspondent detailed eye witness account.**** not toward you Lestat***- just in general.

I agree, he should've died without fanfare.
 
WODIN said:
The death penalty, as a societal deterent, doesn't work and is a waste of time and a drain of resources. It's cheaper to warehouse a murderer for life and to put them to productive ends for the state.


I agree. As long as the work done produces something useful
 
blut wump said:
My reservation is that an elected representative had any part in this process. At what stage did this finely chiselled actor (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) become a bastion of moral fortitude appropriate to making cold life-and-death decisions on another person without vested political interest.

Each state should have an appointed death squad rather than it's being part of the national popularity contest. K to Arnold, anyway

The US does not expect its leaders to be bastions of moral fortitude. We prefer the rule of law to legislated morality.
 
I think kids in juvenile detention and first time felons should be forced to watch executions.
 
manny78 said:
Because you made it expensive. When we had death penalty in Canada, it sued to be pretty quick process. Sentenced, then appeal, then Supreme Court. At most 2 years. Of course your process is not cheaper. You have murderers rotting 20 years in jail before the D-day...
I did?

You made a bungled mess by executing the wrong people creating this situation in the first place!

HA!

Quid pro quo.
 
Dial_tone said:
I think kids in juvenile detention and first time felons should be forced to watch executions.
Before the turn of the 20th century families use to have picnics to go out and watch the hangings. Edwardian culture at its finest.
 
WODIN said:
I did?

You made a bungled mess by executing the wrong people creating this situation in the first place!

HA!

Quid pro quo.

Dont blame the death penalty, just blame the system. Errors are not only made with death sentence but also with folks sentenced for life. The system should be cleaned up that's a fact, but there's still people who deserve to die.
 
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