Diets Are Bullshit

[Nelson Montana]

Hello all,
I noticed a thread a while back discussing the promotion that George had done on the book "The Bodybuilding Truth: Secrets You're Not Supposed To Know." (EliteFitness Home Page) In essence, the message is; "your diet will not alter bodyshape beyond a gain or loss in weight."

I must reiterate, this does not mean ANY diet of ANY food. But once the requirements of adequate protein, fat, and carbs are met -- you're done. No amount of food combining or fancy manipulation of nutrients will change the way you look one iota.

Now bear something in mind. I have nothing to gain by saying that you don't need to do something or buy something. But I know education is a hard sell. I also know that it's tough to think you've spent so much time learning about a topic only to be told it's worthless information. But it is.

I can hear the outrage already. There's sure to be aspersions on me and my credentials. Well, before you start, let me tell you that I have dealt with some of the major players in bodybuilding for more years than most people on this board have probably been alive. I talk to the pros -- not at some clinic, but one on one in personal conversation. They laugh at all this stuff about food combining and timing. I've also worked for a supplement company. The marketers don't take the crap they sell. (But they do take a lot of primobolan.) I've been in contact with just about every scientist and pseudo scientist in the field. It's a scam folks. A huge multi-billion dollar scam.

I won't address everything that was said to dispute my findings on the last thread other than to say much of it was misinterpreted or misunderstood. I touch upon all of it in "The Bodybuilding Truth."

I hate to be the one to burst the bubble. But the quicker you get wise to the truth, the better off you'll be. Eating for maximum muscle is easy, if you know how.

Stay Strong,
Nelson

 

[nclifter6feet6]

ok so hook me up with the [email protected] or just post it here on your breakthrough eating or whatever. tell me "the bodybuilding truth" how do i eat for maximum muscle. im natural so do this apply to non roiders

 

[Greek Freak]

you can belive whatever you want...but try it, and compare yourself to someone who eats clean.

 

[Elite_Fry]

me also please
[email protected]

 

[Nelson Montana]

Greek Freak

Why didn't I think of that? I guess after 30 years in bodybuilding "eating clean" never occurred to me.

I don't know where that "Amateur Bodybuilder" title came from under my name. (It's my first time on the board.)

Re-read the post.

 

[PwB]

If this is really Nelson, then he's only posting here to sell his new book. He's not going to give you all the details for free. Besides, anyone who still wastes their time getting their information from shitty bodybuilding magazines (supplement ad books) really should wake up and realize it mostly BS w/ a lot of ghostwriting. Sorry, but I wouldn't take advice from a high school drop-out. He's actually a musician that got a break once he got a break from TC. He used to write for Testosterone.net but TC got tired of his BS and big ego, so they kicked him off. Then he turns his back on them saying that they suck and he left b/c he refused to endorse some supplement (ZMA)and got shit for it, that even other writers on the site admit it is bogus. He's turned his back on many people once things don't go his way, just check out the message boards over at t-mag. He writes some articles for other muscle magazines and recently wrote one on how much ketogenic diets suck, basically a personal attack on Lyle McDonald since he doesn't look like a bodybuilder. Nelson also has taken steroids, had ab etching done, so he's even less qualified, oh yeah, and he's a high school drop out, did I mention that already, and a musician.
One things for sure, I know it's total bullshit to listen to what any pro or top level competetive bodybuilders eat since they're all on steroids, GH and various other drugs. They can get away with a lot of stupid shit and b/c of their genetics and drugs, will still look great. Flex Wheeler used to cut out soda and fries a few weeks before competition, pretty much the only changes in his diet, and win shows. I know of a top level competetor that lives on cheeseburgers and fries year round, big deal, if a natural lifter eats like that then they won't optimize their potential. Yeah, food combining is bogus, and people get too detailed in their diets, overall, most diets will work once protein and EFA's needs are met, and calories are adjusted, but it doesn't mean strict dieting is a waste of time.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Nice post PwB.

 

[nclifter6feet6]

i totally agree. all this meal timing and bullshit like that is crap all these questions whats the best protien to take before bed whats the best post worktout all this buuuuuuuullllllshit, calories are calories pretty much. if you wanna deit, just eat enough protien and go low on everything else if you want to bulk eat enough protien and go high on carbs and fats

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hi PwB,
If I may, I'd like to address your points.

I'm curious how you know about the details over at testosterone? I was there. Were you? Or are you going by what TC said? If so, why not stock up on Methoxy 7 and Myostat? TC says he's put on more muscle than ever with it.

At one time, TC claimed that Charles Poliquin was the leading authority on bodybuilding. He then went on to bad mouth him. Charles and I were fired the same week.

I'm not sure why being a musician makes me unqualified to write about bodybuilding, or must working out be the only thing in someone's life? If so, that's pretty sad.

True, a high school drop out by my own admission but with an above average IQ. (I hate talking about this because it sounds like I'm blowing my own horn so let's leave it at that.)

I never attacked Lyle McDonald, just his opinions. The ketogenc diet will cause catabolism, fatigue, depletion of nutrients to the brain, build up of ammonia in the bloodstream, stress to the liver and kidneys and possible damage to the thyroid gland. I address this in the book. I will admit, Lyle is a bit of a bully and I don't like bullies. He's also a hypocrite because he doesn't follow his own advice. Then again, I don't know anyone who can maintain ketosis for too long and live to tell about it.

I admit I have taken moderate doses of steroids in the past. I never claimed otherwise.

I had the ab-etching done as part of an assignment. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't.

You mention that people should check the message boards at T-net but I'm not sure why. That board will not allow any information that isn't to the owners liking to go through. There is no way to rebute what is said. The participants are gullible kids who believe the people who run that site are forthright. Again, I explain this in the book. You wouldn't believe some of the things that go on.

Finally you admit ZMA is bogus and you essentially agree with my opinions on diet so I can only believe that you have something personally against me for reasons which I cannot know, but I'd be willing to address reasonable questions from you and any of the readers of this board. Hope this informaton helped.

Sincerely,
Nelson

 

[PwB]

I don't know you personally and I don't have anything against you personally. Just that you post for the 1st time on this board and happen to have just come out w/ a book at the same time. It seems coincidental, then try to mention the book in passing w/out trying to make it seem like too much of a sales pitch.

I was going by what Chris Shugart said as well as a few others. Of course theres always 3 sides to a story, their side, your side, and the truth. And no, i'm not a T-mag fanatic. Its just one source of information, and I leave it at that. They're a supplement company trying to make sales just like the rest, but they also do provide a free service w/ some useful information. And I'll be the 1st to admit most of their supps. are way overhyped and couldnt possible do what they claim, and ever since the Myostat release, I've lost quite a bit of faith as the research clearly shows that it would have zero use once a person reaches full maturity, and the research was based during developmental stages.

I don't recall TC ever badmouthing Poliquin, if anything he said that it was time for him to move on, but still regards him as one of the leading authorities. What he and T-mag DID do was not bash Poliquin (which would be absurd, at least they didn't online in the mag to the public) BUT, tried to promote Ian King as his equal once they got a hold of him writing for T-mag. And recently did he did the same for Don Alessi, claiming him to be the next Poliquin (which would only praise poliquin, not bash him), but again, this is just to promote thier magazine.

How can you attack Lyle's opinion on Ketogenic diets when he'll be the 1st to admit they ARE NOT the end all, be all diet for getting results. He always says they're just a tool, one of many, some people get good results, others get terrible results on them. He never hypes the diet online or in his book, and he gets into the benefits as well as negative effects of the diet as well. You say the diet will cause catabolism, well any hypocaloric diet is technically catabolic. I'm sure you mean catabolic to muscle, for some, true, but for many, the reason they use a keto diet is because it is more muscle sparing than a "balanced" diet. Numerous adaptions take place to adapt the body to run predominantly on fat for fuel, shifting fuel away from glucose for most activities and therefore potentially sparing muscle mass during dieting. Fatigue, some are more tired, some have more energy. It depends on the individual but also the amt. of time on the diet, many people don't take the necessary time to allow the adaptions to take place and enzyme upregulation to burn fat to feel fine. The brain thing is a huge myth, the brain needs 100g glucose a day for fuel on avg., 75% can be met through ketones once adapted to the diet and the small amt. remaining can be met from a small amt. of carb eaten, or conversion of fats (glycerol, actually) and protein into glucose via gluconeogenesis. The whole reason for adaptions in a keto diet are pretty much to fuel the brain w/ ketones, as the rest of the body pretty much runs on Free Fatty Acids once the adaptions take place (generally 3 weeks to do so). Ammonia build up w/ be a result of excess protein and not ketones, which, if you know what you're doing, wouldnt happen b/c excess protein prevents ketosis. And how does this diet damage your thyroid???

Lyle HAS used ketogenic diets before and pretty much does everything he advocates. How doesn't he follow his advice??? He is probably one of the best sources of information on bodybuilding around. He doesn't look great b/c he admits not having good genetics, and doesn't take steroids. Dan Duchaine didn't turn heads either, but his info was very popular as well. And about maintaining ketosis, talk to 1000's of atkins dieters, they can tell you all about what its like. Or check out the research on Epileptic children, where they are sometimes kept for years in deep ketosis w/ few negative effects.

I personally realize their benefits but also the fact they are unneccessary for many people and are more trouble than they are worth. It is true that once protein needs and EFA needs are met, its all calories, but even for health reasons there is more to it than this.

 

[Nelson Montana]

At the risk of going back and forth (which is inevitable on these forums) I'll try to address your points PwB.

Chris Shugart? Talk about a guy with no credentials! But I have nothing against him. He is a TC "yes man" though, no doubt about it.

Charles Poliquin: TC bashed him in his editorial (can't remember the date) but didn't have the balls to say who he was talking about. He realized putting him down hurt more than it helped so he softened his stance. He still fired him.

Ian King. Nice guy. Knows his stuff. But "getting hold of him" wasn't too tough. He was a friend of Charles who needed work. No one knew who he was until I did an interview to promote him.

Don Alessi. A guy with great genetics who looks the part, hence, he got the gig.

Lyle admits to using DNP to lose fat. Hey, he's a smart guy who's entitled to his opinion, but he's way off on this one. It's not unlike Mike Mentzer. If one set a week works so great why didn't he do it? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T!

That statement about the brain only needing 100 grams of glucose is not accurate. (Maybe for survival, not optimum function) Diets that are severely restricted in carbohydrates have been shown to cause hypothyroidism -- which means down the line, you'll REALLY have a hard time keeping fat off.

Healthy athletes are not epileptic chickens.
You're absolutely right that once a balanced, high protein diet is met, it's all about calories.

Of course I'm trying to promote my book. But if any of this makes any sense, you'll probably enjoy it. It'll certainly save people a lot of time and money. It not only covers diet but training, supps, drugs and methods of the old time pre-roid bodybuilders. Check it out.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Chickens? I meant epileptic children

 

[MohawkMuscle]

Well I for one really enjoy reading Nelsons Articles. I always like the basic truth in terms of BB.
This is why I also loved Vince Gironda articles.

I find there is so much hype in BB that noone really know what to do. Too much nitro tech/ celltech crap and f00-foo exercises to bring out the inner peak in the bicept.

I think Nelson is the man that will make BB simple again.



PS. I emailed you a few days ago and the email was returned. Is it still at webtv?

 

[MohawkMuscle]

Registered: Aug 2002

Posts: 452



PS
How can he post the above messages but I cantfind anyone of them?

 

[Kid Dynamite]

I agree with some points. Some people over complicate their diet and training so much they just sity there, spinning their wheels and making no progress. I've done that before, dropped the overly complicated shit and got alot better results.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Mohawk,
I still use WebTV for e-mail. The address is [email protected] I read all letters and try to answer all serious questions but usually can't provide an extensive dialogue due to the quantity of mail I receive.

 

[MS]

"And the truth will set you free......."

Seems to me PwB basically agrees with Nelson (and me) that adequate protein and minimal EFAs are all that really matters in the long run in terms of diet (excluding drugs). All the nit-picking that goes on concerning macronutritents, timing of nutrients, the superiority of one diet over another etc....is ultimately just a waste of mental energy once you accept that adding muscle=excess calories and losing fat=reduced calories. All that matters is your ability to pick a diet and stick to it. I think it's the "sticking to it" side of things where people will differ, though that's largely psychological/willpower.

And Lyle McD (or Dan Duchainne) is a perfect example of this. He will always have an ugly physique no matter how good his diet is. Accepting this and either moving on or getting major plastic surgery and hitting the drugs big time are his only options to improve his lot. For people like him (which is actually quite a lot of people) it is less painful in the long run t recognize these limitations and chose a career other than bodybuilding or GQ modelling.

Other than that, Lyle (and everyone else) can aim to be the HEALTHIEST ugly physique that their genes will allow them to be, by cutting most of the crap from their diets and doing some regular weight bearing exercise. I'm guessing that's what Nelson's book (in part) will outline how to do? I don't know and don't really care since I have no plans to buy his book.

Attacking people's credentials in a world where credentials can be bought and traded (think of your average personal trainer) is silly, especially on the web. I know plenty of folks with biochemistry degrees that have never picked up a weight and are totally clueless about how to eat properly or lose weight. The majority of dieticians I've known have less than enviable physiques and are hardly good billboards for their credentials. And medical doctors may be the most clueless of all professionals when it comes to healthy lifestyles......

Obviously if you're pudgy or obese and get yourself on a successful submaintenance calorie diet plus exercise program, your gonna look and feel a whole lot better. I don't think anyone is saying that what and how much you eat DOESN'T matter. But food is not going to change your basic structure, framework, personality (including willpower and motivation), height, width of bones that you hang your muscles on, attachment points, torso or leg length, bodyfat distribution, etc....You're not going to look like Ronnie Coleman even if you ate exactly what he ate, took the same drugs and did the same workouts.

 

[Spartacus]

bump this antique

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Ahhhh... Nelson we found something we don't agree on. I'm not going to rehash other's statements about diets, but my major is nutrional science, and I very much believe one's diet plays a huge impact on both body composition and health. Still, as I've said before, I don't agree with everything you say, but you still raise some interesting points, and from time to time I've had to step back and rethink a few things based on something you've written. Of course, I've read articles you've written on diets, and find them to be less logical and much of it does not match current research when compaired to your writings on training and drug use. I do have one question concerning your logic. How does attacking Lyle prove or disprove the advantage of low carb diets? Its not like he actually came up with the idea or is even a bodybuilder. I find keto diets to be quite effective for me, and I've never read anything the man has written.