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Dieting and Body Adaption?

MrMakaveli

New member
Okay -

Lets say you drop from 12% to 6% and then start to try and maintain it. Exactly how long does it take for the body to adjust its set-point in accordance with 6%. I've heard three years, since most cells will have replaced themselves by then but that seems a bit high.

Any opinions?
 
Actually, there is no evidence that this will ever happen. It doesn't have to do with cell replacement but brain chemistry. Your brain becomes more or less wired in such a way that it only feels normal at a certain bodyfat %/weight and will do anything it can to maintain this level. Even studies in rats show no adaption to a lower set point, which would occur faster in them since their bodies adapt much quicker than humans.

To make it even worse, there is evidence that the set point CAN be raised, mainly from what your mother ate when she was pregnant, and what you were fed as a baby, and ate during your developmental years up into your teens. Even at an older age, the set point can go up but hasn't been shown in any cases to go down.

Being NATURAL (no juice) and staying well below your setpoint will be a lifetime struggle to some degree. It will require constantly staying on a diet, from somewhat to severly screwed hormone levels, possible sexual dysfunction, low energy, constant hunger, etc. Much of this has to do with Leptin which controls many of the negative effects experienced during dieting. One way to try and keep things "normal" is frequent refeeds, especially as you get leaner. Maintaining Leptin during dieting seems to be a key to keeping the body from detecting too much of a disruption, allowing you to function better and keep the fat off long term. Does this suck, yes, big time. Is it possible to maintain, yes. It just doesn't happen readily, I believe 95% of people eventually fail on a given diet and gain the weight back. Thats why I think refeeds are so important, not only physiologically, but also psychologically. Not being allowed to cheat on a diet for weeks or months on end will result in serious bingeing/fat gain at some point. Just ask any precontest bodybuilder, being hardcore like that can do more harm than good. Its important to follow something you can live with, and right now i'm on such a plan that is cake to follow and works great as well.
 
Decided to look into this a little further for you. Here is some info I am posting from Lyle McDonald.


"Have a poor nutritional state (b/c of mom) during fetal development
Hit puberty
Get and stay fat for extended periods
Get pregnant
Age

All tend to shift setpoint up.

I've seen no data to suggest that setpoint will come back down. EVER.

Not in the animal models (see work by BE Levin in the DIO and DR mouse,
once DIO rats achieve a new, higher setpoint, they will defend it
avidly), not in the human models (studies of the post-obese so no
'resetting' of impaired metabolism over several years of maintaining the
lower bodyfat).

Levin has also advanced an interesting hypothesis that there are neural
circuits that may become imprinted at various points in life, raising
setpoint, and that the obdy will defend that higher setpoint avidly. See:

Levin BE. Metabolic imprinting on genetically predisposed neural
circuits perpetuates obesity. Nutrition. 2000 Oct;16(10):909-15. Review.

Levin BE. The obesity epidemic: metabolic imprinting on genetically
susceptible neural circuits. Obes Res. 2000 Jul;8(4):342-7. Review.

That's on top of various impaired neurochemistry that predisposes
towards becoming obese in the first place. Levin's work with the DIO
rat is very instructive. Not only do they have neurochemistry
(NPY/CRH/etc) that predisopses them towards greater weight gain, once
they achieve the higher bodyfat level (i.e. acheive the setpoint that
their brain wants), they defend it as avidly as the DR rats do at the
lower weight. Studies of folks predisposed towards obesity (cf. the
Pima) are pretty homologous with the rat studies. It's not until folks
become obese that the various metabolic parameters become 'normal'.

Finding a way to shift the setpoint back downwards would be a huge
advancement in obsity treatment. I'm not convinced it's possible. Some
of the brain's changes appear to be a one-way street, irreversible for
all practical purposes.

Lyle"
 
Wow thanks man thats some of the more interesting stuff I've read on this board in a few months. So basically if your genetics dictate a setpoint higher than what you want, its a lifetime of dieting w/ refeeds or other leptin stimulators. Time to break out the Old Body-Opus book again or find some nicotine gum.
 
check out lyles bromocriptine book.

I think the best approach is to just incorporate frequent refeeds. Check out my post I just made to nclifter about his failed diet. This is easy to follow and works. People think dieting harder and stricter works better, its BS and its actually more advantagous psysiologically and pschologically to take breaks.
 
Is this 'set point' stuff mean that you have to maintain a certain bf %? Or that you just like to have X amount of lbs of fat on your body?
 
Well, one day if you have enough money to splurge, you will be able to get a procedure done that destroys fat cells without having to cut you open for liposuction. they did it on pigs and it works. basically what it is, is a modification of the level of the intensity of the sonogram i believe, and you just run it over an area containing fat and it destroys the cells completely fomt he inside out. You can only get so much done at a time tho'. I read about it on the net somewhere on a news site, so it wasn't some kind of farce, and I don't know where the testing is at right about now. Once this comes along, blammo fat cells on my stomacn, ass, and face haha. Wonder how much it'll cost.
 
Wasnt there an anabolic steroid that was supposed to destroy fat-cells. PGF-1 maybe? cant remember. If you search animals board I believe there are some studies also showing CLA could lower the number of fat-cells. I guess the solution is just a matter of time.
 
MrMakaveli said:
Wasnt there an anabolic steroid that was supposed to destroy fat-cells. PGF-1 maybe? cant remember. If you search animals board I believe there are some studies also showing CLA could lower the number of fat-cells. I guess the solution is just a matter of time.

PGF2a, short for prostaglandin factor 2 alpha. I don't know whether there was ever any hard scientific evidence that it killed fat cells - just anecdotal reports by users.
 
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