deca and propecia/finasteride

[needsize]

This was triggered by another post I just read, but has anyone ever seen proof about how deca and finasteride are a bad combo, exactly what it does, or even tried the combo themselves?
I ask as I run deca with every cycle, but really would like to be on something that lowers dht levels, dont need to mess up my prostate any more than it needs to be

 

[krishna]

As test reduces to dht, deca reduces to dhn. They both reduce because of an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase. When test reduces to dht, it becomes more androgenic and causes more problems with hair loss and prostate. When deca is reduced to dhn, the opposite happens. Deca is more potent and androgenic before it is reduced, and less severe when it becomes dhn. Finasteride inhibits the 5-ar enzyme, thus stopping the conversion of test to dht, and deca to dhn. This helps combat the effects of test becoming more androgenic, but with deca it becomes more androgenic because it is not allowed to reduce to the less potent form dhn.

 

[needsize]

As test reduces to dht, deca reduces to dhn. They both reduce because of an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase. When test reduces to dht, it becomes more androgenic and causes more problems with hair loss and prostate. When deca is reduced to dhn, the opposite happens. Deca is more potent and androgenic before it is reduced, and less severe when it becomes dhn. Finasteride inhibits the 5-ar enzyme, thus stopping the conversion of test to dht, and deca to dhn. This helps combat the effects of test becoming more androgenic, but with deca it becomes more androgenic because it is not allowed to reduce to the less potent form dhn.

so in stupid bodybuilder terms , what is going to happen to my body when I take both together?

 

[krishna]

If you take test and finasteride together, you obviously know it will help with the sides. If you take deca and finasteride together, it will make the sides worse. If you take test, deca, and finasteride, you might have some problems from the deca. In theory, they would cancel eachother out, and it would almost be like not taking the finasteride at all. If you take deca and test without finasteride, it will probably be about the same, although deca competes for the 5-ar enzyme, which should lower test conversion to dht. With high amounts of test though, you're still going to get a lot of conversion. Ever looked into Saw Palmetto Extract?

 

[needsize]

If you take test and finasteride together, you obviously know it will help with the sides. If you take deca and finasteride together, it will make the sides worse. If you take test, deca, and finasteride, you might have some problems from the deca. In theory, they would cancel eachother out, and it would almost be like not taking the finasteride at all. If you take deca and test without finasteride, it will probably be about the same, although deca competes for the 5-ar enzyme, which should lower test conversion to dht. With high amounts of test though, you're still going to get a lot of conversion. Ever looked into Saw Palmetto Extract?

thanks, that makes sense. I looked into saw palmetto, I know its supposed to reduce dht levels, wouldnt it come with the same sides then if I run it with deca?

 

[krishna]

thanks, that makes sense. I looked into saw palmetto, I know its supposed to reduce dht levels, wouldnt it come with the same sides then if I run it with deca?

I've come across some studies that indicate that its 5-ar reduction is very minimal, and that it most likely works by mediating androgens at the receptors of specific tissues. If this is indeed the case, it would help with any gear. I've used it with deca and test before, and it worked great.

 

[Goldprospector]

Does durasteride (avodart) do the same thing?

 

[krishna]

Does durasteride (avodart) do the same thing?

Even moreso.

 

[needsize]

thanks krishna, I'll give that a try instead...I wonder if it helps at all at the hair follicles?

 

[Guvna]

need, what sides are you trying to use it to combat: just prostate, or hair too?


Secondly, are you taking test with this cycle? Do you use an AI?


Do you take and ECA stack or the like?

 

[Guvna]

thanks krishna, I'll give that a try instead...I wonder if it helps at all at the hair follicles?

No, saw palmetto is prostate specific.



Prostate Actions of Saw Palmetto
Becoming Clearer

By Donald J. Brown, ND

Healthnotes Newswire (June 7, 2001)—Men taking a saw palmetto herbal combination were found to have decreased amounts of dihydrotestosterone (DHT)—a hormone linked to benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH)—in tissue samples taken from their prostates by needle biopsy.

The results of the study presented at Tuesday’s American Urological Association annual meeting in Anaheim, California and published this week in the journal Urology,1 confirm that a saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) supplement reduces levels of DHT—an action that is thought to contribute to the herb’s ability to treat mild to moderate BPH in men.

Tissue samples were obtained from the prostates of men with symptomatic BPH who had been taking a saw palmetto supplement (320 mg of saw palmetto per day combined with nettle root, pumpkin seed oil, lemon flavonoids, and vitamin A) or placebo for six months. Samples were also obtained from men with BPH who were either untreated or were taking the drug Proscar® (finasteride)—a prescription drug for BPH which is known to reduce DHT levels by inhibiting the enzyme 5-alpha reductase.

Men taking finasteride were found to have a sizable drop of 80% in prostate DHT levels compared to untreated men. By comparison, the saw palmetto supplement led to a 32% decrease in DHT levels.

While weaker than finasteride, saw palmetto’s effects on DHT were centered only in the prostate and did not affect blood levels of the hormone. Those in the finasteride group had a 70% decrease in blood levels of the hormone.





It has the pubmed refs if you are interested.

 

[g35mann]

ahhh shit, only in the prostate.

 

[thebrakes]

No, saw palmetto is prostate specific.

Prostate Actions of Saw Palmetto
Becoming Clearer

By Donald J. Brown, ND

Healthnotes Newswire (June 7, 2001)—Men taking a saw palmetto herbal combination were found to have decreased amounts of dihydrotestosterone (DHT)—a hormone linked to benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH)—in tissue samples taken from their prostates by needle biopsy.

The results of the study presented at Tuesday’s American Urological Association annual meeting in Anaheim, California and published this week in the journal Urology,1 confirm that a saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) supplement reduces levels of DHT—an action that is thought to contribute to the herb’s ability to treat mild to moderate BPH in men.

Tissue samples were obtained from the prostates of men with symptomatic BPH who had been taking a saw palmetto supplement (320 mg of saw palmetto per day combined with nettle root, pumpkin seed oil, lemon flavonoids, and vitamin A) or placebo for six months. Samples were also obtained from men with BPH who were either untreated or were taking the drug Proscar® (finasteride)—a prescription drug for BPH which is known to reduce DHT levels by inhibiting the enzyme 5-alpha reductase.

Men taking finasteride were found to have a sizable drop of 80% in prostate DHT levels compared to untreated men. By comparison, the saw palmetto supplement led to a 32% decrease in DHT levels.

While weaker than finasteride, saw palmetto’s effects on DHT were centered only in the prostate and did not affect blood levels of the hormone. Those in the finasteride group had a 70% decrease in blood levels of the hormone.


It has the pubmed refs if you are interested.

that is really interesting. i wonder if the lack of a systemic DHT reduction is at all a function of the smaller degree to which sawP inhibits reductase?

i can tell you this - i took sawP during a PCT and it wrecked my libido and dropped my ejcaulate volume within just a few days. i got off the stuff and was fine within 2 days.

 

[krishna]

No, saw palmetto is prostate specific.



Prostate Actions of Saw Palmetto
Becoming Clearer

By Donald J. Brown, ND

Healthnotes Newswire (June 7, 2001)—Men taking a saw palmetto herbal combination were found to have decreased amounts of dihydrotestosterone (DHT)—a hormone linked to benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH)—in tissue samples taken from their prostates by needle biopsy.

The results of the study presented at Tuesday’s American Urological Association annual meeting in Anaheim, California and published this week in the journal Urology,1 confirm that a saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) supplement reduces levels of DHT—an action that is thought to contribute to the herb’s ability to treat mild to moderate BPH in men.

Tissue samples were obtained from the prostates of men with symptomatic BPH who had been taking a saw palmetto supplement (320 mg of saw palmetto per day combined with nettle root, pumpkin seed oil, lemon flavonoids, and vitamin A) or placebo for six months. Samples were also obtained from men with BPH who were either untreated or were taking the drug Proscar® (finasteride)—a prescription drug for BPH which is known to reduce DHT levels by inhibiting the enzyme 5-alpha reductase.

Men taking finasteride were found to have a sizable drop of 80% in prostate DHT levels compared to untreated men. By comparison, the saw palmetto supplement led to a 32% decrease in DHT levels.

While weaker than finasteride, saw palmetto’s effects on DHT were centered only in the prostate and did not affect blood levels of the hormone. Those in the finasteride group had a 70% decrease in blood levels of the hormone.




It has the pubmed refs if you are interested.

This study does not exclude the possibility that saw palmetto may have tissue specific effects in the scalp too. It merely shows that it does not affect blood levels of androgens. This coincides what I said earlier that it seems to mediate androgens at the receptors instead of affecting androgen plasma levels. It also shows that it's 5-ar inhibition is weak, and that it most likely helps in other ways as indicated.

 

[Guvna]

This study does not exclude the possibility that saw palmetto may have tissue specific effects in the scalp too.

That is a possibiliy. However, it did mention that the effects were "centered in the prostate." Perhaps the scalp was studied also, but showed no function of SP on receptor sights. Contrarily, perhaps it was simply not looked at.


Ill check the refs.

 

[krishna]

That is a possibiliy. However, it did mention that the effects were "centered in the prostate." Perhaps the scalp was studied also, but showed no function of SP on receptor sights. Contrarily, perhaps it was simply not looked at.


Ill check the refs.

If the scalp was tested, it would surely be mentioned unless the researchers are purposely trying to hide something.