Cytomel & Appetite...... (Help!)????

[VegasGirl26]

Hi everyone! As you can see from my screen name I am a 26 y/o female. Here's my problem, I took Cytomel about 8 months ago & it made my appetite HUGE. I was literally ravenous every single minute of the day. I was also taking a strong e/c/a stack, however that was not helping to curb my monstrous appetite. I really need help losing my extra pounds. I am desperate for advise on how to go about this the correct way. Would someone help me come up with the proper way to take t3 so that I actually see results this time around?? Can too much Cytomel actually make a person gain weight?? Basically, can a person out-eat t3? I have not been taking anything in months. Therefore, I now feel I am ready to start fresh. My biggest problem is my appetite. I've been trying to use sheer willpower and just grin & bare these past months, but I need some help...especially with the holidays approaching! How about adding Clenbuterol to the Cytomel? Will it truly help me burn fat more efficiently? Also, what is the absolute best appetite suppressant to take with this stack? Any advise would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much!!

 

[variation]

Hello vegasgirl26, I can see you have a dilema on your hands, I'm surpised the ephedrine didn't kill your appetite, it totally destroys mine

How were you using the t3? pyramid or just straight dosages, please elaborate on this, yes, you can out-eat t3, it really comes down to the type and amount of macronutrients you consume.

While clen would probably help, you must really get the diet down correct, as little as some of us may like to hear

some options to look into is the diet board, Mr.X over there is very knowledgable, and could probably help you greatly with the diet, and as far as drug advice, the women over at the womens board may be able to be of better assistance, but I'm sure you could get some good advice here as well, if you start laying out some specifics of how you were using the drugs, but seriously.. look into getting a solid diet plan layed out first.

Best of luck...

 

[VegasGirl26]

Hello! Thank you for the response Ok, at first I was losing weight on the t3, then I became depressed, lazy, unmotivated, and my appetite started getting 'even more incredibly large'. I started using my e/c/a stack to the point it no longer worked for me. (I can't seem to find a strong e/c/a stack these days with the new laws) To answer your question No, I used the t3 straight, no pyramid. just a high dosage. Double what a woman is supposed to take. My theory was that if a little was good, a lot was even better! I had no bad side effects, other than my appetite was ENORMOUS. I now understand I am a complete IDIOT. I really messed up with the t3 big time! The thing is, that was now months ago ... Am I doomed for life?? Please tell me what I can do now?? As far as the ephedrine not helping curb my appetite, I think maybe I over used ephedrine as well. (I do take ephedrine often for energy) Can the body get use to a certain supplement such as an e/c/a stack and therefore one needs to switch to another supplement? I read that with appetite suppressants you have to switch every 8-12 weeks to get the full effect...is that true?? I am utterly confused!!!! I changed my diet. I have been eating a low carbohydrate, high protein, no sugar diet now for the past three months. Atkins to be exact. I feel this is a great diet for me in the sense that it helps me control my never ending sweet tooth and I feel better, more in control. I have been so dedicated to exercise... jogging daily for the past three months, eating healthy. I just feel I messed up my body chemistry months back and now I am never going to get this weight off! Please help me .... I need a plan

 

[variation]

Well yes, running the t3 straight at a high dosage can cause some supression of the thyroid, it may have had some trouble recovering aftewards and low t3 levels after the cycle resulted in the fat gains...

I'd suggest, if using t3 again (but if you can you might want to get some blood work done to see how far you are off baseline, if you are) but next time around to start perhaps low.. even as low as 12.5mcg each step up the pyramid to be run in a 2-3 day fasion until you reach your peak dosage, although lowering it real low is most important nearer to the end of the t3 cycle.

perhaps something like a 2 month cycle:

day 1-2 25mcg
day 3-4 50mcg
day 5-30 100mcg (assuming this is max dosage)

then slowly taper during the last month down to small quantities...

like:
31-35 75mcg
36-40 50mcg
41-45 35mcg
46-50 20mcg
51-60 12.5mcg

if anyone sees any problems with this please state.
e/c/a I do build up a tolerance for pretty quickly, but I usually don't run it for extended periods of time, you could consider, with each meal adding some salad.. (no bad salad dressings) romaine lettuce, a bit of chopped mushroom, chopped celery, a bit of chopped tomatoe, and even some avacado+olive oil for some healthy fats + fiber. The fiber/oil in the salads will help to slow digestion and keep you feeling full longer.
Protein is good, make sure you keep fatrotein ratios in a fairly equal ratio, as too much protein can ruin your state of ketosis, if that's what you're after, clen would help with anti-muscle catabolism on the t3, however, I think someone else here could offer better advice on clen usage, I haven't any experience with it, sorry.

Just relax, set out your goals, and accomplish them.. try not to get too uptight about this, if you want more specifics on diet, I strongly suggest you look at some of Mr.X's stuff over at the diet discussion board and even consult with him if you have any problems/concerns.

The jogging is good, do you lift weights?

you could look into natural thermogens like green tea extract, very cheap at www.beyond-a-century.com

anabolicfitness.com also offers 2 products liporexin and thermorexin, that people have been having success with.

 

[BigAndy69]

Variation, those doses are not suitable for women. I would never advise a woman to go over 50mcg. (and that's pushing it)

A woman's thyroid is much more sensitive than a men's

 

[variation]

Variation, those doses are not suitable for women. I would never advise a woman to go over 50mcg. (and that's pushing it)

A woman's thyroid is much more sensitive than a men's

Thank you, for the input BigAndy, I thought this might be edgy ground, which is why I made the comment about if anyone sees a problem...

again, as mentioned in the other post, most of us have experience with males, the womens discussion board may be better suited... but the concept of the pyramid should still be prevelant, dosages however may need altering, and I believe this is why you had problems previously, high dose and no time for thyroid & related hormones adjusting.

 

[BigAndy69]

variation, always here to help.

Many people, especially women fall in the T3 trap. It's a vicious circle, they use it, get great results crash, and repeat over and over until they have no choice but to stay on all the time

 

[variation]

Ya, I'd hate to see someone hurt themself like that. Must be very careful when playing with hormones

 

[VegasGirl26]

Thank you for the information on t3 dosage and cycle...Very much appreciate everything you have to say. I can use all the help I can get. I've been feeling miserable the past few week. To the point of weight obsession! See, I have to go on a cruise December 26th and I want to drop as much weight as humanly possible, without having to go on a water fast. OK, let me make sure I've got this correct... As long as I run t3 on pyramid + low dosage, Max 100 mcg my appetite won't go overboard? Did my appetite get enormous because I was running an insanely high dosage of t3? I started thinking I was out eating my t3, because I was taking in many many many calories, I couldn't control myself. Plus, I was not on a low carb, high fat/protein diet. What can I do for an appetite suppressant if ephedrine no longer works?? Would something like prescription Phentermine, or Didrex be of much help while on t3? I read L-Tyrosine is combination with an appetite suppressant makes the effects much stronger?
As for the protein, I have actually been trying to eat much more protein, thinking that alone would help curb my appetite. I'll be sure to go take a look at Mr. X posts!

I thank you again for your terrific advise!

 

[VegasGirl26]

Ok ... just read: Do not go over 50 mcg daily. I was taking 4x that amount, and like I said I actually started gaining weight. I thought I was going to lose weight like crazy. It backfired on me. I hear everyone say what amazing weight lose results they've had on t3, but I didn't lose weight on it, and then gain it back once I stopped. I just gain weight on t3, and gained even more once I stopped. I don't understand how it is possible to gain weight on t3. This just boggles my mind.

 

[variation]

mother of god, 200mcg of t3 ya, I guess you could level it at 50mcg or even lower, as bigandy suggested that may even be pushing it. but definately use the taper, that is critical in not crashing.

December 26th not a lot of time, I know you want to drop as much weight as possible, unfortunately it may not be the healthiest way.

Good luck, and be careful.

I don't know much in regards to chemical appetite supression, but as I said higher fiber and fat intakes will slow gastric emptying, and that has a certain degree of appetite supression in it's self, not to mention very fiberous and dark green vegetables like romaine lettuce have very little calorie value, which could be useful... really Mr.X can help you get on track with diet.

 

[OXANDRIN]

all this talk about how t3 destroys your thyroid is making me sick.....no different than any other gland in the body. it doesn't just die. it slows when not needed. people make excuses for the weight/fat gain after taking t3 and conclude they no longer have thyroid output. this is wrong. basically your bmr is back to normal and you continue eating the way you did while you were on t3. hence you gain weight. simple but true

 

[variation]

are you claiming there is no thyroid & relavent hormones TSH etc.. supression?

 

[dali]

As a women takin cytomel you're playing with fire. Thyroid meds are NOT for women in fitness PERIOD. Sounds like your thyroid is already out of whack. An increased appetite and increased bodyfat are good signs of an irregular thyroid gland. Get yourself checked out and stay the hell away from cytomel. Clen is ok, but don't over do it. If I were you I'd wait to see if your body up to speed first.

 

[soflaguy]

Reading this thread has me shaking my head. I don't think anywhere in it I heard much of anything like "my exercise program consisted of 30-45min of cardio daily" or "I was doing light dumbell workouts combined with....".

Everything was this drug combined with that drug, etc.

I don't remember the exact numbers but an ECA stack only boosts daily metabolism about 5% and t3/clen is something like 8%. The guys here taking t3 are also taking more than just clen for the anti-catabolics, more than likely some other AS like test.

In only 4-5 weeks, the only thing that might work would be a.m. and p.m. cardio combined with a light dumbells workout. And a diet consisting of tuna, vegetables and water.

If you are set on taking a drug and not having to exercise and diet, then I know of some women who seriously take cocaine/amphetemines just to fit into their designer clothes. It sounds ridiculous, but at least you will look good on that cruise.

 

[VegasGirl26]

Ok Soflaguy, Tell me where in the world would I get these Amphetemines....???? Oooh... Don't tell me you too don't give out sources!

 

[OXANDRIN]

are you claiming there is no thyroid & relavent hormones TSH etc.. supression?

i think just about everyone will agree if your body doesn't need to produce a hormone because it is being supplemented then it will not. once you stop supplimenting the body it signals itself to get the process going again.... does this take time.... of course it does. how long is unknown. for some maybe only a few days.... for others maybe many months. but to never recover could have been a pred determined genetic condition for thyroid problems

 

[variation]

i think just about everyone will agree if your body doesn't need to produce a hormone because it is being supplemented then it will not. once you stop supplimenting the body it signals itself to get the process going again.... does this take time.... of course it does. how long is unknown. for some maybe only a few days.... for others maybe many months. but to never recover could have been a pred determined genetic condition for thyroid problems

I agree with you.

I haven't seen anything conclusive on permanent thyroid shutdown, but certainly supression, which is why I suggested that without a taper, could explain rapid weight gain after t3 supplementation is discontinued, but yes, eating the same diet will definately contribute as well.

I think alot in bodybuilding is often exaggerated.

 

[poantrex]

Let's make it simple.

DO NOT USE CYTOMEL IF YOU'RE FEMALE.

 

[BigAndy69]

i think just about everyone will agree if your body doesn't need to produce a hormone because it is being supplemented then it will not. once you stop supplimenting the body it signals itself to get the process going again.... does this take time.... of course it does. how long is unknown. for some maybe only a few days.... for others maybe many months. but to never recover could have been a pred determined genetic condition for thyroid problems

Actually it's not a few days, average is 4-6 weeks for regular cycles. (I have posted studies on this in my T3 faq)

 

[OXANDRIN]

Actually it's not a few days, average is 4-6 weeks for regular cycles. (I have posted studies on this in my T3 faq)

who were the people in studies?


bodybuilders and athletes or slobs sitting on there ass all day?

 

[BigAndy69]

who were the people in studies?


bodybuilders and athletes or slobs sitting on there ass all day?

It makes no difference.

You can improve your thyroid output by doing a few things

HIT Cardio
Increase Carb intake (no change in Calorie intake)

 

[OXANDRIN]

You can improve your thyroid output by doing a few things

HIT Cardio
Increase Carb intake (no change in Calorie intake)

exactly.....were the subjects in the study doing cardio or eating clean carbs?

or did it not say?

 

[BigAndy69]

exactly.....were the subjects in the study doing cardio or eating clean carbs?

or did it not say?

I'll get that study give me a minute...

You can reset your thyroid output in a matter of days, same thing goes for the HPTA...

 

[BigAndy69]

N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

 

[BigAndy69]

Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.

 

[BigAndy69]

N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable. After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal. Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

It's important to know that this study applies to medical doses of T3 in the 25-50mcg (sometime 75mcg) range.