Cutting Pro's

[krishna]

Alright, I need to get with someone about my diet, work-out routine, and a possible fat burner to kick it into gear. I've been on a very clean diet with lots of cardio since I started my tren/test cycle, and I'm really not where I want to be. I'm still at about 10% bf, and can't seem to get it much lower. I'm willing to work my ass off (I have been already) so someone help me out. I don't have much experience with cutting. Feel free to post on here or pm me. K people!

 

[wayneboard1]

Alright, I need to get with someone about my diet, work-out routine, and a possible fat burner to kick it into gear. I've been on a very clean diet with lots of cardio since I started my tren/test cycle, and I'm really not where I want to be. I'm still at about 10% bf, and can't seem to get it much lower. I'm willing to work my ass off (I have been already) so someone help me out. I don't have much experience with cutting. Feel free to post on here or pm me. K people!

I will bumo this in hopes that you get some info we can all learn from as I will be in the same boat later this summer. Good luck Krishna.

 

[mendo]

I'm curious also. What is you diet like Krishna?

 

[krishna]

Diet:

1: 2 eggs, 6 egg whites, oats
2: steak, chicken or tuna; nuts or natty peanut butter; veggies
3: steak, chicken or tuna; nuts, fruit, 1 piece whole wheat bread
4: red meat, chicken or fish; 1 piece whole wheat bread, veggies
5: steak, chicken or tuna; nuts or natty pb, veggies
6: PWO shake - 50 grams whey/50 grams dextrose
7: 1 1/2 cups cottage cheese, veggies
8: if I'm up late - lean meat

 

[mendo]

Diet:

1: 2 eggs, 6 egg whites, oats
2: steak, chicken or tuna; nuts or natty peanut butter; veggies
3: steak, chicken or tuna; nuts, fruit, 1 piece whole wheat bread
4: red meat, chicken or fish; 1 piece whole wheat bread, veggies
5: steak, chicken or tuna; nuts or natty pb, veggies
6: PWO shake - 50 grams whey/50 grams dextrose
7: 1 1/2 cups cottage cheese, veggies
8: if I'm up late - lean meat

Looks good to me. Personally I would substitute whole wheat pasta or more oats for the HW bread. Thats just me though. Bread (even whole wheat) is fairly high GI... I'm a big fan of fish oil as well. I'm curious what the diet gurus have to say.

 

[borg4902]

Brown rice, instead of bread, also give me an idea of how much meat in these meals?

 

[Joe Stenson]

Personally, I think if you're not naturally very lean (and thus wouldn't have much trouble getting into single digits) you've gotta carb/calorie cycle...especially if you're off right now.

 

[krishna]

Brown rice, instead of bread, also give me an idea of how much meat in these meals?

Lately I'd say at least 40 grams of protein per serving. I don't measure the oz., I usually just look at protein content.

 

[krishna]

Personally, I think if you're not naturally very lean (and thus wouldn't have much trouble getting into single digits) you've gotta carb/calorie cycle...especially if you're off right now.

Well I am having trouble staying below 10% so what do you recommend?

What about training guys?

 

[borg4902]

Morning empty tank cardio for shure! Now way around that one. Start light and see how your body adapts. If you want faster results do more, you can also hit cardio after you lift so your stores are properly depleted first, start light here as well. Get 2 times protein as body weight. Play with the carbs, keep them nonexistant around bedtime for sure.

 

[krishna]

Morning empty tank cardio for shure! Now way around that one. Start light and see how your body adapts. If you want faster results do more, you can also hit cardio after you lift so your stores are properly depleted first, start light here as well. Get 2 times protein as body weight. Play with the carbs, keep them nonexistant around bedtime for sure.

Ya I usually walk around the block in the morning before I eat. I can't run because I get shin splints and screwed up knees. I'm moving closer to one of my gyms at the end of the month so I was planning on hyping up the am cardio. Thanks borg!

 

[krishna]

I gotta spread k around before I can give it to most of you guys.

 

[mendo]

Well I am having trouble staying below 10% so what do you recommend?

What about training guys?

Are you on cycle or off? If you are off...then just reduce the volume (fewer sets but keep the weight high) . Otherwise train just like you were bulking. The difference between bulking and cutting is really just diet . As for cardio...hiking on an incline treadmill is great, very low impact...but can be high intensity. HIIT on an empty stomach is a key part of cutting for me. Its still 75% diet though...

 

[krishna]

Are you on cycle or off? If you are off...then just reduce the volume (fewer sets but keep the weight high) . Otherwise train just like you were bulking. The difference between bulking and cutting is really just diet . As for cardio...hiking on an incline treadmill is great, very low impact...but can be high intensity. HIIT on an empty stomach is a key part of cutting for me. Its still 75% diet though...

I'm on week 6 tren/test

 

[azul]

Fish oil is great... it actually burns calories.

HIIT is amazing, but I dunno if you can do it with your legs. Rowing and the elliptical are good too.

I like to cycle my calories. So I might eat 2000 calories for 2 days and 2500 on the third (mainly more carbs) to kinda 'reset' your metabolism.

What's yer workout routine like?

 

[mendo]

Fish oil is great... it actually burns calories.

HIIT is amazing, but I dunno if you can do it with your legs. Rowing and the elliptical are good too.

I like to cycle my calories. So I might eat 2000 calories for 2 days and 2500 on the third (mainly more carbs) to kinda 'reset' your metabolism.

What's yer workout routine like?

Yeah. Krishna, if you really want to get into single digits, do some research into leptin and carb cycling...and Cyclic Ketogenic Diets. I know you're not affraid of research....

 

[krishna]

What about swimming for HIIT?

 

[borg4902]

Screw ckd!

 

[will b huge]

Ya I usually walk around the block in the morning before I eat. I can't run because I get shin splints and screwed up knees. I'm moving closer to one of my gyms at the end of the month so I was planning on hyping up the am cardio. Thanks borg!

Krishna,

If you can be disciplined, you can do a standard competition diet and you will have abs in less than 10 weeks!!!!!!

You must do methodical boring cardio--like the bike at 70% for an hour EVERYDAY!!!!!

Training HIGH INTENSITY 4 days/week is good.....M,Tue, Thu, Fri

Eliminate the breads, the pasta, the peanut butter, the red meats (unless very very lean).......Eat 6 small meals grabbing one protein and one carb from this list: Chicken, tuna, fish, egg whites, protein shakes etc...
potato,rice, greens, oatmeal, pickles, mustard, pepper, TONS OF WATER and a big PWO shake.......eat less carbs/more protein as the day gets later....


If you'd like---shoot me a PM--I can give you a comp diet that works......or you can do a search as there is tons on here......

I, personally think you are eating too much (hard to believe) to bring in your abs.......I would cut some cal's, bring in your abs and slowly increase your caloric intake each week as your body/metabolism gets used to it.....Pretty soon --you'll be taking in 3000+ cals and still keeping your abs.......


Good Luck bro....keep up the hard work......Add GH and T3 after you research...

 

[Joe Stenson]

Well I am having trouble staying below 10% so what do you recommend?

The thing about calorie cycling is this: it allows you to create a much bigger deficit than you otherwise would, without having an effect on your metabolism. I mean optimally we'd all love to be able to eat 1000 cals/day EVERY day and shed fat like crazy. Problem is it wouldn't take long for our metabolism to adjust and slow down like crazy.

I don't think you ever said how many calories you were currently eating (which could be part of the problem, you really should be counting), but let's assume 2000/day. Without even using a real calorie cycling protocol, think about what happens if twice a week you reduce your caloric intake to 1000/day. Boom! All of a sudden you've created an extra 2000 calorie deficit, over and above what you were already at. It takes about 3500 cals to lose 1lb of fat, so throw a bit of cardio in the mix and you're laughing. Also, one day isn't nearly enough time for that to seriously affect your metabolism OR lose muscle (just keep protein high).

Anyway, that wasn't a recommendation at all. If I had more time I could probably come up with an actual plan, but at least that gives you a little bit to go on. I'll try to add more tomorrow.

 

[borg4902]

Yea your definitally eating to much without some type of cardio. Something has to create the deficient.

 

[TraxZBT]

Krishna,

If you can be disciplined, you can do a standard competition diet and you will have abs in less than 10 weeks!!!!!!

You must do methodical boring cardio--like the bike at 70% for an hour EVERYDAY!!!!!

Training HIGH INTENSITY 4 days/week is good.....M,Tue, Thu, Fri

Eliminate the breads, the pasta, the peanut butter, the red meats (unless very very lean).......Eat 6 small meals grabbing one protein and one carb from this list: Chicken, tuna, fish, egg whites, protein shakes etc...
potato,rice, greens, oatmeal, pickles, mustard, pepper, TONS OF WATER and a big PWO shake.......eat less carbs/more protein as the day gets later....


If you'd like---shoot me a PM--I can give you a comp diet that works......or you can do a search as there is tons on here......

I, personally think you are eating too much (hard to believe) to bring in your abs.......I would cut some cal's, bring in your abs and slowly increase your caloric intake each week as your body/metabolism gets used to it.....Pretty soon --you'll be taking in 3000+ cals and still keeping your abs.......


Good Luck bro....keep up the hard work......Add GH and T3 after you research...

Question.... Cut out red meat because of the calories or just because of the fat content??.. I personally eat all kinds of meat in the AM with no carbs at all.. Just going by the whole insulin/fat regiman... no carbs/fat combos just fat/protein or protein carbed meals.

 

[borg4902]

As we speak there is 12 oz of 93% lean beef in front of my w/ 6 egg white and 1/2 cup brown rice. Im 2 weeks 3 days out.

 

[will b huge]

As we speak there is 12 oz of 93% lean beef in front of my w/ 6 egg white and 1/2 cup brown rice. Im 2 weeks 3 days out.

And this is perfect.....Cut out only the fat beef---I said to keep lean red meat.....

Also, with BORG's other post is exactly what I stated too.....too many cal's without cardio...etc....


Good Luck BORG---its crunch time---dont worry if the abs didnt come in yet, they will appear out of nowhere;;;like BANG---one morning you will wake up and be like HOLY SHIT---

TRUST ME==those 2 a day CARDIO sessions will pay off!!!!

 

[gymratforlife]

I am also stuck at around 10-12% bf and doing 2 hours a day of cardio.This is a very good post.Gona actally try the aproach of bringing calories way down 2 days a wek to keep metabolism high and burn maximum fat.

 

[Slydog]

And this is perfect.....Cut out only the fat beef---I said to keep lean red meat.....

Also, with BORG's other post is exactly what I stated too.....too many cal's without cardio...etc....


Good Luck BORG---its crunch time---dont worry if the abs didnt come in yet, they will appear out of nowhere;;;like BANG---one morning you will wake up and be like HOLY SHIT---

TRUST ME==those 2 a day CARDIO sessions will pay off!!!!

Dude, home boy's abs are already out.
Guys did anyone mention the fact that cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is optimum for fat loss. Also Krisha did you ever think of using HGH because it really is ideal for fat loss and would probably yeild tremendous results if used for at least 3-6 months. Also try speeding up your work outs (basically increase your intensity).
Your diet looks pretty good but I don't know your stats and I don't know how much your eating at each sitting.
Try consuming at least 50grams of protein per sitting and make sure your complex carbs and your veggies weigh the same.
For example:
9oz of chicken/red meat/fish with 4-6ozs of brown rice and 4-6ozs of broclli

 

[gymratforlife]

Dude, home boy's abs are already out.
Guys did anyone mention the fact that cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is optimum for fat loss. Also Krisha did you ever think of using HGH because it really is ideal for fat loss and would probably yeild tremendous results if used for at least 3-6 months. Also try speeding up your work outs (basically increase your intensity).
Your diet looks pretty good but I don't know your stats and I don't know how much your eating at each sitting.
Try consuming at least 50grams of protein per sitting and make sure your complex carbs and your veggies weigh the same.
For example:
9oz of chicken/red meat/fish with 4-6ozs of brown rice and 4-6ozs of broclli

Doing all of this already and at a sticking point.When I workout with freeweights before the cardio I sweat so much that it looks like I jumped in a pool with my clothes on and then I do an hour of cardio after this and burn 900 calories.Then I come back in the evening and do another 900cal and still the fat loss is really slow right now.

 

[borg4902]

Just give it time, there is nothing instant about bodybuilding. "Dude, home boy's abs are already out." Thatks bro!!!!! The abs now have veins btw.....In fact everything is starting to sprout veins like little roots everywhere. It freaks me out. I love it!!!!! LOL

 

[Joe Stenson]

Your diet looks pretty good but I don't know your stats and I don't know how much your eating at each sitting.
Try consuming at least 50grams of protein per sitting and make sure your complex carbs and your veggies weigh the same.
For example:
9oz of chicken/red meat/fish with 4-6ozs of brown rice and 4-6ozs of broclli

Why do the complex carbs and veggies have to weigh the same?

His diet looks good for someone STARTING a cut, but unless he has a really fast metabolism or is doing a ton of activity it's probably way too much food to get down to single digits. Hell, that diet looks pretty tasty. There's no way you should be enjoying a diet into single digit bodyfat .

 

[will b huge]

Just give it time, there is nothing instant about bodybuilding. "Dude, home boy's abs are already out." Thatks bro!!!!! The abs now have veins btw.....In fact everything is starting to sprout veins like little roots everywhere. It freaks me out. I love it!!!!! LOL

Thats great BORG!!! However, they will get much Deeper (Like a river)--you will get lots veins and your belly button will look like it is going to rip apart.....

If you are already this ripped like the fella suggest, then you are coming in way TOO early.........

They will end up looking something like this:



good luck bro.......

 

[gymratforlife]

Thats great BORG!!! However, they will get much Deeper (Like a river)--you will get lots veins and your belly button will look like it is going to rip apart.....

If you are already this ripped like the fella suggest, then you are coming in way TOO early.........

They will end up looking something like this:



good luck bro.......

Damn bro that picture is inspiration that I really need right now.

 

[wayneboard1]

Thats great BORG!!! However, they will get much Deeper (Like a river)--you will get lots veins and your belly button will look like it is going to rip apart.....

If you are already this ripped like the fella suggest, then you are coming in way TOO early.........

They will end up looking something like this:



good luck bro.......

wow, great pic. Good work bro!

 

[borg4902]

Non plat is, will ya. Geeze....lol

 

[will b huge]

wow, great pic. Good work bro!

That pic isn't me....(its a buddy of mine)----I was simply making a point of something that BORG's will look like when he steps on stage.....


Borg, I dont know how to show it any differently...if you had an email on file, I tried to send it to you but no email address for you.......If someone else knows how to show that pic to Borg.....please help him out....

Thanks....

 

[wayneboard1]

That pic isn't me....(its a buddy of mine)----I was simply making a point of something that BORG's will look like when he steps on stage.....

Oh...well regardless it's very impressive.

 

[will b huge]

Oh...well regardless it's very impressive.

LOL---YEA, but he didnt win......

 

[will b huge]

Damn bro that picture is inspiration that I really need right now.

Glad to hear----shit like that will definitely help keep you focused.......

 

[wayneboard1]

LOL---YEA, but he didnt win......

LOL...well that sucks.

 

[Prince77]

Krishna,

If you can be disciplined, you can do a standard competition diet and you will have abs in less than 10 weeks!!!!!!

You must do methodical boring cardio--like the bike at 70% for an hour EVERYDAY!!!!!

Training HIGH INTENSITY 4 days/week is good.....M,Tue, Thu, Fri

Eliminate the breads, the pasta, the peanut butter, the red meats (unless very very lean).......Eat 6 small meals grabbing one protein and one carb from this list: Chicken, tuna, fish, egg whites, protein shakes etc...
potato,rice, greens, oatmeal, pickles, mustard, pepper, TONS OF WATER and a big PWO shake.......eat less carbs/more protein as the day gets later....


If you'd like---shoot me a PM--I can give you a comp diet that works......or you can do a search as there is tons on here......

I, personally think you are eating too much (hard to believe) to bring in your abs.......I would cut some cal's, bring in your abs and slowly increase your caloric intake each week as your body/metabolism gets used to it.....Pretty soon --you'll be taking in 3000+ cals and still keeping your abs.......


Good Luck bro....keep up the hard work......Add GH and T3 after you research...

Good post. Also try these things:

try mixing in some interval cardio training. Run at a good enough pace to raise your heart rate for say four minutes, then sprint for two then repeat. This will allow for better fat loss and you can add some eplosive power to your phsique in this way.

Try a european approach to your workouts for a few weeks. Train heavy in the AM (4 sets of four reps) but no more than three exercises using olympic movements and then light PM ( 3 sets of 12-15 reps) with the same bodyparts using more bodybuilding type movements. Don't train any more than four days a week. Do cardio on the off days.

Examine your fats. Make sure you are getting enough and of the right types. It seems like there isn't mich fat in your diest other than saturated from animal proteins and some from peanut butter.

Try a casein protein at night instead of red meat

Try grinding up soem oats in your PW shake instead of dextrose. For 1/2 hour after your workout your body assimilates protein INDEPENDANTLY of carbs. The amino acids in the whey act as a catalyst. I can find some good info if you are interested. This will keep your blood sugar more even.

Definately create a calorie deficit like WillB said.

 

[will b huge]

Krishna,

If you can be disciplined, you can do a standard competition diet and you will have abs in less than 10 weeks!!!!!!

You must do methodical boring cardio--like the bike at 70% for an hour EVERYDAY!!!!!

Training HIGH INTENSITY 4 days/week is good.....M,Tue, Thu, Fri

Eliminate the breads, the pasta, the peanut butter, the red meats (unless very very lean).......Eat 6-8 small meals grabbing one protein and one carb from this list: Chicken, tuna, fish, egg whites, protein shakes etc...
potato,rice, greens, oatmeal, pickles, mustard, pepper, TONS OF WATER and a big PWO shake.......eat less carbs/more protein as the day gets later....


If you'd like---shoot me a PM--I can give you a comp diet that works......or you can do a search as there is tons on here......

I, personally think you are eating too much (hard to believe) to bring in your abs.......I would cut some cal's, bring in your abs and slowly increase your caloric intake each week as your body/metabolism gets used to it.....Pretty soon --you'll be taking in 3000+ cals and still keeping your abs.......


Good Luck bro....keep up the hard work......Add GH and T3 after you research...

Alright, the post I made above was just a quick post--(didn't expect so many PM's regarding diet)----you can do some simple searches and there is an ENTIRE FORUM dedicated to just diet issues-----but I will spread a little knowledge here real quick for whoever would like to read........

OK-here we go-regarding the above post, you MUST follow that post---6-8 small meals (or meal replacement shakes/bars) egg whites, chicken, tuna, fish, turkey, vinison, lean red meats-----brown rice, potato, rice cakes, oatmeal, pickles, green veggies, mustard, pepper, etc..etc..---you need to eliminate as much fats, sugars as possible---except omega 3 fats--(flax seed, salmon, etc..)---AND DRINK TONS OF WATER....AND GET TONS OF REST----REST IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! At least 8 hours......

Do cardio everyday (at least 6 days) for at least 45 minutes at 70% intensity....If you can go an hour (BETTER)---If you can do it in the morning on an empty stomach instead of another time--BETTER...

Train with very high intensity at least Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri......use PWO shake after every workout as close to workout end as you can.....throw in malto, dextr to spike blood glucose and take R-ala to help the insulin shuttle it all into the muscles....


I could go on and on, but ask some questions if you'd like---Id be happy to answer........


Here are some good tips from here:

The Competition Diet is probably the most difficult part of contest preparation. A workout may last an hour or two but dieting is 24 hours a day. You must have willpower if you intend to be successful at this. It is also expensive. Quality food, protein powders, MRP's (meal replacements) and supplements add up quickly so be prepared. The ultimate goal of the Competition Diet is to loose the maximum amount of bodyfat while maintaining the maximum amount of lean muscle mass.
When do you start the diet? This depends largely on your body composition and the date of the competition. It is always a good idea to have your bodyfat checked by an experienced practitioner. The most accurate results are obtained from water-immersion however fat-calipers are accurate when done properly. Most bodybuilders will begin dieting 8 to 12 weeks out from the competition date. Others will find 4 to 6 weeks to be sufficient. It is important to monitor your progress daily, especially in the final weeks. If you are not losing fat at an acceptable pace then increase your cardio. If possible, do your cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, as this will force your body to burn stored calories. This practice alone can yield dramatic results. As a rule however, try to let the diet do the cutting and do not rely too much on cardio. The last week of the diet is a crapshoot and many competitors experiment at this stage. Fat loading, carb loading, sodium loading and depletion are all tricks of the trade. Each of these is intended to increase muscle density and fullness while offering maximum vascularity. This is known as "Peaking". Peak condition can only be maintained for a very short period of time, therefore it is critical that peak condition be reached during the competition (ideally the morning show which is also known as Pre-Judging). Any miscalculations and you may peak the day before or after the show. It is a tragic to see a bodybuilder who has trained and dieted consistently in a ripped and vascular condition on Friday only to have the same competitor come in flat and smooth on Saturday.

Here is a typical week of diet to get that last bit of fat out:

Monday:

Food:
A minimum of 6 small meals. All meals will contain protein from a variety of sources. Complex, high fiber carbs until 2:00 in the afternoon, protein only from 2:00 on. Try to eat every 2 hours.
Water:
1 to 2 gallons of sodium free water.
Supplement: 5 grams of L-Glutamine 4 times daily.

Tuesday: Same as above.

Wednesday

Food:
Same as Monday however carbs should be reduced slightly. Absolutely no refined flour, rice, sugar, etc. Good sources of carbs are yams (no butter), celery, carrots, leafy green lettuce and similar vegetables.
Water:
Take in up to 3 gallons of water.
Supplement:
Potassium tablet 4 times daily. 5 grams of L-Glutamine 4 times daily.

Thursday

Food:
Same as Wednesday however sodium should be cut dramatically. Read labels, nearly everything contains sodium. Do your shopping in advance to be ready for this time. To be sure of low sodium I will boil chicken breast in distilled water at this time and use no condiments containing salt.
Water:
Try to take in 2 gallons.
Supplement:
Potassium tablet 4 times daily. 5 grams of L-Glutamine 4 times daily.

Friday

Food:
Same as Thursday with extra careful attention to sodium. Keep this as low as possible.
Water:
Reduce water to ½ gallon taken between morning and 6:00 PM. Sip sparingly and only as needed from 6:00 PM on.
Supplement:
Potassium tablet 4 times daily. 5 grams of L-Glutamine 4 times daily.

Saturday

Food:
Very small meals only. No sodium. Many competitors will take raw honey and natural peanut butter back stage with them for quick energy and muscle fullness.
Water
Sip only as needed, not too much and never gulp. By now you should be dropping water like crazy. Your abs should be very defined, muscular definition and vascularity should be very high. This is a very delicate balance. Do not try anything new at this point to alter this condition.


SUPPLEMENTS:

PROTEIN POWDER:. The protein requirements of a bodybuilder vastly exceed those of the sedentary public. You are constantly taxing your muscles by diet and training and must insure that the proper nutrient balance is available for recovery and growth. Protein Powder is just that. Protein. As a competitive bodybuilder, aim for 1 ½ to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight per day. Others will contend that it is per pound of "lean body weight". Nevertheless, Protein Powder is a must for any bodybuilder, especially while in competition mode.



MEAL REPLACEMENTS POWDERS (MRP): As the name implies, MRP's are taken instead of a meal, neither with or in between. A typical meal replacement drink is a balanced meal in itself. Met-Rx is one of the more popular replacements on the market but there are many others. MRP's typically come in pre-measured packets that you mix in a blender with water or milk. They are nutritionally balanced to meet the nutrient requirements of an entire meal with heavy emphasis on protein. One MRP, 2 bananas, a heaping tablespoon of natural peanut butter, 4 to 5 scoops of Whey Protein and enough water and ice to make a half gallon drink. This yields nearly 150 grams of protein in a delicious drink that will last until just after noon. While dieting for competition, never leave home without a MRP near by. They offer a convenient, high protein/low fat alternative to fast food.




FAT BURNERS: Fat Burners are compounds, often plant derived, which effect metabolism by increasing thermogenesis (the production of body heat). Most fat burners on the market are ephedrine based however there are a few that take a different approach. Ephedrine by itself is an effective thermogenic aid however when combined with caffeine there is a synergistic increase in the effects of both. In other words, the combined effect is greater than the sum of the separate compounds. The most popular thermogenics stack on the market is known as the ECA stack



E-Ephedrine

C-Caffeine

A-Aspirin



Taken together, these ingredients work synergistically to increase metabolism and accelerate fat loss at a substantially higher rate then when taken separately. Many supplement manufactures market products under a wide variety of names but in the fine print you will usually find the ECA stack. a newer thermogenic and is based on Norephedrine. This product is also effective and may be more easily tolerated by some individuals than the ephedrine-based supplements. Regardless of the type of thermogenic used however, always get the advise of your physician. Also, never use these supplements in the evening, as they will probably keep you awake well into the night.

Contest preparation is difficult enough and the diet is brutal. An effective fat burner is a highly recommended ally in your quest for muscular definition.



L-Glutamine: L-Glutamine is an essential amino acid which is very important to bodybuilders because it has a muscle sparing effect after intense physical stress. Roughly 60% of free-form amino acids floating in skeletal muscles is L-glutamine. After an intense workout, glutamine levels in the body are reduced by as much as 50%. Supplementing with L-Glutamine may help body builders reduce the amount of muscle deterioration that occurs because other tissues that need glutamine will not rob the glutamine stored in the muscle cells. While preparing for a competition, L-Glutamine may tip the balance of the fat/muscle loss ratio in your favor.

We could literally go on and on.....Ask BORG--as he is well into his comp. diet right now.....and everyone is different....but the basic guidelines here will take you to 6% bodyfat rather easily(with extreme dedication) and rather quickly......and soon to have ABS like these here:

 

[borg4902]

To be sure of low sodium I will boil chicken breast in distilled water at this time and use no condiments containing salt.
Ausome idea!!!!!!!!! Excited about this one.
There is no way I will peak early. My love handles have love handles. Everything else is sick though. I wish those bastards would just disapear already!

 

[Joe Stenson]

OK-here we go-regarding the above post, you MUST follow that post---6-8 small meals (or meal replacement shakes/bars) egg whites, chicken, tuna, fish, turkey, vinison, lean red meats-----brown rice, potato, rice cakes, oatmeal, pickles, green veggies, mustard, pepper, etc..etc..---you need to eliminate as much fats, sugars as possible---except omega 3 fats--(flax seed, salmon, etc)

Why shouldn't you eat fat?

Why do you NEED 6-8 meals?

 

[borg4902]

Unhealthy fats will, make you fat. By eating 6-8 meals your metabolism will stay at its highest throught the day therefore burning maximum calories.

 

[Slydog]

To be sure of low sodium I will boil chicken breast in distilled water at this time and use no condiments containing salt.
Ausome idea!!!!!!!!! Excited about this one.
There is no way I will peak early. My love handles have love handles. Everything else is sick though. I wish those bastards would just disapear already!

Borg,
Your not boiling your chicken yet are you? Too early bro, don't sweat the handles, those are the last to go and they'll hang around until the last week. It's really not even fat that is where we all (us men) hold water. Once you start your diuertics the lower back and handles tighten right up.
Will b huge is right, Don't peak too early bro, you'll be amazed at the amount of water and sometimes muscle you lose over that last week (especially if you peak too early). Losing water good/ muscle bad.
My first contest I was 234lbs on Sunday before the contest. I stepped on stage at 210lb (I still won but holy shit I lost a lot of muscle) please don't make the same mistake. I basically peaked 3 weeks before the contest. Won't make that mistake again.
Right now I'm 245lbs( I lost 5lbs in a week I went from 4.9% to 4% even, so I lost about 2.5lbs of fat and 2lbs of muscle ) and I plan on actually gaining weight over the next week and then dialing in over that last week. I have a fast metabolism so I can drop a lot of fat in a short period of time. This shit is all a science, fucking crazy bro.

 

[Joe Stenson]

Unhealthy fats will, make you fat. By eating 6-8 meals your metabolism will stay at its highest throught the day therefore burning maximum calories.

Consuming more calories than you need will make you fat, doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from.

Studies have been done showing there is zero difference in fat loss between eating 3 meals vs. 6 or more, as long as calories are kept constant. Eating more meals just helps to control appetite.

 

[gymratforlife]

Consuming more calories than you need will make you fat, doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from.

Studies have been done showing there is zero difference in fat loss between eating 3 meals vs. 6 or more, as long as calories are kept constant. Eating more meals just helps to control appetite.

I dont think this makes much sence though.Your saying that its the same to split 3000 calories in 3 1000 calories as to split it in 6 500 calorie meals?

 

[borg4902]

Consuming more calories than you need will make you fat, doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from.
Yea get a clue. Incorect info. Ludacris actually.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I dont think this makes much sence though.Your saying that its the same to split 3000 calories in 3 1000 calories as to split it in 6 500 calorie meals?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. In both cases you are consuming 3000 calories, which may be under, at, or over maintenance, but in all cases, it's the same number.

Smaller meals lead to MORE metabolism boosts, while larger meals lead to LARGER metabolism boosts. Everything works out to be the same.

Consuming more calories than you need will make you fat, doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from.
Yea get a clue. Incorect info. Ludacris actually.

So, if your maintenance calories were 2000 and you consumed 2500 cals of ALL protein, you wouldn't get fat? Ok, buddy. I'll go get my clue now .

I swear, I said it in another thread too, Elite's a great board for discussing cycles and training, but when it comes to diet you can throw a dart and hit a more informative board than this. No one seems to know what they're talking about, and when some new information is presented responses like "you're an idiot" or "you have no idea what you're talking about" are quite common. No one is ever able to explain their position so insults come out.

Tell me, why can't you get fat from eating too much protein, or too many carbs? Each macronutrient is a source of energy, ie. calories. They perform different functions in the body, but when it comes to weight gain or loss, they're all just units of energy.

If you want to argue that dietary fat can be stored as fat MORE EASILY than carbs or protein, that's fine. But statements like "bad fat makes you fat" show a complete lack of knowledge.

 

[will b huge]

Unhealthy fats will, make you fat. By eating 6-8 meals your metabolism will stay at its highest throught the day therefore burning maximum calories.

EXACTLY BORG---100%

 

[Joe Stenson]

EXACTLY BORG---100%

Both of those statements are bodybuilding nutrition myths.

 

[gymratforlife]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. In both cases you are consuming 3000 calories, which may be under, at, or over maintenance, but in all cases, it's the same number.

Smaller meals lead to MORE metabolism boosts, while larger meals lead to LARGER metabolism boosts. Everything works out to be the same.



So, if your maintenance calories were 2000 and you consumed 2500 cals of ALL protein, you wouldn't get fat? Ok, buddy. I'll go get my clue now .

I swear, I said it in another thread too, Elite's a great board for discussing cycles and training, but when it comes to diet you can throw a dart and hit a more informative board than this. No one seems to know what they're talking about, and when some new information is presented responses like "you're an idiot" or "you have no idea what you're talking about" are quite common. No one is ever able to explain their position so insults come out.

Tell me, why can't you get fat from eating too much protein, or too many carbs? Each macronutrient is a source of energy, ie. calories. They perform different functions in the body, but when it comes to weight gain or loss, they're all just units of energy.

If you want to argue that dietary fat can be stored as fat MORE EASILY than carbs or protein, that's fine. But statements like "bad fat makes you fat" show a complete lack of knowledge.

I did not insult you bro i am sorry if you took it that way but I do believe that you are a LOT better off spliting those 3000 calories in 6 smaller meals than in 3 big ones.The reason being that your body will have a much easier time absorbing 500 calories for muscle tissue repair and Glycogen stores in 3 hours than it would with 1000 calories.I tend to believe that with 1000 calories you are more likely to have overspill and have a pretty good portion of it stored as fat.Also it makes more sense to digest food in smaller portions through out the day than just digest 3 huge amounts 3 times a day.I could be wrong though none of this stuff is ever written in stone,if it was wed all look like Ronie Coleman right?

 

[will b huge]

Consuming more calories than you need will make you fat, doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from.

Yea get a clue. Incorect info. Ludacris actually.

Borg, Agreed 1000% as every bodybuilder or anyone with common sense already knows.....This bro CLEARLY HAS NO CLUE WHATSOEVER!!!!

6+ smaller meals a day is TONS BETTER THAN 3 LARGE ONES---Will keep your metabolism pumping!!!!!!


JOE STENSON, let me help you see the light.........

You said that if someone is eating 3000 cals---it doesnt matter if its 6 meals or whatever----3000 cals is 3000 cals........

THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG--TRY A DIET THAT YOU EAT 6-8 MEALS WITH A TOTAL OF 3000 CALS; THEN TRY A DIET WHERE YOU SIT DOWN 1 MEAL AND EAT 3000 CALS-----PLEASE TELL US WHAT HAPPENS----(if the same result happens--I'LL pay you $1000)


You said that it doesnt matter what macronutrient cals come from--its when you eat above your maintenance that will make you fat, you said if your maintenance is 2000 cals and if you ate 2500 of all protein--you would get fat--------

ALSO COMPLETELY WRONG----
AGAIN, PLEASE TRY A DIET OF 2500 CALS OF ALL PROTEIN, THEN TRY A DIET OF 2000 CALS OF TWINKIES-----(if the result is 2500 makes you fatter--I WILL PAY YOU $1000)


Joe, You have clearly never dieted for bodybuilding,

 

[borg4902]

What did I ever say about cal consumption?????? No shit eating more than maintenence will make you fat. Eat 3000 cals of pure fat and see what you look like.
"doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from."

 

[Joe Stenson]

I did not insult you bro i am sorry if you took it that way but I do believe that you are a LOT better off spliting those 3000 calories in 6 smaller meals than in 3 big ones.The reason being that your body will have a much easier time absorbing 500 calories for muscle tissue repair and Glycogen stores in 3 hours than it would with 1000 calories.I tend to believe that with 1000 calories you are more likely to have overspill and have a pretty good portion of it stored as fat.Also it makes more sense to digest food in smaller portions through out the day than just digest 3 huge amounts 3 times a day.I could be wrong though none of this stuff is ever written in stone,if it was wed all look like Ronie Coleman right?

No offense taken.

There ARE benefits to eating more frequent meals. However, none of them apply to fat loss (given calories are kept constant), and the main supposed benefit of it being better for your metabolism is a myth.

I eat more than 3 meals/day. Why? Because I'd be absolutely starving if I had to wait 6-7 hours between meals and because, depending on how many calories you need to be consuming per day, it might be very tough to get them all in 3 meals. Am I under the false impression that this is somehow keeping me leaner than only eating 3 meals would? Nope.

 

[DieselGunz]

Will B Huge


Great posts, thanx again for the help

K to you!

excellent thread peeps

 

[Joe Stenson]

6+ smaller meals a day is TONS BETTER THAN 3 LARGE ONES---Will keep your metabolism pumping!!!!!!

You clearly have not seen the study I mentioned.

You said that if someone is eating 3000 cals---it doesnt matter if its 6 meals or whatever----3000 cals is 3000 cals........

THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG--TRY A DIET THAT YOU EAT 6-8 MEALS WITH A TOTAL OF 3000 CALS; THEN TRY A DIET WHERE YOU SIT DOWN 1 MEAL AND EAT 3000 CALS-----PLEASE TELL US WHAT HAPPENS----(if the same result happens--I'LL pay you $1000)

The study looked at 3 meals vs. 6. General concensus is that 3 meals is the minimum for there to be no difference in metabolism. 1 meal would be worse, so you're right there.

You said that it doesnt matter what macronutrient cals come from--its when you eat above your maintenance that will make you fat, you said if your maintenance is 2000 cals and if you ate 2500 of all protein--you would get fat--------

ALSO COMPLETELY WRONG----
AGAIN, PLEASE TRY A DIET OF 2500 CALS OF ALL PROTEIN, THEN TRY A DIET OF 2000 CALS OF TWINKIES-----(if the result is 2500 makes you fatter--I WILL PAY YOU $1000)

Great. Use a completely bogus example to "prove me wrong" .

Yes, you would get "fatter" eating a diet consisting only of Twinkies. Why? Because you'd lose LBM (given you wouldn't be consuming sufficient protein). So, you'd be recompositioning yourself in an unfavourable way. In effect, you'd be trading muscle for fat, while not really having your weight change, so your bodyfat percentage would rise.

A 500 calorie surplus from pure protein would still lead to weight gain, but you definitely would not lose any muscle, and if you were working out at the same time, most of the weight would be LBM. A 500 calorie surplus from pure protein is probably not large enough to contribute to fat gain, but try something like a 1500 calorie surplus. And yes, that would be 875g of protein/day. Stupid example? Yes, but no more stupid than eating a diet consisting of only twinkies.

 

[Joe Stenson]

What did I ever say about cal consumption?????? No shit eating more than maintenence will make you fat. Eat 3000 cals of pure fat and see what you look like.
"doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from."

You're not thinking about this logically. Of course, eating 3000 calories from pure fat you would look like shit. Let me give you a more reasonable example:

200lb bodybuilder, maintenance calories = 3000

Give this guy 300g protein (1.5 x bodyweight so clearly adequate) = 1200 calories. Then give him 100g fat from some lousy fat like butter; this = 900 calories. That's all this guy is eating. Thus, he's in a 900 calorie deficit/day, or a 6300 calorie deficit/week. Not only will this guy not gain fat, he will actually LOSE fat, and quite a decent amount at that.

Point being, quit using retarded examples. The statement you made was "bad fat will make you fat". This is false, and I just gave an example to prove it. Of course, eating 500g of fat every day is a bad idea; no one ever suggested that though.

And to both you and will b huge, the example diets you have provided are fine. However it would be a lot better if you presented them as "here is something that I have found to work for me" or "here is an example of how one could approach fat loss". Don't make absolute statements like "you have to do this" or "bad fat will lead to fat gain". I can guarantee you don't HAVE to follow that diet will b huge laid out to get ripped. You can, and I'm sure it will work, but you don't HAVE to.

 

[borg4902]

"You said that if someone is eating 3000 cals---it doesnt matter if its 6 meals or whatever----3000 cals is 3000 cals........"

He used that example because you said 3000 cals is 3000 cals retard. And why are you still talking about surplus cals that was never an issue for anyone in this thread. You are just trying to change the subject. Diet and just eat 3 meals a day and see how far you get ok. Let me know how long you last.

 

[Joe Stenson]

"You said that if someone is eating 3000 cals---it doesnt matter if its 6 meals or whatever----3000 cals is 3000 cals........"

He used that example because you said 3000 cals is 3000 cals retard. And why are you still talking about surplus cals that was never an issue for anyone in this thread. You are just trying to change the subject. Diet and just eat 3 meals a day and see how far you get ok. Let me know how long you last.

That was in reference to metabolism, "retard". 3000 cals in 3 meals is the same as 3000 cals in 6 meals. I figured it was a given that we were talking about eating the same foods in these meals...guess not.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Someone presents a different viewpoint and insults come out. Read my last post. I said specifically the diet will b huge gave is fine. It's just the way he posted it that's WAY too definitive, like "THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO"; obviously this is not the case. If you're under the impression that there is only one method to diet for a contest, then I feel for you.

 

[borg4902]

Diet and just eat 3 meals a day and see how far you get ok. Let me know how long you last.

There is nothing more I need to say here^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Joe Stenson]

Diet and just eat 3 meals a day and see how far you get ok. Let me know how long you last.

There is nothing more I need to say here^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nope. You've already proven you're either illiterate or very stubborn.

 

[borg4902]

Dude post a poll about and we'll see ok.
Which is better for cutting 3 meals or 6.
Do it.

 

[krishna]

Thanks for all the replies fellas. I am doing cardio by the way. In the morning I speed walk for about 2 miles (would run or jog but my joints can't take it), and I do 20-30 min of high intensity cardio at night after my work-out. I'll be moving closer to my gym at the end of the month so I'm gonna hit up more am cardio on an empty stomach. So I should cut my cals?

 

[borg4902]

How many are you taking in now?

 

[Joe Stenson]

Dude post a poll about and we'll see ok.
Which is better for cutting 3 meals or 6.
Do it.

That won't prove anything because people are all brainwashed by the muscle magazines like yourself. "Fat makes you fat", "more meals = faster metabolism", "don't combine fat and carbs in the same meal"...what was once common knowledge about 5 years ago has all been proven wrong since then.

But here you go, as pertains to eating more, smaller meals:

Benefits: less chance of being overly hungry, better chance of getting all your calories in for the day if you're bulking

Drawbacks: can need more preparation time, more of a hassle to be eating every couple of hours if you're busy, very good chance of being ravenously hungry by the time you get to your meal (thus leading to you overeating, and *dun dun dun* being in a caloric excess for the day)

So, like I've said over and over again (in this thread and others) the main reason for eating more frequently is: APPETITE CONTROL. Why is this important? So you don't overeat.

It's not as complicated as people make it out to be.

 

[van_wilder]

Nope. You've already proven you're either illiterate or very stubborn.

I've actually read the study that Joe is talking about... it did state that eating 6 meals or 3 meals as long as totals consisted of the same macronutrient breakdown and the same total calories showed no difference in metabolism. Whether or not this is true...(I'm skeptical of the study as I read a summary rather than the study itself and have forgotten about it to this point...i'll try and find the real study but I was under the impression that this study would not apply to bodybuilding for some reason) i think is irrelevant... i think it's important to eat 6-8 smaller meals especially if you are taking in high amounts of PRO because your body cannot digest too much PRO in one sitting. I think it's better to spread out your meals if for no other reason to keep blood AA levels a little more constant and to effectively digest PROs.
VW

 

[Joe Stenson]

Thanks for all the replies fellas. I am doing cardio by the way. In the morning I speed walk for about 2 miles (would run or jog but my joints can't take it), and I do 20-30 min of high intensity cardio at night after my work-out. I'll be moving closer to my gym at the end of the month so I'm gonna hit up more am cardio on an empty stomach. So I should cut my cals?

High-intensity cardio after a workout can be quite catabolic. It would be best if you could do this as a separate session.

The morning cardio looks good. Just try to slowly increase the distance you are going.

You probably don't need to do more cardio AND decrease cals. Do one or the other first, and then the other as needed.

 

[krishna]

How many are you taking in now?

I posted my diet up on this thread....I'd say it's about 3300.

 

[Joe Stenson]

i think it's important to eat 6-8 smaller meals especially if you are taking in high amounts of PRO because your body cannot digest too much PRO in one sitting. I think it's better to spread out your meals if for no other reason to keep blood AA levels a little more constant and to effectively digest PROs.
VW

The amount of protein one can digest in a sitting is debateable as well, but I suppose you could throw that into the "benefits" I mentioned above.

In any event, thank-you for presenting a legitimate argument for eating 6-8 smaller meals and for choosing the words "I think" to begin your thought, as opposed to spewing out unsubstantiated claims and insults.

 

[borg4902]

When did I ever say this is what you have to do. The point of starting a tread is to get others opinions. I'd LOVE to see a pic of you btw. I have a feeling it would be ammusing.

 

[van_wilder]

When did I ever say this is what you have to do. The point of starting a tread is to get others opinions. I'd LOVE to see a pic of you btw. I have a feeling it would be ammusing.

First of all... you have to take everything posted on these forums for what they are worth...which isn't much. I find this forum is an invaluable resource as a starting point but I would never take anyone's advice without doing more research. I've never seen a pic of Joe but I do have a lot of respect for his posts because he isn't afraid of opposing the norm around here.

and on that note... if we were to assign credibility based on pics, sorry to say it but you'd be in the shits... I was disspointed with your pics. I don't think you have a physique that couldn't be attained naturally. Just my opinion and no offense intended. K to you anyhow as I judge by the quality of posts here and you do add valued knowledge to these boards which I appreciate.
VW
(oops... must spread before hitting you again... next time!)

 

[Joe Stenson]

When did I ever say this is what you have to do. The point of starting a tread is to get others opinions. I'd LOVE to see a pic of you btw. I have a feeling it would be ammusing.

will b huge's post came off as saying "this is what you have to do". My beef with your post is that you said:

Unhealthy fats will, make you fat. By eating 6-8 meals your metabolism will stay at its highest throught the day therefore burning maximum calories.

Both of those are stated as though they are fact. Neither are correct, and I pointed out why in both cases.

And I also said if you wish to eat a low-fat diet, utilizing 6-8 meals/day, to get ripped then be my guest. It will work; so will other diets.

I don't think you would be that amused by a pic of me. I am the same height as you, weigh more, am not as lean (as I'm not dieting for a show), and am younger. Nothing overly amusing there.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I've never seen a pic of Joe but I do have a lot of respect for his posts because he isn't afraid of opposing the norm around here.

Thank-you. K to you.

You'll notice that in most of my posts I never say "my way is best...do it my way or fail". I spend a lot of time not only in the gym, but doing a lot of reading, and just like to play devil's advocate as it's almost always the case that there isn't a "best" way of doing things...even though people like to think their way is best.

and on that note... if we were to assign credibility based on pics, sorry to say it but you'd be in the shits... I was just as dissapointed with your pics as I was with Satch.

You can see borg has been working very hard on his contest diet and the weekly progress he's been making is actually quite good. That being said, I agree that I wouldn't be calling people out if I looked like him.

 

[van_wilder]

You'll notice that in most of my posts I never say "my way is best...do it my way or fail". I spend a lot of time not only in the gym, but doing a lot of reading, and just like to play devil's advocate as it's almost always the case that there isn't a "best" way of doing things...even though people like to think their way is best.

Agreed. That is the greatest value a forum can provide. It's not about cut and paste the norm. Enough said.


You can see borg has been working very hard on his contest diet and the weekly progress he's been making is actually quite good. That being said, I agree that I wouldn't be calling people out if I looked like him.

Agreed. I never said that he didn't have a good physique. I never said that I don't respect he's weekly progress as it has been great.

 

[borg4902]

I never said I looked better than the next guy. Ive just seen to many "This is how you get huge posts" posted up by stringbeens is all.
I know how to diet, and do have the pics to prove that. I never said I was big, and try to get to sub 4%#'s naturally and keep decent size. The last pics I posted were 3 weeks out by the way. Satch looked like shit. I am not done, please save your comments for the final product. I at least deserve that.

 

[Joe Stenson]

I never said I looked better than the next guy. Ive just seen to many "This is how you get huge posts" posted up by stringbeens is all.
I know how to diet, and do have the pics to prove that. I never said I was big, and try to get to sub 4%#'s naturally and keep decent size. The last pics I posted were 3 weeks out by the way. Satch looked like shit. I am not done, please save your comments for the final product. I at least deserve that.

Fair enough, and I wish you all the best in your competition.

 

[borg4902]

Thank you!

 

[van_wilder]

I never said I looked better than the next guy. Ive just seen to many "This is how you get huge posts" posted up by stringbeens is all.
I know how to diet, and do have the pics to prove that. I never said I was big, and try to get to sub 4%#'s naturally and keep decent size. The last pics I posted were 3 weeks out by the way. Satch looked like shit. I am not done, please save your comments for the final product. I at least deserve that.

Agreed. you're 100% right bro. I never meant any disrespect. I don't think it's possible to get sub 4% naturally and keep decent size. and as i've said you are doing a great job with the diet.
VW

 

[will b huge]

What did I ever say about cal consumption?????? No shit eating more than maintenence will make you fat. Eat 3000 cals of pure fat and see what you look like.
"doesn't matter what macronutrient they come from."

Borg--was talking about JOE STENSON....not you......

Eating more than maintenance if its ALL SOLID PROTEIN will make you more MUSCULAR!!!!---That is how you build muscle, not even to mention how many cals during BULKING>.......

Borg--I agreed with all of your posts in here and still can't find any bit of SENSE in any of JOE STENSON's.........



OH WELL, gotta get back to my diet......Good Luck

 

[Joe Stenson]

Eating more than maintenance if its ALL SOLID PROTEIN will make you more MUSCULAR!!!!---That is how you build muscle, not even to mention how many cals during BULKING>.......

You can only build so much muscle in a given period of time. If you're taking in a surplus of calories over what you need (with what you "need" defined by maintenance + the surplus required for muscular growth) then those calories will go to fat. And at THIS point, it doesn't matter what macronutrient those calories come from. Surely you understand that?

I mean, if this wasn't the case, you'd have guys eating 1000+g of protein/day. Of course, that's not very practical and your digestive tract wouldn't like you very much, but lots of guys would be doing it anyway.

 

[will b huge]

You're not thinking about this logically. Of course, eating 3000 calories from pure fat you would look like shit. Let me give you a more reasonable example:

200lb bodybuilder, maintenance calories = 3000

Give this guy 300g protein (1.5 x bodyweight so clearly adequate) = 1200 calories. Then give him 100g fat from some lousy fat like butter; this = 900 calories. That's all this guy is eating. Thus, he's in a 900 calorie deficit/day, or a 6300 calorie deficit/week. Not only will this guy not gain fat, he will actually LOSE fat, and quite a decent amount at that.

Point being, quit using retarded examples. The statement you made was "bad fat will make you fat". This is false, and I just gave an example to prove it. Of course, eating 500g of fat every day is a bad idea; no one ever suggested that though.

And to both you and will b huge, the example diets you have provided are fine. However it would be a lot better if you presented them as "here is something that I have found to work for me" or "here is an example of how one could approach fat loss". Don't make absolute statements like "you have to do this" or "bad fat will lead to fat gain". I can guarantee you don't HAVE to follow that diet will b huge laid out to get ripped. You can, and I'm sure it will work, but you don't HAVE to.

YOU'LL NEVER LEARN.....That guy will NEVER GET HIS ABS IN with 100g/900 CALS of FAT BUTTER (nearly half of his calories)-----------GET A CLUE!!!

Also, macronutrients AREN'T THE SAME----QUIT SAYING CALs are CALS----THERE NOT!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW CARBS TRANSFER TO BLOOD GLUCOSE AND blood glucose rises which causes a large insulin release which will then be shuttled into your muscles (IF DIETING, EXERCISING, SUPPLEMENTING PROPERLY)---Keeping your body in an ANABOLIC STATE!!!!!



FURTHERMORE----(TO PUT AN END TO THIS STUPID ARGUMENT OF YOURS)-------

Joe Stenson (who has been a member for a couple years now)------WHO DO YOU HAVE THE MOST RESPECT FOR THEIR KNOWLEDGE OUT OF ANYONE WHO'S EVER BEEN ON THIS BOARD AT ELITEFITNESS-----

RADAR?????


JENETIC?????


PLEASE ASK THEM ABOUT YOUR THEORIES----AND THEY WILL GIVE YOU A CLUE-------

I am all done looking at your completely wrong posts, when you dont know what you are talking about.......


How can you sit there knowing there are bro's in need of serious help and are looking for vital information for their diet----AND YOUR HERE SAYING YOU CAN EAT 1100 cals/protein and 900 cals/FAT BUTTER and LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!!!
CMON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn kids....

WHERE IS RADAR WHEN YOU NEED HIM----ONE OF THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE MEN YOU WILL EVER LEARN FROM--------Please see his picture in his signature----that is him when he was 49 years old--------He would blow away guys competing in their 20's.........


again, proper comp diets will bring your abs in like this:

 

[borg4902]

Hey WillBe, I didnt know you were dieting...Just cutting up 4 summer or what?

 

[Joe Stenson]

First of all, will, aren't you in your 30's? Is it not possible to type like it? Capitals are EMPHASIS; it's tough reading your posts because they seem so animated.

YOU'LL NEVER LEARN.....That guy will NEVER GET HIS ABS IN with 100g/900 CALS of FAT BUTTER (nearly half of his calories)-----------GET A CLUE!!!

You obviously do not understand basic nutrition and human physiology. Fat cannot just be created out of nothing; it is stored energy. If you're in a 900 calorie deficit/day (a 6300 cal deficit for the week, which is huge!!!!!) you will not store fat. How can you? Where is the energy coming from? You're not even supplying your body what it needs and you're somehow expecting it to begin STORING energy?

How can you sit there knowing there are bro's in need of serious help and are looking for vital information for their diet----AND YOUR HERE SAYING YOU CAN EAT 1100 cals/protein and 900 cals/FAT BUTTER and LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!!!
CMON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nowhere did I actually recommend following such a diet. It was merely an illustration in response to borg's comment "bad fat will make you fat", that demonstrated clearly (to everyone but yourself) that this statement is not always true.

I would never actually tell someone to eat 900 calories of butter. I would never even recommend eating any butter at all for that matter. But there's a difference between what I consider optimal and other diets that have the potential to work. Eating 300g of protein and 900 calories of crap (from whatever source) will allow one to comfortably lose body fat, while retaining LBM assuming one's maintenance is 3000 calories. If it did not, it would be in complete violation of the law of thermodynamics.

I like to simplify things most of the time and say if cals in are less than cals out, one will lose weight. Well, it is a little bit more complicated than that, but the example I gave in this instance is extremely clear-cut because the deficit is so large.

Honestly, when reading other people's posts you need to sit back and let them sit in before posting. Every time you post it's a complete overreaction to something based on a lack of comprehension on your part. I know krishna never thought I was recommending a diet filled with butter, and so did everyone else...except you.

Now, if you'd like to give an intelligent, well thought-out response as to why someone will not lose fat in a 6300 calorie/week deficit GIVEN ADEQUATE PROTEIN INTAKE, I'm all ears. If it's going to be another 12-year old style rant then I'd advise you to keep it to yourself because you're only making yourself look less and less knowledgeable with each subsequent post.

 

[will b huge]

Originally Posted by Joe Stenson
You're not thinking about this logically. Of course, eating 3000 calories from pure fat you would look like shit. Let me give you a more reasonable example:

200lb bodybuilder, maintenance calories = 3000

Give this guy 300g protein (1.5 x bodyweight so clearly adequate) = 1200 calories. Then give him 100g fat from some lousy fat like butter; this = 900 calories. That's all this guy is eating. Thus, he's in a 900 calorie deficit/day, or a 6300 calorie deficit/week. Not only will this guy not gain fat, he will actually LOSE fat, and quite a decent amount at that.

Point being, quit using retarded examples. The statement you made was "bad fat will make you fat". This is false, and I just gave an example to prove it. Of course, eating 500g of fat every day is a bad idea; no one ever suggested that though.

And to both you and will b huge, the example diets you have provided are fine. However it would be a lot better if you presented them as "here is something that I have found to work for me" or "here is an example of how one could approach fat loss". Don't make absolute statements like "you have to do this" or "bad fat will lead to fat gain". I can guarantee you don't HAVE to follow that diet will b huge laid out to get ripped. You can, and I'm sure it will work, but you don't HAVE to.




YOU'LL NEVER LEARN.....That guy will NEVER GET HIS ABS IN with 100g/900 CALS of FAT BUTTER (nearly half of his calories)-----------GET A CLUE!!!

Also, macronutrients AREN'T THE SAME----QUIT SAYING CALs are CALS----THERE NOT!!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW CARBS TRANSFER TO BLOOD GLUCOSE AND blood glucose rises which causes a large insulin release which will then be shuttled into your muscles (IF DIETING, EXERCISING, SUPPLEMENTING PROPERLY)---Keeping your body in an ANABOLIC STATE!!!!!



FURTHERMORE----(TO PUT AN END TO THIS STUPID ARGUMENT OF YOURS)-------

Joe Stenson (who has been a member for a couple years now)------WHO DO YOU HAVE THE MOST RESPECT FOR THEIR KNOWLEDGE OUT OF ANYONE WHO'S EVER BEEN ON THIS BOARD AT ELITEFITNESS-----

RADAR?????


JENETIC?????


PLEASE ASK THEM ABOUT YOUR THEORIES----AND THEY WILL GIVE YOU A CLUE-------

I am all done looking at your completely wrong posts, when you dont know what you are talking about.......


How can you sit there knowing there are bro's in need of serious help and are looking for vital information for their diet----AND YOUR HERE SAYING YOU CAN EAT 1100 cals/protein and 900 cals/FAT BUTTER and LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!!!
CMON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn kids....

WHERE IS RADAR WHEN YOU NEED HIM----ONE OF THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE MEN YOU WILL EVER LEARN FROM--------Please see his picture in his signature----that is him when he was 49 years old--------He would blow away guys competing in their 20's.........


again, proper comp diets will bring your abs in like this:
Attached Thumbnails

__________________

 

[krishna]

Damn guys, I didn't know this thread would start a war. So if I shouldn't do high intensity after a work out, what about HIIT? I don't seem to be losing any muscle from doing high intensity cardio after my work-outs. The tren/test probably has something to do with that though.

 

[Joe Stenson]

Damn guys, I didn't know this thread would start a war. So if I shouldn't do high intensity after a work out, what about HIIT? I don't seem to be losing any muscle from doing high intensity cardio after my work-outs. The tren/test probably has something to do with that though.

Yeah, HIIT is "best" done as a separate session. This doesn't mean you can't do it after your workout, especially with those extra goodies you're taking that will help prevent catabolism.

 

[borg4902]

I PERSONALLY would avoid HITT altogether. Why make life any harder than it has to be imo. I prefer the stepper or the treadmill at a very high incline just a nice paced walk will suffice. I also try to stay in fat burning zone. Most bodybuilders are very large people and all that bouncing has to negatively affect your joints in time. Especially on a compound like winstrol. It might take longer but for me it saves my already tired battered body some added greif. Especially when cals are cut and energy is barely there to begin with.

 

[will b huge]

I PERSONALLY would avoid HITT altogether. Why make life any harder than it has to be imo. I prefer the stepper or the treadmill at a very high incline just a nice paced walk will suffice. I also try to stay in fat burning zone. Most bodybuilders are very large people and all that bouncing has to negatively affect your joints in time. Especially on a compound like winstrol. It might take longer but for me it saves my already tired battered body some added greif. Especially when cals are cut and energy is barely there to begin with.

Exactly my thoughts as well----maximize fat burning cal's---if you ride bike, do treadmill, stairmaster at a 70% rate, then at the 20 minute mark is when you will be burning all fat---If you can go for a Boring hour---40 minutes worth of solid fat burning.........

I just saw that SLAT1 posted the same thing too....(glad it works for him)


(my posts here are exactly what has worked for me, my workout friends, my competing buddies, and some experts that have been around for many moons--(not to mention that I'm getting up there now too in my 30's)

If you dont agree with my threads (like JOE STENSON)---well good luck to you- your entitled to your own opinions-----but I am typing on here what works to share with someone that is asking for useful advice-----(If I dont know, then I dont answer that post----If there is something that I would like to know--then I start a thread---------(BY NO MEANS, do I intentionally try to start arguments like JOE STENSON stated that he "just likes to play the devils advocate because its fun"-----


KRISHNA---GOOD LUCK TO YOU BROTHA----------I REALLY TRIED VERY HARD TO GIVE YOU SOME OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT I'VE LEARNED AND PROVEN OUT THROUGH THE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Joe Stenson]

(my posts here are exactly what has worked for me, my workout friends, my competing buddies, and some experts that have been around for many moons--(not to mention that I'm getting up there now too in my 30's)

If you dont agree with my threads (like JOE STENSON)---well good luck to you- your entitled to your own opinions-----but I am typing on here what works to share with someone that is asking for useful advice-----(If I dont know, then I dont answer that post----If there is something that I would like to know--then I start a thread---------(BY NO MEANS, do I intentionally try to start arguments like JOE STENSON stated that he "just likes to play the devils advocate because its fun"-----

I appreciate this post as you seemed to really tone it down and put some thought into it first. You also finally admitted that your way isn't the only way, which has been my point the whole time.

And no, I don't play devil's advocate for "fun". I do it because there's never one right answer and if everyone just agrees on the most commonly expressed views no one ever LEARNS anything, which is what these boards are for.