Critique The Cycle

[seandh07]

24 5'5" 175lb 12%

1-7 60mg tren ace Ed
Hcgenerate (2 bottles taking until empty)
N2gaurd (2 bottles taking until empty)
Liquid prami staring at .25 e3days for a week then going to .5 e3d for a week (ill keep it there if I can but possibly go up to .5 eod)

Pct will include unleashed/post cycle forma and daa test.

This will be for a competition and ill stop the tren 1 week out

No I'm not taking text (1st time on tren and taking it slow)

 

[infraredline]

24 5'5" 175lb 12%

1-7 60mg tren ace Ed
Hcgenerate (2 bottles taking until empty)
N2gaurd (2 bottles taking until empty)
Liquid prami staring at .25 e3days for a week then going to .5 e3d for a week (ill keep it there if I can but possibly go up to .5 eod)

Pct will include unleashed/post cycle forma and daa test.

This will be for a competition and ill stop the tren 1 week out

No I'm not taking text (1st time on tren and taking it slow)

No juice for you, albuterol would suit you fine and you could run ostarine to try and preserve size while dieting, this is how it would look

1-2 12mg albuterol (3 4mg doses)
3-4 15mg albuterol (3 5mg doses)
5-6 18mg albuterol (3 6mg doses)
7-8 21mg albuterol (3 7mg doses
1-8 ostarine 15mg ed

Mini pct:
9-12 recycle by purus labs or post cycle unleashed combo

 

[stevesmi]

24 5'5" 175lb 12%

1-7 60mg tren ace Ed
Hcgenerate (2 bottles taking until empty)
N2gaurd (2 bottles taking until empty)
Liquid prami staring at .25 e3days for a week then going to .5 e3d for a week (ill keep it there if I can but possibly go up to .5 eod)

Pct will include unleashed/post cycle forma and daa test.

This will be for a competition and ill stop the tren 1 week out

No I'm not taking text (1st time on tren and taking it slow)

I like your style bro.

make sure you grab some hcg to run between cycle and pct and blast it

and i would keep a finger on caber because a lot of guys end up hating prami..

 

[seandh07]

I kept my eye out for it on known places to carry caber, everytime I looked it was out of stock. Thank god hcgen and n2gaurd are finally stocked!

 

[stevesmi]

you can run prami now before you start tren and see if you like it. nothing wrong with tanking your prolactin levels, men don't need prolactin. its not like estrogen that is needed.

if you don't like prami then you can grab the caber instead ahead of time.

 

[dylangemelli]

No juice for you, albuterol would suit you fine and you could run ostarine to try and preserve size while dieting, this is how it would look

1-2 12mg albuterol (3 4mg doses)
3-4 15mg albuterol (3 5mg doses)
5-6 18mg albuterol (3 6mg doses)
7-8 21mg albuterol (3 7mg doses
1-8 ostarine 15mg ed

Mini pct:
9-12 recycle by purus labs or post cycle unleashed combo

I have no clue what kind of advice this is but he's ran cycles before and this is not suitable at all for what he's preparing for... i don't get this at all...



I see no problem running tren alone as well... Just like steve said, i would definitely try to get caber bro... its going to make things much easier for you...

 

[seandh07]

Yea I'm still searching but no luck, I figure ill keep looking until 4 weeks in(hopefully something pops up in a month!) but at least I have something for prolactin! Ill be taking shots and the prami at night right before bed (I've hear of the nightmares of taking prami in the morning!)

 

[UA_Iron]

560mg/week of Tren for a Men's figure competition?

I would never touch a progestin like tren and deca without test. But hey, whatever you want to do.

 

[stevesmi]

560mg/week of Tren for a Men's figure competition?

I would never touch a progestin like tren and deca without test. But hey, whatever you want to do.

i have ran tren alone without test many times. good for the OP for not stacking 8 things together.. he depends on his diet and training, not on running grams of juice to get his results. for that he should be lauded for, not attacked

btw my last cycle was all natty supps and the results speak for themselves.. i could get on stage right now after that and blow away most of the field in my respective categories. its boils down to diet and training, not how much juice you stack and I proved it

 

[seandh07]

Bro 560?! Maybe you should take some math lesson, it's 420mg/wk. and men's figure?! Never heard of that one. It's Mens physique. My avi is me the first time on stage, all natural no supps (other than recommended vitamins) just straight clean eating and good training. I weighed 151 in that pic, I started prep for this show at 181 and will start my cycle probably around 173/174 with hopes of getting on stage around 165. Tren is fine alone. You start adding compounds a s shit fucks up. You look at anyone whose ran tren/test together and I gauruntee you they had more sides than tren solo. And really the only sides to tren comes from being a jackass and not covering your bases.

 

[ballslee]

Bro 560?! Maybe you should take some math lesson, it's 420mg/wk. and men's figure?! Never heard of that one. It's Mens physique. My avi is me the first time on stage, all natural no supps (other than recommended vitamins) just straight clean eating and good training. I weighed 151 in that pic, I started prep for this show at 181 and will start my cycle probably around 173/174 with hopes of getting on stage around 165. Tren is fine alone. You start adding compounds a s shit fucks up. You look at anyone whose ran tren/test together and I gauruntee you they had more sides than tren solo. And really the only sides to tren comes from being a jackass and not covering your bases.

ya and not having any libido. Don't get me wrong, hcgenerate is great but it isn't strong enough to replace test IMO. I would at the very least be running real Hcg. But I would consider proviron at the very least to maintain some type of libido.

you run what your going to run, but people take test with tren for their libido solely. and taking test with it causes way less sides than the ones you speak of. not bashing you, just saying.

why not run some orals? my reason here being that cutting Tren A out 1 week before the show is what you should do, because you need to let all of the oil dissapate from your muscles but I would think that, that week would be pretty terrible. and having a drop off before the show. I know lots of people who drop the injects before the show, but they continue with orals (or in your case you could buy the new tren transdermal and use that)

 

[seandh07]

From my understanding (Steve correct me if I'm wrong) as long as prolactin levels are down libido should not be an issue. Tren doesn't aromatize so it doesn't effect estrogen or even test for that matter.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ whether you run test with tren you still need to control prolactin.

your libido will be fine with tren alone. been there and done that.

tren is 5X more anabolic than test. thats a fact.

 

[stevesmi]

you run what your going to run, but people take test with tren for their libido solely. and taking test with it causes way less sides than the ones you speak of. not bashing you, just saying.
)

compeletely false

you get more sides with test... test does not block sides, it makes them worse. its AAS.

test also DOES NOT block prolactin and makes estrogen sides worse. this is one of the biggest myths i read on forums.

the more juice you run the more sides you will get. unless its var or maybe primo, it will most certainly increase sides ..

have you tried tren only before? if run correctly its a wonderful cycle

this type of thinking that test solves sides gets a lot of guys in deep shit.. lets take deca for example.. if you run test with deca lots of guys think they don't have to run an AI. the funny thing is testosterone will make progesterone explode worse, it won't make it better!! so when they come off guess what happens? their dick stops working. happens all the time.

 

[infraredline]

I have no clue what kind of advice this is but he's ran cycles before and this is not suitable at all for what he's preparing for... i don't get this at all...



I see no problem running tren alone as well... Just like steve said, i would definitely try to get caber bro... its going to make things much easier for you...

I said this cause he's 175 at 5,5 seems like he should gain more first without juice and do a later show

 

[seandh07]

I said this cause he's 175 at 5,5 seems like he should gain more first without juice and do a later show

Naw ill drop to 160-165, at my height and the division I'm in that's perfect, not doing bodybuilding, men's physique. My avi I was 151..

 

[ballslee]

Okay, but I guess what I am saying is that Tren does effect your testosterone.

Tren shuts you down hard. Therefore, your body is no longer producing its own testosterone.

Hcgenerate is a fine supplement, and I am not bashing it...but IMO i do not think it is enough to have proper test levels on a tren only cycle.

Hcg....yes that can. But I am not a believer in that either in terms of that being the only source you have for your body's own testosterone.
You may feel differently, but that is my opinion. I won't ever run a non-test cycle....not even the anavar proviron cycle.

But being shut down for that long is why people take test. I get what you are saying that it can cause more sides, but for me I do not believe in running a compound with out test.
just my opinion.

 

[TheRippedReverend]

Okay, but I guess what I am saying is that Tren does effect your testosterone.

Tren shuts you down hard. Therefore, your body is no longer producing its own testosterone.

Hcgenerate is a fine supplement, and I am not bashing it...but IMO i do not think it is enough to have proper test levels on a tren only cycle.

Hcg....yes that can. But I am not a believer in that either in terms of that being the only source you have for your body's own testosterone.
You may feel differently, but that is my opinion. I won't ever run a non-test cycle....not even the anavar proviron cycle.

But being shut down for that long is why people take test. I get what you are saying that it can cause more sides, but for me I do not believe in running a compound with out test.
just my opinion.

Being shut down for that long, thats why ppl run test?

What do you think test does? It shuts you down. This makes no sense to me or did I read this wrong?

 

[seandh07]

Okay, but I guess what I am saying is that Tren does effect your testosterone.

Tren shuts you down hard. Therefore, your body is no longer producing its own testosterone.

Hcgenerate is a fine supplement, and I am not bashing it...but IMO i do not think it is enough to have proper test levels on a tren only cycle.

Hcg....yes that can. But I am not a believer in that either in terms of that being the only source you have for your body's own testosterone.
You may feel differently, but that is my opinion. I won't ever run a non-test cycle....not even the anavar proviron cycle.

But being shut down for that long is why people take test. I get what you are saying that it can cause more sides, but for me I do not believe in running a compound with out test.
just my opinion.

Hey to each his own. Every compound works different for everyone. If running tren with no test causes me serious issues as far as testosterone and shut down then next run ill add in test. But I'm using tren for the first time. I'd rather keep the juice to a minimum before adding other compounds just to see how I react to that one compound. Then in the future I can better stack for my own personal needs. This game is more like trial and error until you find that 'perfect' cycle if you ask me. I'm only 24 so I'm not trying to through more than 500mg/wk in my body. Taking things slow. Single compounds for now until I'm more experienced.

 

[ballslee]

Being shut down for that long, thats why ppl run test?

What do you think test does? It shuts you down. This makes no sense to me or did I read this wrong?

Ya I didn't quite say what I meant right.

I feel like being shut down from tren requires Test to be able to function daily.
I know test shuts you down, I guess what I am saying is being shut down without high levels of test is not optimal IMO. And I don't think Hcgenerate or hcg is the way to accomplish that.
I'm not arguing, I'm just stating that I wouldn't do it without test. But I get the logic that has been stated above.

 

[JayDiesel]

it sounds good to me I've been planning a tren only cycle. I see both sides of the argument though, that running at least a small amount of test might trick your body into thinking it has test circulating. but either way you're gonna be shut down so why not have less sides and no estrogenic sides from not running test. I think tren only would make for an awesome physique before a show

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using EliteFitness

 

[seandh07]

it sounds good to me I've been planning a tren only cycle. I see both sides of the argument though, that running at least a small amount of test might trick your body into thinking it has test circulating. but either way you're gonna be shut down so why not have less sides and no estrogenic sides from not running test. I think tren only would make for an awesome physique before a show

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using EliteFitness

This!!!!

 

[seandh07]

In light of more research ill be running n2slin alongside the tren.

 

[UA_Iron]

Tren and test will shut you down, yes. But tren in place of test will not fulfill all the functions that test does. So while either will shut you down, its wise to run test at a therapeutic dose to ensure everything else is in order. This is why I stated I would not run tren without test - your situation might be different considering what kind of competition you're doing etc.

Mood is one of the biggest reasons why you should run test. Doesn't matter what you look like if you feel like shit. Progestins, like tren and deca, have well documented affects on mood.

 

[seandh07]

Tren and test will shut you down, yes. But tren in place of test will not fulfill all the functions that test does. So while either will shut you down, its wise to run test at a therapeutic dose to ensure everything else is in order. This is why I stated I would not run tren without test - your situation might be different considering what kind of competition you're doing etc.

Mood is one of the biggest reasons why you should run test. Doesn't matter what you look like if you feel like shit. Progestins, like tren and deca, have well documented affects on mood.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm running tren solo to see how my body reacts to it. Might go good, might go bad, but either way I'd like to know how I'm effected solo tren so I can set up better cycles for me in the future.

The mood thing is all in your head. I'm sure it's easier to get in a shitty mood on tren but it's mind of matter, if you don't mind it doesn't matter.

 

[stevesmi]

Tren and test will shut you down, yes. But tren in place of test will not fulfill all the functions that test does. So while either will shut you down, its wise to run test at a therapeutic dose to ensure everything else is in order. This is why I stated I would not run tren without test - your situation might be different considering what kind of competition you're doing etc.

Mood is one of the biggest reasons why you should run test. Doesn't matter what you look like if you feel like shit. Progestins, like tren and deca, have well documented affects on mood.

if you are that much of a basketcase then you shouldn't run any AAS in the first place.

i don't see how cycle dosages of test would make your mood better, you will have to show me these 'documented cases' as you put it. test makes me more aggressive than any AAS out there. add it to tren and you would become more aggressive, not less. thats been my experience. let the guy run his tren alone, too many of you have never run tren alone (or properly) so you have no idea how he is gonna react.

and what do you mean ensuring everything is in order? tren is 5X more anabolic than test, so i hope you are not implying you cannot gain on tren. btw I set across the board PR's running tren E with var with NO TEST. so there goes that theory.... and if you look at my last thread where i posted pics you could argue i kept most, if not all my gains from that 'horrible cycle/ using just natty supplements (my last injection was nov 1 of last year).. so give it lets say 3 weeks to clear .. its been about 3 months since i touched AAS. go figure. perhaps, just perhaps its easier to keep gains on tren alone without test, than it is to stack tren and test. i'm not gonna say that for sure but it would make sense considering test aromatizes, anyway the pics tell a much different story than what you are implying

leave it to good ole steve to blow these broscience theories out of the water. if you asked most internet guru's they would tell you to always stack test with tren.. but when you ask why specifically they cannot give you any legitimate reason except broscience theories.. bottom line is hormones are hormones. it doesn't matter what it is, if you use them properly they will bring results, if you pct right and run a great bridge you can keep most of your gains. i have proved it over and over.

 

[-SD-]

I would think caber makes running tren alone a more viable option.

 

[UA_Iron]

I must say, I do enjoy a good debate, but time and time again you fail to read my entire post.

if you are that much of a basketcase then you shouldn't run any AAS in the first place.

I never said one way or the other, you shouldn't make assumptions.

i don't see how cycle dosages of test would make your mood better, you will have to show me these 'documented cases' as you put it.

By the corollary that we know low testosterone affects moods, we can assume that likewise is similar by suppressing it with a foreign compound. Other than that, google it.

test makes me more aggressive than any AAS out there. add it to tren and you would become more aggressive, not less. thats been my experience. let the guy run his tren alone, too many of you have never run tren alone (or properly) so you have no idea how he is gonna react.

This is because your natural test is probably due to your age, just saying And since you've never run Halo, then you're not qualified to make that statement.

I've been a prick lately not in a bad way. but I have been feeling like I want to crack peoples heads lately. i haven't touched AAS in a few months but this stuff makes me feel like I am on tren let me tell you.
good shit

- test does make you feel pretty good huh??




Again, you should take note of my careful choice of words. I say what works for me, and what I would or wouldn't do and why (usually). Your experience is one data point, which is no indication of trending either way - so tren alone works well for you with no sides? congratulations. Your advice should now be "I do well with tren alone, I suggest you try it, here are my experiences..." instead of applying your specific situation to all cases. I'm giving you insight into how "science" works, since you like to throw that word around rather casually.

As far as him running tren alone, I said his case was unique and never disagreed with it.

and what do you mean ensuring everything is in order? tren is 5X more anabolic than test, so i hope you are not implying you cannot gain on tren.

I'm not sure how you'd get the silly idea that I would ever suggest something like that... You're making assumptions and extracting incorrect conclusions from my short responses.

btw I set across the board PR's running tren E with var with NO TEST. so there goes that theory....

What theory? I know tren makes you strong, I've run it before. I never even remotely hinted that you need test to make you stronger... Congratulations by the way.

and if you look at my last thread where i posted pics you could argue i kept most, if not all my gains from that 'horrible cycle/ using just natty supplements (my last injection was nov 1 of last year).. so give it lets say 3 weeks to clear .. its been about 3 months since i touched AAS. go figure. perhaps, just perhaps its easier to keep gains on tren alone without test, than it is to stack tren and test. i'm not gonna say that for sure but it would make sense considering test aromatizes, anyway the pics tell a much different story than what you are implying

I'm not implying anything, you're putting words into my posts.

leave it to good ole steve to blow these broscience theories out of the water. if you asked most internet guru's they would tell you to always stack test with tren.. but when you ask why specifically they cannot give you any legitimate reason except broscience theories.. bottom line is hormones are hormones. it doesn't matter what it is, if you use them properly they will bring results, if you pct right and run a great bridge you can keep most of your gains. i have proved it over and over.

You should run a cycle of estrogen for 10 weeks then PCT and report back: "hormones are hormones" afterall. And if hormones are hormones then there'd be no reason to run anything besides test... Because you don't understand the mechanisms involved doesn't give you the right to make that blanket statement. Admittedly I dont know the pathways and mechanisms steroids work in the body, it is not in my area of expertise, but not beyond my comprehension.

Just realize, that if you have managed to kick out a "broscience" idea on EF you've replaced it with your own flavor of "broscience" because of your methods.

Since I am all about self-improvement/betterment I welcome you touch up on a few things:
The Scientific Method:
Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Logical Fallacies:
Purdue OWL: Logic in Argumentative Writing

 

[stevesmi]

^^^injecting testosterone suppresses the bodies own testosterone. injecting tren suppresses the bodies own testosterone.. injecting primo suppresses the bodies own testosterone. all male hormones suppress the bodies natural testosterone. and all of those compounds are derived from the male hormone testosterone. hope you see the connection there.

we aren't talking about estrogen as its not a male hormones, its a female hormone that males have. just like testosterone is a male hormone that females have. .. however you do need estrogen to build muscle. if you suppress your estrogen you would feel like shit too btw. there is a dude i am working with whose estrogen levels are at 7 because his doc put him on letro, adex and crashed his estrogen and he is borderline suicidal and can't get his dick up to save his life.

and i can point to hundreds of threads that guys have run test with tren and still had 'sides' as you put it. your sides would be WORSE with test and tren vs. tren alone as its more hormones. the guy in his first post said he wanted to run 1 compound and keep the dosages low. you and others are advocating he double or triple his dosages and run 2 compounds instead of 1 because you guys claim it would somehow reduce his sides which makes absolutely no sense. how does running more juice result in less sides? its a simple question and you said in your prior post because it 'will ensure everything else stays in order' ... i'm not putting words in your mouth thats what you said and it makes no sense at all. hormones are hormones, adding more hormones is more hormones. and then you said that test with tren 'enhances mood'... i can point you to hundreds of threads of guys who have landed in jail running test with tren.. if you are a prick off AAS, you will be a bigger prick on AAS. add more hormones and you will be even more of a prick.. its a cliche but its true.

my post you quoted i was talking about 'test infusion' which is a natty supplement.. so not sure how that has anything to do with this thread. i guess you were trying to imply that it proves i am a hypocrite for saying that? ummm.. ok.. those that know me on here know that i am a straight shooter and don't spout lies and bullshit ever. in fact there is nobody on here who has posted more pics, bloodwork, etc in the past 3 years as i have. NOBODY. and nobody has laid out specific cycles they are running and posted pics of their supplements like i have. so i never mis-lead people on here.

bottom line again its PROLACTIN that is your enemy with tren. and running testosterone WILL NOT BLOCK PROLACTIN. not sure how many times i have to repeat myself.. i've always been successful running tren with or without test because i have ran caber with it. i've had no recovery issues as well. now before anyone says that i am lucky and one of those dudes that just doesn't have problems i will differ because i have run deca before and had a helluva time recovering using an inferior pct and failing to run the proper ancillaries on it. so i've learned from MY MISTAKES and since then i've perfected things so that things are smooth today. i'm sure had i run tren improperly i would have had just as many problems as others i read about

 

[UA_Iron]

^^^injecting testosterone suppresses the bodies own testosterone. injecting tren suppresses the bodies own testosterone.. injecting primo suppresses the bodies own testosterone. all male hormones suppress the bodies natural testosterone. and all of those compounds are derived from the male hormone testosterone. hope you see the connection there.

Progestins are notably more suppressive than all other steroids. I understand the connection very well.

we aren't talking about estrogen as its not a male hormones, its a female hormone that males have. just like testosterone is a male hormone that females have. .. however you do need estrogen to build muscle. if you suppress your estrogen you would feel like shit too btw. there is a dude i am working with whose estrogen levels are at 7 because his doc put him on letro, adex and crashed his estrogen and he is borderline suicidal and can't get his dick up to save his life.

We seek to achieve an odd balance that exists only on an unstable equilibrium, too much of one thing or another will have you falling off either end of stability. I suggest letro as a fix for gyno only really.

and i can point to hundreds of threads that guys have run test with tren and still had 'sides' as you put it. your sides would be WORSE with test and tren vs. tren alone as its more hormones. the guy in his first post said he wanted to run 1 compound and keep the dosages low. you and others are advocating he double or triple his dosages and run 2 compounds instead of 1 because you guys claim it would somehow reduce his sides which makes absolutely no sense. how does running more juice result in less sides?

Sides exist with any steroid, but I never advocated that he run anything more than tren. I just said what I would run.

again its PROLACTIN that is your enemy with tren. and running testosterone WILL NOT BLOCK PROLACTIN. not sure how many times i have to repeat myself

This fact was never argued, again I would never suggest otherwise. Test should help libido and mood though, but at the possible expense of increasing sides.

 

[melochai]

Interesting. ...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EliteFitness

 

[stevesmi]

^^^^ agree with everything you said except that progestins are more suppressive.

in my experience the only reason deca is considered suppressive is because of the ester 'deca' ... its a long and stubborn ester that lingers for a long time after last injection so guys think its more suppressive than it really is because they run bloods after a month and their T levels are still under 100 and their LH is struggling to bounce (due to small traces of the ester still lingering and the body not bothering to wake up). this is why i suggest NPP instead and guys report very little issues recovering from it. and NPP is a progestin ..

and i do believe as your 2nd point illustrated if you run a strong AI and caber/prami with deca it can make recovery much easier than it really is. but guys fail to do that.. which is why i tell guys to run bloods around week 5 or 6 to make sure their progesterone isn't out of control. i have seen guys with estradiol sky high who are running 2 AI's. the aromatization guys get with deca and test stacks is incredibly high. it may take much more AI's than they think to get a handle on it.

as for tren i have rebounded incredibly quick from using it.. much faster than test cycles i have run. not sure if that proves its less suppressive but it just depends on what you consider 'suppression' means. i have many guys who have run bloods with test after 2 weeks who already have LH at 0.. to me that is what suppression is. some guys consider suppression 'low libido' which i don't think is an accurate way to describe it because libido can be effected by so many things.

i think that testosterone for sure is as suppressive as tren or deca, if not more based on my definition of suppression. that being how fast does it slam your LH to 0 and how fast you are able to recover from it. and on the other end of the spectrum is primo which slowly suppresses you and then you recover incredibly fast from what i have seen from my own bloods and other guys bloods i have looked at.

 

[stevesmi]

Interesting. ...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EliteFitness

UA Iron is one of the smartest bro's on here. so when me and him have a nice debate its usually a damn good thing for the board to enjoy.

who knows who is right, thats the fun thing about nutrition and bodybuilding.. there is never a black and white answer to things. and we could debate this shit all night and still not know.

hence why there are so many PT's and so many books on this stuff. if there was 1 way then life would be simple and we wouldn't need a board or books or PT's. everyone could just run the same cycle over and over and do the same workouts.. maybe in another 300 years someone will come up with a perfect strategy that works on 100% of the population, maybe a magic pill that would make it not necessary to workout, eat good, or juice anymore... but that would be no fun.

 

[-SD-]

Whoever said the steroid game was easy and just a shortcut was fucking wrong. This shit is complicated and hard in the long run.

 

[UA_Iron]

Finding the optimal inputs per output is the tough part. Not everything is going to work for everyone, and it doesnt even work the same way each time for everyone. There's a lot of inputs to the whole equation. We lay out good guidelines from which to iterate from. I respect Steve, he helps out a lot of people and talks a lot of sense and an immense source of knowledge. A good board always has these debates, its what makes a board good.

 

[seandh07]

All I. My thread to!!! A good debate is a good debate!!!

 

[seandh07]

And if I did add anything it would be a 6 week stint of winny at 50/day (remember this is a precompetition cutting cycle) I want my veins to look line mountains and cuts so deep they look like valleys!