Creating a new diet, What do you guys think?

[serbyte]

The idea of this diet is to Cycle between a Ketosis and an anabolic state everyday. The Idea is that you stay as close to keto as possible, untill after your workout, when you try to get the most anabolism as possible. I want to try to formulate a diet that will allow you to get cut while maintaining muscle and maybe even gaining some. This may even work for bulking without gaining fat.

Keto-part of the diet

Before the morning cardio and Preworkout MCT oil and protien should be taken. Glutamine is also important to lower the elevated cortisol level.
Cardio will be done twice a day, once in the morning and once following your workout. Cardio after the workout is optional but I would reccomend at least 10 minutes, because your body should be the most in keto now. It should be very low intensity, 65%MaxHR and I would reccomend at least 25 minutes per session.
Meals in the morning should be Keto type meals with no carbs, moderate low protein and high fat.

Anabolic part of the diet

This part of the diet consists of High protien Moderate carbs and no fat. All meals should be supplimented with ALA.
After your workout I would reccomend taking in a PW shake with dextrose(40c-40p). Meals contain only the best carbs and be high in protein. I would make the meals 65%p, 35%c. I reccomend taking alot of slow digesting protein with some very low GI carbs before bed, about 60 protein and 20 carbs.

Suppliments

ALA,
Flax oil and other EFA's
MCT oil
Glutamine
Dextrose
Protien powders like Whey and Caseinate
CLA
Multivitamin
Fat burners, whatever you prefer, although I would probably use Clen.

AAS might also be affective with this diet


What do you guys think of this diet. Any input would be helpful because I am just putting this together. Do you guys think that this would even work.

 

[sawastea]

This looks a bit like a TKD (Targeted Ketogenic Diet)...

http://www.massmonsters.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3996

Everything looks good, check out the link

 

[serbyte]

No actually its nothing like TKD, because TKD doesnt allow for any replenishing of muscle, you only take carbs before a workout on TKD. Here you do basically the opposite, carbs are based after the workout to replenish the muscles and to try to gain muscle too.

 

[dr0832]

How can you gain muscle when you are cutting and having a caloric deficit? I am really interested in trying something like this when I cut in the spring. I don't think I could handle a ckd for more then 2-3 weeks, but I know if I could have some carbs around workout time I would probably be ok. Also last time I cut I lost way to much muscle and it was with like 80-100g carbs a day, but I was definitely eating way too little as well.

 

[serbyte]

I dont think that this should be done with a calorie deficit. I think that you will be able to burn fat in the mornings and in your workout, and then the carbs and protien after your workout will be used to rebuild and repair muscle. There will be no time for fat to be stored, but there will be plenty of time for your fat to be burned. I believe calorie deficit will only create weightloss, timing and low intensity cardio will create fat loss. Theres a big difference.

 

[Mr.X]

I dont think that this should be done with a calorie deficit. I think that you will be able to burn fat in the mornings and in your workout, and then the carbs and protien after your workout will be used to rebuild and repair muscle. There will be no time for fat to be stored, but there will be plenty of time for your fat to be burned. I believe calorie deficit will only create weightloss, timing and low intensity cardio will create fat loss. Theres a big difference.

I think in one day you just can't have both anabolism and semi-catabolism, you're trying to do two things at one time (one day) and it's not probable. The better way to go about it is to have a day-to-day type diet: 1 day of low-carbs, 1 day high-carbs. That would make a difference, otherwise you will not be able to gain or lose during the day - balance out.

Mr.X

 

[dr0832]

M. X If you did something like what your talking about for 1.5 months 1 on day low carb and 1 day high carbs or 2 days on 1 day off would this be easily to deal with and would it yield the same results as ckd for 3 weeks? I know I got very tired, and very irritable when I was cutting and like I said i was taking like 80g carbs usually. I am not sure if I could handle a full week of low carbs with a refeed once a week.

 

[Mr.X]

M. X If you did something like what your talking about for 1.5 months 1 on day low carb and 1 day high carbs or 2 days on 1 day off would this be easily to deal with and would it yield the same results as ckd for 3 weeks?probably not, 3 weeks is barely long enough to adapt to ketosis - much less see proper results
I know I got very tired, and very irritable when I was cutting and like I said i was taking like 80g carbs usually. I am not sure if I could handle a full week of low carbs with a refeed once a week.
you can try low-carb if you wish: 50%protein/20%carbs/30%fat, not NO-carb as I call CKD but more of a lower carb diet. As w/ anything, the carb-addiction that you have will go away in a few weeks.

Mr.X

 

[serbyte]

Mr. X, why do you believe that you cant have anabolism and semi catabolism in one day. I would like to know so that I could find some other way to time this diet.

Would this diet at least work for buliking if you had a calorie surplus?

To me it just makes sense that if you are burning mostly fat, like when you wake up, and your body is not getting the chance to store fat because you are using the carbs and protien for repair, than how wouldnt you lose fat.
Also if you have sufficient carbs and protien to repair your muscle after your workout wouldnt you be able to gain at least a little muscle?

If this idea of gaining muscle and losing fat is impossible, than would this diet at least work with AAS?

 

[Mr.X]

Mr. X, why do you believe that you cant have anabolism and semi catabolism in one day. I would like to know so that I could find some other way to time this diet. there is no such thing as "semi-catabolism" you're either catabolic or not, like being pregnant, you're either pregnant or not. You CAN be catabolic and anabolic the same day but that would defeat the purpose of the diet b/c to be anabolic you'd have to have enough of an insulin spike to induce fat-gain.

Would this diet at least work for buliking if you had a calorie surplus?yes, w/ a calorie surplus I would imagine it would be more feasible

To me it just makes sense that if you are burning mostly fat, like when you wake up, you're assuming you're burning mostly fat and your body is not getting the chance to store fat because you are using the carbs and protien for repair, than how wouldnt you lose fat. again, you're assuming; usually you burn proteins for fuel too during AM cardio and such
Also if you have sufficient carbs and protien to repair your muscle after your workout wouldnt you be able to gain at least a little muscle?probably not, if anything it would be so marginal that w/ a caloric deficit it would be used for energy

If this idea of gaining muscle and losing fat is impossible, than would this diet at least work with AAS? yes it works w/ AS, but the mere idea of gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time is an oxymoron; one needs a deficit and one needs a surplus, it's physically impossible

Mr.X

 

[serbyte]

Flaws I find with your argument, Mr. X<

You originally wrote "semi-catabolism", not me.

To be anabolic you have to have an insulin spike thatwould induce fat gain, but if you are not taking in any fat, and are taking ALA with all of the carbs then you would not gain fat.

You say that I am assuming that I would be burning fat, Low intensity cardio with MCT oil and protein would allow for at least some fat burn with minimal or no muscle burn.

Burning fat and gaining muscle is and Oxymoron, but with this diet you are not doing the two at the same time, rather your are burning fat durring your workouts and building muscle afterwards.

I intended this diet to be a bulking while losing fat, not a diet with a calorie deficit.

PS, im not trying to insult you im just trying to pose a good argument.

 

[Mr.X]

Flaws I find with your argument, Mr. X<
lol, it's not an argument it's an attempt to help you

You originally wrote "semi-catabolism", not me.yes, in an attempt to make you undrstand that
"I think in one day you just can't have both anabolism and semi-catabolism" that's my quote re-read

To be anabolic you have to have an insulin spike thatwould induce fat gain, but if you are not taking in any fat, and are taking ALA with all of the carbs then you would not gain fat.
glucose can be shuttled into fat cells, not only fat; that's again a flaw; and even a ton of ALA wouldn't fix a problem w/ not haviing enough free sites for glycogen to go, afterwhich it can go into fat-cells, ALA is not the end to all things

You say that I am assuming that I would be burning fat, Low intensity cardio with MCT oil and protein would allow for at least some fat burn with minimal or no muscle burn.
sure, low intensity cardio w/ protein and MCT would allow for burning of the ingested protein and then maybe fat, depending on the state your body is in - you can't ever say that you'll be burning fat w/ cardio, for you're assuming no gluconeogenesis or high glucagon release which could both be wrong

Burning fat and gaining muscle is and Oxymoron, but with this diet you are not doing the two at the same time, rather your are burning fat durring your workouts and building muscle afterwards.
ok, how's this...try the diet and come back in 12 weeks a post results, it would be the best

I intended this diet to be a bulking while losing fat, not a diet with a calorie deficit. so you're trying to LOSE bodyfat w/ a caloric surplus, again you're breaking the laws of physics: you take in surplus, you gain; you take in a deficit you lose. No matter how you word it, the laws stay. You will be able to LOSE weight, but that weight can be muscle mass (especially w/ you trying to catabolize the body). Again, why listen to me, try it yourself and come back in 12 weeks and post results

PS, im not trying to insult you im just trying to pose a good argument. lol, no argument, just trying to help you and YES I love you too

Mr.X

 

[serbyte]

Assuming you ate only enough good carbs that your muscle could hold, and taking ALA there would be no fat gain. I agree, taking in excess carbs will go to fat, but i dont advise taking in excess carbs, only enough to create a state of anabolism.

Ok, maybe it will burn the protien, but you could just drop the protein shake, and go only on MCT. I dont think that low intensity cardio will require much glucose for your body to begin to breakdown a significant ammount of muscle. CLA will help glucagon release.

Lets pretend that this is a pure cutting diet,
What do you reccomend for optimal fat burn, with maximum glucagon release, besides being in complete Keto?
When do you reccomend cardio to be done, for optimal fat loss and minimal muscle breakdown?
Is cardio after a workout destructive because of the raised cortisol levels?
What do you reccomend taking before a workout or cardio to stimulate fat loss with as little muscle burn as possible?
What suppliments would be benneficial?

Also, anyone else is encouraged to add their comments.

 

[Mr.X]

Assuming you ate only enough good carbs that your muscle could hold, and taking ALA there would be no fat gain. I agree, taking in excess carbs will go to fat, but i dont advise taking in excess carbs, only enough to create a state of anabolism.

Ok, maybe it will burn the protien, but you could just drop the protein shake, and go only on MCT. you'd probably be better off adding some BCAAs toodnt think that low intensity cardio will require much glucose for your body to begin to breakdown a significant ammount of muscle. it depends, energy is energy CLA will help glucagon release. not really, again, no real studies to prove that

Lets pretend that this is a pure cutting diet,
What do you reccomend for optimal fat burn, with maximum glucagon release, besides being in complete Keto? maximum glucagon release would have to be when you have low-insulin, they are inverse hormones, when one is highest the other one is usually lowest: i.e. low-insulin, high-glucagon. The best way would be to be in ketosis; any other way would be to limit carb intake to 100g or less which would automatically put you in ketosis in time
When do you reccomend cardio to be done, for optimal fat loss and minimal muscle breakdown?when insulin is lowest and insulin sensitivity is highest, which is usually in the AM
Is cardio after a workout destructive because of the raised cortisol levels?yes, usually not the best way to go, but can work well while in ketosis
What do you reccomend taking before a workout or cardio to stimulate fat loss with as little muscle burn as possible?you can try Amino loading; before workout take in a thermogenic and some AAs, then 2 sets before the workout is done take some AAs and pump out 2 sets of 50reps for the main muscle group you're working on - then after the workout load up w/ a protein shake, creatine, aas, dextrose

What suppliments would be benneficial?fiber, protein powder, most thermogenics, yohimbine hcl one of the best; all depending on long term goals

Overall, I think your idea can work well, you just have to tweak some things around and it would work. Try doing it in DAY cycling, like my protein/carb cycling manual.

Mr.X

 

[Deleted member 33117]

I'm not going to get into this arguement. Take a peak at my low-carb bulking thread for a few pointers.

 

[serbyte]

Does anyone have an opinion on this diet. Is there anything that should be added or subtracted? To me it is logical and should work, although Mr. X disagrees. Does anyone think that this would at all effective.