Confused...size=strength?

[LiftHeavy123]

There is a guy at the gym that doesn't look very big at all but is extremely strong.

460-500lb squat
300-400 bench

Not really cut either. What could explain this?

 

[joe d]

stegnth training. look at the difference between power lifting routines and body building routines. some of the worlds top power lifters look fat and out of shape. but they train just as hard wel actually harder than bb'ers.

 

[the_alcatraz]

They have nothing to do with each other.

In a perfect world, strength would be directly proportional to siez, because to a certain degree the bigger you are, the more you should be able to lift...HOWEVER, some powerlifters who compete at maybe 160 lbs can probably lift heavier than a bodybuilder who is 220 lbs....

 

[chazk]

usually power lifters can out lift bodybuilders in 1-3 rep range.
But most advanced bodybuilders train in the 8-12 rep range to stimulate growth
vs power lifters that train 1-3 reps to stimulate nuromuscular strenght

 

[the_alcatraz]

usually power lifters can out lift bodybuilders in 1-3 rep range.
But most advanced bodybuilders train in the 8-12 rep range to stimulate growth
vs power lifters that train 1-3 reps to stimulate nuromuscular strenght

Nowadays, it's becoming a lot more popular for bodybuilders to train with low volume...and they are still making huge gains (4-6 rep range)

 

[chazk]

Nowadays, it's becoming a lot more popular for bodybuilders to train with low volume...and they are still making huge gains (4-6 rep range)

yes very true, Most bodybuilders are in it for the long hual and the years it takes to build musclemass alog with following a diet that provides nutrition to grow.
Actually the best training for bodybuilders to target all muscle fibers involves a combination of white and red muscle fiber stimulation, just as you mentioned training low volume 4-6 and the classical 8-12 reps for a bodybuilder to build a soild dense body as well as conditioned physic.
as well as changing rep ranges ,excersizes to stimulate more muscle , is a huge part of bodybuilding

I have ecountered a situation just like the guy at his gym.
This guy is very strong in the low rep range pressed 550lbs at 250 lbs. But one day a contest was going on how many times you could press 225 lbs it was the gym owner doing a little contest with free membership awards . A guy that is similar size to him 250lbs and only bench presses 405 lbs almost 150 lbs less pressed 225 27 times. While the powerlifter guy was huffing and puffing after 12 reps and gave up at 15.

so these two guys that look very close to the same in size , one can bench press 225 twice as many times as the power lifter.
yet on the one rep max the power lifter out lifted him by almost 150 lbs

 

[Big_BK]

yes very true, Most bodybuilders are in it for the long hual and the years it takes to build musclemass alog with following a diet that provides nutrition to grow.
Actually the best training for bodybuilders to target all muscle fibers involves a combination of white and red muscle fiber stimulation, just as you mentioned training low volume 4-6 and the classical 8-12 reps for a bodybuilder to build a soild dense body as well as conditioned physic.
as well as changing rep ranges ,excersizes to stimulate more muscle , is a huge part of bodybuilding

I have ecountered a situation just like the guy at his gym.
This guy is very strong in the low rep range pressed 550lbs at 250 lbs. But one day a contest was going on how many times you could press 225 lbs it was the gym owner doing a little contest with free membership awards . A guy that is similar size to him 250lbs and only bench presses 405 lbs almost 150 lbs less pressed 225 27 times. While the powerlifter guy was huffing and puffing after 12 reps and gave up at 15.

so these two guys that look very close to the same in size , one can bench press 225 twice as many times as the power lifter.
yet on the one rep max the power lifter out lifted him by almost 150 lbs

If you train high reps for a few weeks you adapt cardio wise to it. When i did my 20 rep squats i had to work my way up to that each week with higher reps, not going straight from 1-6 reps to 20.

 

[lockdownd7]

They have nothing to do with each other.

In a perfect world, strength would be directly proportional to siez, because to a certain degree the bigger you are, the more you should be able to lift...HOWEVER, some powerlifters who compete at maybe 160 lbs can probably lift heavier than a bodybuilder who is 220 lbs....

They don't have nothing to do with each other; after all, a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. There are two ways to increase strength:

1) Increase muscle size
2) Increase motor unit recruitment within existing muscle

Both will increase your strength. If you get bigger, you will be stronger. However that doesn't mean that someone with better neurological efficiency can't lift more at a lighter weight.

 

[OneBreath]

yes very true, Most bodybuilders are in it for the long hual and the years it takes to build musclemass alog with following a diet that provides nutrition to grow.
Actually the best training for bodybuilders to target all muscle fibers involves a combination of white and red muscle fiber stimulation, just as you mentioned training low volume 4-6 and the classical 8-12 reps for a bodybuilder to build a soild dense body as well as conditioned physic.
as well as changing rep ranges ,excersizes to stimulate more muscle , is a huge part of bodybuilding

I have ecountered a situation just like the guy at his gym.
This guy is very strong in the low rep range pressed 550lbs at 250 lbs. But one day a contest was going on how many times you could press 225 lbs it was the gym owner doing a little contest with free membership awards . A guy that is similar size to him 250lbs and only bench presses 405 lbs almost 150 lbs less pressed 225 27 times. While the powerlifter guy was huffing and puffing after 12 reps and gave up at 15.

so these two guys that look very close to the same in size , one can bench press 225 twice as many times as the power lifter.
yet on the one rep max the power lifter out lifted him by almost 150 lbs

Someone told me this was the NFL strength test. Is that true? I'm kind of curious now as to how many times i could press 225.

 

[lockdownd7]

Someone told me this was the NFL strength test. Is that true? I'm kind of curious now as to how many times i could press 225.

Yea, it's one of the tests at the pre-draft combine. It's not a test of strength, so much as endurance though. And it has basically zero correlation with playing ability, so it's basically unnecessary. But anyway, I believe the record at the combine is ~50 reps.

 

[coolcolj]

read

part 1
The Relationship Between Size and Strength, Part 1

part 2
The Relationship Between Size and Strength, Part 2

 

[the_alcatraz]

They don't have nothing to do with each other; after all, a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. There are two ways to increase strength:

1) Increase muscle size
2) Increase motor unit recruitment within existing muscle

Both will increase your strength. If you get bigger, you will be stronger. However that doesn't mean that someone with better neurological efficiency can't lift more at a lighter weight.

I don't think so...

Someone who trains as a powerbuilder or a weightlifter will almost always be able to lift much heavier weights and will be stronger than an average bodybuilder, even if the bodybuilder is 20 lbs heavier than him...

The theory that the bigger your muscle the more weight you can lift only works if you are both bodybuilders or both powerlifters, anf if you ignore things like genetics, different training techniques, diet, and a whole bunch of other things....

Let's put it this way, ALL other things held constant and unchanging, the bigger your muscles, the stronger you are...

However, it doesnt work that way anymore because of everything I mentioned in my post.

 

[lockdownd7]

I don't think so...

Someone who trains as a powerbuilder or a weightlifter will almost always be able to lift much heavier weights and will be stronger than an average bodybuilder, even if the bodybuilder is 20 lbs heavier than him...

The theory that the bigger your muscle the more weight you can lift only works if you are both bodybuilders or both powerlifters, anf if you ignore things like genetics, different training techniques, diet, and a whole bunch of other things....

Let's put it this way, ALL other things held constant and unchanging, the bigger your muscles, the stronger you are...

However, it doesnt work that way anymore because of everything I mentioned in my post.

Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't referring to comparisons between individuals. My point was that, in an a given individual, more size = more strength. If YOU get bigger, YOU will be stronger than you were before. So there is a correlation between size and strength. However, as you noted, individuals vary greatly in their neurological efficiency (ability to recruit motor units), so obviously there is not a consistent correlation between individuals.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't referring to comparisons between individuals. My point was that, in an a given individual, more size = more strength. If YOU get bigger, YOU will be stronger than you were before. So there is a correlation between size and strength. However, as you noted, individuals vary greatly in their neurological efficiency (ability to recruit motor units), so obviously there is not a consistent correlation between individuals.

In that case, we are on the same line

 

[chazk]

Look at arnold vs franco . Franco benched presses 525 lbs at a body weight of 181 lbs with no bench shirt and held the world record for that weightclass for along time.
Arnold mentioned years later that Franco was much stronger and arnold personals best bench press was 495lbs at his peak weighing 245 lbs

So here we go again franco almost 65 lbs lighter pressed more weight then arnold.
Arnold had 21-22 inch arms and franco was 17 contest and 18 off season.

Muscle size depends alot of nutrition and calorie intake for size
If you eat like a bird and train for strenght you might get strong
but not grow very much.
Bodybuilding is more about stimulation for growth and nutrition for recovery of the muscle.

A Body builder with big arms might have genetically more red fibers meaning his arms lift loads for a longer time and thats what stimulates more growth in his arms
while a bodybuilder might have alot of white fibers in his arms meaning he grows off sudden burst of heavy weights.