Concrete/masonry work?

[TheProject]

Anyone out there know anything about concrete/masonry work?

I've got a 110 year old house that I'm having some work done on. Basically, a lot of the brick was falling out, and it needed to be torn out and redone. I called the same contractor my family and I have used for years, and they had their concrete guys come out and take care of the porch, and pour me a new front walk to the sidewalk.

Here's the problem: I think it looks like shit.

They're supposed to come out tomorrow, and clean up some more of the mortar, but it looks to me like it's glopped everywhere. They were supposed to replace 3 of the concrete slabs that sit on top of the brick but they "couldn't find the right size" and couldn't pour them right.

On top of that, the front section of the walk has trowel marks everywhere, and I don't think the walk is level at all. Doesn't look neat and clean, if that makes any sense.

So, here's my questions, if anyone knows:

1) Should I expect the masonry work to be messy?

2) Should there be trowel marks in new concrete?

This whole job is costing me more than $3K, so I want it to look good, but I don't know if my expectations are too high.

 

[FarBeyondDriven]

I am actually graduating this December with a Bachelor of Science degree in Concrete Industry Management.

1. Mortar work is messy. But excess mortar is generally easy to remove with a high pressure wash, with a little elbow grease. Those brick shelves might be hard to pour and impossible to replace with a standard item, due to age they were poured in place. It would be possible, they probably did not want to have to go through time consuming form work.

2. If it is an exterior exposed slab it should of been "broom" finished. Afer the concrete has initially set a broom is run across the surface to give it texture, prevent slips. Now many will use an edger (makes the side edges rounded) and leave a "picture-frame", some consider this aesthetically appealing. As far as a hard trowel or float marks minimal if any should be present. You would not want a hard trowel finish, like a wharhouse floor, on exterior slabs due to when they get wet they become like greased glass to walk on (can u say homeowners ins.) A broomed finish should typically remove any trowel marks that remain after using a float to acquire flatness.

Hope this was helpful. Although without a good understanding and pictures it is difficult to assess any problems. It will still be concrete, it is just better sometimes to find a quality contractor that specializes in a certain sector. Ever see stamped concrete, where they use a mold to put an impression on slabs that can look like bricks or cobblestones, now those are sweet.

 

[TheProject]

Thanks for the repsonse man!

He did say that the shelves on the top of the brick were tough to pour, and they kept chipping. He did form a couple of them, but he said they didn't work. If they can't be replaced, and I have to live with the work that's done, so be it. I'm going to talk to the contractor tomorrow, and see if they're going to adjust the cost if they can't do it the way they estimated.

As far as the mortar mess goes, I'll see how good a job they do cleaning it up tomorrow.

They did the broom finish on the square portion of the walk, and it looks okay, but the walk doesn't seem level to me. They did the picture frame, which is what I expected, but the surface just seems wavy to me. Broom finish or not, it should be level throughout, shouldn't it?

The front-most portion of the walk is kinda shaped like a wide blade putty knife, which is why they didn't broom finish it, I'm sure, but there's a lot of circular marks. I can understand I wouldn't want a hard trowel finish, but I expected something that looked fairly consistent throughout.

I was wishing I had a digital camera to take some pics, but I don't have one here. We'll see what the contractor says, and I'm planning on borrowing one of the cameras from work.

 

[FarBeyondDriven]

As far as "level" not really. There should be a consistent fall directing all the water in a desired direction. Now if you are talking about dips in the middle of the walk no there shouldn't be. The best way to evaluate this is with a garden hose, simply spray it down with water and see if any water puddles form on the slab.

The sad thing about concrete work is the people who generally actually perform the work are underpayed, uneducated, unable to speak English, and do not give a damn what it looks like. Quality contractors are hard to find, especially in concrete work because it is back breaking work.

Good luck man and don't hesitate asking anything else. I may not have a career yet but this college education is really paying off

 

[Kahn]

Far Beyond Driven might know the schoolin part but I'm tellin ya from doing, masonry can and should look good. I'm talkin fininshed product after the leads, corners, and drops have been thrown in the equation. It should look like a new everything, afterall, it is. You have the right to look like a new whatever. Look at a new whatever you have and it better look like that for 3k. If it isn't level, they should have dug deeper and put in more sand and brought their level to the job. My house is also 100+ and my shit is straight. Its done right with expansion joints and everything. Lathe and plaster is gone and drywall is in, electrical is upgraded and load bearing wall was removed and suported by a custom I-beam. Demand what you want

 

[FarBeyondDriven]

Kahn, you are correct, but expect to pay a price for what you want also, the major renavations you performed were costly I would say.
I also have 10 years experience in the field. Matching new brick to old brick is difficult, especially in piece work. Besides the match the mortar work and placement should be quality.
Seeing you are speaking from your experience, are all residential contractors quality. I have seen some pretty bad crap go into commercial and pubic buildings.

 

[Kahn]

Oh jesus, are you ever right about the shit work that people do. I can't believe there are so many people that do not care or do not know. Incredible, sometimes scarey. Yup, you wouldn't think there would be that much diff between two bricks would you? Yes costly would have been an understatement if I didn't do it myself. Next yr I am redoing the kitchen and drywalling the two floor hallway after removing the lathe and plaster. Still have to pour a drive sometime( hope there is insulaton in the kitchen walls)

 

[FarBeyondDriven]

I want to buy a fixer once I get a little settled in my career. I think I am going to wind up in Baltimore, but maybe Ft. Lauderdale. It is great because you can live in it while you do the work and eventually have a masterpiece or a sizable profit.
The worst thing here in TN is the development of a hispanic population. Although work ethic in simple task is ussually good you cannot explain or give directions to most. I have learned some simples like given measurements, tools, and some damn good profanity.

 

[TheProject]

Thanks for the responses guys!

I see what you're saying about directing water away from the walk, but it seems like there are dips and valleys. It's not consistent. I'll try the water test once it's dry.

At least they don't have to match the brick. They're reusing all the original, and I've got a stack they can pull from if they need it.

The estimate was for pulling down most of the brick, down to the broken portions, and rebuilding. The brick itself is not broken, the mortar's just come out over the years. They also included replacing 3 of the slabs on the top of the brick. Instead, they pieced it all back together.

I just got off the phone with the contractor, and the owner of the company (who also did the estimate) is going to go by and take a look at it. His daughter didn't know if it'd be today or tomorrow, but he's going to go by. I'm taking pictures tonight, just in case. These guys have always done right by me before, so I expect they'll take care of it.

Oh, and to top it all off, they neatly deposited the broken concrete in my back yard. I have a slightly recessed area, and they put the old concrete back in there, basically flattened it out, and left it.

 

[TheProject]

Oh jesus, are you ever right about the shit work that people do. I can't believe there are so many people that do not care or do not know. Incredible, sometimes scarey. Yup, you wouldn't think there would be that much diff between two bricks would you? Yes costly would have been an understatement if I didn't do it myself. Next yr I am redoing the kitchen and drywalling the two floor hallway after removing the lathe and plaster. Still have to pour a drive sometime( hope there is insulaton in the kitchen walls)

I'm getting ready to redo my kitchen, and I know there's no insulation in there. I have one room that's insulated, and that's because I did it myself.

I've redone and had the contractors redo a lot of stuff already, but I'm nowhere near done.

A few years ago, they had to come out, jack up half the house, and put in a support beam. Seems the guy that had the house years ago took out a support wall to make a room bigger. Over the years, the whole thing started to sag, and we found out afterwards that the whole side of the house could've collapsed.

 

[TheProject]

Here's the latest on the concrete work:

The owner came by and took a look at it after they'd done some cleanup, and he's asked them to come by and clean off some more of the mortar tomorrow. He thinks the walk is okay, so I'm gonna do the water test as soon as it's all dry. The city's doing the sidewalk at the same time, so I don't want to screw that up.

Turns out the portion with the trowel marks got visited by a stray cat, and they had to smooth it out afterwards. They did the best they could, but they're gonna grind it smooth tomorrow.

They're also still looking for a new cap to go on the north part of the porch. Right now, it's mortared over, so it looks okay, but they're still gonna try and replace it.

And, they hauled off the old concrete.

The owner was very cool about the whole thing, and wanted to make sure I was happy with it all.

Only thing left is a small space at the end of my walk that's supposed to adjoin to the sidwalk.

Thanks again for the input, guys.