clomid throughout cycle

[xxxl2]

Have a clomid question? I just started my cycle 9 days ago. I did a front load of 1000mg test enth and 800mg deca and will be doing 250mg test enth and 200mg deca every 4 days for 8 weeks. (every 4 days because easier with my work schedule) Weeks 6-10 winny 50mg ed. My question is should I take clomid every day 50mg throughout the cycle and for 3 weeks after. What are the pros and the cons of doing it throughout or just post cycle. I have no novaldex( I know I should) will the clomid prevent gyno and water retention? Will it hinder growth if used throughout? Will it still help with restarting test production if I use it this way?
Thanks for all of your help.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Testosterone production begins at the hypothalamus,which scans blood levels of estrogens,androgens and other pertinent hormones.In a presence of low androgens and estrogens the hypothalamus will produce leutenizing-hormone-releasing-hormone(LHRH)which in turn stimulates the pituitary to produce leutenizing hormone(LH).LH then signals the leydig cells in the testicles to begin producing testosterone.Hence the Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis(more commonly referred to as H-P-T-A),as production is ran in that particular order.Now on to the clomid...

Clomid is a selective estrogen receptor modulator(much like nolvadex,only their binding capacities are more aggressive in seperate areas).Clomid stimulates L-H-R-H/LH production by binding to ESTROGEN receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary,thus giving the illusion of a low presence of circulating estrogen.Note the key word here-ESTROGEN.CLOMID DOES NOT BIND ANDROGEN.Therefore,on a cycle of moderate to high amounts of ANDROGENS,clomid will have no effect whatsoever on endogenous testosterone production,as we are in a state of ANDROGENIC inhibition.It's post cycle,when blood levels of androgens begin to normalize and the typical estrogenic rebound/lag occurs,that clomid is able to re-initialize this process of testosterone production.Hope this clears up how clomid works and why to save it for post cycle,unless you're using it as an anti-estrogen...

How do we know when to administer clomid therapy,and how much should we use to get the desired effects?First you have to figure out the activity life/clearance time of your particular ester.They don't have to be completely cleared from your system,just enough that androgen levels are within normal to high normal ranges.For instance sust's longest acting and most potent ester,the undecanoate ester clears your system in roughly 3-4 weeks.So beginning clomid therapy 3 weeks after your last injection would be ideal.This is the pattern I would run my clomid in...

Day 1)300mgs...2 tabs every 4 hours or so.This will drive up blood levels of the drug for an immediate "therapeutic" response(one that would normally take many consecutive days of usage to be reached)and get the drug working aggressively towards re-initializing endogenous hormonal production.

Days 2-11)100mgs/day(bothtabs can be taken together now,as it's half life is so long it will make no difference...

Days 12-21)50mgs/day...

Day 22)DONE!

 

[PARABOLAN]

i would only use it post cycle...

 

[DOM]

Quote from HUCK
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Clomid stimulates L-H-R-H/LH production by binding to ESTROGEN receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary,thus giving the illusion of a low presence of circulating estrogen.Note the key word here-ESTROGEN.CLOMID DOES NOT BIND ANDROGEN.Therefore,on a cycle of moderate to high amounts of ANDROGENS,clomid will have no effect whatsoever on endogenous testosterone production,as we are in a state of ANDROGENIC inhibition.It's post cycle,when blood levels of androgens begin to normalize and the typical estrogenic rebound/lag occurs,that clomid is able to re-initialize this process of testosterone production
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Clomid will cause endogenous test production in the middle of a cycle even on powerful androgens. You say right in your own explanation that it stimulates LH production and that is all you need for endogenous test production.

If you use clomid throughout your cycle, it will prevent testicular atrophy altogether, but upon cessation of clomid after your cycle, the higher than normal levels of test will cause atrophy. There is no way to avoid this period of atrophy after a cycle.

If you use it after cycle, your nuts will already have atrophied and you will need a large dose of clomid to start endogenous test production. There may be some benefit of clomid during a cycle because the HPT slowdown/shutdown will not be as severe, and thus it may not take as long to get normal test levels again.

 

[Ercole]

The authorities seem to agree Clomid should not be used for more than a week or two. Unless you're tying to ovulate ...

 

[Nimrod25]

The authorities seem to agree Clomid should not be used for more than a week or two. Unless you're tying to ovulate ...

Yeah Bro, but we are not women. So ur point is mute.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Quote from HUCK
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Clomid stimulates L-H-R-H/LH production by binding to ESTROGEN receptors on the hypothalamus and pituitary,thus giving the illusion of a low presence of circulating estrogen.Note the key word here-ESTROGEN.CLOMID DOES NOT BIND ANDROGEN.Therefore,on a cycle of moderate to high amounts of ANDROGENS,clomid will have no effect whatsoever on endogenous testosterone production,as we are in a state of ANDROGENIC inhibition.It's post cycle,when blood levels of androgens begin to normalize and the typical estrogenic rebound/lag occurs,that clomid is able to re-initialize this process of testosterone production
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clomid will cause endogenous test production in the middle of a cycle even on powerful androgens. You say right in your own explanation that it stimulates LH production and that is all you need for endogenous test production.

If you use clomid throughout your cycle, it will prevent testicular atrophy altogether, but upon cessation of clomid after your cycle, the higher than normal levels of test will cause atrophy. There is no way to avoid this period of atrophy after a cycle.

If you use it after cycle, your nuts will already have atrophied and you will need a large dose of clomid to start endogenous test production. There may be some benefit of clomid during a cycle because the HPT slowdown/shutdown will not be as severe, and thus it may not take as long to get normal test levels again.

Wrong,wrong,wrong...Dom,I suggest you go back to the research books.One of the first things you will learn about testosterone inhibition is that it is not only an ESTROGENIC process,but ANDROGENIC as well.Clomid stimulates LH production ONLY WHEN ELEVATED ESTROGEN IS THE CULPRIT FOR INHIBITION,such as is commonly found post cycle,after androgen levels have tapered off to normal ranges.You are kidding yourself silly if you think that clomid will keep your endogenous T production churning when your body has 10 times the amount of androgens swimming around in it than it would normally produce on its own.Endocrinologist Dr.Raymond Scruggs has the chart work of hundreds of bodybuilders to confirm this,and he concludes that clomid WILL NOT keep GRH/LH production functioning while a strong presence of androgens is present.Sorry my friend,but you are dead WRONG.

 

[Nimrod25]

Sorry DOM, Huck is 100% right.

 

[Zyglamail]

Im with Huck on this one as well.

 

[DOM]

OK, I found some studies convincing me I'm wrong and I was operating on old info, but I have some questions now.

If clomid is acting antagonist to HPT e-receptors, and HPT is producing LHRH, why doesn't it translate into endogenous test production? Androgen inhibition at the pituitary? At the testes?

Sorry for the misinformation.

 

[xxxl2]

How about the antiestogen properties of clomid to reduce the chance of gyno and water retention throughout a cycle even if it doen not help maintain natural test production?

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Yep,now you're on the right track-An abundance of ANDROGENS present at the hypothalamus and pituitary signals both of these glands that no further male hormones need to be produced.These androgens substitute any production needed,and shut down the endogenous process.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

How about the antiestogen properties of clomid to reduce the chance of gyno and water retention throughout a cycle even if it doen not help maintain natural test production?

Yes,this will work,but arimidex and nolvadex are better suited for the purpose.

 

[Nimrod25]

OK, I found some studies convincing me I'm wrong and I was operating on old info, but I have some questions now.

If clomid is acting antagonist to HPT e-receptors, and HPT is producing LHRH, why doesn't it translate into endogenous test production? Androgen inhibition at the pituitary? At the testes?

Sorry for the misinformation.

Test production is halted due to the multi-level shutting down of the hpta both at the pituitary and the testes. Since clomid only prevents inhibition by blocking estrogen related shutdown and not androgen related shutdown it is useless on cycle except as an anti-gyno agent, although its binding to the ER in the breast is not a strong as nolvadex.