CKD Questions.

[Paulos]

I did a search on CKD trying to learn what I can before I posted, but I had some questions reguarding the Diet. Here's some info on myself before we get started so you have an idea what I with.

Age - 19
Weight - 225
Bodyfat - 17%



Here are my questions...

1. The initial stage of setting yourself into ketosis should be accomplished with a 20/0/80 ratio of p/c/f correct? If so will it have to remain at this ratio or will I be able to adjust it to a higher protein split, like 30/0/70?

2. When on a CKD can I follow my normal training routine?

3. I don't completely understand refeeds, are you supposed to go 6 days Ketosis, One Day refeed? Also, If my daily caloric intake is supposed to be 2700 (according to Bodyweight x 12) would my refeed day intake change at all? And what would be the macronutrient breakdown for the refeed day?



I think that is it for now, If I left anything important out please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Paulos]

Bump.

 

[georgie24]

this is the fastest way to gain knowledge *search button*









btw no flame intended

 

[Paulos]

Read the first 5 words of my post.

 

[georgie24]

you son of a........j/king lol

i did a weekend long search on keto diets and my eyes are burning from the insomnia good luck bro if i find any more info on your post ill hook ya up tomorrow. but right now i gotta get some

 

[Paulos]

Thanks.

 

[Paulos]

I read a couple Articles on this...would still like answers if anyone can please. Also on the refeed days does it matter what kind of carbs you use? Can I eat Simple and Complex? Or Stick to Low GI complex Carbs? And Should the refeed should be 20-50% above maintinence calories, NOT diet Calories, correct?

 

[Hollyw00d]

DIET

Ok man, no one was really helping you so I thought i'd throw in a little of my knowledge. I'm not by far an expert on the CKD but I've used it plenty of times to much success. Here goes.
Yes, 80/20/0 to get into Ketosis. Use ALA to help speed that up, 300g per meal to be safe. Wed-Fri go with higher protein. I've gone up to 50% of calories and stayed in Ketosis. Monitor your sticks.

According to Duchaine your refeed starts Friday nighta nd goes to Sunday afternoon. Personally I eat everything in sight for those days. I think you are supposed to go with High Glycemic Friday and Sat morning. Then go to Low GI Saturday evening into Sunday. By Sunday dinner go abck to no carbs. Also, on your carb up meals take in 900+g of ALA to really fill your muscles. The stuff works wonders. Ramp yourself up though to that dose.
Your training should not change, at least it doesn't have to.

Hope that helps and if anyone can correct me on anything go ahead.

 

[Paulos]

Thank You Hollyw00d, I read the Article by Mr. X too. I think I have enough info to get me started.

 

[georgie24]

Thank You Hollyw00d, I read the Article by Mr. X too. I think I have enough info to get me started.

also you can read kak's article it in tha anabolic section today

 

[_jaap_]

Also try to look up some info on leptin, will help u understand the refeeds a lot better.

 

[Paulos]

Ok Sweet, Thanks guys. I started today but I overdid the protein a tad...150g First day...maybe I need to eat pure mayo or something.

Oh Well, I got two workouts today so not that big a deal.

 

[Paulos]

I Can't find the Kak Article, Could anyone leave the link here please? Thanks.

 

[Paulos]

Sorry to keep bumping this but one more question came to mind.

I know excess protein can knock you out of ketosis, but is this less of a concern if you are keeping your carbs at absolutely zero?

If I understand correctly protein converts to glucose at a 58% rate, therefore lets say my "tolerance" of carbs is 15g before I leave ketosis would you have to worry less about having maybe 20g of protein because if it's excess it would only be a conversion of about 12g Carbs? Anyone understand what I'm saying?

 

[Paulos]

Bump, Would really like the last question answered, then I'll shut the fuck up.

 

[plornive]

Sorry to keep bumping this but one more question came to mind.

I know excess protein can knock you out of ketosis, but is this less of a concern if you are keeping your carbs at absolutely zero?

If I understand correctly protein converts to glucose at a 58% rate, therefore lets say my "tolerance" of carbs is 15g before I leave ketosis would you have to worry less about having maybe 20g of protein because if it's excess it would only be a conversion of about 12g Carbs? Anyone understand what I'm saying?

First of all, fat does not need to be high to be in ketosis. It is only used to limit the caloric deficit and prevent a drastic downregulation of basal metabolic rate. ketosis is maintained by limiting the amount of glucose in the blood. When you start out, it is probably best to eat about 1g protein per lb of lean body mass and no carbs (since carbs are guaranteed to end up in blood as glucose). I would say protein has the same cumulative risk at any time, but the baseline is higher if you are already eating carbs.

In other words, carbs will always end up in the blood as glucose, but protein is not always converted to glucose at a rate of .58. This rate can be lower if the body doesn't "ask" for glucose. The body may start asking for glucose if blood glucose becomes high enough. Capiche?

 

[Paulos]

Got it, I really Appreciate your help.

 

[coolcolj]

check this page out


http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/

 

[plornive]

great link. EXCEPT, I have Lyle's book, and he modifies the requirements for ketosis. Fat intake is not required to maintain ketosis, as bodyfat is mobilized if blood sugar is low enough anyway. The 75% fat theory came from the book Body Opus.

 

[110%]

ok i have a question, ih ave read several places use ALA with the first one or two days of dieting with the 80/20 and 70/30 fat/pro breakdwons, but why is ALA so much useful in speeding up time till ketosis if you are taking in no carbs and very little glucose from the protein, is it just used for the little amount of glucose from the protein?

 

[Bobarell]

I am not positive, but from what I have read it helps to drain your body of what glucose it has.

So to get into Ketosis you are draining your body of as much glucose as possible so you start to burn fat instead. What the ALA does is speeds up the process of burning/distributing the glucose. That is how I interpretted it from all the other posts here, but like I said"I am not positive"

 

[Paulos]

Just got some Ketostix, Tested Purple after the 15 seconds. I've had absolutely no carbs since Sunday, doing well so far. Seems everyday I can eat less and less calories and be satisfied. This diet is the severe ownage so far.


Question - Is keeping your fat down on refeed days only to keep your total daily caloric intake from going through the roof or does it serve some other purpose?

 

[Bobarell]

You keep your fat down because it is the biggest sin when dieting to eat carbs and fat together.

 

[Kid Dynamite]

Yes, ALA helps to clear blood glucose. Not as quick as insulin, but quicker than nothing at all.
-You keep fat down because you want high insulin levels, and yeah you don't want to add alot of fat calories when you go above maintenece w/ carbs. Say your maintence is 3000, you want 50% above, so you eat 4500kcals for a carb-up. If you ate alot of fat, you'd only have so much room to stay at 4500kcal from carbs/pro. Some fat is okay, you do actually need some, just don't eat something like fettucine alfredo. And if you follow a 48 hr. recarb, eat the fat in the meals that fall after the first 18 - 24 hrs, basically when you stop the high GI initial carb up.
-To enter ketosis quick and keep the drop in kcals, you need to drop protein. Say you're shooting for 2000 kcal/day. If you weigh 200lbs. and want to hit 200g pro, that's 800kcal. 1200 left for fat. This will take longer to get into ketosis. Once you establish ketosis, you can usually up your pro to this w/no problems, but alot of people enter quicker if they keep pro down for 1 - 2 days.

 

[plornive]

ok i have a question, ih ave read several places use ALA with the first one or two days of dieting with the 80/20 and 70/30 fat/pro breakdwons, but why is ALA so much useful in speeding up time till ketosis if you are taking in no carbs and very little glucose from the protein, is it just used for the little amount of glucose from the protein?

I am curious about that, too. The only thing I can think of is that since the *blood* has less blood sugar and ALA may push glucose into muscle cells before the liver, the liver will start producing ketones earlier (production of ketones = state of ketosis) than if the blood/liver was allowed to hold more of the body's glucose-based energy.

All I know is that it seems to work for most people. Also, some people cannot get into ketosis if they use too much vanadyl. The opposite is true for me.