Choosing the right approach

[Roff]

Hi, I'm 22yo, have been lifting on and off since I was 18, however I've started taking it seriously one year ago. I am 5'6, 165lbs, about 20% BF, I have been cutting for 4 weeks so far using lean gains (this is not a lean gains thread, just mentioning). I was seriously thinking about AAS, did brief research for the first cycle but I still would like to get some advices tho. My current lifting stats are: bench press: 148.5lbs x 6, squat: 154lbs x 6, deadlift: 176lbs x 3. I train 3 times a week. Basically my goal is to cut down to visible abs (8%-10% if possible) and put some (even a little bit) muscle by the end of June (if possible). I was thinking about cycle of Anavar for fat loss, with test (to prevent libido drops) but after some research it turns out that apparently Anavar is just overpriced, and doesn't do much (yet has very low level of side effects). Another approach would be to continue cutting naturally (but that could take ages) and then when I'm down to 8%-10%, run test cycle for lean mass. But then I'm not too sure if I would achieve my goal by June (eventually mid July).

Thanks!

 

[zwhit]

using AAS would be jumping the gun, imo. judging by your lifting numbers, you could easily make gains without. hit up the diet and lifting sections and get those dialed in before jumping on a cycle. you'll be glad you did so that you can make the most of your cycle when that time comes

 

[Roff]

thanks zwhit, yeah my lifts are pretty much beginner, so I will listen to your advice and stick to natural for a while then, what would be the point when I should start consider taking AAS? Would it be when I reach lifts like: bench press 120% of my weigh, squat 160% of my weight and deadlifts 200% ? Apparently thats intermediate stats, or just when I stop making gains (which could be in couple of years). Also, btw, some people say that I should keep cutting now till I'm 8-10% BF, then clean bulk as apparently its easier to bulk on low BF, on the other hand, people say to keep bulking without cutting, for years and cut when there will be quite a lot of muscles there. I couldnt post my current picture as I dont have enough posts, but considering that I'm 20%, is there a chance to drop BF to 8-10% naturally and gain some mass in about 3 months? Thanks

 

[Jbranken]

Good idea bro, lay off the aas. At what point should you start using? Well, unfortunately you're looking for a quick fix here. Your goals are body recomposition, which is simultaneous muscle gain/fat loss. This takes time, great dieting, and a lot of effort. Aas is for the advanced lifter who is looking to take it to the next level, not a beginner. There are tons of natty sups out there and with your natural hormone levels, you could achieve a lot in just a few short years. If you're still serious at that time, you can consider aas then.

 

[buddhabuilder]

You are right in the way you devloped your idea into focusing on training and diet till your down around 12%. This will take some time, but you will find strong comaradere among other lifters in the training and diet sections of this site. Put up your current training split and diet for feedback, or do some research and try something new. The posibilities are endless.

 

[Roff]

thanks a lot, I guess I will stick to creatine for now lol, thanks for putting me on the right path so I wont make some irreversible mistakes.

My diet is set up with lean gains, basically I cycle carbs on workout days, little or no carbs but fats on rest days, 2100kCal on workout days, and 1100kCal on rest, on both days, high protein intake. I keep track of my weight and bodyfat and readjust the diet weekly.

I train in simple way, low volume, heavy weights, I try to avoid machines (only chest flys machine and leg extentions) and focus mainly on compound movements like squats, bench presses, deadlifts and rows (sometimes OH presses), dips and chins. I pay loads of attention to proper form, my lifts are pretty much stock atm as I'm cutting I dont progress with weights just try to maintain current, when I'm down to about 10% I will start clean bulk.
Once again, thanks!

 

[zwhit]

thanks a lot, I guess I will stick to creatine for now lol, thanks for putting me on the right path so I wont make some irreversible mistakes.

My diet is set up with lean gains, basically I cycle carbs on workout days, little or no carbs but fats on rest days, 2100kCal on workout days, and 1100kCal on rest, on both days, high protein intake. I keep track of my weight and bodyfat and readjust the diet weekly.

I train in simple way, low volume, heavy weights, I try to avoid machines (only chest flys machine and leg extentions) and focus mainly on compound movements like squats, bench presses, deadlifts and rows (sometimes OH presses), dips and chins. I pay loads of attention to proper form, my lifts are pretty much stock atm as I'm cutting I dont progress with weights just try to maintain current, when I'm down to about 10% I will start clean bulk.
Once again, thanks!

I think that's a waste at your current level. keeping your carbs so low is likely why your lifts are where they are. you'll likely reach your goal of 10% bf pretty quickly but you'll probably be A LOT smaller than you want. I'm betting you could put on significant muscle without gaining much bodyfat if you increased your carbs to slightly over maintenance.

however, you will get to 10% bf pretty quickly with your current approach but don't expect to make many gains in the way of strength/muscle mass. I get really frustrated when my strength tanks and I get really flat and depleted.

 

[Roff]

thanks zwhit, the reason why I've focused on loosing BF first, was that people say its easier to gain strenght and mass later on cuz I will be more sensitive to the insulin.

What would you consider slightly over maintenance with carbs in my case? I would prefer to stick to IF/leangains even when slow bulking as it really works for me

 

[Jbranken]

Well I think your training regiment is def on the right track but like zwhit pointed out, you're robbing yourself of gains. If it would make you feel better, get down to 12% then up those healthy carbs and start a good lean bulk from there.

 

[Roff]

This is my current picture:

I really prefer to bulk, I love to add on more weight, love to track progress and see gains, however I never ever had a proper sixpack, and that was my goal for this summer, people on the different forum told me that I am about 20%, I would even consider getting my BF down to 15% and then clean bulk (or bulk with lean gains as apparently you dont get fat on it - at least not as much - however it takes much longer to gain) and then maybe do 12 days of crash diet PMSF or RFL to get rid of some after bulk fat, but if I have only about 3 months to somehow make my body look better, its really hard to choose, basically in July I will have massive family reunion and wanted to look as good as I could for this event. I know yohimbine could help a bit for fat loss but at my stage it would be waste of money as its more for stubborn fat

 

[-SD-]

You should start using roids in exactly 3657 days

 

[zwhit]

This is my current picture:

I really prefer to bulk, I love to add on more weight, love to track progress and see gains, however I never ever had a proper sixpack, and that was my goal for this summer, people on the different forum told me that I am about 20%, I would even consider getting my BF down to 15% and then clean bulk (or bulk with lean gains as apparently you dont get fat on it - at least not as much - however it takes much longer to gain) and then maybe do 12 days of crash diet PMSF or RFL to get rid of some after bulk fat, but if I have only about 3 months to somehow make my body look better, its really hard to choose, basically in July I will have massive family reunion and wanted to look as good as I could for this event. I know yohimbine could help a bit for fat loss but at my stage it would be waste of money as its more for stubborn fat

if you just get your diet and routine in order, you could make gains in strength and mass as well as lose some body fat as long as you keep it clean. this extreme low carb is so hard for me to stick to not to mention keeping you weak

 

[Roff]

zwhit, at the moment it looks like this: calories I need: about 1980kCal, on workout days its 2130kCal: 150g Proteins, 300g Carbs, 30g Fat, on rest days its 1100kCal: 160g Proteins, 30g Carbs, 52g Fat. Maintaining my current lifts so far, no progression unfortunately, but my body weight drops down, so I am assuming I am losing fat.

However, if I do body recomposition instead of cut, in leangains style, where I would apparently grow muscles and loose fat at the same time, this is how it would look like: on the rest days: 1550kCal, 150g Protein, 50g Carbs, 85g Fat, on the workout days: 2350kCal, 150g Protein, 350g Carbs, 35g Fats. But apparently to start body recomposition I supposed to be at about 15-18% bodyfat. I use this IF thing where I fast for 16h then have feeding window for 8h.

 

[Jbranken]

You should start using roids in exactly 3657 days

Tallying on my wall as we speak..

 

[joeblow12345]

Bro fuck counting cals at this point. It doesn't matter for you. Your at the very beginning stages of bulking. Your only focus should be on taking in 300 grams of protein a day and as many carbs as you can pound down with some good fats sprinkled in there. This isn't a license to eat crap, all your food should come from quality sources. Like beef, poultry, fish, eggs, greens, sweet potatoes, yams, beans,regular potatoes, rice( white and brown), peanut butter, you get the idea. You should be stuffing your face all day long,and the scale should be moving weekly. If the scale isn't moving eat more. If your hungry your wrong. Even if your full keep pounding food. There is no point in you cutting. No offense bro, but there's nothing to cut, only skin and bones with some baby fat. For the next few years do heavy compound moves in the gym and pound food.

 

[-SD-]

Bro fuck counting cals at this point. It doesn't matter for you. Your at the very beginning stages of bulking. Your only focus should be on taking in 300 grams of protein a day and as many carbs as you can pound down with some good fats sprinkled in there. This isn't a license to eat crap, all your food should come from quality sources. Like beef, poultry, fish, eggs, greens, sweet potatoes, yams, beans,regular potatoes, rice( white and brown), peanut butter, you get the idea. You should be stuffing your face all day long,and the scale should be moving weekly. If the scale isn't moving eat more. If your hungry your wrong. Even if your full keep pounding food. There is no point in you cutting. No offense bro, but there's nothing to cut, only skin and bones with some baby fat. For the next few years do heavy compound moves in the gym and pound food.

Exactly bro. I mean no offense but he looks like a 12 year old boy but is going about this like a competitive BB when be should just keep it simple. Stick to compound mass building workouts, focus on heavy weight with decent form, throw in couple days cardio for health purposes, eat mostly clean animal meats and fruits/veg, rice, oatmeal, etc

Its not rocket science when you are at his stage

 

[stevesmi]

you are way too raw in your pics. your biggest obstacle is your started lifting late in life. but not THAT late where you cant make great gains the next few years.. gotta get your body fat down first though before you can focus on bulking