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carbs and muscle?
- Thread starter fitmedic
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SteelWeaver
New member
Carbs are complex, fm. There are lots of factors to take into account, the first being overall caloric status, and body composition goals. The second being your insulin sensitivity (or this may be first, but anyway, it's important). I'm still barely scratching the surface in what there is to know about using carbs intelligently, but I'll try and describe some of the cool things they do in the body.
The main thing carbs do when they hit the blood stream is raise insulin levels by increasing blood sugar levels - that's good up to a point for bodybuilders because insulin is supposed to be one of the most anabolic substances around. Insulin unlocks the gates on muscle cells and allows glucose in the blood stream to be sucked up into them, creating an anabolic state (please don't ask me exactly what the glucose does there to do that - I can't remember right now, but it's also the main fuel for muscle contractions). Anyway - it's GOOD. BUT, insulin unlocks the fat cells at the same time
Genetics, level of fitness, caloric status, and some other stuff determine what percentage of the glucose goes to muscle cells and what percentage goes to fat cells. One of the cool things about r-ALA is that it directs MORE of the glucose to muscle cells - voila! better anabolism and less fat deposition.
The other thing that carbs do in the body is spare protein. In a hypocaloric state, and in the absence of carbs, the body's preferred fuel, the body will either go to making ketones if you're eating high fat, low-ish protein, for fuel, or will use protein for gluconeogenesis i.e. break protein (muscle, or dietary protein) down into glucose.
So, the upshot basically in a nutshell is: when attempting to gain muscle mass, more carbs = more muscle, because of a) the energy they provide for extremely intense workouts, and b) the anabolic effect of insulin release. BUT, care needs to be taken to not overdo the type and amount of carbs, because fat deposition is always faster than protein synthesis
It's much more complex when dieting. The aim when dieting is to attempt to maintain muscle mass whilst losing fat. Weight training will signal the body to spare muscle mass. For intense weight training you need carbs. No carbs = lacklustre workouts (for me, anyway - I've heard others swear otherwise). But insulin spikes send carbs to fat cells .... I've read lots of debates about if fat can actually be stored this way whilst hypocaloric, but haven't figured out if there's an answer yet or not ... Too many (especially high GI) carbs will increase appetite - not a good thing when dieting. But carbs will spare protein when calories are restricted. So it all comes down to finding the right balance.
I don't know how much of this you already know. It's kind of good for me to write it down, so I can see where the gaps are in what I know. Anyway, if you're trying to gain muscle, eat enough complex carbs, and time them carefully around your workouts. I eat starchy carbs for breakfast, pre-workout, simple or complex post-workout, and fibrous the rest of the time. It still works out to quite a lot of carbs, but I'm not getting fat as fast as I did last time I did this, and I'm starting to get muscle bulges in areas I didn't have them before.
The main thing carbs do when they hit the blood stream is raise insulin levels by increasing blood sugar levels - that's good up to a point for bodybuilders because insulin is supposed to be one of the most anabolic substances around. Insulin unlocks the gates on muscle cells and allows glucose in the blood stream to be sucked up into them, creating an anabolic state (please don't ask me exactly what the glucose does there to do that - I can't remember right now, but it's also the main fuel for muscle contractions). Anyway - it's GOOD. BUT, insulin unlocks the fat cells at the same time
Genetics, level of fitness, caloric status, and some other stuff determine what percentage of the glucose goes to muscle cells and what percentage goes to fat cells. One of the cool things about r-ALA is that it directs MORE of the glucose to muscle cells - voila! better anabolism and less fat deposition.The other thing that carbs do in the body is spare protein. In a hypocaloric state, and in the absence of carbs, the body's preferred fuel, the body will either go to making ketones if you're eating high fat, low-ish protein, for fuel, or will use protein for gluconeogenesis i.e. break protein (muscle, or dietary protein) down into glucose.
So, the upshot basically in a nutshell is: when attempting to gain muscle mass, more carbs = more muscle, because of a) the energy they provide for extremely intense workouts, and b) the anabolic effect of insulin release. BUT, care needs to be taken to not overdo the type and amount of carbs, because fat deposition is always faster than protein synthesis
It's much more complex when dieting. The aim when dieting is to attempt to maintain muscle mass whilst losing fat. Weight training will signal the body to spare muscle mass. For intense weight training you need carbs. No carbs = lacklustre workouts (for me, anyway - I've heard others swear otherwise). But insulin spikes send carbs to fat cells .... I've read lots of debates about if fat can actually be stored this way whilst hypocaloric, but haven't figured out if there's an answer yet or not ... Too many (especially high GI) carbs will increase appetite - not a good thing when dieting. But carbs will spare protein when calories are restricted. So it all comes down to finding the right balance.
I don't know how much of this you already know. It's kind of good for me to write it down, so I can see where the gaps are in what I know. Anyway, if you're trying to gain muscle, eat enough complex carbs, and time them carefully around your workouts. I eat starchy carbs for breakfast, pre-workout, simple or complex post-workout, and fibrous the rest of the time. It still works out to quite a lot of carbs, but I'm not getting fat as fast as I did last time I did this, and I'm starting to get muscle bulges in areas I didn't have them before.
Hey FitMedic- I'll keep it simple:
Carbs are protein sparing which means that your body will use carbs for energy and spare the protein for muscle repair and growth. Hows that for you?
When you are in a muscle gaining mode the added carbs allow you to lift heavy and stimulate growth.
When you are in a leaning out mode some of your carbs are replaced with protein and your body will use some of the protein for energy. The increased protein allows your body to tap into stored bodyfat by keeping insulin levels low.
Carbs are cheaper than protein so that is another good reason to run on them when wanting to increase lbm. Still want to get enough protein, just don't want to waste it.-valerie
CARBS=MORE WORK=MORE MUSCLE
Carbs are protein sparing which means that your body will use carbs for energy and spare the protein for muscle repair and growth. Hows that for you?
When you are in a muscle gaining mode the added carbs allow you to lift heavy and stimulate growth.
When you are in a leaning out mode some of your carbs are replaced with protein and your body will use some of the protein for energy. The increased protein allows your body to tap into stored bodyfat by keeping insulin levels low.
Carbs are cheaper than protein so that is another good reason to run on them when wanting to increase lbm. Still want to get enough protein, just don't want to waste it.-valerie
CARBS=MORE WORK=MORE MUSCLE
i know it's hard to answer when you don't know my diet (which is very clean) but as a rule if I wanna pack on the muscle approximately how many carbs/day should I be having and for how long should I stay in the "bulking phase" before I lean down? I know I know...read the other posts..but I have and there is sooo much thats is so confusing.
SteelWeaver
New member
"Hey FitMedic- I'll keep it simple: "
Was I too verbose? lol - just kidding - thanks for cutting through the crap for me
fm - before you start worrying about exactly how many carbs you're having down to the gram, you need to look at overall calories - are you getting enough? If you want to lay down muscle, you have to eat more than your body needs, otherwise it's just going to keep recycling what's in your system.
For a very, very interesting read on protein and protein synthesis, you should try going over to thinkmuscle.com and read Lyle Macdonald's 4-part series of articles on protein - I think it's in the articles archives section. (Otherwise do a search here - both MS and I have posted the link before).
spatts - that was when you were "bulking", yes? I think I'm currently taking in about .... somewhere between 200 and maybe 230g per day, maybe 120-160g of those are starchy. I'm at 85kg and maybe 20%bf - maybe - I dunno - it could be more, but I still have veins in my forearms, so I'm guessing not.
There are differnt ways you can figure out how many carbs you need, fm. First work out how many calories you need to bring you up to about 300/day over maintenance. Then work out what percentage of those cals = 1 ~ 1.5 g/lg bodyweight for protein (some people might say you need less - this is just a guideline), add in a fair percentage of good fats, then divide what's left up into starchy and fibrous carbs.
OR, work out how many cals you need, then decide on a ratio: 40:40:20, 50:30:20, 30:50:20, 45:45:10, or CYCLING numbers etc., then work out how many grams each of the macronutrients you need to set up that ratio.
OR, work out what the numbers are according to spatts figures above, then divide the rest of the cals up between protein and fat.
Decide on ONE method, and then go with it for a few weeks, monitoring as you go - see what happens to energy levels, intensity in the gym, fat accumulation, other body comp. changes ...
And then report back here so we can all learn from your experience
Was I too verbose? lol - just kidding - thanks for cutting through the crap for me
fm - before you start worrying about exactly how many carbs you're having down to the gram, you need to look at overall calories - are you getting enough? If you want to lay down muscle, you have to eat more than your body needs, otherwise it's just going to keep recycling what's in your system.
For a very, very interesting read on protein and protein synthesis, you should try going over to thinkmuscle.com and read Lyle Macdonald's 4-part series of articles on protein - I think it's in the articles archives section. (Otherwise do a search here - both MS and I have posted the link before).
spatts - that was when you were "bulking", yes? I think I'm currently taking in about .... somewhere between 200 and maybe 230g per day, maybe 120-160g of those are starchy. I'm at 85kg and maybe 20%bf - maybe - I dunno - it could be more, but I still have veins in my forearms, so I'm guessing not.
There are differnt ways you can figure out how many carbs you need, fm. First work out how many calories you need to bring you up to about 300/day over maintenance. Then work out what percentage of those cals = 1 ~ 1.5 g/lg bodyweight for protein (some people might say you need less - this is just a guideline), add in a fair percentage of good fats, then divide what's left up into starchy and fibrous carbs.
OR, work out how many cals you need, then decide on a ratio: 40:40:20, 50:30:20, 30:50:20, 45:45:10, or CYCLING numbers etc., then work out how many grams each of the macronutrients you need to set up that ratio.
OR, work out what the numbers are according to spatts figures above, then divide the rest of the cals up between protein and fat.
Decide on ONE method, and then go with it for a few weeks, monitoring as you go - see what happens to energy levels, intensity in the gym, fat accumulation, other body comp. changes ...
And then report back here so we can all learn from your experience
Can someone clarify the fibrous -vs- non fibrous carbs. I read where someone said no starchy carbs after a certain hour for whatever reason, blah blah blah. I notice on nutrition labels the carb content of the so-called "fibrous carbs" only contain 1-2g dietary fiber. Is this really the fibrous carbs people are referrring too? If so, it's not a whole lot of fiber huh? And do fibrous carbs really make that much different when trying to utilize carbs for muscle???
Steel, too verbose on the initial post???, no, but the last one was confusing as all get out! As long I've been doing this, that is the only thing I can't seem to figure out. I'm talking about how to figure all that calorie stuff and how much I need. What do you mean about the 300/day maintenance thing? I so don't get ANY of that. It's no wonder I've never done it!$%%$>9???
SteelWeaver
New member
Sorry FM! OK, I'll do all the numbers re: my stats as an example.
Now my bodyweight is 85kg x 2.2 to get pounds = 187 lbs.
GENERALLY speaking, as a very GENERAL guide, maintenance calories will fall somewhere between 12 and 16 x bw in lbs. This depends a LOT on your lbm, individual metabolism, level of activity, etc. etc. There are other ways to work this out, but this guide works fine for now.
Let's shoot for the middle - say 14 x bw = 187 x 14 = 2618. So according to this, my maintenance calories are about 2 600.
Now, you want to ADD muscle. If you don't eat MORE than your body MAINTAINS on, you can't ADD. This is why BB'ers complain about getting fat when bulking - it's very difficult to find exactly the right number of calories that will allow you to add muscle but not have a bit of the extra go to fat.
So, now you add 300 calories OVER your maintenance level to provide the EXCESS that you need to create new muscle. In my case 2 600 + 300 = 2 900. 300 is not a magic number - it's just a starting point. You could add 100 calories per week until you see you're gaining 0.5 - 1lb per week, then stay there until gains stop, add a bit more, etc. Adding slowly is probably a good way to monitor more closely. Guys generally get away with adding large numbers of cals more easily than chicks, just because they're born with hormonal environments more conducive to muscle gain, the lucky bastards.
Now, for the macros: Let's say I like carbs a lot, so I decide to do a 40:40:20 split, P:C:F
2 900 x 0.4 = 1 160 cals of protein
2 900 x 0.4 = 1 160 cals of carbs
2 900 x 0.2 = 580 cals of fat
Protein and carbs each have 4 cals/gram, fat has 9 cals/gram, so:
1160/4 = 290g protein
1160/4 = 290g carbs
580/9 = 65g fat
That's quite a lot of carbs, but I'm a big girl (Actually, the truth is, I think gain on fewer calories than this - I seem to have quite a slow metabolism and not enough lbm yet, but anyway ...).
Now you can take your carbs and decide how many of them you want to make starchy and how fibrous. FIBROUS carbs are broccoli, cabbage, cucumber, peppers, brussels sprouts, asparagus, lettuce, spinach, cauliflower, etc. etc - any veggies, and have minimal impact on insulin - MS can say what sort of carbs they are, but most of the carbs in veggies don't work in the body the same way starchy carbs do - they're mostly indigestible cellulose and other stuff. Pumpkin, carrots, corn have fiber, but are also starchy - ie. they do impact blood sugar, but nothing like, say, sugar, lol.
Oatmeal, potatoes, yams, rice, millet, pasta, etc. are starchy carbs, and they impact blood sugar/insulin levels a lot - that's the whole deal with hi/low GI - stay low GI and you'll have extended, slow-burning energy for your muscles without shooting glucose into fat cells.
Sugar, white rice, white potatoes, white bread, white flour - any refined carbs, spell energy crashes and fat gain because of the impact on blood sugar and insulin. They can be used post-workout, when an anabolic insulin spike is very useful, but this is not essential.
Insulin sensitivity is lower in the evening, that's why people say not to eat carbs too close to bed - because you raise your blood sugar and insulin levels, then don't use the fuel you just gave your body, so it goes off to storage ... I dunno ... there's a lot of discussion about not eating carbs after a certain time - it all depends what time you go to bed, what time you work out, overall calories, etc.
I'm finding I have plenty of energy and am not putting on too much fat keeping starchy carbs lowish (for me - 150g or so), and I eat lots of veggies because I love them and they are full of important nutrients, and they're very filling. So in our example, if I decide, say, 150 -180g starchy carbs is enough, then I'd just fill in the rest with veggies and sort of half & half carbs - like pumpkin, carrots, etc. The carbs from the latter add up quite quickly.
Are you with me?
How about the numbers spatts gave?
2g/kg bw = 2x85 = 170g carbs on a high day
0.5g/kg bw = 0.5 x 85 = 42.5g carbs on low day
170g x 4 = 680 cals from carbs
total cals at 2 900 - 680 = 2 220 left
say ... 1.5g protein/lb bw = 1.5 x 187 = 280.5g protein
280.5 x 4 = 1122 cals from protein
2220 - 1122 = 1098 cals for fat
1098/9 = 122g fat
So, on a high carb day: Pro:280g
CHO: 170g
Fat: 122g
I personally think that's a lot of fat - you could increase the protein more instead. But it would be a lot cheaper to just eat more carbs, carefully, with low GI.
You'd do the same sort of calculation to get grams of fat and protein for low days.
The upshot is though, that all of these macros, calculations, numbers, etc. are really just guidelines, and it comes down to working stuff out for your own body. I know this probably just frustrates and irritates you. I know because for the longest time I wanted EXACT numbers and grams, and no-one could give them to me, because no-one CAN give them to you.
Lots of people here loved carb cycling, but when I finally tried it, I almost had a mental breakdown my energy levels were so screwed up. But now I KNOW it doesn't work FOR ME. It works GREAT for spatts. But if she eats too many carbs, she crashes big time.
I think you will get to the point that spatts mentioned - about being able to go by feel, but that takes a while - I know I'm still a ways from that, although slowly getting more confident. Starting with numbers and guidelines, even if they are just guides, is good, because that way when you figure out what FEELS right, you'll KNOW what the corresponding numbers are.
OK, I know this is incredibly long - I hope less confusing. If you can't figure it out, give us your stats and we can figure out some starting numbers for you in no time!
Now my bodyweight is 85kg x 2.2 to get pounds = 187 lbs.
GENERALLY speaking, as a very GENERAL guide, maintenance calories will fall somewhere between 12 and 16 x bw in lbs. This depends a LOT on your lbm, individual metabolism, level of activity, etc. etc. There are other ways to work this out, but this guide works fine for now.
Let's shoot for the middle - say 14 x bw = 187 x 14 = 2618. So according to this, my maintenance calories are about 2 600.
Now, you want to ADD muscle. If you don't eat MORE than your body MAINTAINS on, you can't ADD. This is why BB'ers complain about getting fat when bulking - it's very difficult to find exactly the right number of calories that will allow you to add muscle but not have a bit of the extra go to fat.
So, now you add 300 calories OVER your maintenance level to provide the EXCESS that you need to create new muscle. In my case 2 600 + 300 = 2 900. 300 is not a magic number - it's just a starting point. You could add 100 calories per week until you see you're gaining 0.5 - 1lb per week, then stay there until gains stop, add a bit more, etc. Adding slowly is probably a good way to monitor more closely. Guys generally get away with adding large numbers of cals more easily than chicks, just because they're born with hormonal environments more conducive to muscle gain, the lucky bastards.
Now, for the macros: Let's say I like carbs a lot, so I decide to do a 40:40:20 split, P:C:F
2 900 x 0.4 = 1 160 cals of protein
2 900 x 0.4 = 1 160 cals of carbs
2 900 x 0.2 = 580 cals of fat
Protein and carbs each have 4 cals/gram, fat has 9 cals/gram, so:
1160/4 = 290g protein
1160/4 = 290g carbs
580/9 = 65g fat
That's quite a lot of carbs, but I'm a big girl
(Actually, the truth is, I think gain on fewer calories than this - I seem to have quite a slow metabolism and not enough lbm yet, but anyway ...).Now you can take your carbs and decide how many of them you want to make starchy and how fibrous. FIBROUS carbs are broccoli, cabbage, cucumber, peppers, brussels sprouts, asparagus, lettuce, spinach, cauliflower, etc. etc - any veggies, and have minimal impact on insulin - MS can say what sort of carbs they are, but most of the carbs in veggies don't work in the body the same way starchy carbs do - they're mostly indigestible cellulose and other stuff. Pumpkin, carrots, corn have fiber, but are also starchy - ie. they do impact blood sugar, but nothing like, say, sugar, lol.
Oatmeal, potatoes, yams, rice, millet, pasta, etc. are starchy carbs, and they impact blood sugar/insulin levels a lot - that's the whole deal with hi/low GI - stay low GI and you'll have extended, slow-burning energy for your muscles without shooting glucose into fat cells.
Sugar, white rice, white potatoes, white bread, white flour - any refined carbs, spell energy crashes and fat gain because of the impact on blood sugar and insulin. They can be used post-workout, when an anabolic insulin spike is very useful, but this is not essential.
Insulin sensitivity is lower in the evening, that's why people say not to eat carbs too close to bed - because you raise your blood sugar and insulin levels, then don't use the fuel you just gave your body, so it goes off to storage ...
I dunno ... there's a lot of discussion about not eating carbs after a certain time - it all depends what time you go to bed, what time you work out, overall calories, etc.I'm finding I have plenty of energy and am not putting on too much fat keeping starchy carbs lowish (for me - 150g or so), and I eat lots of veggies because I love them and they are full of important nutrients, and they're very filling. So in our example, if I decide, say, 150 -180g starchy carbs is enough, then I'd just fill in the rest with veggies and sort of half & half carbs - like pumpkin, carrots, etc. The carbs from the latter add up quite quickly.
Are you with me?
How about the numbers spatts gave?
2g/kg bw = 2x85 = 170g carbs on a high day
0.5g/kg bw = 0.5 x 85 = 42.5g carbs on low day
170g x 4 = 680 cals from carbs
total cals at 2 900 - 680 = 2 220 left
say ... 1.5g protein/lb bw = 1.5 x 187 = 280.5g protein
280.5 x 4 = 1122 cals from protein
2220 - 1122 = 1098 cals for fat
1098/9 = 122g fat
So, on a high carb day: Pro:280g
CHO: 170g
Fat: 122g
I personally think that's a lot of fat - you could increase the protein more instead. But it would be a lot cheaper to just eat more carbs, carefully, with low GI.
You'd do the same sort of calculation to get grams of fat and protein for low days.
The upshot is though, that all of these macros, calculations, numbers, etc. are really just guidelines, and it comes down to working stuff out for your own body. I know this probably just frustrates and irritates you. I know because for the longest time I wanted EXACT numbers and grams, and no-one could give them to me, because no-one CAN give them to you.
Lots of people here loved carb cycling, but when I finally tried it, I almost had a mental breakdown my energy levels were so screwed up. But now I KNOW it doesn't work FOR ME. It works GREAT for spatts. But if she eats too many carbs, she crashes big time.
I think you will get to the point that spatts mentioned - about being able to go by feel, but that takes a while - I know I'm still a ways from that, although slowly getting more confident. Starting with numbers and guidelines, even if they are just guides, is good, because that way when you figure out what FEELS right, you'll KNOW what the corresponding numbers are.
OK, I know this is incredibly long - I hope less confusing. If you can't figure it out, give us your stats and we can figure out some starting numbers for you in no time!
SteelWeaver
New member
fitmedic said:
btw - those aren't fibrous carbs. Veggies are fibrous carbs. Those packaged carbs (eg, oatmeal) CONTAIN fiber, but not enough to classify them as fiber. The fiber slows down digestion, which is why the insulin impact is so low with veggies. Notice, refined carbs have no fiber. They travel into the blood stream at warp speed.
SteelWeaver
New member
Yeah, I know - the last time I checked you were at 30 something gr fat? And 300-400g protein, yeah? But you've changed things around since you got some r-ALA, haven't you?
Promise - this is just an EXAMPLE for ILLUSTRATIVE purposes. I wouldn't eat that much fat either - I keep it around 50-70g or so. But I COULDN'T eat that much protein either. And like I said, I'm not eating that many calories.
Just an example ...
Promise - this is just an EXAMPLE for ILLUSTRATIVE purposes. I wouldn't eat that much fat either - I keep it around 50-70g or so. But I COULDN'T eat that much protein either. And like I said, I'm not eating that many calories.
Just an example ...
SteelWeaver
New member
OK, so it was a bad example
Actually, I've never tried to work out numbers for myself that way, mostly because I cringed at the thought of eating so few carbs even while trying to GAIN mass, and the 1~2g/lb bw of protein is the usual number that gets thrown around for protein requirements, never mind that the people who throw this number around never mention that this recommendation can't possibly stand for all lifters all of the time. And remember the big long thread about whether people on gear need MORE or LESS protein?
But those are details that fm doesn't need to have to deal with right now - I personally feel that if one wants numbers, starting with an overall caloric value and working backwards into macro ratios and then grams is easier than trying to work from g/kg bw ...
carbs
STEEL!! YOU ARE THE BOMB!!! That was the most imformative, easy to understand explanation of carbs and calculating numbers I've ever read! You should file that somewhere and post it periodically like Spatts does her bulking and cutting diets. Anyway, providing I'm doing this right, once I get going should I see a 0.5-1 lb gain/wk in muscle?? And where did you come up with the 40/40/20 split? How do you know what to start with? Should I just try that split for 4-5 weeks (or less??) and adjust from there? I guess I wanna know how long I should I give it to see the necessary changes before I alter the numbers? How do you know how many starchy vs how many fibrous carbs? Just do starchy a.m. and fibrous p.m.? BTW, karma and kisses for you!! Merry Christmas :gift
STEEL!! YOU ARE THE BOMB!!! That was the most imformative, easy to understand explanation of carbs and calculating numbers I've ever read! You should file that somewhere and post it periodically like Spatts does her bulking and cutting diets. Anyway, providing I'm doing this right, once I get going should I see a 0.5-1 lb gain/wk in muscle?? And where did you come up with the 40/40/20 split? How do you know what to start with? Should I just try that split for 4-5 weeks (or less??) and adjust from there? I guess I wanna know how long I should I give it to see the necessary changes before I alter the numbers? How do you know how many starchy vs how many fibrous carbs? Just do starchy a.m. and fibrous p.m.? BTW, karma and kisses for you!! Merry Christmas :gift
SteelWeaver
New member
<tickled pink! blush, blush>
FM, you made my Christmas! I can't tell you how much it pleases me to have been of real help to you
The 0.5~1lb gain/week is just a guideline, like all the other stuff. And yeah, hehe he, it's overall gain, not MUSCLE gain. Wow, wouldn't that be cool. If you're gaining 1lb/week, but body comp. tests show that 0.75lb of that is fat, then obviously you're gaining too fast, and should cut back some calories, and/or rearrrange your starchy/fibrous carbs ratios. The main thing is that weight will go up, even if it's just 0.2 lb/week, but fat% will go up slowly. If fat percentage is going down and weight is staying the same, that's also a sign of gaining muscle. But that might not happen if you've been lifting a while. Unfortunately for me, I have no way except the handheld Omron/tanita thing to check my fat%, so I just go by look and feel and clothes. And don't forget there will be times of extra water etc. to confuse things.
The 40/40/20 split - well ... I dunno? MS has posted that she uses this for cutting. As far as I know her carbs are even higher off season. It's a fairly typical ratio for gaining, I think - but I'm sure almost any ratio will do, so long as you're getting enough carbs to power your workouts, enough protein to provide excess to be used in protein synthesis, and enough fat to provide the EFA's. I used an isocaloric ratio once - 33/33/33, but I didn't like eating that much fat. I think I'm closer to 40/40/20 right now - the main thing with this is not making ALL the carbs starchy carbs, cause it's easy to gain fat that way.
For starchy vs fibrous - er ... you gotta eat your veggies! What's the RDA? 11 servings? You'll need to try different stuff - if you're feeling like you don't have a whole lot of energy, but your tummy is FULL all the time, you're eating too many fibrous and not enough starchy. If you're hungry a lot but gaining fat too fast, you're eating too many (probably high gi) carbs. You could even switch the ratios around depending on what you're doing that day, like spatts' carb cycling plan - eat like 80% of your total carbs from starchy sources on leg days, and then say, only 40% on days you're doing lighter stuff or not training.
I truly think these answers will come to you after you play with things for a while - pick a plan, one plan, and go with it for, yeah, 4-6 weeks, maybe even 8, adjusting as you go. I'm still doing that, although I've been a bit lazy on working out exact numbers, I'm playing with fibrous vs starchy, diff protein amounts, more or less fat, blah de blah
And though I am seeing fat (fine, whatever, that happens) I am also seeing muscle - you'll see it better after you diet down again, but you will see it. I'm getting that bulging look in my shoulders and traps, my lats are starting to look wider, EVEN though my waist is also wider. My forearms are looking thick and my legs have definitely grown. Even my pathetic calves are looking rounder and fuller, with the heart shape part starting to be visible
Good luck! Keep us posted on progress.
FM, you made my Christmas! I can't tell you how much it pleases me to have been of real help to you
The 0.5~1lb gain/week is just a guideline, like all the other stuff. And yeah, hehe he, it's overall gain, not MUSCLE gain. Wow, wouldn't that be cool. If you're gaining 1lb/week, but body comp. tests show that 0.75lb of that is fat, then obviously you're gaining too fast, and should cut back some calories, and/or rearrrange your starchy/fibrous carbs ratios. The main thing is that weight will go up, even if it's just 0.2 lb/week, but fat% will go up slowly. If fat percentage is going down and weight is staying the same, that's also a sign of gaining muscle. But that might not happen if you've been lifting a while. Unfortunately for me, I have no way except the handheld Omron/tanita thing to check my fat%, so I just go by look and feel and clothes. And don't forget there will be times of extra water etc. to confuse things.
The 40/40/20 split - well ... I dunno? MS has posted that she uses this for cutting. As far as I know her carbs are even higher off season. It's a fairly typical ratio for gaining, I think - but I'm sure almost any ratio will do, so long as you're getting enough carbs to power your workouts, enough protein to provide excess to be used in protein synthesis, and enough fat to provide the EFA's. I used an isocaloric ratio once - 33/33/33, but I didn't like eating that much fat. I think I'm closer to 40/40/20 right now - the main thing with this is not making ALL the carbs starchy carbs, cause it's easy to gain fat that way.
For starchy vs fibrous - er ... you gotta eat your veggies! What's the RDA? 11 servings? You'll need to try different stuff - if you're feeling like you don't have a whole lot of energy, but your tummy is FULL all the time, you're eating too many fibrous and not enough starchy. If you're hungry a lot but gaining fat too fast, you're eating too many (probably high gi) carbs. You could even switch the ratios around depending on what you're doing that day, like spatts' carb cycling plan - eat like 80% of your total carbs from starchy sources on leg days, and then say, only 40% on days you're doing lighter stuff or not training.
I truly think these answers will come to you after you play with things for a while - pick a plan, one plan, and go with it for, yeah, 4-6 weeks, maybe even 8, adjusting as you go. I'm still doing that, although I've been a bit lazy on working out exact numbers, I'm playing with fibrous vs starchy, diff protein amounts, more or less fat, blah de blah
And though I am seeing fat (fine, whatever, that happens) I am also seeing muscle - you'll see it better after you diet down again, but you will see it. I'm getting that bulging look in my shoulders and traps, my lats are starting to look wider, EVEN though my waist is also wider. My forearms are looking thick and my legs have definitely grown. Even my pathetic calves are looking rounder and fuller, with the heart shape part starting to be visible
Good luck! Keep us posted on progress.
carbs
Steel, how do I measure gains if I dont' have a caliper thingy? Is that Omron thing you have something I should get? I've thought about those scales that measure weight and BF but don't know anything about their accuracy. You said MS uses the 40/40/20 split for cutting. You still think I should try the same split for gaining? What do you mean by you were on isocaloric ratio. I'm not sure what that is. Are you currently trying to gain? Would you post a typical day of your diet. I'd like to see your food and times you eat. Do you rotate carbs?
You posted this in your last reply, "if you're feeling like you don't have a whole lot of energy, but your tummy is FULL all the time, you're eating too many fibrous and not enough starchy..."
This is what I'm talking about Steel...thses are the things I need to know about and never could understand or get anyone to "draw me a picture." This kinda stuff is very informative.
Do people count the grams as opposed to calories because it's easier? Are you lifting heavy and 1-3 rep range or moderately heavy and 6-8m rep range?
Thanks my dear. you're an
Steel, how do I measure gains if I dont' have a caliper thingy? Is that Omron thing you have something I should get? I've thought about those scales that measure weight and BF but don't know anything about their accuracy. You said MS uses the 40/40/20 split for cutting. You still think I should try the same split for gaining? What do you mean by you were on isocaloric ratio. I'm not sure what that is. Are you currently trying to gain? Would you post a typical day of your diet. I'd like to see your food and times you eat. Do you rotate carbs?
You posted this in your last reply, "if you're feeling like you don't have a whole lot of energy, but your tummy is FULL all the time, you're eating too many fibrous and not enough starchy..."
This is what I'm talking about Steel...thses are the things I need to know about and never could understand or get anyone to "draw me a picture." This kinda stuff is very informative.
Do people count the grams as opposed to calories because it's easier? Are you lifting heavy and 1-3 rep range or moderately heavy and 6-8m rep range?
Thanks my dear. you're an
SteelWeaver
New member
Uh .... they don't have trainers with calipers at your gym? They don't have them here, but I thought that was just a Japan thing - they like high tech stuff, like the Omron thingy - which I have to say is just as bad as the Tanita thing - it works by the same method. So, no, don't get one of those.
The only other way is to get on the scale and look in the mirror when you're naked, and/or go by how your clothes feel. Naturally, these methods are subjective, and it's easy to tell yourself you're not getting as fat as you really are (ask me, I KNOW about this, bleugh!)
MS is a smart woman, and she's figured out how to have lots of carbs when gaining without getting too fat, so, as I said, I think she gains on a higher percentage of carbs. She also has excellent insulin sensitivity, which can only help .... I believe she also cycles her protein, but you'd have to ask her about that.
Isocaloric = the same number of calories from each macronutrient, i.e. 33/33/33. Be sure it's CALORIES, not grams, since fat has so many more calories per gram. So on a 2000 calorie diet, you'd get 660 cals from each macro: 165gP, 165gCHO, and 73g fat. OK?
The main thing is just to pick a split, any split will do so long as you're getting enough overall calories, enough protein for protein synthesis, enough carbs to fuel your workouts, enough veggies for vitamins, and enough EFA's for hormonal and other work in your body.
Yes, I'm currently trying to gain. I don't rotate carbs because a) I'm too lazy to, and b) I like carbs and I'm a veggie, so eating that much protein is difficult and expensive. However, on off-days I don't have pre and postworkout carbs, so I guess in that minimal sense, I do rotate them.
I'll give you a sample of what I eat most days, but please note that I haven't actually CALCULATED anything here - I've spent the entire year measuring and weighing and calculating every single morsel that went into my mouth, and I'm taking a bit of a break from that now. I'm also trying to learn what my body responds to by feel, like what spatts was saying. So that's my disclaimer I'm still learning too.
7am
big bowl oatmeal (60-80g - maybe 45-50 CHO, I think)
half an apple
half a handful raisins
a few walnuts
skim milk
1 egg
5 egg whites
some spinach or onion or green beans or tomato or something in omelette.
sometimes a slice of low fat cheese or cottage cheese
10am
one low carb protein bar (180 cals) or protein shake
a bunch of pumpkin
12pm
7 egg whites
a bunch of pumpkin (300g??? with skins) or carrots
a bunch of veggies in omelette: grated carrots, spinach, onion, sun-dried tomato, mushrooms - one or two of those - depends what's cheap at the veggie shop
3-4pm
6-7 egg whites (made with same veggies as above) sometimes with cottage cheese
a bunch of broccoli or brussels sprouts or cabbage or some other yummy veggie
5pm (~30 mins pre-workout)
a protein bar with carbs, or one of those pre-workout type drinks, or just a protein shake, and/or half a sweet potato - all depends on my mood and how I feel
7pm (post-workout)
30-40g whey shake
30-40g dextose + maltodextrin
30-60 mins later:
a bagel with cottage cheese, or some rice cakes, or some couscous
60-90 mins later:
7 egg whites with veggies
and probably a bunch of peanut butter or almonds or walnuts
10 pm or so (depending if I'm hungry or whatever)
half a cup cottage cheese, sometimes with peanut butter.
I have no clue how many calories this is - ha ha -would be interesting to work it out I think I'll do that in the next week or so. I know I'm eating enough, because I'm never hungry unless my meal timing goes off. I'm not eating too much, because I DO get hungry if I miss/delay a meal. Oh, I often have one or two skim milk starbucks lattes in there somewhere .....
I finished my last malto and dextrose mix last night, so I'll probably switch to just rice cakes or couscous or rice, or white potatoes, or Power bars or something like that for post w/o carbs from now.
It's better to count grams because then you know your ratios - I mean, I could eat 3000 cals of snickers every day, but I wouldn't gain anything but fat. And knowing the grams tell you instantly how many cals that is anyway - just multiply and add.
I'm lifting compound moves in the 5 or 6 to 8 range, and assistance moves in the 8-12 range. While I have my trainer around, I'm doing a lot of set-expanding. I figure I may as well work like a dog while she's around to help, then back off a bit in Feb when I get home.
Oh dear, another novel Enjoy!
The only other way is to get on the scale and look in the mirror when you're naked, and/or go by how your clothes feel. Naturally, these methods are subjective, and it's easy to tell yourself you're not getting as fat as you really are (ask me, I KNOW about this, bleugh!)
MS is a smart woman, and she's figured out how to have lots of carbs when gaining without getting too fat, so, as I said, I think she gains on a higher percentage of carbs. She also has excellent insulin sensitivity, which can only help .... I believe she also cycles her protein, but you'd have to ask her about that.
Isocaloric = the same number of calories from each macronutrient, i.e. 33/33/33. Be sure it's CALORIES, not grams, since fat has so many more calories per gram. So on a 2000 calorie diet, you'd get 660 cals from each macro: 165gP, 165gCHO, and 73g fat. OK?
The main thing is just to pick a split, any split will do so long as you're getting enough overall calories, enough protein for protein synthesis, enough carbs to fuel your workouts, enough veggies for vitamins, and enough EFA's for hormonal and other work in your body.
Yes, I'm currently trying to gain. I don't rotate carbs because a) I'm too lazy to, and b) I like carbs and I'm a veggie, so eating that much protein is difficult and expensive. However, on off-days I don't have pre and postworkout carbs, so I guess in that minimal sense, I do rotate them.
I'll give you a sample of what I eat most days, but please note that I haven't actually CALCULATED anything here - I've spent the entire year measuring and weighing and calculating every single morsel that went into my mouth, and I'm taking a bit of a break from that now. I'm also trying to learn what my body responds to by feel, like what spatts was saying. So that's my disclaimer
I'm still learning too.7am
big bowl oatmeal (60-80g - maybe 45-50 CHO, I think)
half an apple
half a handful raisins
a few walnuts
skim milk
1 egg
5 egg whites
some spinach or onion or green beans or tomato or something in omelette.
sometimes a slice of low fat cheese or cottage cheese
10am
one low carb protein bar (180 cals) or protein shake
a bunch of pumpkin
12pm
7 egg whites
a bunch of pumpkin (300g??? with skins) or carrots
a bunch of veggies in omelette: grated carrots, spinach, onion, sun-dried tomato, mushrooms - one or two of those - depends what's cheap at the veggie shop
3-4pm
6-7 egg whites (made with same veggies as above) sometimes with cottage cheese
a bunch of broccoli or brussels sprouts or cabbage or some other yummy veggie
5pm (~30 mins pre-workout)
a protein bar with carbs, or one of those pre-workout type drinks, or just a protein shake, and/or half a sweet potato - all depends on my mood and how I feel
7pm (post-workout)
30-40g whey shake
30-40g dextose + maltodextrin
30-60 mins later:
a bagel with cottage cheese, or some rice cakes, or some couscous
60-90 mins later:
7 egg whites with veggies
and probably a bunch of peanut butter or almonds or walnuts
10 pm or so (depending if I'm hungry or whatever)
half a cup cottage cheese, sometimes with peanut butter.
I have no clue how many calories this is - ha ha -would be interesting to work it out
I think I'll do that in the next week or so. I know I'm eating enough, because I'm never hungry unless my meal timing goes off. I'm not eating too much, because I DO get hungry if I miss/delay a meal. Oh, I often have one or two skim milk starbucks lattes in there somewhere .....I finished my last malto and dextrose mix last night, so I'll probably switch to just rice cakes or couscous or rice, or white potatoes, or Power bars or something like that for post w/o carbs from now.
It's better to count grams because then you know your ratios - I mean, I could eat 3000 cals of snickers every day, but I wouldn't gain anything but fat. And knowing the grams tell you instantly how many cals that is anyway - just multiply and add.
I'm lifting compound moves in the 5 or 6 to 8 range, and assistance moves in the 8-12 range. While I have my trainer around, I'm doing a lot of set-expanding. I figure I may as well work like a dog while she's around to help, then back off a bit in Feb when I get home.
Oh dear, another novel
Enjoy!carbs
Oddly enough, I go to (only because the hospital I work for owns it which= big, huge discount) the nicest, biggest, most equipped gym here but the staff is a joke. Yes they have calipers but the "trainers" (if you can call them that) are kids right outta college that have personal trainer after their name but are just in it for the "prestige." They really have no clue about how to lift, nutrition or anything else. I wouldn't trust them to measure me with calipers, besides I hear you gotta be pretty well versed in using those things to get an accurate reading. So you don't think the standon scale/BF thing is any good huh?
Would I be able to tell the difference by looking in the mirror? I know I can see if I gain wt but "good wt" is the question.
Do you buy malto and dextrose seperately? I guess you mix it w/ your pro shake? Also I noticed you said you'll switch to rice cakes, or rice... do you not follow the "no hi-GI carbs" in the evening rule? Will you not have bad residual from eating hi GI carbs late?
Why do you not have pre and post workout carbs on off days?? No need for the fuel and it would get stored improperly?
When are you coming home?
Thanks for all your help!!
Oddly enough, I go to (only because the hospital I work for owns it which= big, huge discount) the nicest, biggest, most equipped gym here but the staff is a joke. Yes they have calipers but the "trainers" (if you can call them that) are kids right outta college that have personal trainer after their name but are just in it for the "prestige." They really have no clue about how to lift, nutrition or anything else. I wouldn't trust them to measure me with calipers, besides I hear you gotta be pretty well versed in using those things to get an accurate reading. So you don't think the standon scale/BF thing is any good huh?
Would I be able to tell the difference by looking in the mirror? I know I can see if I gain wt but "good wt" is the question.
Do you buy malto and dextrose seperately? I guess you mix it w/ your pro shake? Also I noticed you said you'll switch to rice cakes, or rice... do you not follow the "no hi-GI carbs" in the evening rule? Will you not have bad residual from eating hi GI carbs late?
Why do you not have pre and post workout carbs on off days?? No need for the fuel and it would get stored improperly?
When are you coming home?
Thanks for all your help!!
SteelWeaver
New member
"Would I be able to tell the difference by looking in the mirror?"
Uuuhhh, I dunno
I can SEE I've put on muscle, and I'm getting much stronger, so I know I have. I can also see fat, and the coverage doesn't seem to be increasing too fast, even though my weight's going up, so ... I really don't know - remember, I'm pretty new to this too. I'm sure I'd love someone to do calipers on me, but I don't have access .... so I just do the next best thing.
So long as you get the same person to use the calipers every time, there's some consistency, if not accuracy.
"do you not follow the "no hi-GI carbs" in the evening rule? "
I'm not sure that it's a RULE - just something that people do because they've found it helps them, or because someone else told them to do it. If I'm dieting, I cut out all high GI carbs, and I don't have any kind of starchy carbs after about 3pm.
However, I'm not dieting right now, and weight training increases insulin sensitivity, and there's the whole thing about the "anabolic window" for 30 - 60 mins post w/o. Most, if not all of the carbs eaten at this time will go to replenish muscle glycogen stores. From what I've read and picked up here, one CAN make faster gains taking in high GI carbs with whey immediately post w/o, (no matter what time of day you work out) but on the other hand, MS has pointed out that most studies that go into this don't follow up on long-term results. But we DO know that high GI carbs can and do lead to insulin resistance over the long term, especially if taken with saturated fat. So, I dunno - it's a toss up.
If I don't have any high GI carbs lying around, I'll use whatever comes to hand, but when trying to gain, it does seem to be a good idea to take advantage of the anabolic window by taking in carbs post w/o, even if at night. On off days I don't take in starchy carbs after about 4pm, or 6pm at the latest. I don't need the energy at that time, since I'm just going to go to bed ... no point in increasing fat storage chances.
I'm GOING home, to South Africa, at the end of January btw - I DID answer your PM a while ago, but your box was full I'm not Asian - I'm South African, been in Japan 8 years - came here because my lover came here and I didn't expect to nail down a job really quickly back home with a Bachelor's in Fine Art 
It's been an incredible journey of discovery in multiple areas of my life for me. I'm at a place of change now where I feel I'm standing high on a mountain peak looking down over magnificent plains filled with abundance and opportunity. There is SO much to learn and discover!
Aaaah!
Uuuhhh, I dunno
I can SEE I've put on muscle, and I'm getting much stronger, so I know I have. I can also see fat, and the coverage doesn't seem to be increasing too fast, even though my weight's going up, so ... I really don't know - remember, I'm pretty new to this too. I'm sure I'd love someone to do calipers on me, but I don't have access .... so I just do the next best thing.So long as you get the same person to use the calipers every time, there's some consistency, if not accuracy.
"do you not follow the "no hi-GI carbs" in the evening rule? "
I'm not sure that it's a RULE - just something that people do because they've found it helps them, or because someone else told them to do it. If I'm dieting, I cut out all high GI carbs, and I don't have any kind of starchy carbs after about 3pm.
However, I'm not dieting right now, and weight training increases insulin sensitivity, and there's the whole thing about the "anabolic window" for 30 - 60 mins post w/o. Most, if not all of the carbs eaten at this time will go to replenish muscle glycogen stores. From what I've read and picked up here, one CAN make faster gains taking in high GI carbs with whey immediately post w/o, (no matter what time of day you work out) but on the other hand, MS has pointed out that most studies that go into this don't follow up on long-term results. But we DO know that high GI carbs can and do lead to insulin resistance over the long term, especially if taken with saturated fat. So, I dunno - it's a toss up.
If I don't have any high GI carbs lying around, I'll use whatever comes to hand, but when trying to gain, it does seem to be a good idea to take advantage of the anabolic window by taking in carbs post w/o, even if at night. On off days I don't take in starchy carbs after about 4pm, or 6pm at the latest. I don't need the energy at that time, since I'm just going to go to bed ... no point in increasing fat storage chances.
I'm GOING home, to South Africa, at the end of January
btw - I DID answer your PM a while ago, but your box was full I'm not Asian - I'm South African, been in Japan 8 years - came here because my lover came here and I didn't expect to nail down a job really quickly back home with a Bachelor's in Fine Art It's been an incredible journey of discovery in multiple areas of my life for me. I'm at a place of change now where I feel I'm standing high on a mountain peak looking down over magnificent plains filled with abundance and opportunity. There is SO much to learn and discover!Aaaah!
Big Johnson
New member
I'm a man, but I don't think that in this case it makes much difference. When I am on a low carb diet (30g or less per day), I can eat 5000 calories a day, train, make strength gains and still drop body fat like a hot rock.
When I eat a low fat diet (10g or less per day), I can eat 3000 calories per day, train, make NO strength gains, and watch my weight stay more or less the same, + or - 2lbs. I feel tired and get sick often.
Everyone I know who has tried a low carb diet for 4 or more weeks LOVES their results. My whole family eats low carb now. My brother's wife's family has even jumped on the bandwagon. Just a few days ago when we all got together for Xmas dinner, I was amazed at how much leaner we all were compaired to the year before.
When I eat a low fat diet (10g or less per day), I can eat 3000 calories per day, train, make NO strength gains, and watch my weight stay more or less the same, + or - 2lbs. I feel tired and get sick often.
Everyone I know who has tried a low carb diet for 4 or more weeks LOVES their results. My whole family eats low carb now. My brother's wife's family has even jumped on the bandwagon. Just a few days ago when we all got together for Xmas dinner, I was amazed at how much leaner we all were compaired to the year before.
BG, Were you eating the same type of carbs just reducing the amount? The reason I ask is I went on the NHE bodybuilder eating plan (less than 30g carbs day and high pro and fat) for...about 6-8 weeks I guess and expected to see major muscle gains but didn't. I did lose size and was disappointed about that so stopped the plan altogether. I currently am looking for something else that will give me the muscle gain with minimal fat (but aren't well all?). That's why I was confused about the morecarbs=more muscle or less carbs=more muscle thing. I was eating super low carbs and seeing no muscle gains. I now think I was never gonna see them... I figure I wasn't eating enough carbs to gain the muscle. I really have no idea how many carbs will work for me and after so long of searching for the plan that works, I'm gonna try what Steel (my Queen, hehehe) suggested and do the 40/40/30 split. Trial and error I suppose-as is everything in life.
I meant BJ (big johnson, sorry). And Steel, tell me about this insulin sensitivty thing. What do you feel physically when this is happening-or do you even know it?
If you're vegan or vegetarian I would think it would be harder to put on muscle 'cause your protein sources are limited, no? Your dedication is obvious and impressive!
Gotta finish choking down this oatmeal and go sling some...Steel. Wait a minute, that's steel.
If you're vegan or vegetarian I would think it would be harder to put on muscle 'cause your protein sources are limited, no? Your dedication is obvious and impressive!
Gotta finish choking down this oatmeal and go sling some...Steel. Wait a minute, that's steel.
Big Johnson
New member
Medic,
Maybe you should try eating more calories, not more carbs.
The types of carbs I eat are peripheral. Most of them come from salad and nuts. At 6'1" and 200lbs my average food intake looked something like this:
12 eggs
12 pieces of bacon
4 oz cottage chz
3-4 cans of tuna
8 oz of cheese
2-3 chicken breasts
4-6 TBSP bleu chz drs
Vegetables
I had no trouble shedding fat, and during the year I ate like this my lifts doubled.
Unfortunately, my GHB use led me to try other drugs and I ran into trouble with the law. While I was in the pen I wasn't given access to weights and am now trying to get back to the place I was before I fucked my entire universe up. I'm eating low carb again and people are already seeing an improvement. For me, and so many others I've turned on to the diet, nothing works better.
Maybe you should try eating more calories, not more carbs.
The types of carbs I eat are peripheral. Most of them come from salad and nuts. At 6'1" and 200lbs my average food intake looked something like this:
12 eggs
12 pieces of bacon
4 oz cottage chz
3-4 cans of tuna
8 oz of cheese
2-3 chicken breasts
4-6 TBSP bleu chz drs
Vegetables
I had no trouble shedding fat, and during the year I ate like this my lifts doubled.
Unfortunately, my GHB use led me to try other drugs and I ran into trouble with the law. While I was in the pen I wasn't given access to weights and am now trying to get back to the place I was before I fucked my entire universe up. I'm eating low carb again and people are already seeing an improvement. For me, and so many others I've turned on to the diet, nothing works better.
SteelWeaver
New member
Yes, I was about to say, BJ, attention must be paid to overall calories. FM, I'm not sure exactly what the biochemical mechanism of this is, but it's possible to eat MORE calories on a low carb diet than on a mod-high carb diet - about ~10% more. I believe it has to do with the thermogenic values of food - on low carb you'd eating more protein, resulting in increased need for gluconeogenesis, which takes more calories to create glucose.
Different people have different reactions to different diets. I haven't really tried enough diets to know my body's exact responses, but I DO know I feel like total crap on low carbs, and carb cycling trashes my energy levels and emotional stability. But both times I tried those diets I was also hypocaloric, so being hypercaloric could make a difference.
Anecdotally, and according to MS, most women tend to do better with a reasonable number of carbs in their diets, mostly to do with serotonin levels. But then, Spatts does just great on low carb, as do Ceebs, JJ and rez. So, yes, trial and error. Insulin sensitivity seems to be the big decider in who can have how many carbs. I don't really know much about it, except what I've read here and in a couple of physiology books. There are people here who could explain it much beter than I can, but anyway, when your body doesn't react the way it should to the insulin that is released to shuttle glucose from the bloodstream to the muscle cells, that's insulin resistance. Insulin resistance, if left long enough, with a crap enough diet and no exercise, becomes type 2 diabetes, and then you have a problem for the rest of your life. A lot of people who are fat and live on Macdonald's and other crap have developed it. Sugar + saturated fat + no exercise = big likelyhood of developing it.
I don't know that you can FEEL insulin sensitivity - but if you crash after eating carbs, even low GI ones, that could be a sign - I think? You need to get a glucose tolerance test done to find out exactly.
One other thing, about the 0.5-1lb gain a week - that's just a guideline, ok? If you're gaining that, but starting to look very soft, drop it back a bit - so long as you're consistently gaining, or bf is going down without weight change, you're doing fine. Oh, and that's 40/40/*20* honey, not 30.
Different people have different reactions to different diets. I haven't really tried enough diets to know my body's exact responses, but I DO know I feel like total crap on low carbs, and carb cycling trashes my energy levels and emotional stability. But both times I tried those diets I was also hypocaloric, so being hypercaloric could make a difference.
Anecdotally, and according to MS, most women tend to do better with a reasonable number of carbs in their diets, mostly to do with serotonin levels. But then, Spatts does just great on low carb, as do Ceebs, JJ and rez. So, yes, trial and error. Insulin sensitivity seems to be the big decider in who can have how many carbs. I don't really know much about it, except what I've read here and in a couple of physiology books. There are people here who could explain it much beter than I can, but anyway, when your body doesn't react the way it should to the insulin that is released to shuttle glucose from the bloodstream to the muscle cells, that's insulin resistance. Insulin resistance, if left long enough, with a crap enough diet and no exercise, becomes type 2 diabetes, and then you have a problem for the rest of your life. A lot of people who are fat and live on Macdonald's and other crap have developed it. Sugar + saturated fat + no exercise = big likelyhood of developing it.
I don't know that you can FEEL insulin sensitivity - but if you crash after eating carbs, even low GI ones, that could be a sign - I think? You need to get a glucose tolerance test done to find out exactly.
One other thing, about the 0.5-1lb gain a week - that's just a guideline, ok? If you're gaining that, but starting to look very soft, drop it back a bit - so long as you're consistently gaining, or bf is going down without weight change, you're doing fine. Oh, and that's 40/40/*20* honey, not 30.
Humm, well maybe that is the problem, just not enough cals. Those foods you listed... was that for one feeding? Good grief! That IS alot of food. You said all of your family looked leaner because of the low carb eating. I will agree that when I was on the <30g carbs /day I was leaner but it seems as if all my muscle was going too, so I stopped to preserve what was left.
Congrats on cleaning up your life (and your diet too of course). At least you can see you made a mistake- a lot of people don't see their mistakes. I tell you BJ, I work in emergency medicine and have seen every drug out there abused. Rx, recreational, including but not limited to GHB. I have never seen anything so wicked as GHB. Man, that stuff can have people talking to you one second and the next not breathing-just that fast. Again, congratulations!!
Congrats on cleaning up your life (and your diet too of course). At least you can see you made a mistake- a lot of people don't see their mistakes. I tell you BJ, I work in emergency medicine and have seen every drug out there abused. Rx, recreational, including but not limited to GHB. I have never seen anything so wicked as GHB. Man, that stuff can have people talking to you one second and the next not breathing-just that fast. Again, congratulations!!
