Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below ok tomorrow will be my first carb up day. I just started a week ago and this week i have not gone more than 50 carbs a day im going to shoot for 700 carbs tomorrow and was wondering what type of carbs should i have throughout the day. Ive heard its best to have like fruit for your first few meals and then like oatmeal and rice for your last few meals. What way should i do this? Is it that big or a deal if I just have oatmeal and rice all day long? thanks
carb cycling
- Thread starter traxxx
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Lifterforlife
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Bagels, lucky charms, milk, just about anything is fair game.
Am J Clin Nutr. 1988 Aug;48(2):240-7. Related Articles, Links
Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man.
Acheson KJ, Schutz Y, Bessard T, Anantharaman K, Flatt JP, Jequier E.
Institute of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Lausanne, Switzerland.
The metabolic balance method was performed on three men to investigate the fate of large excesses of carbohydrate. Glycogen stores, which were first depleted by diet (3 d, 8.35 +/- 0.27 MJ [1994 +/- 65 kcal] decreasing to 5.70 +/- 1.03 MJ [1361 +/- 247 kcal], 15% protein, 75% fat, 10% carbohydrate) and exercise, were repleted during 7 d carbohydrate overfeeding (11% protein, 3% fat, and 86% carbohydrate) providing 15.25 +/- 1.10 MJ (3642 +/- 263 kcal) on the first day, increasing progressively to 20.64 +/- 1.30 MJ (4930 +/- 311 kcal) on the last day of overfeeding. Glycogen depletion was again accomplished with 2 d of carbohydrate restriction (2.52 MJ/d [602 kcal/d], 85% protein, and 15% fat). Glycogen storage capacity in man is approximately 15 g/kg body weight and can accommodate a gain of approximately 500 g before net lipid synthesis contributes to increasing body fat mass. When the glycogen stores are saturated, massive intakes of carbohydrate are disposed of by high carbohydrate-oxidation rates and substantial de novo lipid synthesis (150 g lipid/d using approximately 475 g CHO/d) without postabsorptive hyperglycemia.
Am J Clin Nutr. 1988 Aug;48(2):240-7. Related Articles, Links
Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man.
Acheson KJ, Schutz Y, Bessard T, Anantharaman K, Flatt JP, Jequier E.
Institute of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Lausanne, Switzerland.
The metabolic balance method was performed on three men to investigate the fate of large excesses of carbohydrate. Glycogen stores, which were first depleted by diet (3 d, 8.35 +/- 0.27 MJ [1994 +/- 65 kcal] decreasing to 5.70 +/- 1.03 MJ [1361 +/- 247 kcal], 15% protein, 75% fat, 10% carbohydrate) and exercise, were repleted during 7 d carbohydrate overfeeding (11% protein, 3% fat, and 86% carbohydrate) providing 15.25 +/- 1.10 MJ (3642 +/- 263 kcal) on the first day, increasing progressively to 20.64 +/- 1.30 MJ (4930 +/- 311 kcal) on the last day of overfeeding. Glycogen depletion was again accomplished with 2 d of carbohydrate restriction (2.52 MJ/d [602 kcal/d], 85% protein, and 15% fat). Glycogen storage capacity in man is approximately 15 g/kg body weight and can accommodate a gain of approximately 500 g before net lipid synthesis contributes to increasing body fat mass. When the glycogen stores are saturated, massive intakes of carbohydrate are disposed of by high carbohydrate-oxidation rates and substantial de novo lipid synthesis (150 g lipid/d using approximately 475 g CHO/d) without postabsorptive hyperglycemia.
Lifterforlife
New member
traxxx said:
If you are in ketosis, then yes.
At 50 gr. of carbs per day max, you should have been able to reach ketosis.
jdevlin1985
New member
traxxx said:
Yes but you will regret it if you go mad. You will probably gain a stone of bloat. just be sure to watch the sodium intake if this is what you're going to do. I just eat 1cup of rice 7x, spaced every couple of hours apart. Obviously with other macros, i.e. protein, fats etc.
keep in mind that you should ease in... and partition the b'jeebus outta those carbs. If you are not using Glucorell for your carb up phase... and most definitely to slam yourself back into ketosis, then you are missing out big time.
Keep the last few meals of your carb up with as many 'oses' as possible, that is to say, go to town on the satan sugars: fructose, sucrose, dextrose, etc. They will make plunging back into ketosis easier. On your massive carb day/days do, PLEASE keep your fats to a minimum: low carb days=high fat days, high carb days=low fats, proteins are a constant.
Keep the last few meals of your carb up with as many 'oses' as possible, that is to say, go to town on the satan sugars: fructose, sucrose, dextrose, etc. They will make plunging back into ketosis easier. On your massive carb day/days do, PLEASE keep your fats to a minimum: low carb days=high fat days, high carb days=low fats, proteins are a constant.
traxxx said:
"oses" = any sugar with the letters 'ose' at the end: fructose, sucrose, lactose, dextrose... etc. Satan Sugars.
Glucorell-R will partition your refeed carbs directly to where you want them: the whole purpose of the refeed in reference to Muscular Hypertrophy is to pack fuel and recouperative goodies into your Muscle tissues, rather than just hammer your liver full of glycogen and pack on 3-to-1 water-glycogen ratio...
In reference to carb depletion and launching yer arse into ketosis in 24hours or less, hit your self with one Glucorell every hour for four hours after your last carb consumption on the last day of your refeed, you WILL want to be asleep when these kick in. Do a serious major body part HIGH INTENSITY resistance training session in the AM the next day with a SAVAGE HIIT cardio session either directly after or within 6 hours. Do NOT consume ANY carbs that day: no, you cant have even the 50 you would normally (which i suggest is too high anyway, it should be 30 max/day) and you will be in Ketosis by nightfall.
traxxx said:
What's essential, in terms of getting into deep 'aubergine' on your ketostix is ditching all those festive carbs you stored up duing your refeed. Use them to fuel the biggest baddes workout of the week.
For many that means legs and back on day one. Yes, legs AND back and you could toss in shoulders if you felt like Proto-Human. No, you would not do this to yourself on a 'normal' diet plan, it would be counter productive, but do it for love this time and do it hard and heavy. Use that musc.glyco. while you have it to CRUSH those body parts. After the EPOC (excess post workout oxygen consumption) period has passed from that monster resistance workout, THEN consider your high intensity cardio to forcibly fry out the remaining sugars.
Long story short? sorry, you got the wrong guy, but here goes anyway: after a refeed LIFT like it matters, let the Metabolic spike decline, then later that first day cardio hard. Pleasant? No. Effective? Yes.
ok today is my first high carb day after 5 days of 0-50 carbs. I weigh 240 lbs so i think im suppose to shoot for 700-800 carbs today. just eat my first meal after 45 minutes of cardio first thing in the morning. i had a cup of strawberries and then 30 minutes later i had 8oz lean ground beef, 6 rice cakes, and a big bowl of corn flakes. How was this for my first meal? This is my first time so please let me know if im doing something wrong. Next meal will consist of a shit load of white rice about 100 carbs worth.... thanks
Ghede said:
traxxx said:
I dont want to piss any of the vet's off around here, but i have yet to see one piece of hard paper that the typical 'dextrose-whey' immediate pwo shake is of any tangible benefit over a way more relaxed attitude for hammering the protein window.
The window for PWO protein synthesis is NOT 30 minutes but more like 5 hours and in some studies as much as 24 hours. I laugh my ass off watching guys mixing their Whey/Simple sugar concoctions in the friggin lockerroom! Can you picture a place you would rather consume food LESS than a room full of sweaty naked men?!?!
A number of the studies that have led to the myth of absolute post workout simple sugar needs are based upon supra-maximal effort for MORE than an hour and a half to two hours and are based on GLYCOGEN depletion/hyper-compensation NOT on protein uptake.
Ok, to be fair: yes, you have a better chance of filling a hole thats empty by throwing protein at it, than not. Is a PWO shake a good call? Yes, i suppose, but i am still waiting for any hard evidence to proove that protein synthesis based on Glucose or Glucose polymers or any 'oses' is an improvement PWO over just getting good clean proteins combined with complex carbs and moderate fats (MCTs might be a good call) to slow the absorbtion rates and NOT incur the spike everyone seems so hell bent on causing.
I have been wrong about a lot of stuff, and i am waiting to be wrong on this too... just not yet.
Lifterforlife
New member
Most of the papers I have read on this fail to address a couple of things...one major one is pre workout nutrition.
Another thing glycogen depletion is relatively low for a normal strength trainee. Unless you are training for endurance events, etc., then this really is not that big of an issue.
If you don't have good pre workout nutrition, of course you better have dam good pwo nutrition.
I have had my share of arguments on line about this very subject.....nice to see someone "echoing" my sentiments.
I harken back again to the "old days" before there even was whey protein...we did not know the difference between casein, etc. We would work out, go home and grill 1/2 lb. ground round burgers and have some pasta. Load up on calories. We gained.
The only supplements we had were stuff like MLO milk and egg, Hoffman same, all nasty stuff. We did just fine.
It is what you do over days, weeks, months that add up to gains, not 5 minutes pwo.
Another thing glycogen depletion is relatively low for a normal strength trainee. Unless you are training for endurance events, etc., then this really is not that big of an issue.
If you don't have good pre workout nutrition, of course you better have dam good pwo nutrition.
I have had my share of arguments on line about this very subject.....nice to see someone "echoing" my sentiments.
I harken back again to the "old days" before there even was whey protein...we did not know the difference between casein, etc. We would work out, go home and grill 1/2 lb. ground round burgers and have some pasta. Load up on calories. We gained.
The only supplements we had were stuff like MLO milk and egg, Hoffman same, all nasty stuff. We did just fine.
It is what you do over days, weeks, months that add up to gains, not 5 minutes pwo.
i thought the whole pwo thing was dead. anything works. i've done oats and whey, worked. i do now dex and whey, works. i mean, its up to you really. i prefer the whey/dex now because the difference between the 2 was negligable.
why do people still do the dex/whey? for ME, i work full and part time and am finishing a master's as we speak. it's another meal i can have that wont effect the next meal an hour later. when i was doing whey/oats i did have trouble getting the next meal down when i needed to.
i dont think either way is better than the other if your eating well the other 364 days of the year.
why do people still do the dex/whey? for ME, i work full and part time and am finishing a master's as we speak. it's another meal i can have that wont effect the next meal an hour later. when i was doing whey/oats i did have trouble getting the next meal down when i needed to.
i dont think either way is better than the other if your eating well the other 364 days of the year.
ok today is my first high carb day after 5 days of 0-50 carbs. I weigh 240 lbs so i think im suppose to shoot for 700-800 carbs today. just eat my first meal after 45 minutes of cardio first thing in the morning. i had a cup of strawberries and then 30 minutes later i had 8oz lean ground beef, 6 rice cakes, and a big bowl of corn flakes. How was this for my first meal? This is my first time so please let me know if im doing something wrong. Next meal will consist of a shit load of white rice about 100 carbs worth.... thanks
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