Can Lipator Effect gains?

[marky]

Doc has me on Lipator for high cholesterol. This runs in the family
and certainly isnt helped by cycling. My questio0n is would the statin drug hurt gains or interact with aas negatively. Thanx for the help bros.

 

[Seth28]

Make sure u tell the doc you are juicing. Statins are tough on the liver and you need routine monitoring of LFTs if you can tolerate some of the other classes of antilipemics (Niacin will raise your HDL but some people get bad flushing/sweating) they may be a better choice (also depends on wheter you LDL is high or your HDL is low or both) be careful.

 

[nandi12]

In addition to the affects on your liver seth28 mentioned, there is another thing to consider. All statins decrease cholesterol synthesis in your body. Since your body makes testosterone out of cholesterol, you would expect to see a decline in test levels. I have not seen any studies specifically looking at Lipitor, but other statins do reduce test levels. For example:

Horm Metab Res 1996 Apr;28(4):193-8

Testicular function in hypercholesterolemic male patients during prolonged simvastatin treatment.

Azzarito C, Boiardi L, Vergoni W, Zini M, Portioli I.

IInd Division of General Medicine and Endocrinology, S. Maria Nuova Hospital, Reggio Emilia, Italy.

Simvastatin is a very effective hypocholesterolemic drug which, reducing cholesterol biosynthesis, can affect normal steroid hormone production. Testes require a continuous cholesterol supply for testosterone synthesis and this can be derived from low density lipoprotein receptor-mediated uptake or from de novo local synthesis. The aim of the study was to see if prolonged simvastatin treatment compromised endocrine testicular function both in basal conditions and after stimulation by human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) (Profasi 5,000 Ul, i.m. at 8 a.m.). Free testosterone (FT) levels were determined at baseline and after 3, 6 and 12 months of simvastatin treatment (20 mg/day) in eight hypercholesterolemic patients. At the same time we performed a hCG stimulation test to evaluate testicular reserve. A significant reduction of FT, both basal and hCG-stimulated, was observed in the 6th and the 12th month of the study. However, FT levels remained in the normal range and no patient complained of gonadal function related symptoms. No significant change was observed in estradiol response to hCG test. Lastly, there was no variation in LH, FSH, progesterone, 17-OH-progesterone, androstenedione or dehydroepiandrosterone-sulphate levels. Our study concluded that the drug causes a mild decline in FT secretion without any clinical sign of testicular dysfunction.

www.Triedia.com

 

[monkeyballs]

The study is based off use for an enitre year. The FT levels are noted as being lower only in the 6th and 12th month of the trial, so would it be reasonable to assume that it takes statins greater than three months to have a marked effect of FT levels?

So the inclusion of Lipitor in a cycle that might be rough on HDL/LDL levels could have no effect of test levels provided that it's only used for a short duration.

I was thinking of keeping some handy for my upcoming cycle in case I don't like what I see on one of my Chol tests.

Also, how tough on the liver are we talking here? Can't be too much. My father is on Lipitor and there are no alcohol restrictions added to the prescription. Just curious if it harsh enough that it would be unwise to use while on any 17-aa's.

Also, nandi, I left a post for you over on your home board.

 

[nandi12]

That's a good question for which I have no answer. In fact, I just found a study that showed no change in test levels after 24 weeks of treatment with simvastatin:

"After 24 weeks of treatment, mean total cholesterol levels were decreased 24% to 27% and mean LDL cholesterol was decreased 30% to 34% in the 3 active-treatment groups (P < .001 for all comparisons to placebo). At 24 weeks, there were no statistically significant differences between the placebo group and any of the active-treatment groups for the change from baseline in testosterone, human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG)stimulated testosterone, free testosterone index, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH), or sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)." (1)

(1) Metabolism 2000 Jan;49(1):115-21

Effects of simvastatin and pravastatin on gonadal function in male hypercholesterolemic patients.

Dobs AS, Miller S, Neri G, Weiss S, Tate AC, Shapiro DR, Musliner TA.

Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA.


So it's really hard to tell what's going on here.

In any case it won't affect your gains while you are on exogenous androgens.

Probably like most things that are supposed to hurt the liver (except for solvents) the dangers are overstated. However, the type of damage due to statins (cholestatic liver disease) is the same as from 17aa steroids, so it might be wise to use the orals with moderation while using a statin.

Cholestatic liver damage is almost always self reversing once the offending agents are withdrawn.

 

[monkeyballs]

So it's really hard to tell what's going on here.

In any case it won't affect your gains while you are on exogenous androgens.

Probably like most things that are supposed to hurt the liver (except for solvents) the dangers are overstated. However, the type of damage due to statins (cholestatic liver disease) is the same as from 17aa steroids, so it might be wise to use the orals with moderation while using a statin.

Cholestatic liver damage is almost always self reversing once the offending agents are withdrawn. [/B]

Very hard to come up with any conclusions. My guess is that your right on the gaisn issue.

I'm banking on the fact that the liver is a remarkably resiliant organ. It's almost impossible to do and irreprable long term damage to the liver without killing yourself.

 

[nandi12]

I agree about the hardiness of the liver. I confess to being very fond of Wild Turkey (although my finances usually force me to drink Evan Williams) even when doing orals, and have never had any problems.

The reason I mentioned solvents is I had hepatitis-level enzyme elevations from working with adhesive/paint strippers at one point in my life. Despite countless cycles, that was the only time I ever developed any liver problems.

Saw your post; thanks!

 

[monkeyballs]

I agree about the hardiness of the liver. I confess to being very fond of Wild Turkey (although my finances usually force me to drink Evan Williams)

I thought Polygamy was recently outlawed in utah?

 

[nandi12]

I thought Polygamy was recently outlawed in utah?

Well, I try to abide by the original teachings of Joseph Smith.

Anyway, if they won't let me into the Temple in Salt Lake, I'll sure as hell never make it into the Celestial Kingdom, so I might as well make my own little heaven in the here and now.