buying a car

[SoKlueles]

Im thinking of going in debt and buying a car, I want to do it on my own but Im female and it seems like salesmen see women and go SCHWINGGGGGGG lets screw her over
what can i do to make them know that I mean business and I wont take any crap off of them?
My dad could go with me, but Id like to do it on my own and i dont want to be stuck driving a 5000 dollar car and paying 25000 for it. What kind of questions and statements can i make?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

New or used?

New, you can look at the dealer invoice pirce on the web. The dealer gets paid a little from the factory for every car they move ($100, $300, whatever) so anything you pay above the dealer's invoice is a salesperson's commission or additional dealer profit.

Just find out the invoice price and stick to it. The dealer will piss and moan, but, too bad.


Used cars is a different ball game. The dealer has a record of what they paid for the car, but they will never show it to you. Typically, they buy the car at an huge industry insider auction like Mannheim, or they might have arrangements with 'auto brokers' - guys who buy cars sheap after they are traded in etc.

You can, as a rule of thumb, when you buy a used car, assume that the price they are asking is $5000 more than they paid for it. Whatever they are asking, just slash $5000 off of it.

Don't get dragged into the typical dealer shenanigans. If they start talking to you about "what you can afford to put down" and "what kind of monthly payment you can afford", you are being screwed. Just leave if that happens.

Lastly, any negotiation has some common components. A good negotiator will tell you that they are not afraid to get upand walk away from a potential deal. You must be the same way. If you don't like the way it feels, go home.

There are some people on this forum who know more than I do. I hope they show up. But this is a good overview.

 

[SoKlueles]

That sounds like sound advice....every time i go to a dealership, they ask me how much I can afford......why do they do that? Are they trying to figure out exactly how much they can get out of me?
I will walk away, because Im not buying a car that I cant afford, no matter how much I want it

 

[bran987]

That sounds like sound advice....every time i go to a dealership, they ask me how much I can afford......why do they do that? Are they trying to figure out exactly how much they can get out of me?
I will walk away, because Im not buying a car that I cant afford, no matter how much I want it

well, once they know what monthly payment you can afford there are all kinds of ways they can screw you, changing the length of term of financing comined with different interest rates and totally going around the actual full price of you are paying, making u feel like as long as they give you the monthly payment you requested, they are doing you a favor.

 

[beefybull]

You could also try buying a car on eBay or Autotrader.com

The advantage to buying a car on eBay is that often times, the price for a car is $2-5k less than what a used car dealer would want (on 90's cars mostly). People are hesitant to purchase cars online b/c they "dont get to test drive them first". A legit complaint, however most auctions do not require full payment for the car before pickup. What makes buying most cars online safe is that there may be a $200-500 non-refundable deposit. This means you can drive/fly/Greyhound to the car and if you dont like it, you dont have to drop thousands on the car. And as for "non-refundable" deposit, if someone lied about a car and I came to see it, I'd wouldnt be leaving without my deposit.

Some people slip additional costs into their auction such as "paperwork fees" and things like this. ALWAYS read the ENTIRE auction.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

That sounds like sound advice....every time i go to a dealership, they ask me how much I can afford......why do they do that? Are they trying to figure out exactly how much they can get out of me?
I will walk away, because Im not buying a car that I cant afford, no matter how much I want it

Well, the "how much can you afford" trick is the way a high volume dealership works.

Don't tell them. When they say that, just answer with "let's get to a price first". This tells them that you did your research and you will only accept a deal that you are comfortable with.

if you say "$400 per month" you are inviting them to structure an arrangement for you, rather than structuring your own. They are going to hose you.

Lastly, lowball the living sh*t out of them, especially the used car guys. They're out to get paid by any means necessary. Turn it around on them. They don't give a shit about you. Payback time!!

 

[beefybull]

Lastly, lowball the living sh*t out of them, especially the used car guys.

 

[SoKlueles]

Well, the "how much can you afford" trick is the way a high volume dealership works.

Don't tell them. When they say that, just answer with "let's get to a price first". This tells them that you did your research and you will only accept a deal that you are comfortable with.

if you say "$400 per month" you are inviting them to structure an arrangement for you, rather than structuring your own. They are going to hose you.

Lastly, lowball the living sh*t out of them, especially the used car guys. They're out to get paid by any means necessary. Turn it around on them. They don't give a shit about you. Payback time!!

that sounds good, just remind myself im the customer and they are here to please me Thanks Matt and Guys

 

[Razorguns]

here's a BIG suggestion, and it'll save everyone headache involved.

before you even start discussing prices KNOW WHAT EXACTLY YOU WANT!

If you're not sure what you want, or not ready to buy yet -- don't waste your or the salesperson's time. When you're ready to "buy" and know what you want "exactly" -- THEN walk over the salesperson and start negotiating.

If not -- your self-doubt about what you want will be used against you. The conversation will always be about different models, options, your finances, what you can afford, blah blah blah -- and automatically you'll be placed in the subordinate position in the vein of the conversation.

I do PLENTY of research on a car and walk in armed with the facts and know exactly what i want, and how much i want to pay. They'll also respect you a lot more. If they don't agree -- walk. Leave your business card -- tell them your price -- leave it up to them.

 

[manny78]

Don't ever buy a used car from a dealer. Worse thing ever. Their price doesn't reflect reality at all and on top of that, their warranty is usually for a very short period. Anything you see at these places I can get it for 20-40% less.

With new cars, remember the salesperson has a margin he's working with. While some may be anal, others will be willing to work out something. Target the accessories, try to get a combo (I buy the sport package and you give me free A/C....). Don't be ashame to go to dealer "A" with a quote from dealer "B". It's a very competitive market. Basically my rule is: If you paid the price tag, you got assraped.

Another option would be these "lease returns/come back". If private parties are allowed in your state to go to auctions, try one of these (with a mechanic). Basically, when a lease ends, the credit company (linked to the car company) will offer the dealer to buy the car for a specific price tag (a bit lower than your residual value). Most dealers can't afford to buy them all so the credit comp. will just dump these at an auction. Most dealers will go there and hope to pick the same car for cheaper. Once again, they cant buy everything.

 

[SoKlueles]

I need to take each one of u to the car dealership or wherever with me and get you to negotiate for me.......i suck at that stuff......but your right, when i decide what i want and how much i am able to spend, ill be ok

 

[manny78]

I need to take each one of u to the car dealership or wherever with me and get you to negotiate for me.......i suck at that stuff......but your right, when i decide what i want and how much i am able to spend, ill be ok

I'm a dealer's nightmare. I usually go with my wallet full of quotes for other dealers or just what I found on the internet. Poor idiots don't like that.

 

[Razorguns]

I can also suggest one caveat to beware:

The "belittling" factor.

Example:

Car costs $10,000. You decide beforehand that it's really worth $8,000 and that's what you want to pay. You go to salesperson (who never gives you answer really, but wants you to "step inside) who then hears your offer.

He laughs. He belittles. He questions your "ability" to understand car economics.

His job is to BREAK you down. Accept HIS reality, not YOUR reality. QUESTION your facts. He'll go down a whopping $200. So it's $9800. His job is to make you believe he CAN'T go down at all. That you'll get the SAME price elsewhere. This car is WORTH it.

These guys are MASTERS at the mind game. If he has to sit for an HOUR to wait it out, just to make the extra $1,000 profit -- bet your ASS he'll do it (if he KNOWS that you are serious about buying, and it's just a matter of figuring out the price).

Unless yo'ure damn good at mind games back at someone -- you'll probably lose. These guys do this shit day in/day out.

So HOW do you avoid the dreaded negotiation, and belittling and arguing back and forth where they fight for an hour to go down $50, and you're still $3000 away from *their* price and they're making it seem YOU are the one who isn't being 'realistic'?

Walk.

Put the leverage in your corner. When they sense that you WILL walk and go try your luck elsewhere -- comes the leverage. Stop answering their rhetorical "questions" "But Cindy DON'T you like this car?" "Don't you agree, it's beautiful?", "have you EVER had problems with this model before? It's WORTH it!" blah blah).

Treat it like a professional business meeting. Act like a lawyer. Make your case, present it and say THAT'S it. If they can't reach it -- make your best offer, and you'll take it back and sit on it. You're NOT going to sit there for an hour so they can *convince* you. You just want their BEST offer and that's what you're WAITING for.

Trust me. Making a stand and STICKING to it si *much* easier than playing a battle of wits game with a sales person. WAY easier.

 

[SoKlueles]

OMG when me and my ex bought a new windstar van last year, they did that crap to us then......like they COULDNT go down......because it was such a nice vehicle which it was, but im sure other vehicles are just as nice.....i so have to get my mind on this
My dad is awesome about this stuff, he fenangles and if he dont like what they say, he walks, its his money so he walks.

 

[vinylgroover]

Will you be finacning the whole purchase?

If not, take cash with you to the negotiations and after getting them to their lowest figure, then say to them 'o.k, now how much for cash'.

Make sure you shop around and always write down your offers from other dealers and make each dealer try and beat the other.

Just be tuff and shrewd and as the others have said, be prepared to walk.

 

[beefybull]

Also, I'd go with a used vehicle unless you are absolutely dead-set on getting a model with your own custom options/color scheme or you have absolutely no faith in peoples past driving with used cars (which is lame).

I wouldnt buy a 2004 model car tomorrow even if I won a lump sum of $500,000. Well, maybe there a couple exceptions (new Chrysler 300C w/Hemi: the "poor" man's Bentley or maybe a Yukon Denali XL), but there are used cars I would be looking for even before those. With used cars at least 2-3 yrs old, you dont have to deal with steep depreciation either (or at least not as fast). The car will have already gone through its large initial depreciation and you will at least have a chance of making a decent portion of the money you spent back when it is time for resale.

New reliability ratings came out for the past year, the top 5 in quality were: Lexus, Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln, and something else (cant remember).

I would also *never* trade a car in to a dealer. They live for that shit b/c they will nitpick EVERY possible flaw on your car in an attempt to lower their already low offer. People end up getting $800-1000 credit on a $6000 car thats not too old just b/c they want a new car and dont want the hassle of trying to sell the old one.

 

[SoKlueles]

I will most definately be getting a used car. Im driving a 1993 Lumina Van right now with over 200,000 miles on it so in the Kellys book its worth like 400 dollars, I want a newer car, thats cheaper on gas. I will be financing, but would it be cheaper to get a loan from a bank instead of getting a loan thru the car dealer?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If you get the loan through a bank, you have much more negotiating power. If you have to finance through the dealer, theyhave more leverage.

Buying used? Whatever price they quote, cut $5000. Start negotiating there.

 

[bran987]

If you get the loan through a bank, you have much more negotiating power. If you have to finance through the dealer, theyhave more leverage.

Buying used? Whatever price they quote, cut $5000. Start negotiating there.

Matt do they work off of a hard $5000 or is there a percentage we can work from?

i.e. $5000 off of a $40000 used car versus $5000 off of a $13000 used car

a hard 5k?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Matt do they work off of a hard $5000 or is there a percentage we can work from?

i.e. $5000 off of a $40000 used car versus $5000 off of a $13000 used car

a hard 5k?

That advice was based on a detailed conversation I had with a guy I was in the Army with. On weekends, he sold used cars at a high volume dealership.

i remember him saying

"We get our cars through auto brokers whohandle trade ins. When you trade your car in, a dealer will give you something for it t get you and keep you asa customer. but he doesn't want it or need it. So he sells it cheap to an auto broker who sells it to a used dealership.

The other source of our cars in industry only auctions like Mannheim. (Monster auction in PA, dealers only).

Once we get them, we will never tell a buyer what we paid. And we mark it up at least $5,000"


Now - this was at a high volume dealer. At a luxury car dealer, you might have less luck - if the Lexus is $40K and you say $35K, that dealer may prefer to wait for the next buyer.

or, he bought it and marked it up $10K.

You don't really know, but dropping $5K off the price of the car is a good start. (Note, if it is under $10K, cut it in half).

Here is what I will occasionally do.

The price is $30K. Me: $25,000 is my number.

Dealer: blah blahblah

Me: I see. $24,500.

Dealer blah blah blah

Me: OK, fine $23,000.

make them negotiate against themselves. I do this in business all the time.


ANyway, the hard $5K is usually a pretty good guideline.

 

[Razorguns]

i always dangle the line:

"$XXXX.00. See that number there? Meet it, and you just got a deal, and the quicker you can get back out there and courting new customers..."

I always put the spotlight on them with the "so how BADLY *do* you want to sell this car?"

I continaully remind them -- it's NOT about me -- it's about THEM. I ALREADY know what I want to pay. The ball is in THEIR court. It's up to them to decide whether they want to 1) accept 2) reject 3) make a new offer.

Option 4) Convincing me to change my offer with mind games and persuasion is *not* an option. Keep that instilled in your mind. Pretend you're buying a house. It's a matter of negotating a *number*. Not negotiating whether you really would enjoy a nice sunroof on a warm FL morning.

 

[tuc biscuit]

I'm actually looking at buying a car at the minute, the car I want is £5,300 (about $9,000 I think) what would be a decent place for me to start my negotiations.

 

[pitbullstl]

That sounds like sound advice....every time i go to a dealership, they ask me how much I can afford......why do they do that? Are they trying to figure out exactly how much they can get out of me?
I will walk away, because Im not buying a car that I cant afford, no matter how much I want it

Never answer that question! Furthermore stay away from the scheister lots, with greaseballs that ask that sort of question. The leading question should always be: What type of vehicle are you in the market for???

Secondly, do your research..ie: Always no YOUR marketplace, meaning what the car you are looking at is selling for in your area.

Third, try buying from larger dealerships, if you are buying pre-owned, for two reasons, higher volume = smaller margins, and you will want the support that a franchise dealership offers after the sale.

Fourth, never buy on emotion, always walk away, give yourself a chance to shop around, there is always a better deal just around the corner.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Never answer that question! Furthermore stay away from the scheister lots, with greaseballs that ask that sort of question. The leading question should always be: What type of vehicle are you in the market for???

Secondly, do your research..ie: Always no YOUR marketplace, meaning what the car you are looking at is selling for in your area.

Third, try buying from larger dealerships, if you are buying pre-owned, for two reasons, higher volume = smaller margins, and you will want the support that a franchise dealership offers after the sale.

Fourth, never buy on emotion, always walk away, give yourself a chance to shop around, there is always a better deal just around the corner.

Wisdom from the mountaintop.

 

[R33t]

When I buy a car, I visit dealerships during non-operating hours. I check my auto options, details of each car, and research each vehicle via online.

Once I know what I want, I return to each dealership with an offer, and the sales department accepts or declines. Once at least two or more sales associates from different dealerships agree on my price, I go home and contact each dealership regarding beating the other dealerships' price. I usually say, "Another dealership was extremely generous and agreed to beat your price. I can supply you an invoice of their offer today. And if you're willing to beat it, we can have a deal by tomorrow." I always sleep on it.

Another thing, I only buy from dealerships offering pre-owned certified cars that carry factory warranties. They are usually larger dealerships. Right now, I drive a 2003 3 series that was originally priced at $36,000. I left the dealership paying $28,500 and have a full warranty. I know for a fact that the dealership bought the car from a private sell for less than $23,000.

Anyhow, good luck to whoever is car shopping!

R33t

 

[Synpax]

Here are a few things that might help:

1) Carsdirect.com. You can see the "blue book" prices there.

2) I think your question is wrong to begin with. Don't buy from a dealer at all, but from private sales. _Maybe_ look at ebay motors. Much better deal - for both the seller and the buyer, because you are both eliminating the middle man. You can find good deals in your auto trader free paper or in the classifieds.

3) Get a CarFax report.

4) If you go the private sales route, have a trusted mechanic give it a once over to make sure nothing is seriously wrong.

 

[Paulo]

It seems that people find it incredibly hard to put things in proper perspective when purchasing high dollar items, mainly things with 'emotional pricetags' such as cars and houses.


Well, here's a thought process that I use to great success in all of my consumer negotitations. (your mileage may vary )

How much does an entire day of work bring in? Let's use a wage of say 35,000 per year as an example. comes out to about 16.00 per hour. okay, so one day = 8 hours = 128.00. But you don't actually see all of that, so lets make a rough calculation of actual 'take home' pay. 128 x .70 = 89.6, so, basically 90 bucks per day. (for all you accountants out there, this is just an estimate)

Okay, now that we have some basic arithimitic under our belts, I will now move on to the point of this all.

If you get bent over for 1000.00 above what you feel is a fair market price for that car because you didn't want to exert the effort negotiating for 2 hours...guess what? You will now have to WORK 11 DAYS!!! to recoup the amount you handed over because you didn't want the short-term stress that comes with negotiating.


Just some food for thought...

 

[Synpax]

It works on small scale too. When I was working minimum wage jobs back in the day, I would bristle at the idea of spending an hour's work on lunch.

 

[Witold]

You will never get a good deal at a dealer. That's just not possible, no matter how well you negotiate. You need to look at private sales/classifieds.

First, get your financing in order from a local credit union. Then start looking at classifieds and match the car against Kelly Blue Book private sales prices. Furthermore, check vehicle reviews to see if the particular car/model is prone to expensive fixes. Finally, lowball people with prices offering quick settlement.

Car Trader is OK, but Craig's List is better.

 

[UnStopAbleForce]

Best way to buy a car from a dealership is to go there knowing what you want, and having an idea of what the car is worth. There are so many tools now a days, such as edmunds.com, kbb, etc. So go to these places first, then go to the dealership. When at the dealership, dont treat the salesperson like shit, remember they are just doing theyre job and alot of them are good people. Let them know you know what you want, and go from there. BTW, I'm a sales manager at a Honda dealership in NJ, so if anyone needs a honda PM me lol. Later.

 

[UnStopAbleForce]

BTW, pitbull is right. The larger dealerships to more volume, so they may take offers that smaller places may not quite as quick to accept.

 

[georgie24]

i wanna use an auction to buy cars, how do i go bout this?