Board Under Heel When Squating???

[rykertest]

I see a lot fo the older guys like zane/arnold/etc using a small section of 2X4 under their heels when doing squats, and yet today, I never see that done.

Why is that not used anymore. To be honest, I find it helps my stability a bit more when doing that, but I'm not if thats the whole point, or if there is some scientific reason why thats not a good thing to do, or if it's just a different way of doing the same thing and thereis no harm in it.

Feedback on this is appreciated and k is given for helpful answers.

 

[theprofessor]

oh fuck yea, i use the 2.5lb plates myself... one under each heel... helps with form... i feel it less in my back, as i used to have a bad folding action going on ...it makes you learn to "push through" with your heels...
all i realy know about it is from experience, never realy looked into it much...

 

[rykertest]

oh fuck yea, i use the 2.5lb plates myself... one under each heel... helps with form... i feel it less in my back, as i used to have a bad folding action going on ...it makes you learn to "push through" with your heels...
all i realy know about it is from experience, never realy looked into it much...

Yeah thats what I feel too. I want to make sure it's not bad for me or anything.

 

[rykertest]

bump, come on somebody has to have some feedback on this.

 

[kmoe42]

haha our coaches make us put a US postal service box under us.. bout 1 foot off the ground... and when we squat we have to touch it with our butts.. ya it sux.. and i have seen guys before use weights under their heels coaches wouldnt dare let us tho

 

[Sassy69]

haha our coaches make us put a US postal service box under us.. bout 1 foot off the ground... and when we squat we have to touch it with our butts.. ya it sux.. and i have seen guys before use weights under their heels coaches wouldnt dare let us tho

Box squat is a good component of developing good squat control & technique. The plates under the heels also helps but you need not pitch forward .. not real cool when you do a face plant in the gym....

 

[bicepts101]

Box squat is a good component of developing good squat control & technique. The plates under the heels also helps but you need not pitch forward .. not real cool when you do a face plant in the gym....

yep no doubt

 

[rykertest]

ok, time for me to admit my squating abilities just suck. My form sucks, my lifting ability sucks and I hate doing them. I have tried everything I know and I just never feel right or safe doing them. I have watched all the videos on form and had trainers coaches, friends, etc show me how to do it and it just never works for me. Now that I am getting into my 30's, I notice my knees are more sore after doing them (never had any knee problems until now) and I am doing other things. BUT, I just quit my gym since I got a deal on a complete home gym. I like what I see about box squats, and once I get the box, I will try to make this my leg workout foundation. I don't need or want massive huge contest legs, I want strong real world strength legs and I am about 60% there.

SO, would box squats work in my situation or is the leg press going to have to be purchased? Thanks for everyones feedback.

 

[fortunatesun]

I think box squats are generally becoming the prefered method of improving your squat. A good explanation of the basics can be found at: Westside Barbell
Click on Nov. 04

I'll also give a link to an article for learning proper squat technique. You've probably read them before, but you never know when one of them will actually hit home:Teaching The Squat

Check out the Training Information Vault sticky in the Weightlifting Forum if you haven't already. Lot's of good resources there that will answer your additional questions.

 

[thelion2005]

I see a lot fo the older guys like zane/arnold/etc using a small section of 2X4 under their heels when doing squats, and yet today, I never see that done.

Why is that not used anymore. To be honest, I find it helps my stability a bit more when doing that, but I'm not if thats the whole point, or if there is some scientific reason why thats not a good thing to do, or if it's just a different way of doing the same thing and thereis no harm in it.

Feedback on this is appreciated and k is given for helpful answers.

The board or plates are still being used. Supposedly, taller people with longer legs receive more stimulation in the quads with this change in angle.

I find using the board or plates to be ackward and a potential safety hazard as you have heavy iron on your shoulders and you may stumble even the slightest.

Also, you can't do this when competing, so why get used to it.

I have shoes with lifts in the heels by Adidas ... they are wood. If I want, I can get that angle change that way. However, I'm not having any problem being flatfooted and I'm 6 ft tall with a 32 inseam.

 

[rykertest]

thanks for the reply folks. I am 5'8" and have a 34" inseam if that changes your thoughts on this versus me. I will review some of the suggested reading but will also try this new method and maybe this can help me get some better legs under me. Thanks again.

 

[Wulfgar]

Strech/massage your calves, strengthen your tibialis
the board method works for those who cannot maintain a Dorsiflexed position in the ankle furing knee flexion(the soleus is the culprit)
the only problem with elevating the heels is it puts your hips into an anterior pelvic tilt which can exacerbate tight calves/hamstrings/ and several muscles of the lumbo-pelvic hip problems. This can lead to all kinds of altered joint kinematics leading to overuse symptoms(arthritis, bursitis, etc..) stemming from synergistic domance because of the altered length/tension relationships of the muscles in question.
If you need to start by using the plates under your feet make sure to slowly(maybe every few weeks) go to a smaller size plate until you ultimately can have perfect form with your feet flat on the ground.
so in closing..STRETCH YOUR CALVES..

 

[ViperHMS]

I used to see it in HS with a buddy that had fallen arches. Since then I've never seen anyone use it. I'm great at squatting and did powerlifting when I was in HS so I know that my form is great. If you dont break parallel your lift does not count. I like to go down and sit right at parallel when squatting, for me it creates great strenght as I go up it is so explosive. I dont think I could ever put plates under my heals as that would just make me too unstable and would feel very unsafe at the same time. As a basic form I would not advise anyone put plates under their heals.

 

[thefantom1]

I always thought the reason for weights under the heels was because the ankle was not flexible... I started with 25lbs and worked my way down to none.. When I first started squatting with nothing under the heels...I would pitch forward (no ankle flexibility) put the 25's there and took care of the problem..then worked my way down to no weights...

 

[blut wump]

This came up in the training forum a few months back.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5358023

 

[Goldprospector]

There is an article in the latest issue of MuscleMag on this very subject...They say that the whole reason it started was for taller peeps so they would benifit more from the squat.
They also say that shorter peeps should not use it and taller peeps should use it all of the time

 

[blut wump]

I'm 6'2" and hate anything that tends to tip me forwards while I'm squatting. I'm still of the opinion that any need to place plates under your heels stems from an ankle tendon or hamstring inflexibility and that it should be addressed as a problem.

 

[yoop33]

I noticed the other day that I was on my toes almost the whole time when pressing back up on the squat. This took away from some of the stability because you are using about a third of your foot. I bet something under your heels would help with this problem. But I think someone already mentioned that

 

[Guvna]

I always use a board under my heels, and I am plenty flexible. It helps me keep my back closer to perpendicular to the ground, easing the stress on my lower back when squatting. Your back should be as straight up and down as it possibly can be when squatting. Years from now you will thank yourself for it.

 

[Goldprospector]

I'm 6'2" and hate anything that tends to tip me forwards while I'm squatting. I'm still of the opinion that any need to place plates under your heels stems from an ankle tendon or hamstring inflexibility and that it should be addressed as a problem.

I don't think it is a "need" to put something under the heel due to lack of flexability...
The way I under stand it, it has something to do with gettin the quad more involved in the squat. I can't explain it other than I am 6'5" and when I do squats without a board...my hamstrings and glutes are the only thing that gets sore...I neve feel anything in my quads at all...when i put my heels on a board, my quads burn from the squat and they are sore afterwards.

 

[fortunatesun]

I noticed the other day that I was on my toes almost the whole time when pressing back up on the squat. This took away from some of the stability because you are using about a third of your foot. I bet something under your heels would help with this problem. But I think someone already mentioned that

This is not good, yoop. The idea is to have your weight centered on your heels so that you can drive up with maximum force. As you noticed stability is a problem for you and this is the type of thing that can lead to injury if you're not careful, or even if you are. Squatting is something that comes easier for some than for others. For the majority of us this means taking some time with a lighter weight to make sure you're doing things right before moving on.
I think yours isn't so much a flexability issue as you're not using the correct form, something you have in common with more people that work out than you might imagine. Here's a good description of what you should be doing. Do yourself a favor a try doing them this way the next time you work legs.
It may be that one of the reasons you end up on your toes is that your posterior chain (hamstring/glutes) is relatively weak and you end up overcompensating. I'd try adding in exercises such as Romanian Deadlifts and Good Mornings that target this group. If you go to the Weightlifting Forum there's a sticky called the Training Information Vault where you will find information about how to do these exercises as well as links to lots of other useful information. There's also a great article there called The Squat that discusses much of this stuff in my post in depth.

 

[Goldprospector]

I have had to adjust my 45 degree leg press machine to its maximun setting as to the position of the toes. It would be hard to place a board so the highest position works well for me to get a good quad workout.

 

[rykertest]

so to elaborate on my initial question, when doing a proper box squat below paralell, do I sit all the way down or just touch my butt to the seat and then return to the upright position. In my box squat search, it's either unclear in the video examples or the info doesn't say one way or the other. Thanks.

 

[immortalis]

This makes me grin kinda, cause my strength coach in college used to actually put plates under our toes to keep us back on our heals when doing squats so that we wouldnt put too much straign on our knee's.

Its good to hear different opinions on form etc.

 

[fortunatesun]

so to elaborate on my initial question, when doing a proper box squat below paralell, do I sit all the way down or just touch my butt to the seat and then return to the upright position. In my box squat search, it's either unclear in the video examples or the info doesn't say one way or the other. Thanks.

You want to totally de-load: your hip flexors should be relaxed. This is the key element. The weight on your back is now static and and you have to develop the starting strength to power the bar back up.

 

[theprofessor]

I always use a board under my heels, and I am plenty flexible. It helps me keep my back closer to perpendicular to the ground, easing the stress on my lower back when squatting. Your back should be as straight up and down as it possibly can be when squatting. Years from now you will thank yourself for it.

i was always under the impression it eases tension on the lower back...
im a smaller framed guy and as i approach 200% of my bodyweight in squats i tend to feel it in my back if i dont use A THIN 2.5lb. plate...

 

[ViperHMS]

so to elaborate on my initial question, when doing a proper box squat below paralell, do I sit all the way down or just touch my butt to the seat and then return to the upright position. In my box squat search, it's either unclear in the video examples or the info doesn't say one way or the other. Thanks.

I wouldnt sit on the box, just touch and go. If you sit chances are that your are going to cause something to relax that you will need in order to push the weight back up and could injure (man drinking and spelling = bad combo) yourself.

 

[Slyder190]

Strech/massage your calves, strengthen your tibialis
the board method works for those who cannot maintain a Dorsiflexed position in the ankle furing knee flexion(the soleus is the culprit)
the only problem with elevating the heels is it puts your hips into an anterior pelvic tilt which can exacerbate tight calves/hamstrings/ and several muscles of the lumbo-pelvic hip problems. This can lead to all kinds of altered joint kinematics leading to overuse symptoms(arthritis, bursitis, etc..) stemming from synergistic domance because of the altered length/tension relationships of the muscles in question.
If you need to start by using the plates under your feet make sure to slowly(maybe every few weeks) go to a smaller size plate until you ultimately can have perfect form with your feet flat on the ground.
so in closing..STRETCH YOUR CALVES..

Nice info.

 

[blut wump]

I have had to adjust my 45 degree leg press machine to its maximun setting as to the position of the toes. It would be hard to place a board so the highest position works well for me to get a good quad workout.

Have you tried front squats? Normal back squats, whether powerlifter style or Olympic style call on the posterior chain as the primary drivers for a lot of the movement. If your quads are typically stronger than your posterior chain then your posterior chain will end up more fatigued than your quads from the exercise and that's where you'll feel the soreness.

As fortunateson mentions to yoop33, if the imbalance is too great then the lifter will tend to move the load ever more onto the quads leading to a breakdown in form.

Anyway, front squats are a good choice to target the quads more directly and involve the core to a sginificant degree. It's also natural to hold the body more erect during front squats for those concerned about the dangers of leaning forwards. A strong posterior chain and a good arch should protect you against any dangers of leaning forwards, though.

 

[rykertest]

thanks to everyone for your replies, very helpful! K to everyone in this thread and I will be trying box squats as suggested in this thread this afternoon and I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

 

[Dellyo]

Strech/massage your calves, strengthen your tibialis
the board method works for those who cannot maintain a Dorsiflexed position in the ankle furing knee flexion(the soleus is the culprit)
the only problem with elevating the heels is it puts your hips into an anterior pelvic tilt which can exacerbate tight calves/hamstrings/ and several muscles of the lumbo-pelvic hip problems. This can lead to all kinds of altered joint kinematics leading to overuse symptoms(arthritis, bursitis, etc..) stemming from synergistic domance because of the altered length/tension relationships of the muscles in question.
If you need to start by using the plates under your feet make sure to slowly(maybe every few weeks) go to a smaller size plate until you ultimately can have perfect form with your feet flat on the ground.
so in closing..STRETCH YOUR CALVES..

Great reply....I was wondering if any 1 out there knows there Biomechanics..

 

[yoop33]

This is not good, yoop. The idea is to have your weight centered on your heels so that you can drive up with maximum force. As you noticed stability is a problem for you and this is the type of thing that can lead to injury if you're not careful, or even if you are. Squatting is something that comes easier for some than for others. For the majority of us this means taking some time with a lighter weight to make sure you're doing things right before moving on.
I think yours isn't so much a flexability issue as you're not using the correct form, something you have in common with more people that work out than you might imagine. Here's a good description of what you should be doing. Do yourself a favor a try doing them this way the next time you work legs.
It may be that one of the reasons you end up on your toes is that your posterior chain (hamstring/glutes) is relatively weak and you end up overcompensating. I'd try adding in exercises such as Romanian Deadlifts and Good Mornings that target this group. If you go to the Weightlifting Forum there's a sticky called the Training Information Vault where you will find information about how to do these exercises as well as links to lots of other useful information. There's also a great article there called The Squat that discusses much of this stuff in my post in depth.

AWESOME... Thanks for the heads up!! I really had no idea. Do you think part of my problem comes from my height? (6'5) or should this have nothing to do with it?

 

[fortunatesun]

AWESOME... Thanks for the heads up!! I really had no idea. Do you think part of my problem comes from my height? (6'5) or should this have nothing to do with it?

Well, there's at least one tall guy who will disagree with me: T-Nation

My answer is that height is a factor, but neither negative or positive. What I mean to say is that height by itself doesn't determine how well someone can squat. It comes into play by altering the Musculoskeletal Leverage needed to best perform the lift. Obviously, though, the same can be said for a short or average sized man as well. You have to figure out how to best utilise the structure that you have. (You'd think that part wouldn't be a problem. You've lived within your musculoskeletal structure your entire lifetime.) Then you attack the situation through skill training.
When you watch a video of a guy performing a squat, just remember that you wouldn't want to perform it exactly the same way- that guy isn't you. You need to take that as a base and customize it for your own needs. That's why it's important to take the weight down and experiment: width of stance, or maybe switching to a powerlifter squat as TC suggests at T-Nation. Run through the checkpoints of a good squat by having a training partner check you out if you can or having a video made. You need to have the confidence that you are most efficiently moving the load and that comes from numerous repetition. It's slow going at first, but now you have a solid foundation. You can load the plates back on and your gains are going to come much faster.