Blocking too much Estrogen causes Negative effects.

[SOLID]

Ok, we all know that Anti E's are good for helping stop the conversion of T to E, however I've come to believe that blocking too much E is a bad thing. Why?

Because your body is always trying to stay in homeostasis (keeping levels of T and E regulated and in balance). When you supplement your body with high amounts of Exogenious T your Estrogen Production/conversion will kick in at a much higher rate to compensate for the high levels of T (homeostasis).

Now, once your own or Endo T levels shut down and your balls begin to shrink is when the problems set in. Why?

Because now your are not producing any Endo T and the high amounts of T you are supplementing with are working against you by conversion of T to E.

To complicate the matter taking in high amounts of Anti E's are simply adding to the problem. If your E levels are suppressed then your body is going to fight to regulate or balance those levels (homeostasis) by mass producing E.

So your left with an abundance of E production and Conversion of E from the high amounts of Exo T your supplementing with. Remember your body's trying to regulate or maintain normality (hemeostasis).

Here's another problem...

Your body can not make enough Estrogen to balance it's natural Estrogen/Testosterone hormone level ratio...so that Estrogen production will continue and never shut off until the T levels come down.

Another problem....

When the Testosterone usuage is stoped you now have a extremely high amounts of E while T diminishes. The E is the dominant hormone until you get your own T level back up... (you already know this). Your balls are shut down...no telling how long it will take to them up and running again...and your hoping that clomid and Anastrozole is going to get those peas plump again.

So Postcycle we have next to no T and high amounts of E...ever wonder why your sex drive goes to shit?

So how do keep from having all these problems?

My belief is...For one, don't use such high amounts of Testosterone- thus you will have a much smaller conversion rate. It doesn't take mass amounts of T to grow...I don't care if your 300lbs you can still grow from 500mg of Test/wk. The side effects from high doses outway the quicker gains.

Secondly, if you don't use high amounts of gear than suppressing E levels isn't much of a concern...since Estrogen blockers are not going to help much anyway if your E levels keep trying to balance out with the high T levels your supplementing. Don't leave switch on for Estrogen Production. So don't try to suppress your E levels to nothing by taking Anti E's it's only going to make your internal system produce more E!

I just experienced the negative effects from supressing my E levels too much. I was taking Liquidex 1mg/ed and 40mg of Nolvadex/ed along with a fat burner stack to help aid in fatloss during my var only cycle. I was doing this for a little over a month and a half with great results. Well that's when I made a big mistake, I was adding T3 to the stack and felt I should have some test in there as well to prevent muscle catabolism. So I added 400mg of Prop/wk too! It only took about 4 days to feel the ill effects. No added sex drive, immeadiate water retention (on Propionate), Puffy nips from hell , and gyno. It all makes sence...I had little to no E prior to the T(Prop) addition, my Endo T levels were already low so no need for Endo E levels to rise with the use of the Anti E's (Liquidex, Nolvadex) I was using with the Var. But once I added the T(Prop)- my T levels shot up so rapidly that my body went into over drive Producing E to try to balance out my Estrogen levels with the foriegn amounts of Testosterone. The added anti E's weren't helping just making matters worse. I even upped the Nolvadex to 80mg and Liquidex to 2mg/D not knowing that it wasn't doing any good. I now know why I went from hard, ripped and vascular to a puffy water retaining puffy nippled bitch. I hope some of you can get some good out of this.



SOLID

 

[mvmaxx]

I now know why I went from hard, ripped and vascular to a puffy water retaining puffy nippled bitch.

SOLID

Well....you got the "bitch" part right.

 

[mvmaxx]

To complicate the matter taking in high amounts of Anti E's are simply adding to the problem. If your E levels are suppressed then your body is going to fight to regulate or balance those levels (homeostasis) by mass producing E.
SOLID

I'm no resident expert but I can't say I agree with this statement.
In my understanding Anastrozole, Letrozole, Exemestane all kill off the aromatase enzyme which prevents the excess testosterone from turning into estrogen. Therefore you won't get the mass production of estrogen.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

prolactin

this is a dopamine issue.. likely exacerbated by your t3 use

 

[SOLID]

Re: Re: Blocking too much Estrogen causes Negative effects.

I'm no resident expert but I can't say I agree with this statement.
In my understanding Anastrozole, Letrozole, Exemestane all kill off the aromatase enzyme which prevents the excess testosterone from turning into estrogen. Therefore you won't get the mass production of estrogen.

hey smartie pants- how bout you take another look.

another problem...

Your body can not make enough Estrogen to balance it's natural Estrogen/Testosterone hormone level ratio...so that Estrogen production will continue and never shut off until the T levels come down.

it doesn't matter that your taking anti E's that prevent the conversion of T to E - that is just one complication. The other complication is talking about having high levels of foriegn T in your body which turns on the switch for Endo E production. So were not talking about conversion in this instance...poopy pants!

 

[SOLID]

prolactin

this is a dopamine issue.. likely exacerbated by your t3 use

being that this was an Estrogen related thread...I didn't mention I was taking BROMO!!!


SOLID

 

[SOLID]

Re: Re: Blocking too much Estrogen causes Negative effects.

Well....you got the "bitch" part right.

come on punk...where ya at know? huh...HUH?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

perhaps if you had it would have made understanding your problem easier..

and it has..

btw- must have misread.. only saw indication of puffy nips (not the gyno)

this sounds like an IGF problem.. likely exacerbated by arimidex (yes this can happen) the orals and the t3..

best advice given info.. stop the var and t3.. and switch to femara. stopping the test is an option.. it would seem unwise to continue the var..

and yes estrogen is likely at least part of the problem here..


btw- WHY were you taking dex and nolva with VAR.. completely uneccessary.. var should suppress test production which will suppress estrogen production (you have to have test or andro.. which are both lowered.. with var use) ??

 

[SOLID]

this sounds like an IGF problem.. likely exacerbated by arimidex (yes this can happen) the orals and the t3..


why would you assume it's IGF and not Estrogen that has caused the problem? I still attribute it to the E since I was getting E sides...water retention, gyno, puffy nips.



best advice given info.. stop the var and t3.. and switch to femara. stopping the test is an option.. it would seem unwise to continue the var..

why stop the Var and T3 - I was fine with both until I added the Propianate. I'm dropping the Test for sure.

and yes estrogen is likely at least part of the problem here..


I believe so. When eliminating factors I was fine running everything- getting great results ...until I added the Tprop.

btw- WHY were you taking dex and nolva with VAR.. completely uneccessary.. var should suppress test production which will suppress estrogen production (you have to have test or andro.. which are both lowered.. with var use) ??

I was taking the dex and nolva to help tighten up, aid with fat loss trying to create an dominating enviornment of T over E in my body.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

if you are taking ANAVAR you will be producing little if any Test and thus little estrogen as well.. thus the arimidex and nolva were unnecessary..

part of the reason that you now have E issues.. is because you have likely upregulated your aromatase levels.. with use of dex and nolva in a low test environment.. adding test after doing so likley led to relatively high E levels.. as well as throwing the rest of your endocrine system for a loop..

 

[jboldman]

I'm finding it very hard indeed to believe that estrogen has anything to do with this! 1 mg of arimidex and 40mg of nolvadex a day with 400mg of prop a week! this just seems too unlikely!

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I'm finding it very hard indeed to believe that estrogen has anything to do with this! 1 mg of arimidex and 40mg of nolvadex a day with 400mg of prop a week! this just seems too unlikely!

agree that it is more likely an IGF issue.. but there may be some E issues due to previous ancillary use..

btw- how much bromo? and what kind?

 

[Golfer18--old]

I had the same shit happen to me. I stopped liquidex and did nolva/bromo and it solved my problem. I doubt this problem has anything if little to do with estrogen.

 

[SOLID]

agree that it is more likely an IGF issue.. but there may be some E issues due to previous ancillary use..

btw- how much bromo? and what kind?

Mac, you just stated above that the cause was the low T therefore added T created more E...which was my whole point!

Yet your also saying that it's cause of IGF...?



jboldman- "I'm finding it very hard indeed to believe that estrogen has anything to do with this! 1 mg of arimidex and 40mg of nolvadex a day with 400mg of prop a week! this just seems too unlikely! "

It's because E levels were so suppressed when T levels rose dramatically - E levels had to compensate for the T rise...creating a open faucit for the E to keep producing....get it people!!! The E doesn't shut off - only keeps producing to balance out with the hightend T!


also...Bromo 2.5mg/ED- Parlodel.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Mac, you just stated above that the cause was the low T therefore added T created more E...
not exactly.. actually it was a combinationf factors.. more the use of dex and possibly nolva in a low T environment

Yet your also saying that it's cause of IGF...?
YUP.. btw- E upregulates IGF production

 

[drveejay11]

Interesting thread

 

[SOLID]

SOLID- Mac, you just stated above that the cause was the low T therefore added T created more E...




MAC-not exactly.. actually it was a combinationf factors.. more the use of dex and possibly nolva in a low T environment

.....

which caused Endo E levels to climb to compete with the rise in T levels...just what I've been saying.

SOLID-Yet your also saying that it's cause of IGF...?


MAC-YUP.. btw- E upregulates IGF production

No...if it were caused by elevated IGF levels I would have had symtoms before I added the Tp.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Solid,


orals and dex elevate IGF-1

the addition of TP with elevation of E FURTHER(even minimally when low E levels) raises IGF..

had you NOT been using DEX prior.. which either upregulated production, is not particularly effective for you, or is now being more rapidly metabolised due to liver adaptation.. you likely would not have incured the rise in E..

it is not clear what role nolva played.. as it has been shown to lower IGF

btw- if you get gyno in the presence of NOLVA it is NOT E induced..


BTW- nolva is an ESTROGEN.. it is a SERM

note- it is also not clear what impact bromo may have had.. will have to look into that further.. normally it should reduce chances of gyno.. but its presence along with t3, etc.. may have exacerbated the problem..