Just get chinamans 50mg winny, the new ones. They are very potent. Last time I had to run 100mg before even noticing anything, It took 2½ weeks before I even felt any joint pain. This time I'm running his new 50mg tabs, with grapeseed extract ½ tab with food in the morning and ½ tab with food in the evening. I nitice a better pump, increased vascularity, JOINT PAIN in about one week, and that has never ever happened to me in this short time. They are chhep as hell too, be sure you get the new ones, they are a little bit thinner and much harder, almost impossible to break.