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better prohormone absorption
- Thread starter winkman
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corvettesummer
New member
prohormone absorption
if absorption is your game i would recommend the cyclodextrin type prohorm. so far they have proven to be better absorbed than all the orals. some of the cyclo pros now have a sustained release so they keep your test levels raised for longer than a couple of hours. also check out the topical sprays. ergopharms androspray seems to have some satisfied users but i have'nt tried it.
if absorption is your game i would recommend the cyclodextrin type prohorm. so far they have proven to be better absorbed than all the orals. some of the cyclo pros now have a sustained release so they keep your test levels raised for longer than a couple of hours. also check out the topical sprays. ergopharms androspray seems to have some satisfied users but i have'nt tried it.
Big Cat HH
New member
Topical is a better bet
Cyclodextrin based prohormones do have a high delivery rate, but for healthy young men they are incapable of raising T-levels substantially above baseline tio make them worth the money, the tests conducted with 25 mg versus 50 mg doses have shown that the rate of test increases was actually higher in the 25 mg dose at intervals of 20-60-120 and 180 minutes. And at intervals of 10 and 40 minutes, the 50 mg only slightly outdid the 25 mg. In my book that makes cyclo great for women and older men in raising t-levels safely, but useless for someone looking for real gains.
In this case I would recommend topical delivery, especially if you can find one with penetration enhancers like IPM. This has a sustained 10-12 hour delivery period, meaning that with two daily applications you raise t-levels round the clock. The conversion rate, because of the sustained release, is also much greater than in orals and it doesn't tax the liver at all.
If not orals are still a better choice than cyclo's because they best allow you to stack and adapt doses readily. This is still my preferred method of delivery, but I think in your case perhaps topical is a better choice.
Try reading this :
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm
Cyclodextrin based prohormones do have a high delivery rate, but for healthy young men they are incapable of raising T-levels substantially above baseline tio make them worth the money, the tests conducted with 25 mg versus 50 mg doses have shown that the rate of test increases was actually higher in the 25 mg dose at intervals of 20-60-120 and 180 minutes. And at intervals of 10 and 40 minutes, the 50 mg only slightly outdid the 25 mg. In my book that makes cyclo great for women and older men in raising t-levels safely, but useless for someone looking for real gains.
In this case I would recommend topical delivery, especially if you can find one with penetration enhancers like IPM. This has a sustained 10-12 hour delivery period, meaning that with two daily applications you raise t-levels round the clock. The conversion rate, because of the sustained release, is also much greater than in orals and it doesn't tax the liver at all.
If not orals are still a better choice than cyclo's because they best allow you to stack and adapt doses readily. This is still my preferred method of delivery, but I think in your case perhaps topical is a better choice.
Try reading this :
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm
winkman said:
This would not work particularly well because the active needs to be dissolved in order to increase the thermodynamic activity that drives diffusion. What you could do is dissolve it in ethanol or propylene glycol. You could also use cyclodextrins (but if you use them, go the intranasal route -- this is as effective as topicals if you do it religiously (every 2 hours), but obviously that is a bit of a pain. With sublingual deliery, the surface area is very limited, so unless you are a woman, or just using it for pre-workout, you really would have to use them almost constantly.
As the other poster mentioned, topical is the way to go. We make one, but it would obviously be rather biased if I recommended it, so I would recommend AndroSpray -- it is an excellent product.
so you experts suggest spray (transdermal) over cyclo or oral....
should i give ergopharm's norandro spray a try since they're the one who invent the diol forms?
what about their Psycho Nordiol and Psycho Diol? what about this kind of delivery method?
im looking for something for BEST GAIN but also I dont want very androgenic effect and dont want the risk to have my natural level shut down.
should i give ergopharm's norandro spray a try since they're the one who invent the diol forms?
what about their Psycho Nordiol and Psycho Diol? what about this kind of delivery method?
im looking for something for BEST GAIN but also I dont want very androgenic effect and dont want the risk to have my natural level shut down.
Big Cat HH
New member
If you want the best gains sublingual, nasal and psycho are out. They have a maximum 25 mg delivery, comparable to just over 300 mg orally. This is considered a very conservative dose. Its great for womeon and older guys looking for a boots, and the Psycho is great for psychomotoric stimulation (balls to the wall energy) but for gains, they should be your last choice.
Transdermal is the best method, with the one obvious flaw that there is no guessing how much is absorbed, how fast at any given time. With orals you can, but obviously a lot is filtered out in the liver, so you need higher doses.
I like the Norandro spray personally and highly recommend it as probably the best Nor-diol transdermal available, but it is pretty expensive.
For best gain you are better off stacking two or more prohormones together.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm
Transdermal is the best method, with the one obvious flaw that there is no guessing how much is absorbed, how fast at any given time. With orals you can, but obviously a lot is filtered out in the liver, so you need higher doses.
I like the Norandro spray personally and highly recommend it as probably the best Nor-diol transdermal available, but it is pretty expensive.
For best gain you are better off stacking two or more prohormones together.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catproh.htm
Re: Re: better prohormone absorption
Sweet!
*Dumps bottle of 1-AD into tall glass of whiskey*
Now, maybe this will work! I may not GET bigger, but I'll definitely THINK I'm bigger.
......
Actually, I do have a question. Are oral prohormones processed (esterified, alkalated, whatever) in any special way to help them survive digestion? If so, does this processing make other delivery methods pointless, since they're orally optimized? Just curious...I know next to nothing about prohormones, since I never considered them worthwhile, so if anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate that.
Par Deus said:
Sweet!
*Dumps bottle of 1-AD into tall glass of whiskey*
Now, maybe this will work! I may not GET bigger, but I'll definitely THINK I'm bigger.
......
Actually, I do have a question. Are oral prohormones processed (esterified, alkalated, whatever) in any special way to help them survive digestion? If so, does this processing make other delivery methods pointless, since they're orally optimized? Just curious...I know next to nothing about prohormones, since I never considered them worthwhile, so if anyone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate that.
Re: Re: Re: better prohormone absorption
So, from what I understand from Par Deus & Cat, the best option for GAINS is transdermal delivery and possibly combined with oral caps?
Deus, you told me about the intranasal, but do you all think the transdermal would be better even if I used the intranasal cyclo every 2 hrs?
If so, then a spray/gel combined with high oral doses would be the way to go?
LMAO!Belial said:
So, from what I understand from Par Deus & Cat, the best option for GAINS is transdermal delivery and possibly combined with oral caps?
Deus, you told me about the intranasal, but do you all think the transdermal would be better even if I used the intranasal cyclo every 2 hrs?
If so, then a spray/gel combined with high oral doses would be the way to go?
Big Cat HH
New member
I use cyclos as a way of adminsterig some prohormones for other purposes. Say I'm stacking oral 1AD with topical Nor-diol, I may want to add a dash of cyclo 4AD or when my gf comes around I may not be able to get it up anymore. Both 1AD and Nor-diol have a negative effect on libido. Or just before a workout some cyclo 4AD would probably boost your workouts a bit.
Otherwise I would stick to a topical and/or oral stack.
Otherwise I would stick to a topical and/or oral stack.
I think orals are next to worthless for men -- and to answer another question, no, they are not c-17 alkylkated or anything else to improve bioavailability. There is a reason that there are no oral androgens (excepting c-17 aa'd) made by US pharmaceutical companies but two transdermals -- oral bioavailability is terrible for androgens -- around 1-3% vs probably 50% for intranasal.
If you truly do intranasal religiously -- 2 squirts per nostril with a metered pump every two hours, 4 squirts before bed and 4 more in the middle of the night (I used GHB to go back to sleep), they work as well as the topicals, but obviously this is inconvenient, to say the least.
I think the very best method is to use a trasdermal day and night, and use the intransal 30 minutes and 5 minutes before a workout for a CNS boost
If you truly do intranasal religiously -- 2 squirts per nostril with a metered pump every two hours, 4 squirts before bed and 4 more in the middle of the night (I used GHB to go back to sleep), they work as well as the topicals, but obviously this is inconvenient, to say the least.
I think the very best method is to use a trasdermal day and night, and use the intransal 30 minutes and 5 minutes before a workout for a CNS boost
So would this transdermal application be twice/day (morning & night, for instance) or does one require it more often to reap the benefits? Also, does the surface area for application need to be at least 50% of the body?
As for the cyclo intranasal, every two hours while awake isn't too inconveient for me personally, it's the waking up in the middle of the night to do it and potentially having bad sleep disruptions which would interfere with recovery -- not to mention the expense of using 4 sprays of cyclo every 2 hours. 'Course, I guess the transdermal can get very pricey too depending on how much is used per application.
As for the cyclo intranasal, every two hours while awake isn't too inconveient for me personally, it's the waking up in the middle of the night to do it and potentially having bad sleep disruptions which would interfere with recovery -- not to mention the expense of using 4 sprays of cyclo every 2 hours. 'Course, I guess the transdermal can get very pricey too depending on how much is used per application.
chrisharris123
New member
AN ANSWER TO BOLD AT BOTTOM FROM ANYONE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED AND I HAVE SOME LAB INFO ON ANDRODERM PATCH
Androderm testosterone transdermal system - it has a ton of lab studies with the box of packs I got. The androdorm patch contains 2.5mg/day of which 2.4 is absorbed into the bloodstream as free test. However, in contrast, 200mg of enanthate once every 14 days versus 1 2.5mg patch a day is LESS EFFECTIVE than the measly patch.
90% of injectable enanthate and I would assume most oil based is exreted in the urine and 6% in the feces. Again, not my opinion this is according to WatsonPharma and had FDA approval. that is crazy that 32.6mg of transdermal androderm has a higher level of test in the blood throughout the whole day. They did a study for 6 months - 30 patients taking that tiny amount of enanthate and the others taking that tiny amount of the patch. And the patch has great results. Of course I am now using 3 at a time to jumpstart my prohormone cycle of superflexx 2. I watched my boy put on 15 pounds in 5 weeks and I thought he was at his potential less a massive a-drol and bloating cycle - i guess not. THat stuff is supposed to be incredible - or my friend for once lied about his cycle - I will let you guys know if you care.
sorry for spelling im in a rush and trying to find one simple answer....
SHOULD YOU TAKE PROBIOTICS WITH PROHORMONES TO INCREASE ABSORPTION - I am pretty savvy with Search Engine Optimization and can't find a damn article or post on this - ANYONE???
Androderm testosterone transdermal system - it has a ton of lab studies with the box of packs I got. The androdorm patch contains 2.5mg/day of which 2.4 is absorbed into the bloodstream as free test. However, in contrast, 200mg of enanthate once every 14 days versus 1 2.5mg patch a day is LESS EFFECTIVE than the measly patch.
90% of injectable enanthate and I would assume most oil based is exreted in the urine and 6% in the feces. Again, not my opinion this is according to WatsonPharma and had FDA approval. that is crazy that 32.6mg of transdermal androderm has a higher level of test in the blood throughout the whole day. They did a study for 6 months - 30 patients taking that tiny amount of enanthate and the others taking that tiny amount of the patch. And the patch has great results. Of course I am now using 3 at a time to jumpstart my prohormone cycle of superflexx 2. I watched my boy put on 15 pounds in 5 weeks and I thought he was at his potential less a massive a-drol and bloating cycle - i guess not. THat stuff is supposed to be incredible - or my friend for once lied about his cycle - I will let you guys know if you care.
sorry for spelling im in a rush and trying to find one simple answer....
SHOULD YOU TAKE PROBIOTICS WITH PROHORMONES TO INCREASE ABSORPTION - I am pretty savvy with Search Engine Optimization and can't find a damn article or post on this - ANYONE???
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