Best way to train for hypertrophy .

[VictorBR]

OK , this is it .

I will have to admit that my knowledge in training is not that good . Actually it is bad , I have a pretty damn good knowledge when it comes to diet and AAS but when it comes to training ....it is not that good ....

So , I am going to start a biig cycle soon and I really want to have the training in check as I have my diet and rest ....

So , I will tell you guys how I have been training for the last years and you tell me what do you think and what I could change for better results . The details can make the difference when it comes to DIET and I am starting to believe that the details can ALSO make the difference when it comes to training ..

my goal is ALWAYS hypertrophy , I really don't care about strenght gains , I believe that when your muscles hypertrophy the strength gains will come on its own ...

So , I have always liked to TRAIN one MAJOR muscle group per day , this way I can hammer it pretty hard . So for the last 4-5 years this is the schedule that I follow . A LOT of people keep telling me to train 2 muscle groups each day , like chest and tris ( monday and thursday ) , backs and bis ( thusday and friday ) ..etc... because they say 6 days it too much for the muscle to rest ....But what they don't understand is that when I work backs , it is actually backs , shoulders and bis , when I work chest , it is actually chest , shoulders and tris , yeah it is not ISOLATED workouts for the shoulders and tris , BUT they are working out hard so ...... that is my point of view ...

But I just prefer to do it like this : ( what do you guys think ? )

Monday - backs ( upper and lower )
Thusday - Chest , abs
Wednesday - Legs ( quads , Hams , calves )
thursday - shoulders / traps
friday - Biceps , abs
saturday - triceps
sunday - OFF

So , this is how I have been doing it . Now let's talk reps , rest time , and exercises .

I ALWAYS try to maintain my reps between 8-12 . THat means that I try to reach FAILURE between 8-12 reps . I have READ several times that the best for hypertrophy is to keep your reps between 8-12 , less than 8 and you will be looking more into strenght gains than hypertrophy gains and more than 12 you would be looking more into muscle endurance gains instead of hypertrophy .

Rest time ,ok this one here is probably the one I need most atention .... I have heard that for the best hypertrophy gains you should REST no more than 1 minute between sets ..... problem is when I rest one minute only I have to use 20-30 % less weight than what I can use when I rest 2-4 minutes... How much are you guys resting between sets ? I think it is a trade somehow , rest LESS , use LESS weight , grow less ......rest more , use heavier weights , grow more ? I am not sure ....

Finally , exercizes types , number of exercizes and number of SETS

I have been thinking a LOT about this lately ....Ok , here we go .

We all know that we should change our routines often so our muscles don't adapt to it and stop growing . BUT HOW OFTEN ? Can you change it every week ? Or do you need to give it time for the muscles ADAPT and GROW, then when they stop growing , then you change .

And do you really need to change it ? Because if you just keep increasing the weight you use , this may be enough to keep your muscles guessing and keep them growing ? Or maybe just alter the order that you do your routine ?
Can you use the same routine forever as long as you keep incresing the weights ? or as long as you keep changing the routine order ? ( I mean instead of starting with flat bench then go for the incline bench , do the other way around .... )

Some guys here that know their shit told me that I should stick to one program for 2 months , just increasing weight , nothing more , than change it to a completly new one ......but they said I must give it time for the muscle to adapt because if I keep changing every week the muscle will not adapt and therefore , will not GROW ...

OK , now your thoughts

Victor

 

[georgie24]

damn vic by the time you finiinsh your cycle you are gonna be a world renouned fitness EXPERT. use that shit to your advantage. hence career in fitness or nutrition.
i dont have the answer as im still learning what works and dont work for my body type

 

[VictorBR]

damn vic by the time you finiinsh your cycle you are gonna be a world renouned fitness EXPERT. use that shit to your advantage. hence career in fitness or nutrition.
i dont have the answer as im still learning what works and dont work for my body type

>>> LOL , wasup bro , yeah I hope so ..... I was actually thinking in dropping the law school and start the fitness thing ...... I am still thinking about this ...

but anyway , how do you train ? just list your routine and how do you separate your muscles


Victor

 

[georgie24]

i usually experiment, however i just switched to 5x5 routine and its great. i will restart lifting as soon as im recovered from gyno surgery and a.r.t for shoulders. witch is about 8-10 weeks of no lifting. im not bummed at all because im gonna work on diet and areobic conditioning.

 

[VictorBR]

oh I see ....that is cool that you had gyno surgery .... I am sure you will be all right in no time ...

I always hear about this 5x5 routine .....

Can you explain in detail ?

Victor

 

[gregory]

Learning how to train takes time. It's not just doing set after set. You have to get to know your body and your biiig cycle should propably be a small one for you to learn yourself. It's good that you're honest with yourself, but training well is something that comes "ONLY" with experience. Just reading your post i can tell you're lost. When you invest the time and patience you will learn how your body likes it, the rest, reps etc... Everyone is slightly different in this regard, you need to learn your recovery abilities, for this there is no clear cut formulas, just guidelines but you have to put in the time.

Again, you have to invest the time, you just have to. You should be making great gains with your training now, almost to the point where you don't need to juice. But if you're not making those kinds of gains, you need to learn how. Otherwise cycling will just iron out all your deficiencies temporarily and you'll be back to square 1. Take this info and do with it what you wish.

 

[VictorBR]

Learning how to train takes time. It's not just doing set after set. You have to get to know your body and your biiig cycle should propably be a small one for you to learn yourself. It's good that you're honest with yourself, but training well is something that comes "ONLY" with experience. Just reading your post i can tell you're lost. When you invest the time and patience you will learn how your body likes it, the rest, reps etc... Everyone is slightly different in this regard, you need to learn your recovery abilities, for this there is no clear cut formulas, just guidelines but you have to put in the time.

Again, you have to invest the time, you just have to. You should be making great gains with your training now, almost to the point where you don't need to juice. But if you're not making those kinds of gains, you need to learn how. Otherwise cycling will just iron out all your deficiencies temporarily and you'll be back to square 1. Take this info and do with it what you wish.

WTF ?!?!?!!? I am not lost by any means , I am just trying to focus on the details , on what is the ideal rest time between sets , ideal frequency to change your routine and shit like that

But I have the basics pretty much covered and I know very well what works for my body , that is why I am 210 lbs with 17.5 inch guns and 10 % bodyfat and the last time I juiced was back in 2001 , a really small cycle . I have been training for 6 years , do you really think I should still be making incredible gains by now ? Have you ever heard of genectic limit ? OK maybe I am still not there but I think I am close , and have you ever heard of body type ? I am an endo-mesomorph , so for me to go on a 5.000 cals diet and try to pack on the mass without juice , I would also gain a LOT of fat . Juice allows me to GROW on low cals , and not gain one pound of FAT . I think I have already made great gains naturally . It would be stupid for me to try to pack on the mass without juice I would have to eat 5.000 cals and yeah I would grow , but I would also GAIN a TON of FAT . So , I would have to lose all the FAT later , what is the point ? With juice I can pack on the mass without packing on the FAT . I can go on a 2.800 cals diet and GAIN a shit LOAD of MASS .

It is funny when you say you should be making great gains without juice ... Are you ? I look way better than TONS of people who use juice regularly , that alone is enough for me to believe that I know how to diet and how to train .... when I said training is my weak part , it is not really WEAK , it is just that it is not on par with my diet and drugs knowledge .....

I still find it hard to understand your post .


Victor

 

[GoldenDelicious]

i dont think there is a "best" way...and also, what works at one point in time in your life may not work again (the human body is not static)

i have grown well on a body-for-life style regime (gained lbm, lost fat), and i have done the same on a 3-4 day, 2 bodyparts per day split using 6 or so reps, heavy and hard, with high protein, medium fat, and low carbs. natural the whole time.

i dont think you can ever answer your question and find the "best" way. just a good way. do what has worked before obviously, but if it has been totally inneffective, the low set, low rep, hard and heavy routines are probably the way to go

id stick with the law degree myself you get paid more

 

[VictorBR]

lol wasup golden bro

yeah I hear there is no BEST way .... but it is like this :

what I am doing is working for me , yeah but it could have been working a LIL BIT BETTER if I did it another way .... see ?

example : like I said I have been resting 2-4 minutes between sets , and everyone tells me that I should rest no more than 1 minute because that is optimal for hypertrophy .... but yeah 2-4 minutes WORKS for me but MAYBE 1 minute would work EVEN BETTER .

That is the point here

BTW - Law school is kinda boring .


Victor

 

[gregory]

lol wasup golden bro

yeah I hear there is no BEST way .... but it is like this :

what I am doing is working for me , yeah but it could have been working a LIL BIT BETTER if I did it another way .... see ?

example : like I said I have been resting 2-4 minutes between sets , and everyone tells me that I should rest no more than 1 minute because that is optimal for hypertrophy .... but yeah 2-4 minutes WORKS for me but MAYBE 1 minute would work EVEN BETTER .

That is the point here

BTW - Law school is kinda boring .


Victor

This is what i was trying to communicate to you in my post. You will find the answers you are looking for by taking your time and experimenting, time will tell. 2-4 minute breaks are not as good for muscle growth for myself, but were better at adding strenght but not much in terms of musle. To make my point all the clearer i have discovered that not all body parts on me grow from the same stimulus. My back likes heavy weights and it explodes with almost anything i do, my past 57 inch chest measurements were due to very wide lats. My biceps and chest benefit from medium to light weights with pre-exhaustion, they grow regardless of strenght levels. My back when at size is very strong, i do stiff legged deads with 405. My Bi's and Chest are weak by comparison, i don't usually bench with more then 275, and don't curl more then 100lbs on the straight bar, but they all grow. Took me years of learning myself to figure this out. I suggest you do the same, then juice will be almost not necessary.

BTW: I don't like throwing around stats on the internet as it's totally pointless and unverifiable, so why bother, i'm not after an ego trip with people i don't know or even will ever see. But my point is that if you experiment with your body like you would with the juice you'll get there at least twice as fast. My body type gets fat easily, and i was able over the course of 2 years to get up to 275 lbs on 500mg max gear cycles.

 

[VictorBR]

whatever ...your post still doesn' t make much sense imo .

I started a thread asking how the bros train and what they think of the way I train , I was looking to tweak my training a lil bit .

Then you come and bla bla bla , you gotta discover for yourself , don't use juice , you are lost ... all a bunch of bullspit .

STILL NO SENSE .


Victor

 

[gregory]

Good luck, bro.

 

[Slyder190]

I can tell, you that you MUST switch to different routines when you stall out on one particular routine. Switching to a strength routine isn't a bad idea, if it provides new stimulus for the body to grow. Try 5x5.

 

[sweed]

i started the 5x5 program about 3 weeks ago and since them i have put on 20 lbs. a lot of water and some fat tho, but I am liking it. 5x5 of compound movements and them 2 more exercizes for 2 set of 8-10 reps... getting your low reps for strength and higher reps for hypertrophy. I really like it and you can get your workout done pretty fast while not rushing! but if your on AS, i think you would need to use a high volume program since this 5x5 is more low volume.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I think gregory made a couple great posts for you and you basically shot him down because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. No one can say if resting 1 minute between sets will work better for you than resting your usual 2-4 minutes. you just have to try and find out. I'll use me for an example. Legs. Love singles and long rests between sets. Love high reps like 15-20 and medium heavy weight. Moderate reps 8-12 only ok. My arms develope much faster on moderate weight, high tension, hard contractions, moderate-heavy reps in the 6-8 range. Although my biceps like 6-8, my triceps like 10-15, and even then I'll sometimes do high rep sets of like 15 reps for biceps and lower rep sets for triceps. Also my arm day is one of my hardest training days because they liked to be worked hard and FAST. They like the burn and pump and blow up off that much better than purely heavy weight. My back likes a combo of rep ranges. 15-25 for traps, 3-10 for lats, 12-15 for erectors ad etc, for teh otehr bodyparts. As for rest days, I'm responding extremely well to a 4 day split each week, chest/back/rest/shoulders/arms/legs/rest-rest. I use what I would call moderate volume. I never have a set number of sets I do. I do as many as I feel is necessary on any given day, although they probably average out somewhat. I keep track of weights I use, but I'll put a weight down if it feels heavy that day even if last week I repped it out np. Always try to lift mroe weight, but that is secondary to feeling the muscle work and contract and giving it a first class workout. I'm not a powerlifter, I'm a bodybuilder/hobbyist whatever. Generally I try never to train to momentary failure, generally preferring to train a rep or 2 shy of failure. So I stop my set at either the last rep I can complete in good form, or if I did my desired reps and still had another rep left in me then I stop the set. I've got a boatload of variables as to how I train my body and I guarntee it would not work for anyone, but ME.

That is what you have to figure out. Who knows? Maybe if you trained legs with lower than 8 reps and more sets tehy would blow up. Maybe your arms would blow up off 15-20 reps. Who knows? That's what you have to figure out. 8-12 reps and training to failure are generic guidelines, not golden rules imo.

What I'm saying is you gotta learn for yourself what works best for you. Figure out what rest periods, rep ranges, and exercsies work best for you. You will know when you're training your body the way it wants to be trained. Gregory said it the same way and probably better.

 

[Tryn2]

I wish when poeple gave their opinions they would include there pics so I could see the VALUE of their advice. I really hate not being able to see who is talking. I have seen some pics of bros on hear and you know what I said...
" Damn he uses ove a gram of gear and gives all that advice and look at his fukn pic, what a joke " Then I knew not to listen. That has happened a lot....I think pics of yourself should be required in your profile....

 

[Tryn2]

I dont think this thread should have been moved. The training forum is biased and sucks !!!

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I wish when poeple gave their opinions they would include there pics so I could see the VALUE of their advice. I really hate not being able to see who is talking. I have seen some pics of bros on hear and you know what I said...
" Damn he uses ove a gram of gear and gives all that advice and look at his fukn pic, what a joke " Then I knew not to listen. That has happened a lot....I think pics of yourself should be required in your profile....

i wish those who were on a gram of test a week would only spend more time in the training forum..they may actually grow and look like theyre on gear

Any knucklehead can put a pin in their ass but its those that dont know how to lift that look as if they've never seen the inside of a gym..

when you say the training board is biased, could you explain?

 

[georgie24]

good points gregory. alot of KEY factors you pointed out.

vic- he is just syaing that you have to find what works for you. everybody is different.

 

[TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT]

OK , this is it .

I will have to admit that my knowledge in training is not that good . Actually it is bad , I have a pretty damn good knowledge when it comes to diet and AAS but when it comes to training ....it is not that good ....

So , I am going to start a biig cycle soon and I really want to have the training in check as I have my diet and rest ....

So , I will tell you guys how I have been training for the last years and you tell me what do you think and what I could change for better results . The details can make the difference when it comes to DIET and I am starting to believe that the details can ALSO make the difference when it comes to training ..

my goal is ALWAYS hypertrophy , I really don't care about strenght gains , I believe that when your muscles hypertrophy the strength gains will come on its own ...

So , I have always liked to TRAIN one MAJOR muscle group per day , this way I can hammer it pretty hard . So for the last 4-5 years this is the schedule that I follow . A LOT of people keep telling me to train 2 muscle groups each day , like chest and tris ( monday and thursday ) , backs and bis ( thusday and friday ) ..etc... because they say 6 days it too much for the muscle to rest ....But what they don't understand is that when I work backs , it is actually backs , shoulders and bis , when I work chest , it is actually chest , shoulders and tris , yeah it is not ISOLATED workouts for the shoulders and tris , BUT they are working out hard so ...... that is my point of view ...

But I just prefer to do it like this : ( what do you guys think ? )

Monday - backs ( upper and lower )
Thusday - Chest , abs
Wednesday - Legs ( quads , Hams , calves )
thursday - shoulders / traps
friday - Biceps , abs
saturday - triceps
sunday - OFF

So , this is how I have been doing it . Now let's talk reps , rest time , and exercises .

I ALWAYS try to maintain my reps between 8-12 . THat means that I try to reach FAILURE between 8-12 reps . I have READ several times that the best for hypertrophy is to keep your reps between 8-12 , less than 8 and you will be looking more into strenght gains than hypertrophy gains and more than 12 you would be looking more into muscle endurance gains instead of hypertrophy .

Rest time ,ok this one here is probably the one I need most atention .... I have heard that for the best hypertrophy gains you should REST no more than 1 minute between sets ..... problem is when I rest one minute only I have to use 20-30 % less weight than what I can use when I rest 2-4 minutes... How much are you guys resting between sets ? I think it is a trade somehow , rest LESS , use LESS weight , grow less ......rest more , use heavier weights , grow more ? I am not sure ....

Finally , exercizes types , number of exercizes and number of SETS

I have been thinking a LOT about this lately ....Ok , here we go .

We all know that we should change our routines often so our muscles don't adapt to it and stop growing . BUT HOW OFTEN ? Can you change it every week ? Or do you need to give it time for the muscles ADAPT and GROW, then when they stop growing , then you change .

And do you really need to change it ? Because if you just keep increasing the weight you use , this may be enough to keep your muscles guessing and keep them growing ? Or maybe just alter the order that you do your routine ?
Can you use the same routine forever as long as you keep incresing the weights ? or as long as you keep changing the routine order ? ( I mean instead of starting with flat bench then go for the incline bench , do the other way around .... )

Some guys here that know their shit told me that I should stick to one program for 2 months , just increasing weight , nothing more , than change it to a completly new one ......but they said I must give it time for the muscle to adapt because if I keep changing every week the muscle will not adapt and therefore , will not GROW ...

OK , now your thoughts

Victor

GOOD STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[d3track]

victor, here's a little insight as to what i do, i think we train somwhat similarly
(and tryn2, i have a couple pics in galery, bout 6months old, i'm natty, nuthin special but i have made improvments)

split
day1- hams/bis
day2- abs/quads
day3- calves/pecs
day4- back/traps
day5- shoulders/tris
off
off

i usually do 4-5 exercises, reps range from 12 to 4
(the low reps are usually more power movemnts: deads/squats/push press)
i like using a 1-2 min break, 2 on heavy movemnts, 1 on other movements

i hope this helps, it sounded like you were looking for examples of what others are doing