best for hair loss?

[krishna]

http://www..com/forum/printthread.php?t=85317

Read Aussie Thunder's post. Most studies you will find base their results on "observable side effects" meaning no actual blood test, etc., are done. People who actually have gotten tests done all say the same thing.

 

[thebrakes]

That study doesn't report on doing any testing on androgen levels. Just because there were no observable side effects doesn't mean it wasn't absorbed systemically. My friend had no observable side effects, he had no idea until he got his test levels checked. Are you going to be putting the lotion on your head. In most cases, the spiro used for hair treatment is not a lotion, it's a liquid. This study was done on lotion. Look, you guys use it if you want. GOOD LUCK! I wouldn't tell you not to unless I truely believed it was bad news. What do I have to gain by doing that?

did you even read what he said???

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Lack of endocrine systemic side effects after topical application of spironolactone in man.

In six healthy male volunteers, the percutaneous absorption of spironolactone was compared with placebo in a double-blind crossover study. The subjects were randomly given either a cream containing 5% spironolactone or placebo to be applied in a randomized sequential way to a well defined skin area equivalent to 55% of body area. During the 72 h following the application of the ointment, blood levels of canrenone, the major metabolite of spironolactone, have been determined. In order to estimate the systemic antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone, plasma levels of 17-alpha-Hydroxy progesterone (17 alpha-OH-P), Testosterone (pT) and non-conjugated 3 alpha-Androstanediol (3 alpha-diol, metabolite of the active androgen 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone or DHT) as well as salivary Testosterone (sT) which relate to the free and active plasma testosterone fraction have also been measured. Urinary levels of canrenone have been determined 48 hours after cream application. No changes in any levels of these hormones have been detected and plasma canrenone levels were undetectable during the 72 hours of topical treatment. Topically administered, spironolactone appears to have only a local skin impregnation.

PMID: 3411088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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also - dont take saw palmetto with deca. sawP works by inhibiting 5AR, much like the way finasteride and dutasteride work. taking with deca is an obvious no-no.

the topical spiro debate has been waged for some time. there is clinical evidence that it does not resorb systemically, but there is the ONE guy who got bloodwork (and his case is very well controlled - very few variables)...i myself am convinced it comes down to the carrier. the cream likely has much less penetration than the liquid, so less systemic sides. however, the cream from WSHCP is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to rub into your hair - it's like chalky paste. you have to use oil or something very wet, mix em together and get a workable topical. if you were to add alcohol to it, you are bound to get some epidermal penetration.

or, get fluridil. i am currently on 875mg test/750mg EQ/40mg Superdrol/6mg M-TRN and having no problems a few weeks in while using it 2x/day (i am also on .5mg ED dutasteride for the test)...just dont get it wet - it is made inactive by H2O.

krishna - did your friend use the cream or the clear? didnt he use dr. lee's stuff?

 

[krishna]

did you even read what he said???

------
Lack of endocrine systemic side effects after topical application of spironolactone in man.

In six healthy male volunteers, the percutaneous absorption of spironolactone was compared with placebo in a double-blind crossover study. The subjects were randomly given either a cream containing 5% spironolactone or placebo to be applied in a randomized sequential way to a well defined skin area equivalent to 55% of body area. During the 72 h following the application of the ointment, blood levels of canrenone, the major metabolite of spironolactone, have been determined. In order to estimate the systemic antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone, plasma levels of 17-alpha-Hydroxy progesterone (17 alpha-OH-P), Testosterone (pT) and non-conjugated 3 alpha-Androstanediol (3 alpha-diol, metabolite of the active androgen 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone or DHT) as well as salivary Testosterone (sT) which relate to the free and active plasma testosterone fraction have also been measured. Urinary levels of canrenone have been determined 48 hours after cream application. No changes in any levels of these hormones have been detected and plasma canrenone levels were undetectable during the 72 hours of topical treatment. Topically administered, spironolactone appears to have only a local skin impregnation.

PMID: 3411088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
-----

also - dont take saw palmetto with deca. sawP works by inhibiting 5AR, much like the way finasteride and dutasteride work. taking with deca is an obvious no-no.

the topical spiro debate has been waged for some time. there is clinical evidence that it does not resorb systemically, but there is the ONE guy who got bloodwork (and his case is very well controlled - very few variables)...i myself am convinced it comes down to the carrier. the cream likely has much less penetration than the liquid, so less systemic sides. however, the cream from WSHCP is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to rub into your hair - it's like chalky paste. you have to use oil or something very wet, mix em together and get a workable topical. if you were to add alcohol to it, you are bound to get some epidermal penetration.

or, get fluridil. i am currently on 875mg test/750mg EQ/40mg Superdrol/6mg M-TRN and having no problems a few weeks in while using it 2x/day (i am also on .5mg ED dutasteride for the test)...just dont get it wet - it is made inactive by H2O.

krishna - did your friend use the cream or the clear? didnt he use dr. lee's stuff?

Spiro acts by binding to and blocking the receptor. It would take time for test levels to drop off. And the reason it could hinder gains quickly is because even though a person's test levels haven't dropped off yet, spiro is blocking the receptor. Why didn't they test blood levels for spiro metabolites?

Saw Palmetto has a very weak 5-ar inhibition. A lot of studies suggest that it actually mediates androgens at the receptors, as opposed to inhibiting test conversion. I've taken it with deca a couple times and never had a problem.

 

[krishna]

did you even read what he said???

------
Lack of endocrine systemic side effects after topical application of spironolactone in man.

In six healthy male volunteers, the percutaneous absorption of spironolactone was compared with placebo in a double-blind crossover study. The subjects were randomly given either a cream containing 5% spironolactone or placebo to be applied in a randomized sequential way to a well defined skin area equivalent to 55% of body area. During the 72 h following the application of the ointment, blood levels of canrenone, the major metabolite of spironolactone, have been determined. In order to estimate the systemic antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone, plasma levels of 17-alpha-Hydroxy progesterone (17 alpha-OH-P), Testosterone (pT) and non-conjugated 3 alpha-Androstanediol (3 alpha-diol, metabolite of the active androgen 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone or DHT) as well as salivary Testosterone (sT) which relate to the free and active plasma testosterone fraction have also been measured. Urinary levels of canrenone have been determined 48 hours after cream application. No changes in any levels of these hormones have been detected and plasma canrenone levels were undetectable during the 72 hours of topical treatment. Topically administered, spironolactone appears to have only a local skin impregnation.

PMID: 3411088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
-----

also - dont take saw palmetto with deca. sawP works by inhibiting 5AR, much like the way finasteride and dutasteride work. taking with deca is an obvious no-no.

the topical spiro debate has been waged for some time. there is clinical evidence that it does not resorb systemically, but there is the ONE guy who got bloodwork (and his case is very well controlled - very few variables)...i myself am convinced it comes down to the carrier. the cream likely has much less penetration than the liquid, so less systemic sides. however, the cream from WSHCP is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to rub into your hair - it's like chalky paste. you have to use oil or something very wet, mix em together and get a workable topical. if you were to add alcohol to it, you are bound to get some epidermal penetration.

or, get fluridil. i am currently on 875mg test/750mg EQ/40mg Superdrol/6mg M-TRN and having no problems a few weeks in while using it 2x/day (i am also on .5mg ED dutasteride for the test)...just dont get it wet - it is made inactive by H2O.

krishna - did your friend use the cream or the clear? didnt he use dr. lee's stuff?

Sorry skipped over that part. Ya, we both used liquid and I'm sure it had alcohol in it (smelled like it anyway). Ok, so we both agree that the liquid is probably more dangerous than the cream. Rubbing cream in your hair seems like a pain in the ass.