Bench Press Not Going Up

[biogeared]

Ive been stuck for a few weeks now at 255x 4 reps. (4 weeks to be exact)

What can I do improve this? I don't arch (I bodybuild, not powerlift, so I want to make it harder on my chest, not easier). I have always been weak in the chest.

Heres what a typical workout looks like.

Flat BB Bench 4 sets -- 12, 10, 7, 4
Incline DB 3 sets -- 8, 8, 8
Incine Flye 2 sets -- 10, 8

And I usually do an additional 2 sets of pec dec, or cable crossovers or maybe a machine.

Who has tips for improving my bench? Green for help.

Oh yah, and here is my split.

Day 1 Chest
Day 2 Back
Day 3 Legs
Day 4 Shoulders, Traps
Day 5 Arms
Day 6 Rest
Day 7 Rest

 

[slobberknocker]

Where are you failing in the bench? Set boards at that height and do board presses. Speed bench is also helping mine. Aside from that, hit your tris, lats, and delts hard, and try to train them in the same plane as the bench.

 

[thebrute]

have you tried going without the bench for a while and doin workin the inclines and declines hard? your body could be used to those sets and reps so you have to change it up to keep the muscle guessing. do some high reps(185 or 205 for sets of 10-15) for a while or keep the same rep scheme you have for your bench and do inclines for two weeks and then declines for two weeks. see how that works. i hope this helps you brotha. tb

 

[Liftbig]

well thats pretty vague, but im gonna say you at least need more tricep work.

 

[biogeared]

Im failing about 1/3 from the bottom. Maybe 3-4 inches off my chest.

 

[biogeared]

I don't think I need much more tricep work (although it couldn't hurt) because I don't have much problem with the lockout.

Although I don't lock out all my presses. Only the last few ones when I pause at the top.

 

[guldukat]

Ive been stuck for a few weeks now at 255x 4 reps. (4 weeks to be exact)

What can I do improve this? I don't arch (I bodybuild, not powerlift, so I want to make it harder on my chest, not easier). I have always been weak in the chest.

Heres what a typical workout looks like.

Flat BB Bench 4 sets -- 12, 10, 7, 4

How hard are those 4 sets? Have you progressed on the higher reps?

 

[mekannik]

Wait a second - you say you're a bodybuilder, but you're worried about the weight you're putting up?? That's being a bit contradictory. I understand that more weight means more muscle(s) being stimulated for growth - but shouldn't you be more concerned with the quality of the reps rather than the weight?

Have you tried a change in cadence?
How many weeks prior to hitting this stagnation point have you been on this program?
What part of your chest are you trying to develop?
What part need development?

Also - 4 reps isn't really much for mass. That rep range is more power - so again I question what you are trying to achieve.

Take a step back, analyze, and be honest with what you are doing and trying to achieve. To reach the desired goal you should at least be following a correct path.

 

[louden_swain]

Like others have said. . weak point training.

Work on the lats and delts.

 

[d3track]

have you tried going without the bench for a while and doin workin the inclines and declines hard? your body could be used to those sets and reps so you have to change it up to keep the muscle guessing. do some high reps(185 or 205 for sets of 10-15) for a while or keep the same rep scheme you have for your bench and do inclines for two weeks and then declines for two weeks. see how that works. i hope this helps you brotha. tb

exactly

this is what i did when i was stuck at 245 doing 1x8
after 4weeks i hit 275 1x10

now i don't even do much flat barbell, inclines have given me much better results, i have seen the light!

 

[Devastation]

Wait a second - you say you're a bodybuilder, but you're worried about the weight you're putting up?? That's being a bit contradictory. I understand that more weight means more muscle(s) being stimulated for growth - but shouldn't you be more concerned with the quality of the reps rather than the weight?


Take a step back, analyze, and be honest with what you are doing and trying to achieve. To reach the desired goal you should at least be following a correct path.

i agree. if you're a bb, what the fuck do you care how much you bench. if you can't satisfy your ego with what you bench now, switch to pl style bench press to bench more. benching is a poor way to develop your chest muscles anyway - meaning there are other exercises better suited to developing your chest. benching bb style is only asking for problems imo

 

[Debaser]

I must be the only one that thinks weak point training is not always the answer. Let's look at some facts:

1. He's been stuck at this weight for a long time. It's very possible he's burned out. Has he EVER cycled his intensity or is he just trying to go in a straight line upward forever?

2. 4 reps is really heavy. If he's FAILING here, how is he supposed to add another 5 lbs next session? It may as well be 50 lbs.

3. He's doing too much unneccessary volume and exercises. He's doing 9 sets for chest which is wholly unnecessary, and flyes which are pointless.

4. Look at his split!

Day 1 Chest
Day 2 Back
Day 3 Legs
Day 4 Shoulders, Traps
Day 5 Arms
Day 6 Rest
Day 7 Rest

FIVE FULL DAYS OF VOLUME IN A ROW. His routine needs serious evaluation, or he can't expect to progress on any of his exercises with any consistancy. I think he should forget about working a specific weak point (and thus adding even MORE volume) and worrying about doing these:

-Taking a week off.
-DRASTICALLY reevaluating his routine.
-Starting off light and working up to a new max.

 

[slobberknocker]

-Taking a week off.
-DRASTICALLY reevaluating his routine.
-Starting off light and working up to a new max.

I think he could benefit from weak point training, but I think those are some good suggestions too.

 

[guldukat]

I must be the only one that thinks weak point training is not always the answer. Let's look at some facts:

Heh heh.

I was actually going in that direction, too. That's why I asked how hard those 4 bench sets were.

Anyway, I agree with you 100%. Weak point training can't hurt at a certain point, to be sure, but all other things (volume, frequency, intensity) should first be in order. An overtrained dude that gets stronger off the chest is still overtrained, after all.

 

[Devastation]

I must be the only one that thinks weak point training is not always the answer. Let's look at some facts:

2. 4 reps is really heavy. If he's FAILING here, how is he supposed to add another 5 lbs next session? It may as well be 50 lbs.

3. He's doing too much unneccessary volume and exercises. He's doing 9 sets for chest which is wholly unnecessary, and flyes which are pointless.

4. Look at his split!

Day 1 Chest
Day 2 Back
Day 3 Legs
Day 4 Shoulders, Traps
Day 5 Arms
Day 6 Rest
Day 7 Rest

FIVE FULL DAYS OF VOLUME IN A ROW. His routine needs serious evaluation, or he can't expect to progress on any of his exercises with any consistancy. I think he should forget about working a specific weak point (and thus adding even MORE volume) and worrying about doing these:

-Taking a week off.
-DRASTICALLY reevaluating his routine.
-Starting off light and working up to a new max.

1. 4 reps is not heavy. i doubt this is within 90% of his 1 rep max

2. 9 sets is not unneccesary volume. i have been doing 9-11 sets of bench movements for 4 months straight and have had non stop gains. i do occasionally have a planned light day or take a day off if needed

3. if i was a bodybuilder i would more than likely include flyes into my routine

4. his split is fine if he is not doing deadlifts and then squats the day after. if he is he will be comprimising his squat workouts. when i was bodybuilding i had great gains on a somewhat similar program, drug-free

5. i still don't understand why everyone is giving him advice on how to progress in weight on his lifts when he is a bodybuilder. he is lacking in nutrition and rest if he is not progressing physically. intensity may also be lacking in his workouts. if he wants to lift more he should switch to powerlifting. even if i still was a bodybuilder, knowing what i know now, i would focus my workouts on powerlifting as this has given me the greatest base to work with that i have ever acheived

 

[Debaser]

1. 4 reps is not heavy. i doubt this is within 90% of his 1 rep max

That's relative. I consider anything under 6 reps to be "heavy" training. It's MUCH easier to add a rep on your next session if you did 12 reps before than to do 5 reps with what you previously failed at with 4.

2. 9 sets is not unneccesary volume. i have been doing 9-11 sets of bench movements for 4 months straight and have had non stop gains. i do occasionally have a planned light day or take a day off if needed

A matter of opinion. I and several others have also made non stop gains doing 1-2 sets.

3. if i was a bodybuilder i would more than likely include flyes into my routine
Why? Flyes put unneccessary stress on your shoulders, and absolutely pale in comparison to pressing movements for chest development. I will reiterate and will stand firm that there is never a reason to include flyes in your workout, EVER. If someone can present to me a case where you SHOULD do them, I'm all ears.

4. his split is fine if he is not doing deadlifts and then squats the day after. if he is he will be comprimising his squat workouts. when i was bodybuilding i had great gains on a somewhat similar program, drug-free
I still think most here would agree that 5 straight days of training, whether he's doing squats or deadlifts or not, is ludicrous. The CNS drain would be unbelievable.

5. i still don't understand why everyone is giving him advice on how to progress in weight on his lifts when he is a bodybuilder. he is lacking in nutrition and rest if he is not progressing physically. intensity may also be lacking in his workouts. if he wants to lift more he should switch to powerlifting. even if i still was a bodybuilder, knowing what i know now, i would focus my workouts on powerlifting as this has given me the greatest base to work with that i have ever acheived
How do you think you gain muscle? You don't have to be a powerlifter to be interested in strength, because strength gains are what build muscle. He might not be concerned with his 1 rep max, but he should be damn well concerned if his 5 rep bench is not moving up in weight, because that means that he won't be moving up in weight. Bodybuilders need to focus on progressive load--many are confused as to what actually generates muscular weight.

 

[guldukat]

1. 4 reps is not heavy. i doubt this is within 90% of his 1 rep max

For bodybuilding it could be considered a hair low, but I don't have any big problem with low reps The only reason I'd change that would be to conserve energy for something else.

2. 9 sets is not unneccesary volume. i have been doing 9-11 sets of bench movements for 4 months straight and have had non stop gains. i do occasionally have a planned light day or take a day off if needed

Do you do 4 sets of bench presses to failure every time you train the movement? One at 12 reps, then three more at 10-8-4? Are your genetics comparable to Biogeared, and are your respective test levels similar? (I don't remember if you're natty as of late or not.)

Biogeared is actually doing more toward 11 sets for chest. That's an awful lot to do week in and week out...some people easily surpass that level of work with other methods, sure...but they're not going to failure all the time, and aren't doing lots of other high-rep or isolation movements, all of which eat away at recovery like mad.

I'm not trying to bust your nut here, but it's important to keep this in the proper context. An 11 set per bodypart bodybuilding routine, especially one that's 5 on, 2 off, is very hard for most naturals to handle...

...if, of course, they want to progress. Biogeared does, but he's been stuck for awhile. Something needs to change, and making him stronger off the chest would help, but why stop there? That's like only cutting off a toe when an entire leg is gangrenous.

3. if i was a bodybuilder i would more than likely include flyes into my routine

I used to, and don't anymore. They don't do anything that the presses can't, and they typically involve much more limited poundages.

That's a catch-22. The CNS doesn't adapt to the most isolated moves as well, so progressive overload is very difficult to achieve. Moreover, the weights are already so light that even 2.5 lbs. increases represent a BIG jump percentage-wise.

I think isolation stuff is energy better spent on big, basic exercises. They're a more efficient use of the body's resources, which are certainly limited. And they're more effective, too: a guy who increases his bench press by 50%--say, from 250 to 375--will grow a LOT more pec mass than a dude who moves his DB fly from a pair of 50's to 75's.

4. his split is fine if he is not doing deadlifts and then squats the day after. if he is he will be comprimising his squat workouts. when i was bodybuilding i had great gains on a somewhat similar program, drug-free

I understand that. Many people have. Arnold certainly had great gains on his 6 on, 1 off, 2-a-day regimen...volume can work, it's just rarely close to ideal for bodybuilding.

The crux of this is Biogeared is not experiencing great gains at the moment. Something is obviously wrong; and given the success others and myself have had with types of low-volume training (Doggcrapping), I think volume is a very likely culprit here.

I've seen it too many times to dismiss it out of hand.

5. i still don't understand why everyone is giving him advice on how to progress in weight on his lifts when he is a bodybuilder. he is lacking in nutrition and rest if he is not progressing physically. intensity may also be lacking in his workouts. if he wants to lift more he should switch to powerlifting. even if i still was a bodybuilder, knowing what i know now, i would focus my workouts on powerlifting as this has given me the greatest base to work with that i have ever acheived

?

You're contradicting yourself bro. First, you say you don't know why a bodybuilder should up his poundage, then you say if you were still bodybuilding, you'd be powerlifting.

A bodybuilder should always strive for progressively greater poundages. That precedes nutrition IMO...you can have the best diet in the world, but if you aren't moving more weight week after week, what's the incentive to grow?

 

[Devastation]

That's relative. I consider anything under 6 reps to be "heavy" training. It's MUCH easier to add a rep on your next session if you did 12 reps before than to do 5 reps with what you previously failed at with 4.

A matter of opinion. I and several others have also made non stop gains doing 1-2 sets.

Why? Flyes put unneccessary stress on your shoulders, and absolutely pale in comparison to pressing movements for chest development. I will reiterate and will stand firm that there is never a reason to include flyes in your workout, EVER. If someone can present to me a case where you SHOULD do them, I'm all ears.

I still think most here would agree that 5 straight days of training, whether he's doing squats or deadlifts or not, is ludicrous. The CNS drain would be unbelievable.

How do you think you gain muscle? You don't have to be a powerlifter to be interested in strength, because strength gains are what build muscle. He might not be concerned with his 1 rep max, but he should be damn well concerned if his 5 rep bench is not moving up in weight, because that means that he won't be moving up in weight. Bodybuilders need to focus on progressive load--many are confused as to what actually generates muscular weight.

1. heavy is relative to the person in question.
2. non stop gains with 1-2 sets. if this includes warmup i call bullshit. my 9-11 sets included warmup as does his
3. the correct way to bench is the powerlifting style. bodybuilding style benching and heavy weights do not mix. you will injure yourself, probably severely, in time. and the correct powerlifting style uses little chest. it is mostly lats, delts, and triceps. this is a poor movement to build your chest
4. your cns adapts to workloads. thinking it doesn't is ludacris
5. strength gains are only part of what builds muscle. nutrition and rest are by far more important imo. progressive overload works fine to a point and then it stops. you must learn how to constantly improve

 

[Debaser]

1. heavy is relative to the person in question.
2. non stop gains with 1-2 sets. if this includes warmup i call bullshit. my 9-11 sets included warmup as does his
3. the correct way to bench is the powerlifting style. bodybuilding style benching and heavy weights do not mix. you will injure yourself, probably severely, in time. and the correct powerlifting style uses little chest. it is mostly lats, delts, and triceps. this is a poor movement to build your chest
4. your cns adapts to workloads. thinking it doesn't is ludacris
5. strength gains are only part of what builds muscle. nutrition and rest are by far more important imo. progressive overload works fine to a point and then it stops. you must learn how to constantly improve

1. I think you know what I mean when I say heavy. I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing.
2. Who said I included warmups? You don't know that his includes warmups either; what if each of those sets is to failure or close to it?
3. You can bench heavy, and certainly more than 250 lbs using a bodybuilding style bench. Most guys that injure themselves are using bad form. Also, who said that this is the only way to build the chest other than flyes? I do dips myself, and largely ignore the bench.
4. Sometimes too much is too much. If I worked out 4 times a day to failure, day in day out, my CNS isn't going to adapt to that; I'd simply overtrain.
5. Well, of course diet and rest are important, who's arguing otherwise? We're talking about training. They're both vital to your success. If I bench 100 lbs now, eat 7000 calories a day, and make no effort to increase my bench at all I would merely get fat, not muscular. The only time progressive overload would "stop" is when you hit your genetic limit. Most of the time it stops because people don't realize they need to cycle their intensity.

 

[Devastation]

For bodybuilding it could be considered a hair low, but I don't have any big problem with low reps The only reason I'd change that would be to conserve energy for something else.

do you do 4 sets of bench presses to failure every time you train the movement? One at 12 reps, then three more at 10-8-4? Are your genetics comparable to Biogeared, and are your respective test levels similar? (I don't remember if you're natty as of late or not.)

Biogeared is actually doing more toward 11 sets for chest. That's an awful lot to do week in and week out...some people easily surpass that level of work with other methods, sure...but they're not going to failure all the time, and aren't doing lots of other high-rep or isolation movements, all of which eat away at recovery like mad.

I'm not trying to bust your nut here, but it's important to keep this in the proper context. An 11 set per bodypart bodybuilding routine, especially one that's 5 on, 2 off, is very hard for most naturals to handle...

...if, of course, they want to progress. Biogeared does, but he's been stuck for awhile. Something needs to change, and making him stronger off the chest would help, but why stop there? That's like only cutting off a toe when an entire leg is gangrenous.



I used to, and don't anymore. They don't do anything that the presses can't, and they typically involve much more limited poundages.

That's a catch-22. The CNS doesn't adapt to the most isolated moves as well, so progressive overload is very difficult to achieve. Moreover, the weights are already so light that even 2.5 lbs. increases represent a BIG jump percentage-wise.

I think isolation stuff is energy better spent on big, basic exercises. They're a more efficient use of the body's resources, which are certainly limited. And they're more effective, too: a guy who increases his bench press by 50%--say, from 250 to 375--will grow a LOT more pec mass than a dude who moves his DB fly from a pair of 50's to 75's.



I understand that. Many people have. Arnold certainly had great gains on his 6 on, 1 off, 2-a-day regimen...volume can work, it's just rarely close to ideal for bodybuilding.

The crux of this is Biogeared is not experiencing great gains at the moment. Something is obviously wrong; and given the success others and myself have had with types of low-volume training (Doggcrapping), I think volume is a very likely culprit here.

I've seen it too many times to dismiss it out of hand.



?

You're contradicting yourself bro. First, you say you don't know why a bodybuilder should up his poundage, then you say if you were still bodybuilding, you'd be powerlifting.

A bodybuilder should always strive for progressively greater poundages. That precedes nutrition IMO...you can have the best diet in the world, but if you aren't moving more weight week after week, what's the incentive to grow?

you have valid points as does debaser.

volume should increase in time. you say 9-11 sets is alot in a week? i do 9-11 sets a workout 2x a week. low volume is an easy way out imo. i am thicker than i have ever been using high volume low reps above 90% of my max on all of my main lifts. i still train shoulders and traps, and back to a degree, using bodybuilding style reps and sets. what i am saying is this has worked for me and many others. it would work for him

understand that progressive overload is an impossible thing. westside mixes things up as far as main movements are concerned and throw in dynamic days. i agree with some of it and not with others. they also stress to train your weak points which if you want a bigger bench the right way, you can achieve it. it is possible. progessive overload asks you to do the same exercise over and over and continiously up the weight. this just doesn't happen for too numerous reasons i am not going to waste my time explaining

when i advocate flyes it would be for bodybuilding purposes only. i do not do them nor am i likely ever to again. i may be way out in left field here, but flyes directly recruit more muscle in the chest then presses due to the biometrics(?), i don't know the proper term, of the purpose of the chest. of course you will not use as much weight, but you are directly effecting the chest to a greater degree, which in turn should increase the size of your chest. which i assume he wants since he is a bodybuilder

when you are on stage at a bodybuilding contest, they don't bring out a bench and a power rack and test everyone's max's. at least not in the couple i competed in they didn't

diet and rest are by far more important than total weight moved, whether you are bb or pl. accept this and you will break all of your current pr's

 

[BlkWS6]

Whats with all this "oh you are a bodybuilder why do you give a fuck about strength stuff" That is such a joke. I consider myself a "bodybuilder" and I also get GREAT satisfaction from getting stronger. What is so inherently wrong with that? I just think it is annoying sometimes how you are either this or that. And if you are 'x' you sure as hell better train just like an 'x' person should be training.

 

[Devastation]

1. I think you know what I mean when I say heavy. I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing.
2. Who said I included warmups? You don't know that his includes warmups either; what if each of those sets is to failure or close to it?
3. You can bench heavy, and certainly more than 250 lbs using a bodybuilding style bench. Most guys that injure themselves are using bad form. Also, who said that this is the only way to build the chest other than flyes? I do dips myself, and largely ignore the bench.
4. Sometimes too much is too much. If I worked out 4 times a day to failure, day in day out, my CNS isn't going to adapt to that; I'd simply overtrain.
5. Well, of course diet and rest are important, who's arguing otherwise? We're talking about training. They're both vital to your success. If I bench 100 lbs now, eat 7000 calories a day, and make no effort to increase my bench at all I would merely get fat, not muscular. The only time progressive overload would "stop" is when you hit your genetic limit. Most of the time it stops because people don't realize they need to cycle their intensity.

1. i'm not, trust me. you have valid points but they are a bit mistrewn by your logic behind them

2. if all of his sets are close to failure, this alone would be most of his problem

3. i've seen a person tear a pec with 225 and numerous pull something with less all because of bad form i.e. bb style bench. and you brought up flyes were bad. i only said i would do them and i have left my reasoning why

4. where did this come from?

5. what you are saying is irrelevant and i would disagree with you on a different note. if a person currently benches 100 lbs, and gains 50 lbs of fat, that person will bench more than 100 lbs having never worked out since his last max. the reason is leverage, added water weight, and overall body composition change. i'm not saying if someone benched 300 and did the same that this would happen, but with a 100 lb bencher i would wager it will happen. his musclulature will not have changed but his strength will have increased. so how do you equate mucsle must equal strength and vice versa? i am not arguing a person can be stronger at a lower bodyweight and bodyfat, but this takes overall conditioning of the body and cns. something that can be done

and cycling intensity goes against the basic premise of progressive overload since you are constantly increasing the weight moved. po in it's purist form does not work for long

 

[slobberknocker]

Whats with all this "oh you are a bodybuilder why do you give a fuck about strength stuff" That is such a joke. I consider myself a "bodybuilder" and I also get GREAT satisfaction from getting stronger. What is so inherently wrong with that? I just think it is annoying sometimes how you are either this or that. And if you are 'x' you sure as hell better train just like an 'x' person should be training.

I think it's great to be a bodybuilder and to also care about strength, but I think that if your goal is to step onto stage and have judges determine you to have the best lbm and proportions, that you would be wasting time and effort trying to figure out things like "where is my bench sticking point" etc.

 

[Devastation]

Whats with all this "oh you are a bodybuilder why do you give a fuck about strength stuff" That is such a joke. I consider myself a "bodybuilder" and I also get GREAT satisfaction from getting stronger. What is so inherently wrong with that? I just think it is annoying sometimes how you are either this or that. And if you are 'x' you sure as hell better train just like an 'x' person should be training.

blkws6, no disrespect bor, but considering yourself a "bodybuilder" and being one are two different things. a bb competes. a bodybuilding gymrat who likes to up his bench does not

if you have or still compete, i take nothing away from you and congratulate, as i don't take anything away from you if you have never competed. but being a bb and a gymrat are not the same

boigeared says he bodybuilds right off the bat




ps everyone here has given good advice and shared quality thoughts. i am not an asshole, just decided to be arguementative today and contribute to the training board. it needs more heated debates, doesn't it?

 

[biogeared]

Holy flame fest batman. Some good things came out it though -- its interesting to here different sides of the same issue.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I don't feel that volume is the culprit here though -- I only push the last set of each exercise to failure.

Also, I DO NOT spend more than 40-45 minutes in the gym per day -- I don't think my CNS is by anymeans rundown.

I don't feel overtrained, or lethargic, but rather energitic. All my other lifts have gone up in the last month, so I doubt overtraining is at work.

As for bench press not being a good exercise for chest growth -- bolderdash -- sure incline db, and flat db presses build it more, but flat BB bench stimulates a lot more than just chest -- IMO no ones program should be without flat bb bench.

I think for now Ill work on my weak point give board presses a try. If I still am stuck, I will try cutting the volume.

 

[BlkWS6]

I think it's great to be a bodybuilder and to also care about strength, but I think that if your goal is to step onto stage and have judges determine you to have the best lbm and proportions, that you would be wasting time and effort trying to figure out things like "where is my bench sticking point" etc.

That makes sense man, I can live with that.

blkws6, no disrespect bor, but considering yourself a "bodybuilder" and being one are two different things. a bb competes. a bodybuilding gymrat who likes to up his bench does not

if you have or still compete, i take nothing away from you and congratulate, as i don't take anything away from you if you have never competed. but being a bb and a gymrat are not the same

Yeah I suppose that is why I put bodybuilder in quotations man. I don't know I just consider bodybuilding an approach to training/lifestyle (building one's body) as opposed to just a means to an end (winning a competition). I guess I just loosely classify myself as "one" because I associate the most with it. In the end I totally understand what you are saying, and I suppose I just took it personally because perhaps you and I share a different view of what a bodybuilder is. I need to find another label for what I do I suppose weight lifter, albeit boring and generic will suffice.