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Be careful who you liberate

Fast Twitch Fiber

New member
Whenever I hear people trying to justify this attack against Iraq I frequently hear the phrase "Don't you remember 9/11?" Well, yes I remember 9/11 quite well. I'm convinced Saddam had nothing to do with it but that's beside the point. I also remember seeing news clips from Arab nations showing people celebrating in the streets. I wonder how many of these recently "liberated" Iraqis were dancing in the streets on 9/11? My guess is that there were many.

I'm already hearing talks of lifting economic sanctions against Iraq. That's going to free them to re-arm themselves unchecked. Once these sanctions are gone what's going to stop a nation like Pakistan from selling them nukes? At least with the sanctions in place under Saddam we could keep a careful watch on them.

While they may be shouting "Long live Bush" now, these are Islamic fundamentalists that will not hesitate to stab us in the back. They may hate Saddam, but they hate those of us in America even more.
 
I think you've got a interestin point there.

The best thing to do would be to put some sort of pasification drug in their water supply
 
ajtomasi said:
I think you've got a interestin point there.

The best thing to do would be to put some sort of pasification drug in their water supply

A little xanax goes a long way. I think that is a great idea. Or better yet, put birth control in the drinking water of the entire middle east. No more little terrorrists, and the guys would grow tits. We could then laugh at the guys and call them women, and put burkas on them and beat them.
 
Bump for a reply from some war/Bush supporters. It's funny how they don't reply to this but if I said this war was about oil they'd be all over it.....
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:
Bump for a reply from some war/Bush supporters. It's funny how they don't reply to this but if I said this war was about oil they'd be all over it.....

I am a bush\war supporter. I still think these people will fuck us the first chance they get. They are ungrateful, self righteous, arrogant racist fucks. IT really isnt the peoples faults though. It is the governments. If you grew up in a place where everyone around you and everything around you was blamed on these "americans", and you had nothing pointing elsewhere (internally, where the problem really is in their culture), then you would hate americans too.
 
JohnyJuice said:


I am a bush\war supporter. I still think these people will fuck us the first chance they get. They are ungrateful, self righteous, arrogant racist fucks. IT really isnt the peoples faults though. It is the governments. If you grew up in a place where everyone around you and everything around you was blamed on these "americans", and you had nothing pointing elsewhere (internally, where the problem really is in their culture), then you would hate americans too.

You're right. But the main reason for this Iraqi Freedom stuff was really more in the U.S. best interests anyway. Liberating the Iraqis, at least the ones who wanted, was just a side benefit.
 
April 12, 2003
Baghdad Seethes With Anger Toward U.S.
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
(http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/int...dads-Anger.html?pagewanted=print&position=top)


Filed at 9:54 p.m. ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- At first they cheered, smiled, offered hearty thumbs-ups to the U.S. soldiers newly in their midst. But across Iraq's lawless capital, that sentiment is evaporating as quickly as Saddam Hussein's government melted away.

Baghdad was bursting with anti-American feeling Saturday as residents saw their city being stripped by its own citizens while U.S. forces stood by, rarely intervening and in some cases even motioning treasure-laden men through checkpoints.

Some still agreed with the United States' assessment of itself as a liberator. In the middle-class Zayuna neighborhood, friendly people offered American Marines baths, bread and buoyant greetings -- and asked for both autographs and help against looters.

But for other Iraqis, in dozens of interviews conducted across Baghdad, the assessment was drastically different: America as conqueror.

``The coalition forces are responsible. Where is the law?'' said Safa Hussein Qasim, 44, a jeweler. ``This is the promise of the United States to Iraq? This is democracy in Baghdad?''

U.S. forces reopened the Al-Rasheed and the Al-Jumhuriya bridges across the Tigris River dividing the city, and looters swarmed across. They pushed into several government buildings, including the Planning Ministry.

Along with looting, fighting continued in the Iraqi capital: A U.S. Marine was shot and killed at the checkpoint he was manning by a man carrying Syrian identification, and a firefight erupted Saturday evening outside the Palestine Hotel, where many journalists are based. Marines took cover behind trees from heavy machine gun fire.

To walk the streets Saturday was to wade through a crazy-quilt blend of disarray and sadness, rage and jubilation and self-hatred. Though available booty was running low, looting continued apace, as did citizen resistance to it. One man carried a purloined tuba up the street. Baghdadis fretted and argued: What would become of their country?

``Saddam Hussein's greatest crime is that he brought the American army to Iraq,'' said Gailan Ramiz, 62, helping a mob that was trying to tear down yet another Saddam statue at Shorji market, Baghdad's biggest.

It is stories like Hassan Shrawa's that are making them turn their backs on the uniformed Americans who swept in days ago.

Shrawa, 30, an engineer from Baghdad's Saddam City section, said he and his neighbors captured a Syrian mercenary and turned him over to U.S. troops Friday. As Shrawa tells it, the commander flatly refused to take custody of the man.

``What happens in the future?'' Shrawa mused.

U.S. forces say they are doing the best they can under chaotic conditions -- chaos, many Iraqis point out, that the United States itself created. Few praised Saddam. But at least, they said, he offered stability.

Baghdad lacks that right now. Water, electricity and gasoline are pipe dreams, and food is becoming almost as scarce.

Impromptu commerce is springing up on the sidewalks. One man made money stitching moccasins back together. At a nearby stall, another man dished out bowls of rice and beans from two steaming cauldrons.

On the streets of Zayuna, curious children milled around Saturday, trying out English phrases and asking for Marines' addresses. One presented Sgt. Paul Coughlin of Boston with a red flower that he nestled in his grenade pouch; another played marbles with medic Brent Cook, 23, of Houston.

Elsewhere, the Marines received less enthusiasm. In front of the Palestine Hotel, an area thick with U.S. Marines, several dozen Iraqis demanded a new government -- now. ``We want peace,'' they chanted in English as Marines looked on from fighting vehicles.

Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, at U.S. Central Command, says reports of looting in Iraq are overblown -- that many parts of the country are peaceful, and lawlessness ``is already tapering off significantly.''

U.S. officials insist the restoration of law and order will become a higher priority. The State Department said Friday it was sending 26 police and judicial officers to Iraq, the first component of a team that will eventually number about 1,200. And on Saturday, the U.S. military and the Iraqi police said they've agreed to joint patrols to restore order -- ``sooner rather than later,'' one Marine said.

For Iraqis on the ground, such promises mean little until they're delivered.

Residents, fearing looting would move on to private homes, set up neighborhood patrols to prevent it. One family put a girder across the street at the end of their block and stood by it with guns. They, too, denounced America.

``The United States breaks into the palaces and then threatens all the people who steal from them,'' said Efil Adnan, a 48-year-old oil engineer guarding the barricade with two of his sons and his brother. He held a pistol; the brother wielded a Kalashnikov.

``The United States is a liar,'' Adnan said. ``They are not going to make anything better.''

His son, Forkan Efil, 13, wore a T-shirt that said ``Football'' and also carried a pistol. He said all his friends have guns now.

``I don't like the Americans,'' the boy said, ``but this pistol is for the thieves.''

At the market, the dozens of men attempting to tear down the Saddam statue didn't have the oomph. The chain kept snapping, and finally they turned to Plan B -- pouring gasoline over it and setting it ablaze.

But in doing so, they made sure one important point was known -- just because they revel in Saddam's ouster doesn't mean they're waving American flags.

``The army of America is like Genghis Khan,'' Fouad Abdullah Ahmed, 49, snapped as U.S. tanks rumbled by without stopping. ``America is not good and Saddam is not good. My people refused Saddam Hussein, and they will refuse the Americans.''

One young man went even further.

``If this continues in Baghdad, we'll kill any American or British soldier,'' said Rahad Bahman Qasim, 30 and unemployed. For emphasis, he added this: ``All of us -- even the women.''

------

EDITOR'S NOTE -- Niko Price is correspondent-at-large for The Associated Press.
 
The United States knew that was going to happen, mb. That's why there is going to be a force 1,500 strong that's going to be sent to Baghdad to police the city. And don't worry about some Iraqis' threat. The military convoy would tear through the city and kill the Iraqis like ants should any of them be foolish enough to take arms against the U.S..
 
I still say we were safer with economic sanctions against Saddam. That at least forced them to smuggle weapons in. Now the US will probably start selling weapons to them again as part of the rebuilding effort.

Face it, these people aren't deserving of democracy. Bush is delusional if he thinks there will ever be a true election in Iraq (one without suicide bombers)
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:
I still say we were safer with economic sanctions against Saddam. That at least forced them to smuggle weapons in. Now the US will probably start selling weapons to them again as part of the rebuilding effort.

Face it, these people aren't deserving of democracy. Bush is delusional if he thinks there will ever be a true election in Iraq (one without suicide bombers)

I think the anti-Americans that live in America aren't deserving of democracy. But that's just me.
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:


Yeah I'm arrogant, but the towel heads dancing in the streets after the 9/11 attacks were disgusting. :mad:

Yeah, I agree with you there.
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:


Yeah I'm arrogant, but the towel heads dancing in the streets after the 9/11 attacks were disgusting. :mad:

Disguisting is an understatment, yet im now confused. If you feel Saddam had nothing to do with the 9/11, why would his people be celebrating?
-Howl
 
road_to_baghdad.jpg
 
Wolfie 45 said:


Disguisting is an understatment, yet im now confused. If you feel Saddam had nothing to do with the 9/11, why would his people be celebrating?
-Howl

They were celebrating because Americans DIED! They don't care who did it. If a meteor landed in Washington and destroyed the entire city they would have been celebrating as well even though they had nothing to do with the meteor.
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:


They were celebrating because Americans DIED! They don't care who did it. If a meteor landed in Washington and destroyed the entire city they would have been celebrating as well even though they had nothing to do with the meteor.

They rarely named the origin of the tapes that showed the celebrations. But It would be wise to say that there were celebrations in every country that day, and while it may represent a small portion of the people, not everyone feels like that. Paintbrushing people like that is wrong, and it gets INNOCENT people killed, just like 9/11. Im going to go out on a limb here and say that if there was celebrations in Iraq, it was the same people celebrating who were and are shooting at our troops. I dont feel as though it represents the sentiment of the majority of the Iraqi people.
-Howl
 
Wolfie, I guess I have a different opinion of people in the Middle East. Iraq has a population of about 24 million people. Probably about 20 million of them would love to see all Americans dead.
 
Fast Twitch Fiber said:
Whenever I hear people trying to justify this attack against Iraq I frequently hear the phrase "Don't you remember 9/11?" Well, yes I remember 9/11 quite well. I'm convinced Saddam had nothing to do with it but that's beside the point. I also remember seeing news clips from Arab nations showing people celebrating in the streets. I wonder how many of these recently "liberated" Iraqis were dancing in the streets on 9/11? My guess is that there were many.

I'm already hearing talks of lifting economic sanctions against Iraq. That's going to free them to re-arm themselves unchecked. Once these sanctions are gone what's going to stop a nation like Pakistan from selling them nukes? At least with the sanctions in place under Saddam we could keep a careful watch on them.

While they may be shouting "Long live Bush" now, these are Islamic fundamentalists that will not hesitate to stab us in the back. They may hate Saddam, but they hate those of us in America even more.

I think that Bush and everyone involved already know all of this. I don't think we're going to blindly trust them. We will not allow them to become a threat again. Time will tell how much of a physical presence we will have over there, but Iraq is now under our control and anything they do will be monitored. Anytime they get out of control, we're prepared to slap them in the mouth. There is not one middle east expert on this board. There are a lot of them in the administration. The best people do here is post articles from the internet to make them look smart.
 
Muscle Geek, I hope you're right. However, Bush previously stated that there would not be long term occupation of Iraq. To accomplish the goal of establishing democracy it's going to require long term occupation. Wasn't he also going to establish democracy in Afghanistan?
 
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