Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Okay let’s say I inject 400mg EW of a compound like CYP with its 12dy half life. So on day 1 I have 400mg of Test with 8 carbons attached to it. This test is essentially inactive until some of those carbons start falling off and the test is released. This happens at a rate roughly equal to 5.5% per day (resulting in 50% over 12dy). Once the test is freed from the carbons the hormone has a very short active life in my body, its either bound to SHBG, amortized, bound to receptors or metabolized by my liver. My point is I’m never really “on 400mg EW” its more like I’m on up to 50mg ED (cumulative impact of successive 400mg weeks) for some time. I think the body produces something like 8mg to 12mg ED, thus it’s conceivable that you could use this information to help in planning the start of PCT.
Basic pharmacology question re: esters
- Thread starter thx9000
- Start date
GoldenDelicious
New member
to save on all the theorising just look up a blood testosterone over time profile for a single dose of test cyp and you will see what the blood level looks like. for multiple dosing regimes, all you need to do is add the area under the curve for the next shot from the point onwards after your next dose
the rate of free testosterone release is more complex than your description above. unless you want to get into university level pharmacokinetics id stick with using profiles and learning how to add area under the curve
cheers
the rate of free testosterone release is more complex than your description above. unless you want to get into university level pharmacokinetics id stick with using profiles and learning how to add area under the curve
cheers
GoldenDelicious
New member
lol you bastard make me run around for you 
to be honest no i dont, as a matter of fact it is a real bastard getting them anywhere online- even with a very popular agent like sustanon all i got was a single sentence "testosterone levels will rise sharply to a peak plasma level 24 to 48 hours after im injection, and slowly return to lower baseline levels in around 3 weeks"
although, if you know the half life you can plot your own very easily. its just exponential decay. if you dont want to do it using an exponent, then make a table and plot that. using, say, 6 or 8 time intervals is more than enough to get a decent curve.
id do it for you but not i dont have office on this computer.
if you get really really confused post again and ill try to get something together to help out
or...i think i saw an online plasma level calculator somewhere...all you had to do is punch in the dose and the active half life....damn where did i see it...its on a muscle site somewhere....have a look
to be honest no i dont, as a matter of fact it is a real bastard getting them anywhere online- even with a very popular agent like sustanon all i got was a single sentence "testosterone levels will rise sharply to a peak plasma level 24 to 48 hours after im injection, and slowly return to lower baseline levels in around 3 weeks"
although, if you know the half life you can plot your own very easily. its just exponential decay. if you dont want to do it using an exponent, then make a table and plot that. using, say, 6 or 8 time intervals is more than enough to get a decent curve.
id do it for you but not i dont have office on this computer.
if you get really really confused post again and ill try to get something together to help out
or...i think i saw an online plasma level calculator somewhere...all you had to do is punch in the dose and the active half life....damn where did i see it...its on a muscle site somewhere....have a look
milo hobgoblin
New member
ROFL "until the carbons start falling off" ... BWAHAHAH
They arent fucking legos!!! The entire ester group is oxidized by the liver at once... the ester group is specific to systemic availability ... NOT specific to the liver. The liver doesnt see a prop group (3 carbon chain) any different that it sees a cyp group (10 carbon)... but it see the cyp much slower over time that something like prop (which ~3 day half life) and 12 days for cyp is hopeful its more like 9. Baically the more carbons... the slower its available for metabolic activity by ANY organ. Enanthate its more like 12. And 400mg is not a very big dose at all...PCT with that (assuming its all your doing) will only need to be VERY minimal.
It isnt till you start mixing in shit like Tren or Deca that you have to be concerned with exact timing if PCT. Straight Tests like Cyp, Prop, En. just arent that hard on you.
Keep in mind that any PCT you do will take a few days to build up in your system and create any "effect"... PCT's should be frontloaded just like AAS.
They arent fucking legos!!! The entire ester group is oxidized by the liver at once... the ester group is specific to systemic availability ... NOT specific to the liver. The liver doesnt see a prop group (3 carbon chain) any different that it sees a cyp group (10 carbon)... but it see the cyp much slower over time that something like prop (which ~3 day half life) and 12 days for cyp is hopeful its more like 9. Baically the more carbons... the slower its available for metabolic activity by ANY organ. Enanthate its more like 12. And 400mg is not a very big dose at all...PCT with that (assuming its all your doing) will only need to be VERY minimal.
It isnt till you start mixing in shit like Tren or Deca that you have to be concerned with exact timing if PCT. Straight Tests like Cyp, Prop, En. just arent that hard on you.
Keep in mind that any PCT you do will take a few days to build up in your system and create any "effect"... PCT's should be frontloaded just like AAS.
GoldenDelicious
New member
milo mate i disagree with you there. you can and do supress the testes following a single shot of 100mg test. 400mg is certainly enough to require pct for optimal hpta normalisation. thx9000 has the right idea here, and i wish everyone did- using halflives of your agents you can work out (to within a couple of days on the outside) when your blood aas level is equivalent to 200ng/dL of testosterone, which is the precise time that you want to have therapeutic levels of your anti estrogen.
anyway i cant find that bloody calculator. it doesnt matter too much anyway. just work it out by hand.
lets say we are talking test cyp, and lets say someone wants to do 400mg every 6 days (just to make it easy). their blood levels would look like:
time = 0 (first shot) total test = 400mg
time = 6 (second shot) total test = about 280mg from first dose plus 400 from second, or 680mg total
time = 12 (third shot) total test = 200 from first, 280 from second, 400 from third, so 880 mg total
people should really look at this. even on 400mg a week, after 2 weeks and one day you will have 880mg in your body. just goes to show just how much accumulation there is
sit there with a pen and pencil for a little while, youll get the hang of it
cheerios
anyway i cant find that bloody calculator. it doesnt matter too much anyway. just work it out by hand.
lets say we are talking test cyp, and lets say someone wants to do 400mg every 6 days (just to make it easy). their blood levels would look like:
time = 0 (first shot) total test = 400mg
time = 6 (second shot) total test = about 280mg from first dose plus 400 from second, or 680mg total
time = 12 (third shot) total test = 200 from first, 280 from second, 400 from third, so 880 mg total
people should really look at this. even on 400mg a week, after 2 weeks and one day you will have 880mg in your body. just goes to show just how much accumulation there is
sit there with a pen and pencil for a little while, youll get the hang of it
cheerios
GoldenDelicious
New member
oh i just noticed i made an error...its not 2 weeks and one day its after 13 days oops
oops I have created curves based on available esterfied (sp) product. I'm just not sure how useful that information is. If I have 200mg of esterfied Prop in me that means something ENTIRELY different than 200mg esterfied deca. That's why I attempted to look at this the way I did in my original post.
GoldenDelicious
New member
no need to argue and clutter the thread with bullshit.
use a pharmacopoeia or manufacturers drug information/websites and you should get a detailed description of what happens to plasma/blood levels of the drug youre interested in, and construct your graph from there. using halflives is a bit tricky with these drugs since the half life you will hear about is ballpark only. there are in fact many different halflives for any given drug depending on a few things.
furthermore with weekly dosing regimes of long acting esters you get a gradual build up over the cycle anyway. its not like youre going to bottom out and have untherapeutic levels because you thought the half life was 12 when in fact it is 9. if anything it just means your pct will be off by a couple of days. big deal.
use a pharmacopoeia or manufacturers drug information/websites and you should get a detailed description of what happens to plasma/blood levels of the drug youre interested in, and construct your graph from there. using halflives is a bit tricky with these drugs since the half life you will hear about is ballpark only. there are in fact many different halflives for any given drug depending on a few things.
furthermore with weekly dosing regimes of long acting esters you get a gradual build up over the cycle anyway. its not like youre going to bottom out and have untherapeutic levels because you thought the half life was 12 when in fact it is 9. if anything it just means your pct will be off by a couple of days. big deal.
