Bad news about Ecstasy

[Ercole]

I know this is off-topic, but it doesn't seem to fit on any of the other boards either, and we've had some E threads here lately:

ECSTASY USE INCREASES MENTAL DISORDERS

(Filed: 15/01/2002 Daily Telegraph)


DANCERS at clubs who take ecstasy are 25 per cent more likely to have a mental disorder, according to a survey published yesterday.

One in four had a potentially serious psychiatric disorder compared to the national average of one in five, showed the survey of 1,000 readers of the dance magazine Mixmag.

Respondents were also twice as likely to have seen a doctor about a mental health problem, with half of those concerned about depression.

In the survey, 98 per cent of readers said that they took ecstasy regularly and 45 per cent took cocaine.

Both drugs have been associated with problems such as paranoia, panic attacks and depression, and the figures add weight to research which has warned of their dangers.

One in 10 users believed that taking ecstasy had made their lives worse overall.

"The survey is bearing out studies from the laboratory which suggest ecstasy can cause depression," said Viv Craske, Mixmag senior editor.

"Our readers seem to be telling us that what the scientists have warned is true."

The publishers claim that the survey is the world's biggest and most detailed study of its kind and gives "the most accurate snapshot of drug taking in young Britain today".

It was carried out in conjunction with Dr Adam Winstock of the National Addiction Centre.

The survey suggested that drug use fell last year, with a sharp reduction in the popularity of "new" drugs such as ketamine and GHB.

Mr Craske said: "This year's results shows that clubbers' attitudes are changing. The year 2000 was all about bingeing on cheap E and experimenting with new drugs like ketamine and GHB.

"It was a phase. I think a lot of people who were doing binge drug-taking realised they were risking their physical and mental health."

Drug users had also been shaken by the death of Lorna Spinks, the 19-year-old student who died last May after taking ecstasy while visiting clubs in Cambridge.

 

[Pennywise]

Damn, this is a new article? I thought it had been common knowledge for some time now. At least everyone I know, knows this.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Damn, this is a new article? I thought it had been common knowledge for some time now. At least everyone I know, knows this.

yeah pretty much common knowledge

 

[bmit]

x is the bomb if you do it only a few times a year, especially w/ a girlfriend. I was doing it once a week for a couple of months and led to depression. Saturday night felt great. Then sunday thru thursday felt like shit. Like everything else, use it but don't abuse it.

 

[ragin']

jesus.... moderation, people... moderation,

 

[SDRaver]

If your taking E just to be happy then you've definitley have a potential for problems.

 

[dissto]

we since i took e from 94 to 2000 on a weekly basis, i guess i have some serious issues. but now i traded those drugs for gear. i think this is called an addictive personallity disorder. YEY FOR ME

 

[GaryWary]

If your taking E just to be happy then you've definitley have a potential for problems.

A tad simplistic, ironic, hypocritcal and judgemental me thinks...

Why?

Cos you are here presumably because you take illegal drugs - i.e. AS i.e. you like AS because they have the net effect of making you happy.

Also, it is quite possible that occassional small use of E might not cause noticeble damage to the brain. Mixmag - a magazine that I read, and the magazine that undertook the survey is a serious and well respected dance magazine. Many of it's users will be of the 'more than one E a night' variety. When I used to club regularly I used to take just one pill. I continually met people that took 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and more pills in a night.... People who take 10 pills a night are not that uncommon in the dance scene here in the UK... I met plenty of the 10-a-night variety.

So the question is:

Does 1 tablet cause the damage that 2-10+ causes. Logic says not, me thinks..

Also, it isn't a question of not being able to be happy without E - it is a question of:

Getting into the music - hardhouse, trance, techno, hardcore, drum and bass, house, etc.

Becoming one with surroundings, friends and strangers..

Having no worries

Dancing with no inhibition or care..

In short, E offers a profound experience. But how much causes the damage? And what right do people have to condemn E users based upon the media's inaccurate and emotive horror stories.

 

[DTA]

GaryWary, I agree completely. Don't judge based on what studies report. My friends and I have been doing E for six months. Usually twice a month, sometimes more, and we drop two at a time. None of us have any problems with depression or anxiety and I've never been happier in my life. I won't do E forever, but it really isn't as bad as the media makes it out to be. I'm not saying it's good for you, but there's just a lot of hype about it being so dangerous that is a little biased.

 

[FlexBailey]

Rave on GaryWary..*L*
Raving is for the gay.

 

[FlexBailey]

I'm sorry but you two guys sound pathetic, can you say denial? If you have to drop E every weekend you have a fucking problem that needs fixing. And to think you come to a bodybuilding forum as this.*L* Get a grip guys!

 

[DTOX]

I'm sorry but you two guys sound pathetic, can you say denial? If you have to drop E every weekend you have a fucking problem that needs fixing. And to think you come to a bodybuilding forum as this.*L* Get a grip guys!

I'm sorry but you two guys sound pathetic, can you say denial? If you have to take roids every weekend you have a fucking problem that needs fixing. And to think you come to a discussion forum as this.*L* Get a grip guys!

 

[GaryWary]

I'm sorry but you two guys sound pathetic, can you say denial? If you have to drop E every weekend you have a fucking problem that needs fixing. And to think you come to a bodybuilding forum as this.*L* Get a grip guys!

Ho hum. I am not going to flame you back. I merely point out that the study might not be up to much. After all, it is based upon anecdotal evidence (questionnaires filled in by readers of Mixmag magazine). 1 in 4 getting mental problems as opposed to 1 in 5.. And again, how much of that increase is because people are taking to damn much?

Pathetic? No, actually I am not. I love music and I love dancing. E, despite its 'problems' is the dance drug. I believe my experience on E was positive. You are being judgemental. Totally and unfairly judgemental. You obviously don't understand dance culture.

Oh yes, and I come to a bodybuilding forum cos I am a bodybuilder who has done one proper cycle (but you don't hear me condemning those that have done shit loads of AS!).

And to the other reponse above.. no rave is not just for the gay. All are welcome.

 

[FlexBailey]

Listen Gary, I've worked Raves, helped promote raves, know tons of people in the scene. Known some people to get wrecked on it. I've popped E once about 2 years ago. Sure I had a great time while I was on it but it destroyed my appetite and training for a week. I'm a bodybuilder through and through so I don't take things that wreck my body and my workouts. If you call yourself a bodybuilder than you would think as I do. The facts are out there about E, ignore them if you want but just don't call yourself a bodybuilder while you take shit like that . Once in a while for a good time fine..but more than that is poor.

 

[Pennywise]

Ho hum. I am not going to flame you back. I merely point out that the study might not be up to much. After all, it is based upon anecdotal evidence (questionnaires filled in by readers of Mixmag magazine). 1 in 4 getting mental problems as opposed to 1 in 5.. And again, how much of that increase is because people are taking to damn much?

Pathetic? No, actually I am not. I love music and I love dancing. E, despite its 'problems' is the dance drug. I believe my experience on E was positive. You are being judgemental. Totally and unfairly judgemental. You obviously don't understand dance culture.

Oh yes, and I come to a bodybuilding forum cos I am a bodybuilder who has done one proper cycle (but you don't hear me condemning those that have done shit loads of AS!).

And to the other reponse above.. no rave is not just for the gay. All are welcome.

The study I saw was not from a dance magazine, it was from JAMA. And it was not biased and based on anecdotal evidence, it was from case studies. It melts away your brain matter, and that is appearing to be more and more evident each time you post.

 

[DTA]

If you call yourself a bodybuilder than you would think as I do. The facts are out there about E, ignore them if you want but just don't call yourself a bodybuilder while you take shit like that

The "facts" are also out there about all kinds of damage steroids can do to you, especially in high doses like many of us do. So are you saying you can call yourself a bodybuilder even if you take dangerously high doses of steroids and growth hormone and insulin (like the pro bodybuilders do) but when you take E, whether it's once in a while like myself, or every weekend, then you can't call yourself a bodybuilder? I just have to disagree with that. It sounds hypocritical when put that way. Besides, if you knew the stuff some of those pros did behind the scenes. Jesus Christ you wouldn't believe it. If you don't take E, it's your choice, just don't knock those that do. Just like if you're natural, you shouldn't rag on the guys that take steroids.
I'm not trying to flame anyone, just adding a different viewpoint.

 

[GaryWary]

The study I saw was not from a dance magazine, it was from JAMA. And it was not biased and based on anecdotal evidence, it was from case studies. It melts away your brain matter, and that is appearing to be more and more evident each time you post.

OOOohhh Get you. I have an IQ of 150, a degree from Brunel University's Special Engineering Programme (SEP), and a PhD from Imperial college.. nope.. nothing wrong with my brain matter. Twat.

 

[ragin']

OOOohhh Get you. I have an IQ of 150, a degree from Brunel University's Special Engineering Programme (SEP), and a PhD from Imperial college.. nope.. nothing wrong with my brain matter. Twat.

UpphhhBwaaahhhaahhhaaaa!!!!!!

 

[GaryWary]

UpphhhBwaaahhhaahhhaaaa!!!!!!

tee hee hee hee

guffaw

 

[FlexBailey]

The "facts" are also out there about all kinds of damage steroids can do to you, especially in high doses like many of us do. So are you saying you can call yourself a bodybuilder even if you take dangerously high doses of steroids and growth hormone and insulin (like the pro bodybuilders do) but when you take E, whether it's once in a while like myself, or every weekend, then you can't call yourself a bodybuilder? I just have to disagree with that. It sounds hypocritical when put that way. Besides, if you knew the stuff some of those pros did behind the scenes. Jesus Christ you wouldn't believe it. If you don't take E, it's your choice, just don't knock those that do. Just like if you're natural, you shouldn't rag on the guys that take steroids.
I'm not trying to flame anyone, just adding a different viewpoint.

Steroids are a means to an end. Steroids are directly linked with bodybuilding and have many postitive effects on muscle growth where as E is strictly taken for the 'buzz' and high. Both have their definite negatives but steroids do have postives to a bodybuilder..E have no positives whatsoever.

 

[manny78]

E is shit. No need for that. I'm happy the way I am.

 

[juiceheadnyc]

i think e is a waste of fuckin money, it does nothig for u but fuk up ur body and makes u feel good for an hour....if ur gonna do drugs do something that makes u look siiiik

 

[DTA]

That's a great point actually. You're right, steroids are beneficial for bodybuilding purposes. I guess what I should say is that it's OK to have fun even if it doesn't exactly go along with your "bodybuilding" practices. You should still be able to call youself a bodybuilder though even if you do ecstacy sometimes. Hell, look how many people drink once or twice or even three times a week and call themselves bodybuilders. It's OK to have fun, but if you don't reach your goals then you have no one to blame but yourself, I'll admit that. I didn't get big and ripped just so I could sit at home though, I love to go out and get crazy here and there. It gets me laid often and keeps me from losing my mind. I'm still a bodybuilder though.

 

[GaryWary]

That's a great point actually. You're right, steroids are beneficial for bodybuilding purposes. I guess what I should say is that it's OK to have fun even if it doesn't exactly go along with your "bodybuilding" practices. You should still be able to call youself a bodybuilder though even if you do ecstacy sometimes. Hell, look how many people drink once or twice or even three times a week and call themselves bodybuilders. It's OK to have fun, but if you don't reach your goals then you have no one to blame but yourself, I'll admit that. I didn't get big and ripped just so I could sit at home though, I love to go out and get crazy here and there. It gets me laid often and keeps me from losing my mind. I'm still a bodybuilder though.

Nice to see some solidarity. IMO the kind of bodybuilder that eats, sleeps, and shits bodybuilding is actually (wait for it) a BORE!

There is more to life than bodybuilding. I like bodybuilding. I have done one proper cycle and will do another. But I also have other interests - making electronic music, my girlfriend, mountain biking. I believe the word is 'balance'.

I find it strange that bodybuilders on an AS discussion board will go on about how bad E or cannabis is. It seems hypocritical to say that one drug is bad and one drug is good when all drugs CAN BE bad.

 

[FlexBailey]

If you do E once a week I think it has gotten control over you..that is BAD news. Sure it's okay to have fun once in awhile, but weekly is too much. Drugs like E last in you for along time, it's just not worth it. I drink maybe once every 6 months..never do any other form of drugs other than Anabolics. I like being pure for bodybuilding..I like making as much gains a possible and anything that gets in the way of that gets thrown out the window.

 

[Gorlim]

You really can't take one illegal substance and criticize another. Your fucking up your liver and other areas of your body by doing steroids. He's fucking up his brain. Now you might say well i use moderate levels blah blah so no long term damage, well he can say the same as well. Oh and he wants to take XTC its his life he wants to have some fun i see nothing wrong with that, while you do steroids for vanity(unless you happen to be a professional athlete). THats the bottomline, to each his own.

 

[LONE_AZ]

All I can say is my life is none for the better because of E**. The whole notion that you can try it once and like it and not do it again goes against human nature and the laws of addiction. I would have to say there is nothing like a good X high but the cost on you mind body and soul is far to much for most. My best advice to those who have not tries X is "don't".... Because you might like it. And that can lead you down a path that honestly sucks.

 

[FlexBailey]

Geez, this is funny.
Steroids helps one accomplish personal goals.
E gives a high but in ohter words DOES NOTHING.

Steroids are prescribed by doctors.
Is E given on prescription? I didn't think so.*L* PERIOD.

 

[Gorlim]

are u retarded? Steroids are prescribed by doctors for people with aids or that are very weak because of disease or illness. YOUR using them for vanity. You know what man you should not touch any E because u cant afford to lose any brain cells.

 

[GaryWary]

Geez, this is funny.
Steroids helps one accomplish personal goals.
E gives a high but in ohter words DOES NOTHING.

Steroids are prescribed by doctors.
Is E given on prescription? I didn't think so.*L* PERIOD.

Ecstacy (MDMA) used to be prescribed by psychotherapists in the USA.....

Example extract:

....Stevens said she gained years of quality life with her dying husband by using the drug, also known as methylenedioxymethamphetamine, or MDMA. This was her first public speech, but she has been written up in various publications including Time magazine and appeared on 48 hours and MTV, hoping to convince the mainstream that MDMA is a valuable psychotherapy tool, not just a party drug.

"In one night with six hours worth of an MDMA therapeutic session, we managed to cure every emotional problem we had that was associated with the cancer," Stevens said.......

 

[GaryWary]

An MDMA therapy program has begun in Madrid, Spain, addressing post-traumatic stress disorder.

 

[GaryWary]

The big argument is whether MDMA is "neurotoxic," i.e., whether it permanently damages serotonin brain cells and can cause permanent brain dysfunction.

Some researchers, like Dr. Charles Grob doubt that it does. Grob is the director of the Division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at Harbor-UCLA School of Medicine, and the only researcher to date to have performed an FDA-approved clinical trial on MDMA.

Others, like George Ricaurte, believe MDMA is too dangerous to give to humans under any circumstances. Ricaurte works in the department of neurobiology at John Hopkins University School of Medicine, and has published research showing monkeys still showed damaged serotonin axons seven years after they were given MDMA.

While Grob is waiting to begin his next study, other researchers are proceeding with animal studies.

The body's apparent inability to regulate its temperature while under the effects of MDMA according to many press reports in the past several years has sent many "ravers" to the emergency room with symptoms of dehydration and hyperthermia.

One researcher gave MDMA to rats and studied them for the same symptoms.

Since simply handling a rat can change its body temperature and invalidate the study, Jessica Malberg and her colleagues at the University of Chicago devised a temperature-controlled box out of a dorm room refrigerator.

Next, they built an AM radio device about the size of a jelly bean, and implanted it in the rats. The radio signal beamed the temperature of the rat to the researchers.

They found that in cold environments, the rats' body temperatures decreased significantly under the effects of MDMA, and in warm temperatures it went up.

Ultimately, many of the conference attendees hope for broad legalization of MDMA.

"I hope it will be like the Berlin wall, and it will come down in a big crash and it will be a whole new world," said an elderly man at the conference.

Doblin of MAPS agreed.

"People should be able to decide on their own to take these risks," he said.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41457,00.html

 

[GaryWary]

The extraordinary drug ecstasy, or MDMA, (technically (±) 3, 4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) was first synthesised in 1912 by the German company Merck Pharmaceuticals. They were looking for a drug to use to reduce bleeding when they stumbled upon ecstasy, which they then patented but never marketed. The next notable use of ecstasy was by the US government in animal experimentation in 1953. The first published report on the effects of ecstasy in humans was written by Doctor Alexander Shulgin who began synthesising it and experimenting with it in California in 1978. Shulgin also introduced it to therapists who recognised its potential use in psychotherapy. It made its way onto the streets and became widely used and sold, spreading to Europe and Australia. Its popularity grew until it was banned in 1985 in the USA, and two years later in Australia. This occurred despite the face of opposition and petitioning from doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists who were concerned that valuable research into the effects of ecstasy and similar psychoactives, both positive and negative, would be stifled by its prohibition. Nonetheless, ecstasy is widely used across the world and continues to provoke scientific and policy debate. Through the fog and mirrors of government and media disinformation, there has been a distinct lack of balanced reporting on ecstasy. This article will review the latest scientific evidence and outline the negative and positive effects of ecstasy.

http://www.pelican.guild.uwa.edu.au/editions/71-6/10

 

[GaryWary]

Flawed Studies
It is worrying that the effects of ecstasy are so subtle only a battery of specifically targeted psychological tests can detect them. Users may think ecstasy is not affecting them and continue using, thus causing cumulative damage (McCann, 1999). Its long term effects, in conjunction with the ageing process, could lead to depression, anxiety and cognitive dysfunction, as serotonin neurons have been implicated in some psychiatric illnesses (McCann, 1998). Other studies have argued that long term effects may include attention deficits, nervousness, irritability, demotivation, inactivation and ecstasy craving. Particularly worrying is an observation by Dafters in his 1999 study of brainwave patterns that "the pattern of MDMA related increased desynchronisation of the EEG activity we find here [in users] mimics the effects of ageing in normal populations." Recent media reports are largely based on the foregoing studies.


Both types of study are deeply flawed. Most use excessively small sample sizes (eg 15-30 users), and extrapolate to the general population. All human studies are retrospective rendering them unable to prove links between individuals' past ecstasy use and the mental impairment at issue. The studies use unreliable data because they rely on subjects' honesty and guesses as to their past ecstasy consumption, their promises of abstinence in the lead-up to the tests, and often provide a financial incentive for their participation.


The studies frequently fail to control for multiple drug use in their subjects, perhaps one of the most frequent criticisms of the important Lancet study (Reed, Klugman, Jansen, 1999). Ecstasy users are likely to be users of other drugs, especially other psychoactive substances such as marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, amphetamines and cocaine. None of the studies can control for the effects of these drugs. These other substances may have caused the alleged impairment in users. Meaningful statistical analysis is further frustrated by the fact that users often take ecstasy in conjunction with these other drugs, with their combined interactive effects not being fully understood, or even considered.


Researchers cannot match dosages across subjects because tablets sold as ecstasy will have varying amounts of ecstasy in them, nor can they rule out mental injury from other harmful chemicals frequently found in tablets: "what investigators have shown is a difference in serotonin activity between a group of individuals who thought they had taken MDMA in the past, compared with a group of people who said they had never taken MDMA before"(Jansen, 1999).


A further problem is that institutional and government funded studies usually set out to prove that ecstasy is bad for you and then to no-one's surprise publish their findings confirming this. Nor can the studies eliminate from their data the mental effects of the typically unhealthy lifestyles of users. Users of ecstasy are more likely to have suffered sleep deprivation over long periods which has also been linked with poor psychological performance. They may also have poorer diets, and have lower levels of education. They may not use or exercise cognitive and memory skills as much as better educated individuals, so it is unsurprising that psychological test results are poorer than those of controls. Lower levels of education in user groups was acknowledged in the Gouzoulis-Mayfrank study.


Then there is the issue of whether neurological dysfunction is the cause or effect of ecstasy use (Gamma, 2000), as individuals with pre-existing psychological deficiencies may use ecstasy at greater rates than others. Most of the studies' subjects have had over 100 tablets in recent years, a large dose well beyond that to which many moderate users would be exposed. The environment in which ecstasy is used can also contribute to its neurotoxicity, as heat and dehydration "have been shown to affect the neurotoxic effects of MDMA in laboratory animals" (Holland, 1999).


Adequate longitudinal studies into the effects of ecstasy have not been undertaken, so the extent to which the human brain regenerates serotonin and recovers has not been determined. Hatzidimitriou demonstrated that some degree of serotonin recovery occurs: "seven years after treatment, abnormal brain [serotonin] innervation patterns were still evident in MDMA-treated monkeys, although [serotonin] deficits in some regions were less severe than those observed at 18 months." Provided that these results for monkeys can be extrapolated to humans Hatzidimitriou's study appears to show that the brain recovers in some areas, but not in others. This recovery is abnormal in nature, and it is unclear how this abnormality affects mental functioning. Even the enthusiastic and excitable anti-ecstasy campaigner McCann concedes that "MDMA-induced changes may be reversible" (1998).
finally.........

A further problem is the time between a user's last intake and the tests administered in the studies. If one accepts Hatzidimitriou's finding that abnormality in serotonin systems lasts for some time after use, then one can expect that users will continue to suffer negative effects of ecstasy but that these will diminish with time. Some of the studies, including the Gouzoulis-Mayfrank study, leave as little as seven days between the last intake of ecstasy and complex psychological tests, rendering poorer performance amongst users unexceptional. Most of the foregoing studies are honest in their acknowledgement of their limitations. McCann concludesz that "it is not possible to definitively establish a cause-and-effect relationship between cognitive decline and MDMA use" (1999), though not for want of trying.

Also from:

http://www.pelican.guild.uwa.edu.au/editions/71-6/10
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[Ercole]

GaryWary, thanks for posting your info!

I started this thread to encourage people to share information, which they did. We have a lot of E users on these boards -- I used to do it myself occasionally -- and I think you can never have too much information about the drugs you're using.

 

[GaryWary]

I would also like to add that I no longer use E regularly. I now use it no more than 2, maybe 3 times a year.

 

[emptywallet]

You really can't take one illegal substance and criticize another. Your fucking up your liver and other areas of your body by doing steroids. He's fucking up his brain

Exactly. Even though it sounds really stupid. I would much rather fuck up another part of my body than my brain. Working with mentally retarded kids who had great phisiques (sp) but only had a few marbles rolling around up there was really hard for me a few years ago. They could do so much and were capable of so much but the brain just said no and refused to cooperate. I like my brain. Just the way it is.

 

[Gorlim]

nice post GaryWary, some people are just close minded.

 

[emptywallet]

I have to admit it was rather interesting article Gary. One of the few that doesnt really choose sides but attempts to look at the matter with an open mind. I read one such article in Time awhile back. I also was not aware of this, but apparently there are places where one can go to have their E pills checked for purity, since, and this is proven, most of the overdoses that are attributed to E come when the user only thinks they are taking E but turns out its some other drug. Their shit wasnt pure, tainted of some sorts.

 

[Gorlim]

yup a lot of times people think there getting E and there getting a drug like DXM which is a dissasociative and if u take enough can certainly cause brain damage.. Its the stuff in cough syrup or that used to be in cough syrup heh depends on which one... its like angeldust or ketamine.. imagine someone taking 10 pills like that thinking they were E

 

[FlexBailey]

are u retarded? Steroids are prescribed by doctors for people with aids or that are very weak because of disease or illness. YOUR using them for vanity. You know what man you should not touch any E because u cant afford to lose any brain cells.

No i'm not retarded but apparently you are. Of course I use steroids to look good, we train to look good, everything a bodybuilder does has to do with looking good. Looking good can get me somewhere, that is the advantage.
E is STRICTLY for a buzz. It will get you no where except a hospital.I don't understand how someone can call themselves a bodybuilder but do this shit on the regular because it is KILLING gains.
Bodybuilding means to BUILD, not break down, and that is what Ecstacy is doing.
I had shit training for a week after I did that one time E. That's enough for me to step back and say 'yeah, I had a great 4 hours but felt like shit for the next week'.
Next you're going to tell me that cocaine is great too..I mean what is the difference right?*L*

 

[GaryWary]

No i'm not retarded but apparently you are. Of course I use steroids to look good, we train to look good, everything a bodybuilder does has to do with looking good. Looking good can get me somewhere, that is the advantage.
E is STRICTLY for a buzz. It will get you no where except a hospital.I don't understand how someone can call themselves a bodybuilder but do this shit on the regular because it is KILLING gains.
Bodybuilding means to BUILD, not break down, and that is what Ecstacy is doing.
I had shit training for a week after I did that one time E. That's enough for me to step back and say 'yeah, I had a great 4 hours but felt like shit for the next week'.
Next you're going to tell me that cocaine is great too..I mean what is the difference right?*L*

I don't really get where you are coming from. And I got other things to do (so see my way goddamnit!!!).

If E sent people to the hospitals.. could you explain why there has been less than 1 dozen ecstacy deaths in the UK in the last 10 years. It is estimated that 1million people use ecstacy every weekend here. Now don't get me wrong, E is no wonder drug. I don't doubt for a second that varying degrees of E-caused brain damage will conclusively be proven. But, 1 week of BB training fucked up? Personally, I'd say fuck it - it's a good trade. Had a great time. Lots of nice happy people, excellent bangin' tunes, and a fucking good release of stress. Remember, we aint all that dedicated to the BB cause. Hell, I used to be, but man I now got other things to do...... like live and have fun for example. To each his own.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

If 98% of the responding readership of 'Dance' magazine take extacy regularly and suffer higher statistical rates of depression, how is it that they do not correlate the depression with the likeleyhood of responding to a survey? Or reading a magazine like, 'Dance'? Those statistics do not conclusively prove extacy use leads to depression. They need to do a longitudinal study where changes in individual behavior are noted over the course of time to prove that point.

 

[PsychoSkitz]

I'm living proof.

I don't think that I'm close to where I was mentally before ecstacy use.

Yes, it does cause depression I've learned to live with it.

 

[amenselah]

(Drug users had also been shaken by the death of Lorna Spinks, the 19-year-old student who died last May after taking ecstasy while visiting clubs in Cambridge)


I think that this is Bullshit.....

 

[rahulkohli]

in the uk 330 people die a day from smoking. loadsa of u here smoke and many of u will die from it one day.
70% of domestic violence cases have a direct link to alcohol.
in the uk the number of actual XTC deaths (where pure XTC was involved) is less than 12 in the last 10 years as garywary said.
so im more likely to die from tobacco or get beaten up by alcohol than xtc. im picking xtc.

You'll end up poor, unhappy, wasted life trying to figure out what went wrong, why everyone is able to function so much better than you. THink about what this means. How can you stand to take this drug?

ive taken e. im fine. not every user is gonna get fucked up. lets wait and see what happens to us 30 years down the line with our roid abuse. not gonna be pleasant i bet.

but i do agree with PsychoSkitz. e does cause depression. if u get depressed stop taking it. its not the drugs fault its the people who abuse it.

E is STRICTLY for a buzz. It will get you no where except a hospital

im not in hospital having taken it many times. and the million people who take it every week in the uk, 99.9% of them dont go to hospital. so ur argument has less substance than an essex girl. (lol, a joke for the UK massive)

 

[Maxx Out]

Nice to see some solidarity. IMO the kind of bodybuilder that eats, sleeps, and shits bodybuilding is actually (wait for it) a BORE!

There is more to life than bodybuilding. I like bodybuilding. I have done one proper cycle and will do another. But I also have other interests - making electronic music, my girlfriend, mountain biking. I believe the word is 'balance'.

I find it strange that bodybuilders on an AS discussion board will go on about how bad E or cannabis is. It seems hypocritical to say that one drug is bad and one drug is good when all drugs CAN BE bad.

AMEN brother! The voice of sanity!


Maxx >>>>>