Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I've been doing a combo of oly lifting and strongman training for afew years now and I recently decided to try my hand at powerlifting again. I am working with a coach who has been competing for 30 years and has some impressive numbers. I will try his routine for now but wanted to ask about some of the assistance work he has me doing. He says training calves is important for squatting and most people dont do this. So I did a few calf raises the other day and I can barely walk. I hope he is right because it is very painful. He has me using the adductor and abductor machines which I have never used in my life and he says it will help to keep my knees out when I squat which I have always had a problem with. What do you think? Also after squats he has me doing heavy leg presses with a wide foot position and says this will help my deadlift. heavy bench lockouts using only about a 4 inch ROM today. The rest of the stuff I'm doing makes sense to me but I'm wondering about all the things mentioned.
attempt at powerlifting
- Thread starter hangclean
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bignate73
New member
calf raises, absolutely. What do you think keeps you stable when you are squatting big weights? if your lower leg is flimsy, so will your base be. the pain will subside. its just been a while since you worked them.
ab/adductors are great as well. if you feel your knees shoot in when you squat, thats the first place to go is the abductor machine to strengthen up those medial glutes. hip work, is pretty vital to the whole chain involved in squatting.
ab/adductors are great as well. if you feel your knees shoot in when you squat, thats the first place to go is the abductor machine to strengthen up those medial glutes. hip work, is pretty vital to the whole chain involved in squatting.
BiggT
New member
Nate just about covered it all...strong calves will only help you, and the when the hips are a weak link, the knees come together, so abductors/adductors will help you a lot there......The only thing I would question is the leg presses.....they are a great bodybuilding exercise, and they will certainly help you add plenty of muscle, but I never found them to carry over much to a lift or to anything athletic.....how do you plan to deadlift? sumo or conventional? I imagine since he told u to place the feet wide, that you'll be DLing sumo, and I can see where his reasoning is coming from, I just always felt there are better ways to get 'real life carryover', since in a DL you don't lay down and press with the legs.....if you haven't already, check out elitefts.com and see what Louie Simmons and Dave Tate have to say, and also Jackalsgym.com, Brad Gillingham, who has DLed 800+ 40 times in competition just came out with a training DVD available through the site.....in any event though, leg presses certainly won't hurt you.
Jim Ouini
New member
Really? I always thought that ab/adductor machine was useless - probably for the reason most women use it (to tone the inner thighs), but I had no idea it had carry over to squatting.
So now that begs the question, are isolation exercises on a machine useful for bringing up a weak muscle to aid in a free weight movement? Not to get into a machine vs free weight argument, that was covered pretty well in another thread - my question is if I'm trying to bring up my lifts, should I be adding machine iso exercises to strengthen the weakest link in the chain?
So now that begs the question, are isolation exercises on a machine useful for bringing up a weak muscle to aid in a free weight movement? Not to get into a machine vs free weight argument, that was covered pretty well in another thread - my question is if I'm trying to bring up my lifts, should I be adding machine iso exercises to strengthen the weakest link in the chain?
blut wump
New member
There's the argument that doing the actual exercise that it's the weak link in should be giving it all the stimulation it needs but that never stopped my working triceps alone.
The question I have, though, is whether he's put you into these exercises due to having identified weaknesses in you or as a prophylactic measure since he feels that everyone who squats should have extra-strong calves and ab/adductors?
The question I have, though, is whether he's put you into these exercises due to having identified weaknesses in you or as a prophylactic measure since he feels that everyone who squats should have extra-strong calves and ab/adductors?
BiggT
New member
Jim and Blut Wump,
Those are great posts. Now that Blut Wump brings it up, it is important to know whether or not the hips are a weakness. If they are, then they need to be addressed. This kind of falls along in a discussion of why Westside has been ineffective for some people, and it is because they did accessory work to address weaknesses that weren't their own. Personally, in beginners, if their knees come together on a squat or their lockout is weak, I feel just doing the exercise with a weight that allows good form and increasing resistance from workout to workout is all that is needed. In more advanced athletes, I am a fan of addressing weak points with other movements.
Jim, as far as machines go to address weaknesses, it gets tricky. You have to really have a good, solid understanding of physiolgy to avoid wasting your time...For example, I think adductors/abductors are good to address weak hips by nature of how they strengthen the area and how those muscles act in a squat. You need to be able to pick up on a weak link, diagnose it , and know the treatments so to speak for it. A lot of people just figure, hell, leg presses help your squat because they hit the legs, but this really is not the case. They get the legs to grow, but have little carryover to squatting strength. If you squat PL-Style I think abdutors/adductors are very good , but, if you squat olympic style and the hips become weak, I'd just use PL-style squats as assistance to strengthen the area since your hips probably get little stimulus from your workouts anyway. If you are getting 'folded in' by the weight, I'd suggest weighted ab work and heavy good mornings. Things like that.
So, basically, you need to know how to determine if you have a weakness and what it is, and then understand if an exercise has practical, applicable carryover to the weak area or if it is just an exercise good for cosmetic purposes. Trial and error may even be involved. Also, a lot of times people misinterpret, and they will think "Wow!! abductors and adductors help your squat, I will do them and get a huge squat!!"....but if they have strong hips already they are wasting their time in my opinion. Once someone gets to an advanced level, it is a game of making a weakness a strength, then another new weak link crops up that needs to be addressed, and so on.
This can get controversial and heated too. Look at Bulgarian Olympic lifters, who do zero assistance work and just do the contested lifts, then look at how the Soviets trained, where variety was the spice of life. Both were successful.
Those are great posts. Now that Blut Wump brings it up, it is important to know whether or not the hips are a weakness. If they are, then they need to be addressed. This kind of falls along in a discussion of why Westside has been ineffective for some people, and it is because they did accessory work to address weaknesses that weren't their own. Personally, in beginners, if their knees come together on a squat or their lockout is weak, I feel just doing the exercise with a weight that allows good form and increasing resistance from workout to workout is all that is needed. In more advanced athletes, I am a fan of addressing weak points with other movements.
Jim, as far as machines go to address weaknesses, it gets tricky. You have to really have a good, solid understanding of physiolgy to avoid wasting your time...For example, I think adductors/abductors are good to address weak hips by nature of how they strengthen the area and how those muscles act in a squat. You need to be able to pick up on a weak link, diagnose it , and know the treatments so to speak for it. A lot of people just figure, hell, leg presses help your squat because they hit the legs, but this really is not the case. They get the legs to grow, but have little carryover to squatting strength. If you squat PL-Style I think abdutors/adductors are very good , but, if you squat olympic style and the hips become weak, I'd just use PL-style squats as assistance to strengthen the area since your hips probably get little stimulus from your workouts anyway. If you are getting 'folded in' by the weight, I'd suggest weighted ab work and heavy good mornings. Things like that.
So, basically, you need to know how to determine if you have a weakness and what it is, and then understand if an exercise has practical, applicable carryover to the weak area or if it is just an exercise good for cosmetic purposes. Trial and error may even be involved. Also, a lot of times people misinterpret, and they will think "Wow!! abductors and adductors help your squat, I will do them and get a huge squat!!"....but if they have strong hips already they are wasting their time in my opinion. Once someone gets to an advanced level, it is a game of making a weakness a strength, then another new weak link crops up that needs to be addressed, and so on.
This can get controversial and heated too. Look at Bulgarian Olympic lifters, who do zero assistance work and just do the contested lifts, then look at how the Soviets trained, where variety was the spice of life. Both were successful.
Jim Ouini
New member
OK I understand - you have to know what you're doing 
Seriously though, it does seem like it's a matter of trial and error - it's just that I figured the free weight compound-esque exercises were 'clearly' better as assistance. Let's say hamstrings: RDL or GM vs. a lying down leg curl in a machine. Whether it's for someone trying to help their squat or just someone who has weak hammies in general...perhaps it's the variety thing.
And like BW mentioned I could just squat and bring it up as well.
Anyway, it's all interesting, at least to me
Seriously though, it does seem like it's a matter of trial and error - it's just that I figured the free weight compound-esque exercises were 'clearly' better as assistance. Let's say hamstrings: RDL or GM vs. a lying down leg curl in a machine. Whether it's for someone trying to help their squat or just someone who has weak hammies in general...perhaps it's the variety thing.
And like BW mentioned I could just squat and bring it up as well.
Anyway, it's all interesting, at least to me
Thanks for the replies. I deadlift sumo so I figure thats why he has me doing the wide stance leg presses. My first session with him he assesed my squat form and from there figured what my weeknesses are. He says my inner thigh strength is my wekest area. Today I did bench assistance work that included a lot of rear delt work.
