Anyone try acarbose (a REAL carb blocker) yet?

[DaMan]

http://www.virtualdrugstore.com/diabetes/acarbose.html
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/acarbose_cp.htm

Can this be to carbs what Xenical is to fat? (btw I've been using Xenical for several months now, feel free to shoot any questions with it my way!).

Wanna hear some experiences before I have a doc write me a script.

Yes, this is some research I did in resp to the other "carbo blocker" thread...

 

[macrophage69alpha]

this is not a carb blocker.. its mechanism of action is to slow the digestion and systemic uptake of carbs.. (thus less of an insulin spike)... while it may be beneficial it is not a true "carb blocker".. more of a carb "slower"

 

[DaMan]

this is not a carb blocker.. its mechanism of action is to slow the digestion and systemic uptake of carbs.. (thus less of an insulin spike)... while it may be beneficial it is not a true "carb blocker".. more of a carb "slower"

I was trying to figure out how exactly it works and that's what I thought, though there are some refs to it BLOCKING carbs... I guess that means just blocking them in the small intestine, not the whole pipe...

Would u happen to know of a drug that BLOCKS them?

What's the benefit of SLOWING them anyway?

 

[perfectspecimen]

are there any real carb blockers out there

 

[Spunky]

i would think just like he said.. that slowing the uptake of carbs would create a smaller insulin spike which in turn = less fat gain.

 

[DaMan]

i would think just like he said.. that slowing the uptake of carbs would create a smaller insulin spike which in turn = less fat gain.

hmm. good point... can anyone elaborate or corroborate this? (more detail!)

 

[DaMan]

are there any real carb blockers out there

arguably phaseolim (white kidney bean extract), but so far only proven in vitro. i take it cuz it's cheap

 

[cshell]

bump.

 

[DaMan]

I was trying to figure out how exactly it works and that's what I thought, though there are some refs to it BLOCKING carbs... I guess that means just blocking them in the small intestine, not the whole pipe...

Would u happen to know of a drug that BLOCKS them?

What's the benefit of SLOWING them anyway?

Good question DaMan.

Maybe someone on this board knows... macro, we're looking at you...

 

[clusterfoxtrot]

What about modifying your diet instead? Replace anything made with refined flour (buns, crackers, etc.) or low glycemic value carbs with complex stuff: Kasha, lentils, grains, etc.

If you are in the US, check out a website called http://www.nativeseeds.org/v1/cat.php?catID=63

These are native american foods - these things have amazing properties for slow glycolosis. You can eat some of this stuff and it will take 8 hours to process.

Just a thought....

CF

 

[DaMan]

What about modifying your diet instead? Replace anything made with refined flour (buns, crackers, etc.) or low glycemic value carbs with complex stuff: Kasha, lentils, grains, etc.

If you are in the US, check out a website called http://www.nativeseeds.org/v1/cat.php?catID=63

These are native american foods - these things have amazing properties for slow glycolosis. You can eat some of this stuff and it will take 8 hours to process.

Just a thought....

CF

1. My diet is already very modified. But I want to improve on it. And my body doesn't handle carbs as well (I'm full AS HELL of a small subway sub double-meat but can eat steak w/o end. but I love carbs ). But that's not the point... Although less of an insulin spike is better. I use ALA when I need it.

2. Re native american foods - you caught my attention. I looked at the site and couldn't figure out which is which... any feedback / input ya could give, go for it

Thx.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Good question DaMan.

Maybe someone on this board knows... macro, we're looking at you...

less insulin.. less blood sugar spike.. less fatty acids stored..(due to less insulin and less bloos sugar present)

and more even blood sugar may equal less food cravings..

at least this is the theoretical basing for "slow" carbs

 

[smokinghawk]

1. My diet is already very modified. But I want to improve on it. And my body doesn't handle carbs as well (I'm full AS HELL of a small subway sub double-meat but can eat steak w/o end. but I love carbs ). But that's not the point... Although less of an insulin spike is better. I use ALA when I need it.

2. Re native american foods - you caught my attention. I looked at the site and couldn't figure out which is which... any feedback / input ya could give, go for it

Thx.

As a Native American, I often consume traditional foods when prepared by others. some are very healthy with fibrous wild rice, fish, etc., but some are pure junk carbs: corn, frybread, potato starches, etc.

Traditional meats like venison, elk, buffalo, turtle, rabbit, and fish (if anyone mentions eating dog, I'm just gonna thwack you...I ain't Cheyenne! I'm Ojibway!) are good options.

 

[DaMan]

less insulin.. less blood sugar spike.. less fatty acids stored..(due to less insulin and less bloos sugar present)

and more even blood sugar may equal less food cravings..

at least this is the theoretical basing for "slow" carbs

So you're saying it may be worth a try...?

I'm on a lean mass cycle right now with a moderate-carb diet (200-250g, mostly before 5pm and post-lifting) and am spending the next few weeks totally cutting before I hit the tren.

So should I add it in? I'm hearing a yes...

 

[The Buzzard]

bump.


More info?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

So you're saying it may be worth a try...?

I'm on a lean mass cycle right now with a moderate-carb diet (200-250g, mostly before 5pm and post-lifting) and am spending the next few weeks totally cutting before I hit the tren.

So should I add it in? I'm hearing a yes...

think that the use of r-ALA with post workout meal.. actually at low doses throughout the day might (pretty likely) be more effective.

rapid glucose clearance without the increased insulin brought by s-ala should greatly increase the lipolytic window.. but may be a bit biased .. (though only a bit)

 

[DaMan]

think that the use of r-ALA with post workout meal.. actually at low doses throughout the day might (pretty likely) be more effective.

rapid glucose clearance without the increased insulin brought by s-ala should greatly increase the lipolytic window.. but may be a bit biased .. (though only a bit)

I'm already on ALA and when my bottle runs out next week yes, will be one of the first people trying out the r-ala.

I was actually wondering if ala + acarbose will counter eachother's effects... what do u think re taking both at the same time? (but no acarbose pre-workout so that i can get the max glucose uptake effect with my post-workout shake + ala).

Something else - I read (can't remember where) that acarbose does BLOCK a percentage of carbs from absorbtion (not slow, but block). Huh?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I'm already on ALA and when my bottle runs out next week yes, will be one of the first people trying out the r-ala.

I was actually wondering if ala + acarbose will counter eachother's effects... what do u think re taking both at the same time? (but no acarbose pre-workout so that i can get the max glucose uptake effect with my post-workout shake + ala).

Something else - I read (can't remember where) that acarbose does BLOCK a percentage of carbs from absorbtion (not slow, but block). Huh?

pretty sure that it does not "block" carbs..

they should not counter each other.. but cant say that conclusively.. you would probably(maybe) need less ala with acarbose to get insulin reducing effect.. though acarbose might interfere with glycogen uptake and the 2 may cause VERY low blood sugar when combined

you may have to guinea pig yourself on this one.. and do some comparative analysis

 

[clusterfoxtrot]

Things like the Chia seeds and Amaranth are great for making beverages which taste good. You may need to do a bit of research on recipes and preparation.

The beans are all very fibrous, complex carbs and release the sugars very slowly - stick to the ribs as they say.

I have a theory, unproven but likely true. As a species, we have been eating "modern" food for only about the past 75 years. The preceding 15,000 years were spent eating mostly raw grains, fibrous and leafy vegetables, complex fats, and lean meat sources mixed with a high-activity lifestyle. Genetically, we are not supposed to eat most of the food we do.

The native american diet is largely unchanged, except where Western influence has taken over - hence high rates of obesity, diabetes, and alcoholism - they are all interrelated. Now, understand that I am of Western European descent, so I do NOT consider myself an expert on native american diets.

The bottom line is today's longetivity is only attributed to advances in medicine that prevent death from early disease or otherwise thwart the natural selection (Darwinism) process.

A conversion to a more traditional diet, mixed with some modern foods (I am a big fan of yogurt, tofu, etc.) and meats like ostrich, venison, beefalo help make an otherwise chicken and steak diet more palatable. Especially since I cannot stand seafood.

Sorry I couldn't provide a more sound scientific basis, but there are foods around that are not expensive, not genetically engineered, and provided very stable carbohydrate management without having to use a myriad of advanced concoctions.

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT an au natural type of guy - I'm on a DBol/Andro/19-NorAndro stack right now with Novaldex, but after a while you start to spend so much money and make the process of eating so complicated that you are more likely to f* up something. Also, the fewer variables in your program, the easier your successes (and failures) are to track.

CF

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I'm already on ALA and when my bottle runs out next week yes, will be one of the first people trying out the r-ala.

I was actually wondering if ala + acarbose will counter eachother's effects... what do u think re taking both at the same time? (but no acarbose pre-workout so that i can get the max glucose uptake effect with my post-workout shake + ala).

Something else - I read (can't remember where) that acarbose does BLOCK a percentage of carbs from absorbtion (not slow, but block). Huh?

1: Br J Clin Pharmacol 1999 Dec;48(6):819-25 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Lack of interaction between thioctic acid, glibenclamide and acarbose.

Gleiter CH, Schreeb KH, Freudenthaler S, Thomas M, Elze M, Fieger-Buschges H, Potthast H, Schneider E, Schug BS, Blume HH, Hermann R.

Abteilung Klinische Pharmakologie, Universitat Gottingen, Gottingen, Germany.

AIMS: Thioctic acid (TA), glibenclamide and acarbose are widely used to either alone or concomitantly treat patients suffering from noninsulin-dependent diabetes (NIDDM). This study systematically investigated drug-drug interactions between TA and glibenclamide and TA and acarbose. METHODS: Fourteen male and 10 female healthy volunteers participated a randomized, open three period cross over trial (treatments A-C) followed by a fourth period (treatment D). A baseline profile for plasma insulin and glucose concentrations, variables which served as pharmacodynamic measures, was assessed before entering the trial. Treatments were A=600 mg TA orally, B=3.5 mg glibenclamide orally, C=600 mg TA+3.5 mg glibenclamide, D=600 mg TA+50 mg acarbose. Time courses of R(+)-TA and S(-)-TA as well as glibenclamide concentrations were measured with specific analytical methods. RESULTS: There was no clinically relevant change of TA enantiomer pharmacokinetics by glibenclamide or acarbose. Also, glibenclamide pharmacokinetics were not altered by TA to a clinically meaningful extent. Plasma insulin and glucose concentrations did not indicate an interaction between TA and glibenclamide or TA and acarbose. Glibenclamide had the expected effect on insulin and glucose levels independent of comedication. There were only minor and short lasting adverse events with the majority being (expected) hypoglycaemic symptoms occurring during the treatments with glibenclamide.

CONCLUSIONS: Coadministration of single doses of TA and glibenclamide or TA and acarbose does not appear to cause drug-drug interactions

 

[MR. BMJ]

Dammit macro, you beat me to it!

BMJ

 

[drveejay11]

Damann...check out

www.CarbOff.com

 

[drveejay11]

Damann...check out

www.CarbOff.com

Hey bro, I just checked out this website I gave you. I would stick with:

ALA
Phaseolamine (Nort. White Kidney Bean / Phaseoleus Vulgaris)
Vanydyl Sulfate/Vanadium
Gymnemne Sylvestre

I'm a carb junkie (especially starchy carbs) and I have diabetes in my family so I've got to be extra-careful......I have tried, still currently use, and recommend the above line of supplements!

IMHO....
1)ALA and Phaseolamine work good for cokmplex starchy carbs
2)ALA and Vanadyl work great for Simple Carbs (sugar)
3) Gymnemne Sylvestre "regulates" blood sugar and kills carb cravings immediately

Look up http://www.beyond-a-century.com/

 

[DaMan]

Hey bro, I just checked out this website I gave you. I would stick with:

ALA
Phaseolamine (Nort. White Kidney Bean / Phaseoleus Vulgaris)
Vanydyl Sulfate/Vanadium
Gymnemne Sylvestre

I'm a carb junkie (especially starchy carbs) and I have diabetes in my family so I've got to be extra-careful......I have tried, still currently use, and recommend the above line of supplements!

IMHO....
1)ALA and Phaseolamine work good for cokmplex starchy carbs
2)ALA and Vanadyl work great for Simple Carbs (sugar)
3) Gymnemne Sylvestre "regulates" blood sugar and kills carb cravings immediately

Look up http://www.beyond-a-century.com/

Thx dude, I use(d) all except #3... how do you add acarbose to ti?

 

[DaMan]

1: Br J Clin Pharmacol 1999 Dec;48(6):819-25 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Lack of interaction between thioctic acid, glibenclamide and acarbose.

Gleiter CH, Schreeb KH, Freudenthaler S, Thomas M, Elze M, Fieger-Buschges H, Potthast H, Schneider E, Schug BS, Blume HH, Hermann R.

Abteilung Klinische Pharmakologie, Universitat Gottingen, Gottingen, Germany.

AIMS: Thioctic acid (TA), glibenclamide and acarbose are widely used to either alone or concomitantly treat patients suffering from noninsulin-dependent diabetes (NIDDM). This study systematically investigated drug-drug interactions between TA and glibenclamide and TA and acarbose. METHODS: Fourteen male and 10 female healthy volunteers participated a randomized, open three period cross over trial (treatments A-C) followed by a fourth period (treatment D). A baseline profile for plasma insulin and glucose concentrations, variables which served as pharmacodynamic measures, was assessed before entering the trial. Treatments were A=600 mg TA orally, B=3.5 mg glibenclamide orally, C=600 mg TA+3.5 mg glibenclamide, D=600 mg TA+50 mg acarbose. Time courses of R(+)-TA and S(-)-TA as well as glibenclamide concentrations were measured with specific analytical methods. RESULTS: There was no clinically relevant change of TA enantiomer pharmacokinetics by glibenclamide or acarbose. Also, glibenclamide pharmacokinetics were not altered by TA to a clinically meaningful extent. Plasma insulin and glucose concentrations did not indicate an interaction between TA and glibenclamide or TA and acarbose. Glibenclamide had the expected effect on insulin and glucose levels independent of comedication. There were only minor and short lasting adverse events with the majority being (expected) hypoglycaemic symptoms occurring during the treatments with glibenclamide.

CONCLUSIONS: Coadministration of single doses of TA and glibenclamide or TA and acarbose does not appear to cause drug-drug interactions

SWEET!

One question - why are they using the mixed ala and not just the r-type? (Tell me they're NOT administering 600mg of R(+)).

 

[drveejay11]

I woludn't think you'd need it...Plus...why add another potentially harmful drug with side effects to your regimin? AS are hard enough on you...ya know? Good luck!!!