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any endurance athletes out there?
- Thread starter triguy
- Start date
winny and EQ
Hey all, long time no post. I'm still watching and learning from you all. Racing's been great, i have one good win in the bag and i have enough points to be a two. I kinda had a bout with burnout there, but i took sometime off and now it's all good. Anyhow, I have moved to Texas for a little while and I have a friend who can get me TTokkyo's Boldenon 200 and Stanazollic by Impel (sp?). I tried doing clen to lean up, but it wasn't happening, it made me sick. I'm still around 10 %, but I want to do a light cycle to get me at mr. clean status. Any suggestions from you all? I don't know that I should follow the recomended (from a friend) 500/week of the boldenon for 5 weeks. I've seen winny do some great stuff for freinds of mine, which would you recomend? How bout my tour performance, and watch out for my buddy Ludo.
rolfo
Hey all, long time no post. I'm still watching and learning from you all. Racing's been great, i have one good win in the bag and i have enough points to be a two. I kinda had a bout with burnout there, but i took sometime off and now it's all good. Anyhow, I have moved to Texas for a little while and I have a friend who can get me TTokkyo's Boldenon 200 and Stanazollic by Impel (sp?). I tried doing clen to lean up, but it wasn't happening, it made me sick. I'm still around 10 %, but I want to do a light cycle to get me at mr. clean status. Any suggestions from you all? I don't know that I should follow the recomended (from a friend) 500/week of the boldenon for 5 weeks. I've seen winny do some great stuff for freinds of mine, which would you recomend? How bout my tour performance, and watch out for my buddy Ludo.
rolfo
If your body doesnt put on muslce tissue with AS use then go with the EQ.
dieting
1. get diet str8 first!!!!!!!!
2. ephed,caffeine,aspirin + yohimbe, tyramine
dont like the anxiety like effects of ephed then drop it.
just do caffeine,yohimbe,tyramine.
light dose of GH does wonders for fat loss
dieting
1. get diet str8 first!!!!!!!!
2. ephed,caffeine,aspirin + yohimbe, tyramine
dont like the anxiety like effects of ephed then drop it.
just do caffeine,yohimbe,tyramine.
light dose of GH does wonders for fat loss
PursuitOfShredded
New member
Hey guys!
I've been in fitness forever. I own a personal training studio in Tampa. I just started getting into triathlons. I have a lonnnnng way to go in that I haven't been swimming in a long time (have a stroke lesson on Tuesday - no jokes, please
) AND to be really competitive, I have about 15 lbs to lose. I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs./9% bf or so (I gain muscle and fat REALLY easily). I'm currently doing morning cardio and taking NYC, a vit/mineral supplement, and vit C.
That's it for now. I'm researching training schedules and will post soon what mine will be for critique.
Glad to see all of you here!
POShredded
I've been in fitness forever. I own a personal training studio in Tampa. I just started getting into triathlons. I have a lonnnnng way to go in that I haven't been swimming in a long time (have a stroke lesson on Tuesday - no jokes, please
) AND to be really competitive, I have about 15 lbs to lose. I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs./9% bf or so (I gain muscle and fat REALLY easily). I'm currently doing morning cardio and taking NYC, a vit/mineral supplement, and vit C.That's it for now. I'm researching training schedules and will post soon what mine will be for critique.
Glad to see all of you here!
POShredded
celica
New member
go to www.phytin.com ...........this stuff works wonders for crit levels .....tons of endurace
fhg43
New member
Okay enduro boys
rolfaldag, triguy, road kill, oneradtec, woje3, badmofo24, runner, celica, rider, idanimal
Lets get a midseason report!
I am a little bummed. Suffered from severe burnout in June. Makes sense I was tettering on the edge of overtraining this spring. However went to EnduroMecca (Boulder, CO) for a few weeks and recharged my batteries. I have some races left and am hoping to due well. I am going to take a supplement break soon. My buddy told me even if I am just taking lots of vitamins and creatine etc... that can be hard on the liver and I should give myself some time to clean out.
I have had some great luck with inj B12 and supplemental iron. I'm not going to stop that. HAve really worked hard on cleaning up my diet and educating myself on nutrition this summer and hopefully it will pay off this offseason.
How has stuff gone for everyone else?
FHG
rolfaldag, triguy, road kill, oneradtec, woje3, badmofo24, runner, celica, rider, idanimal
Lets get a midseason report!
I am a little bummed. Suffered from severe burnout in June. Makes sense I was tettering on the edge of overtraining this spring. However went to EnduroMecca (Boulder, CO) for a few weeks and recharged my batteries. I have some races left and am hoping to due well. I am going to take a supplement break soon. My buddy told me even if I am just taking lots of vitamins and creatine etc... that can be hard on the liver and I should give myself some time to clean out.
I have had some great luck with inj B12 and supplemental iron. I'm not going to stop that. HAve really worked hard on cleaning up my diet and educating myself on nutrition this summer and hopefully it will pay off this offseason.
How has stuff gone for everyone else?
FHG
A
Animal
Guest
I won a national championship,distircts, midwest championship, which was the fastest race on that track.
I was in COL Springs last week???????
ANIMAL, where you there for the masters track nationals??????? last week aug 17th i think? I was there for a CTS triathlon camp.
Season report:
must periodize "hypoxic tent"
got my swimming faster 100 meters/1:20 (not bad for just learning last year & coming from 220 ,7% to 175 7%)
still trying to see if a heavy androgen(halo)aid endurance athletes
did 500 meter lake swim, 10 mile bike, 3 mile run- 58 min. My first under an HR sprint race.
definately learned alot on how food effects neurotransmitters. EX: I would sometimes eat too much b4 a workout & then et sleepy (was thinking this sleepiness was overtraining) not realizing the large meal gave a large insulin response then a boost in seratonin then sleepiness.
FHG. nice to hear from ya. keep up the hard work, but be sure to take a break! all work & no play makes jack a dull boy!
animal!!!!!! way to kick ass!!!!!! keep it up! good to see someone succeding thru just plain damn hard work! (some ol posts made it seem like your genetics werent that good. low vo2,etc)
ANIMAL, where you there for the masters track nationals??????? last week aug 17th i think? I was there for a CTS triathlon camp.
Season report:
must periodize "hypoxic tent"
got my swimming faster 100 meters/1:20 (not bad for just learning last year & coming from 220 ,7% to 175 7%)
still trying to see if a heavy androgen(halo)aid endurance athletes
did 500 meter lake swim, 10 mile bike, 3 mile run- 58 min. My first under an HR sprint race.
definately learned alot on how food effects neurotransmitters. EX: I would sometimes eat too much b4 a workout & then et sleepy (was thinking this sleepiness was overtraining) not realizing the large meal gave a large insulin response then a boost in seratonin then sleepiness.
FHG. nice to hear from ya. keep up the hard work, but be sure to take a break! all work & no play makes jack a dull boy!
animal!!!!!! way to kick ass!!!!!! keep it up! good to see someone succeding thru just plain damn hard work! (some ol posts made it seem like your genetics werent that good. low vo2,etc)
fhg43
New member
Re: I was in COL Springs last week???????
FHG
Expand on this a little-I am very interested in using a hypoxic tent?triguy said:
I did a 40K TT under :53 min recently-that hurt. I felt like a motorcycle!
I did take a break and the results started to come. I've been pretty successful since my break. Gettin fat though-hard to say no to the yummy food late in the season!!!
FHG
whut up!!!!!!!!
Cant wait for base training!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.hypoxico.com they got alot of technical info.
In a nut shell it tricks your body into producing more RBC's due to the low oxygen in the tent!
how are you handling your winter season? weights, no weights, all low zone1 zone 2 stuff or do you get your hR high?, etc.
Im just now having my caoch do my program ill post it.
40k tt 53!!!!! way to go! did 2o miles in 60 min after 1/2 mile swim in a tri recently. Im lookin to go under 25 min in 10 m TT & under 55 in a 40 k tt this winter. keep ya posted
Cant wait for base training!!!!!!!!!!!!
www.hypoxico.com they got alot of technical info.
In a nut shell it tricks your body into producing more RBC's due to the low oxygen in the tent!
how are you handling your winter season? weights, no weights, all low zone1 zone 2 stuff or do you get your hR high?, etc.
Im just now having my caoch do my program ill post it.
40k tt 53!!!!! way to go! did 2o miles in 60 min after 1/2 mile swim in a tri recently. Im lookin to go under 25 min in 10 m TT & under 55 in a 40 k tt this winter. keep ya posted
ahh back home so now I've got easy acess to a computer so ill be back posting again on this site. Season report, my season went alright, I just got back from europe where I had some of my best races of the year. Part of that had to do with the fact I wasent working for anyone else! what else is new, well I have been having a little trouble breathing (during races) for the past few years and I never thought anything of it, figured it was just what happned when you race. I finally mentioned it to the doc. and he ran a few tests and sure enough Ive got asthma, so he put me on Advair and I have to say it has done wonders for my racing, anyone out there w/ even the slightest case of asthma should really push their doc to put them on it. FHG- damn man, 53min 40k TT, thats no joke! you were flying!! check your e-mail from this site, ill send you somethin I think you might be interested in. adios
rider
rider
rider come on bro share with evryone!......
fhg. hypoxic enviroment is a stress on the body, hence you must periodize it like a training program.
during the my base/winter training i'll keep it at low altitude(6,000ft instead of 9,000) but use it evrynight & during naps. 1 full day off. kinda like my training, low intensity but long distance.
answer your ques?
fhg. hypoxic enviroment is a stress on the body, hence you must periodize it like a training program.
during the my base/winter training i'll keep it at low altitude(6,000ft instead of 9,000) but use it evrynight & during naps. 1 full day off. kinda like my training, low intensity but long distance.
answer your ques?
alto2lab
triguy-
I was just asking FHG about a few new vitamins I have heard of, nothing big. anyway, sounds like you have that tent dialed, i've never heard of people periodizing it like that. Most folks i have spoken with said they started at 6000 to get used to it and slowly built to 9-12 and just keep it there all year and sleep in it every night. But it does make sense to periodize it because im sure it is quite a stress. My team was looking into getting this thing www.alto2lab.com but we never did, anyone heard of it? good or bad results?? thanks
rider
triguy-
I was just asking FHG about a few new vitamins I have heard of, nothing big. anyway, sounds like you have that tent dialed, i've never heard of people periodizing it like that. Most folks i have spoken with said they started at 6000 to get used to it and slowly built to 9-12 and just keep it there all year and sleep in it every night. But it does make sense to periodize it because im sure it is quite a stress. My team was looking into getting this thing www.alto2lab.com but we never did, anyone heard of it? good or bad results?? thanks
rider
Lets keep this going guys!!!!!!!
havent heard about that co. I'd go with hypoxico.com.
friends winter base program:
1 androderm patch a day. "keep test levels even hopefully by an evryday hit "patch". "
50 mgs proviron keep shbg levels low
25 mgs oral win keep shbg levels low
25 aromasin keep estro levels low from test.
reason? increased recovery .
from diet low in protein and high volume of aerobic traing + decreased anabolism from hypoxic tent should keep muscle growth very limited!
then EPO starting in april nice hypothetcial program?
havent heard about that co. I'd go with hypoxico.com.
friends winter base program:
1 androderm patch a day. "keep test levels even hopefully by an evryday hit "patch". "
50 mgs proviron keep shbg levels low
25 mgs oral win keep shbg levels low
25 aromasin keep estro levels low from test.
reason? increased recovery .
from diet low in protein and high volume of aerobic traing + decreased anabolism from hypoxic tent should keep muscle growth very limited!
then EPO starting in april
nice hypothetcial program?Taken from "endurancelist" yahoo group
dr. misner from e-caps comments. give credit where credit is due. Even tho there Aholes over at ecapsHello Pat,
Take these as comments from one who [as an older athlete] is using
alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine for enhancing mitochondria
energy efficiency. I have noticed sufficient though subtle positive
changes in mental energy, physical energy, and especially recovery
since I have been using both of these supplements 7.5 months now. We
endurance athletes require more nutrient and micronutrient than do
sedentary folks. We take these substrates to replace them before they
become depleted. The food supply does not provide the micronutrients
in volume to meet expense in extreme endurance athletes. Vitamins and
Mineral substrates are typically not viewed as ergogenic or
performance-enhancing. When they become depleted however, performance
inhibition predictably results. When muscle mitochondria cells are
oppressed, super-stressed, or suffer pathological deterioration,
adding alpha-Lipoic Acid with either aceytl or l-carnitine may result
in resolving the disorder. The test to determine Carnitine-ALA's
donation is to perform a washout [stop taking for 30 days peak
training], then do a time trial on a course in which an established a
personal best while using both. If the washout trial does not equal
or exceed fastest time, then I agree the cost may not justify the
expense. Research in human subjects has not conclusively agreed that
alpha Lipoic Acid, which regenerates antioxidants in both fatty and
water tissues, and L-Carnitine, active in mitochondria energy
metabolism during exercise, are ergogenic or simply required
nutrients for mitochondria health resulting in energy efficiency. I
have taken the liberty to share some reports from the literature for
your review. Like you, I am paying for these supplements out of
pocket. Alpha Lipoic Acid is presently a part of my permanent
supplement protocol. I have taken all 5 forms of Carnitine, and, like
you, I could not tell the difference when taking it or when not in
terms of performance. I was late this year taking the time required
to get fit due to circumstances. Since February, I have been taking
both ALA and Acetyl L-Carnitine. In September, after 7th months dose,
I rode a timed 90-mile course 51 minutes faster than last year. Was
it the ALA and Acetyl L-Carnitine? I do not know. But this I do know,
I am a year older [62 not 61]...which is opposes predicted
expectation. Steve Born has been using this combination this year,
though he has always used a Carnitine supplement during extreme
training stress. I think he may be convinced of a performance-
enhancing adjunct, direct or indirect.
Juvenon collected anecdotal evidence from 50 human subjects @:
http://www.juvenon.com/html/Trials.html
http://www.juvenon.com/html/Trials_EnergyStudy.html
Here is a case study that was reported by Barbiroli B, Medori R,
Tritschler HJ, Klopstock T, Seibel P, Reichmann H, Iotti S, Lodi R,
Zaniol P. in J Neurol. 1995 Jul;242(7):472-7.
Lipoic (thioctic) acid increases brain energy availability and
skeletal muscle performance as shown by in vivo 31P-MRS in a patient
with mitochondrial cytopathy.
"A woman affected by chronic progressive external ophthalmoplegia and
muscle mitochondrial DNA deletion was studied by phosphorus magnetic
resonance spectroscopy (31P-MRS) prior to and after 1 and 7 months of
treatment with oral lipoic acid. Before treatment a decreased
phosphocreatine (PCr) content was found in the occipital lobes,
accompanied by normal inorganic phosphate (Pi) level and cytosolic
pH. Based on these findings, we found a high cytosolic adenosine
diphosphate concentration [ADP] and high relative rate of energy
metabolism together with a low phosphorylation potential. Muscle MRS
showed an abnormal work-energy cost transfer function and a low rate
of PCr recovery during the post-exercise period. All of these
findings indicated a deficit of mitochondrial function in both brain
and muscle. Treatment with 600 mg lipoic acid daily for 1 month
resulted in a 55% increase of brain [PCr], 72% increase of
phosphorylation potential, and a decrease of calculated [ADP] and
rate of energy metabolism. After 7 months of treatment MRS data and
mitochondrial function had improved further. Treatment with lipoate
also led to a 64% increase in the initial slope of the work-energy
cost transfer function in the working calf muscle and worsened the
rate of PCr resynthesis during recovery. The patient reported
subjective improvement of general conditions and muscle performance
after therapy. Our results indicate that treatment with lipoate
caused a relevant increase in levels of energy available in brain and
skeletal muscle during exercise."
L-CARNITINE RESULTS IN SMALL [INSIGNIFICANT] INCREASES IN VO2 MAX
Excerpts from Wachter S, Vogt M, Kreis R, Boesch C, Bigler P,
Hoppeler H, Krahenbuhl S., wrote in their paper, Long-term
administration of L-carnitine to humans: effect on skeletal muscle
carnitine content and physical performance. Clin Chim Acta. 2002
Apr;318(1-2):51-61, described a small increase in VO2 Max in humans
using a large dose of L-Carnitine:
"Eight healthy male adults were treated with 2 x 2 g of L-carnitine
per day for 3 months. Muscle biopsies and exercise tests were
performed before, immediately after, and 2 months after the
treatment. Exercise tests were performed using a bicycle ergometer
for 10 min at 20%, 40%, and 60% of the individual maximal workload (P
(max)), respectively, until exhaustion. At submaximal intensities,
the only difference to the pretreatment values was a 5% increase in
VO2 at 20% and 40% of P(max) 2 months after the cessation of the
treatment. The total carnitine content in the skeletal muscle was
4.10 micromol/g before, 4.79 micromol/g immediately after, and 4.19
micromol/g wet weight 2 months after the treatment (no significant
difference)." I am willing to accept a +5% increase in VO2 Max at any
speed...
Gomes & Tirapegui summarized in Arch Latinoam Nutr 2000 Dec;50(4):317-
29 that: "Carnitine might probably improve the aerobic capacity by
stimulating lipid oxidation on muscle cells during long term
exercise..."
L-CARNITINE DOSE = BETTER RECOVERY
Volek JS, Kraemer WJ, Rubin MR, Gomez AL, Ratamess NA, Gaynor P.
reported that L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably
affects markers of recovery from exercise stress, in
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Feb;282(2):E474-82.
"Exercise-induced increases in plasma malondialdehyde returned to
resting values sooner during LCLT compared with placebo. The amount
of muscle disruption from MRI scans during LCLT was 41-45% of the
placebo area. These data indicate that LCLT supplementation is
effective in assisting recovery from high-repetition squat exercise."
Plasma Malondealdehyde is a measure of free radical excess, a major
factor in premature fatigue and prolonged recovery.
I think it takes some people only a month or two to notice the
difference, while others of us it may take 6-7 months to tell. It
appears to me that the more extreme the energy expense, the greater
the impact from use of these mitochondrial metabolites. For sure,
someone like Steve Born who is training at 70% VO2 Max + for 500 +
miles per week is going to derive more benefits from someone who is
only training half that amount or less. The number of mitochondria
cells in muscles that have been stress exercised do increase in
number and in enzyme stores proportionate to the type, length, and
intensity of energy demand, which leads me to conclude that putting
more exogenous substrates in a repletion route will be advantageous
for a 14 week training-to-peak performance.
--- In endurancelist@y..., Patkilroy@a... wrote:
> Are any of the older members on this list using acetyl-L-carnitine
and alpha-lipoic acid as suggested in a study brought to our
attention by Dr.
> Bill? Have any of you noticed a difference in your athletic
performance or
> otherwise?
I take vitamins (PICs for the last year) and do not notice a
difference and
> don't expect to. On the other hand, if I miss my dose of R Caps
and E Caps
> before my Saturday fast club rides, I notice a lessening of
performance.
> Thus I keep taking them.
> I'm finding it hard to justify the cost of acetyl-L-carnitine and
> alpha-lipoic acid without noticing a physiological change or having
peer
> review published studies on humans, rather than lab rats.
> Patrick
dr. misner from e-caps comments. give credit where credit is due. Even tho there Aholes over at ecapsHello Pat,
Take these as comments from one who [as an older athlete] is using
alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine for enhancing mitochondria
energy efficiency. I have noticed sufficient though subtle positive
changes in mental energy, physical energy, and especially recovery
since I have been using both of these supplements 7.5 months now. We
endurance athletes require more nutrient and micronutrient than do
sedentary folks. We take these substrates to replace them before they
become depleted. The food supply does not provide the micronutrients
in volume to meet expense in extreme endurance athletes. Vitamins and
Mineral substrates are typically not viewed as ergogenic or
performance-enhancing. When they become depleted however, performance
inhibition predictably results. When muscle mitochondria cells are
oppressed, super-stressed, or suffer pathological deterioration,
adding alpha-Lipoic Acid with either aceytl or l-carnitine may result
in resolving the disorder. The test to determine Carnitine-ALA's
donation is to perform a washout [stop taking for 30 days peak
training], then do a time trial on a course in which an established a
personal best while using both. If the washout trial does not equal
or exceed fastest time, then I agree the cost may not justify the
expense. Research in human subjects has not conclusively agreed that
alpha Lipoic Acid, which regenerates antioxidants in both fatty and
water tissues, and L-Carnitine, active in mitochondria energy
metabolism during exercise, are ergogenic or simply required
nutrients for mitochondria health resulting in energy efficiency. I
have taken the liberty to share some reports from the literature for
your review. Like you, I am paying for these supplements out of
pocket. Alpha Lipoic Acid is presently a part of my permanent
supplement protocol. I have taken all 5 forms of Carnitine, and, like
you, I could not tell the difference when taking it or when not in
terms of performance. I was late this year taking the time required
to get fit due to circumstances. Since February, I have been taking
both ALA and Acetyl L-Carnitine. In September, after 7th months dose,
I rode a timed 90-mile course 51 minutes faster than last year. Was
it the ALA and Acetyl L-Carnitine? I do not know. But this I do know,
I am a year older [62 not 61]...which is opposes predicted
expectation. Steve Born has been using this combination this year,
though he has always used a Carnitine supplement during extreme
training stress. I think he may be convinced of a performance-
enhancing adjunct, direct or indirect.
Juvenon collected anecdotal evidence from 50 human subjects @:
http://www.juvenon.com/html/Trials.html
http://www.juvenon.com/html/Trials_EnergyStudy.html
Here is a case study that was reported by Barbiroli B, Medori R,
Tritschler HJ, Klopstock T, Seibel P, Reichmann H, Iotti S, Lodi R,
Zaniol P. in J Neurol. 1995 Jul;242(7):472-7.
Lipoic (thioctic) acid increases brain energy availability and
skeletal muscle performance as shown by in vivo 31P-MRS in a patient
with mitochondrial cytopathy.
"A woman affected by chronic progressive external ophthalmoplegia and
muscle mitochondrial DNA deletion was studied by phosphorus magnetic
resonance spectroscopy (31P-MRS) prior to and after 1 and 7 months of
treatment with oral lipoic acid. Before treatment a decreased
phosphocreatine (PCr) content was found in the occipital lobes,
accompanied by normal inorganic phosphate (Pi) level and cytosolic
pH. Based on these findings, we found a high cytosolic adenosine
diphosphate concentration [ADP] and high relative rate of energy
metabolism together with a low phosphorylation potential. Muscle MRS
showed an abnormal work-energy cost transfer function and a low rate
of PCr recovery during the post-exercise period. All of these
findings indicated a deficit of mitochondrial function in both brain
and muscle. Treatment with 600 mg lipoic acid daily for 1 month
resulted in a 55% increase of brain [PCr], 72% increase of
phosphorylation potential, and a decrease of calculated [ADP] and
rate of energy metabolism. After 7 months of treatment MRS data and
mitochondrial function had improved further. Treatment with lipoate
also led to a 64% increase in the initial slope of the work-energy
cost transfer function in the working calf muscle and worsened the
rate of PCr resynthesis during recovery. The patient reported
subjective improvement of general conditions and muscle performance
after therapy. Our results indicate that treatment with lipoate
caused a relevant increase in levels of energy available in brain and
skeletal muscle during exercise."
L-CARNITINE RESULTS IN SMALL [INSIGNIFICANT] INCREASES IN VO2 MAX
Excerpts from Wachter S, Vogt M, Kreis R, Boesch C, Bigler P,
Hoppeler H, Krahenbuhl S., wrote in their paper, Long-term
administration of L-carnitine to humans: effect on skeletal muscle
carnitine content and physical performance. Clin Chim Acta. 2002
Apr;318(1-2):51-61, described a small increase in VO2 Max in humans
using a large dose of L-Carnitine:
"Eight healthy male adults were treated with 2 x 2 g of L-carnitine
per day for 3 months. Muscle biopsies and exercise tests were
performed before, immediately after, and 2 months after the
treatment. Exercise tests were performed using a bicycle ergometer
for 10 min at 20%, 40%, and 60% of the individual maximal workload (P
(max)), respectively, until exhaustion. At submaximal intensities,
the only difference to the pretreatment values was a 5% increase in
VO2 at 20% and 40% of P(max) 2 months after the cessation of the
treatment. The total carnitine content in the skeletal muscle was
4.10 micromol/g before, 4.79 micromol/g immediately after, and 4.19
micromol/g wet weight 2 months after the treatment (no significant
difference)." I am willing to accept a +5% increase in VO2 Max at any
speed...
Gomes & Tirapegui summarized in Arch Latinoam Nutr 2000 Dec;50(4):317-
29 that: "Carnitine might probably improve the aerobic capacity by
stimulating lipid oxidation on muscle cells during long term
exercise..."
L-CARNITINE DOSE = BETTER RECOVERY
Volek JS, Kraemer WJ, Rubin MR, Gomez AL, Ratamess NA, Gaynor P.
reported that L-Carnitine L-tartrate supplementation favorably
affects markers of recovery from exercise stress, in
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Feb;282(2):E474-82.
"Exercise-induced increases in plasma malondialdehyde returned to
resting values sooner during LCLT compared with placebo. The amount
of muscle disruption from MRI scans during LCLT was 41-45% of the
placebo area. These data indicate that LCLT supplementation is
effective in assisting recovery from high-repetition squat exercise."
Plasma Malondealdehyde is a measure of free radical excess, a major
factor in premature fatigue and prolonged recovery.
I think it takes some people only a month or two to notice the
difference, while others of us it may take 6-7 months to tell. It
appears to me that the more extreme the energy expense, the greater
the impact from use of these mitochondrial metabolites. For sure,
someone like Steve Born who is training at 70% VO2 Max + for 500 +
miles per week is going to derive more benefits from someone who is
only training half that amount or less. The number of mitochondria
cells in muscles that have been stress exercised do increase in
number and in enzyme stores proportionate to the type, length, and
intensity of energy demand, which leads me to conclude that putting
more exogenous substrates in a repletion route will be advantageous
for a 14 week training-to-peak performance.
--- In endurancelist@y..., Patkilroy@a... wrote:
> Are any of the older members on this list using acetyl-L-carnitine
and alpha-lipoic acid as suggested in a study brought to our
attention by Dr.
> Bill? Have any of you noticed a difference in your athletic
performance or
> otherwise?
I take vitamins (PICs for the last year) and do not notice a
difference and
> don't expect to. On the other hand, if I miss my dose of R Caps
and E Caps
> before my Saturday fast club rides, I notice a lessening of
performance.
> Thus I keep taking them.
> I'm finding it hard to justify the cost of acetyl-L-carnitine and
> alpha-lipoic acid without noticing a physiological change or having
peer
> review published studies on humans, rather than lab rats.
> Patrick
tri guy-
yeh the hypoxico tent is really expensive, the alto2lab is much cheaper and you just put a tube in your mouth. If my manager does end up getting one for us ill make sure to let you know how it goes. As for the L-Carnitine I think you should just inject it like they do in europe, alot of euro pros are all over it, personally I havent tried it but am quite interested. Your winter schedule looks good, and EPO in April wont make you slow! keep us posted! take care and happy training
yeh the hypoxico tent is really expensive, the alto2lab is much cheaper and you just put a tube in your mouth. If my manager does end up getting one for us ill make sure to let you know how it goes. As for the L-Carnitine I think you should just inject it like they do in europe, alot of euro pros are all over it, personally I havent tried it but am quite interested. Your winter schedule looks good, and EPO in April wont make you slow! keep us posted! take care and happy training
I am STOKED to find some endurance athletes around here...I've got lots to tell!!!
I do road races, crits and stage races. Went on a cycle this fall to put on serious strength in the lower half.
Sustanon 500mg/wk
Deca 200mg/wk
Stanozolol/Winny
Gained 22 pounds in 6 weeks! Now it's time to shed the water, get ripped, and get back to my race weight at 155.
Wish I'd done winny/anavar/primobolan instead of the Sus. It's a real mass builder. Hope to God these thunder thighs shrink a bit before February!!!
Question: what will a cycle of Anavar or Winny do in-season where I'm only lifting 1x week for maintenance and racing/training like crazy? Recovery bump? Advise...
I do road races, crits and stage races. Went on a cycle this fall to put on serious strength in the lower half.
Sustanon 500mg/wk
Deca 200mg/wk
Stanozolol/Winny
Gained 22 pounds in 6 weeks! Now it's time to shed the water, get ripped, and get back to my race weight at 155.
Wish I'd done winny/anavar/primobolan instead of the Sus. It's a real mass builder. Hope to God these thunder thighs shrink a bit before February!!!
Question: what will a cycle of Anavar or Winny do in-season where I'm only lifting 1x week for maintenance and racing/training like crazy? Recovery bump? Advise...
fat loss with steroids
I found this article on Fitnessboard.com Im not sure who acutally wrote it. I thought some of you might be interested, it's ment for body builders but I think we can learn a few things from it as well.
We all know how to diet, right? You decrease your fat or your carbohydrates, you add in some cardiovascular training, and debit five hundred calories per day. Then at the end of the year you will have lost 52 pounds of fat and life will be wonderful. Blowjob! I think we all stopped believing that about the same time we found out that Joes Anabolic Megapacks were not going to pack on the pounds a la Dorian Yates.
It constantly amazes me easy weight-loss could be, with the proper assistance from doctors and pharmacies. Is it any wonder that Americans spend millions on diet books, herbal diet pills, hypnosis, etc when the answers to fast easy weight-loss are running around so rampantly on the internet? Could it be because expensive diet drugs like Zenical or Redux have such wonderful profit margins?
Whatever the reason, the purpose of this article is to outline some of the best diet drugs out there and give a few pointers on how to use them properly. This article is aimed towards those men and women who have already decided to self-medicate themselves, this is not intended for the average person who buys into the current medical party line. For those of you who have already pierced the veil and seen into the greater world of performance pharmacology, this article is for you.
ANABOLIC STEROIDS
What! Silence in the room, please! Does anyone doubt that steroids are some of the most potent diet drugs in the world? If you have been into fitness for any length of time you know that it doesn matter what the scale reads, its what the calipers say. Hopefully no one, except anorexic dancers and models, think that just by weighing a certain weight you will look good.
Dieting causes both fat and muscle loss, this is a universal truth. The trick is to loss the most fat and the least muscle. This is where our little anabolic friends come in. Steroids act powerfully against the process of catabolism; the process in which your body breaks down existing muscle mass for immediate energy.
Therefor, most male dieters who are willing to use drugs should use some sort of steroid therapy. I would recommend testosterone at a moderately high dosage and some deca-durabolin or anavar. Yes, deca-durabolin will cause water retention, as will the testosterone, but when you come off the cycle the water will fall off. The most important thing to remember here is that you want the strongest androgen base you can afford and tolerate so that you lose as little muscle as possible. If you are concerned with holding water and have access to winstrol, trenbolone acetate, and primobolan these drugs could be used. However, this is not an article on contest prep, but rather getting yourself down to a maintainable low level of body fat. With this is mind it is best to disregard the water retention aspect of most drugs. Explicitly I would advocate weekly dosages of 500-1000 mg of testosterone per week (I would use a faster acting testosterone like propionate if I could, taken daily) along with 300-500 mg of deca-durabolin per week. Trenbolone could be used at dosages of 50-100 mg taken every other day.
T3 Thyroid Hormone
Listen, any caloric deficit will reduce thyroid output. The answer, as many have already written, is to trick your body by keeping your thyroid and thus your metabolism artificially high. The drug to use here is T3. T3 is the metabolically active form of thyroid hormone, T4 is the storage form; unless you have a serious T4 problem taking Synthroid (the trade name of T4) is not going to help you that much.
There are two approaches to using T3. One, outlined in Duchaines BodyOpus, involves keeping your metabolism at a high, but not unnaturally high, rate. Basically you are using the T3 to keep your metabolism to what it should be despite your low calories. You monitor your temperature and adjust it upwards with thyroid hormone. This is not my preferred method of using T3. Duchaine admits that maintaining this "optimal metabolic rate" with drugs is going to cause your natural thyroid axis to shut down, usually for about eight weeks.
Why then, if you are already going to have this shunted natural output, shouldn you use enough T3 to put you "over the top." To this end, T3 should be used for six week periods at dosages of between 75-100 mcg. I have just recently seen an email wherein someone talks about using 200 mcg of T3; apparently the "pros" he knows do this. Great, and I bet our compatriot weighs 160 pounds. Too much T3 is catabolic. You need to find balance, grasshopper and balance in this case is in the dosage range I recommended.
Cytomel works amazingly well for women too, but increased catabolism will be observed. If a woman is not going to use AS (and using a drug like deca durabolin is not going to turn them into some sort of monster) she would be better off using T3 as outlined in Duchaines book, just to keep ahead of the game. Dosages for women should be lower then those used by male athletes, I would start with 50 mcg per day (even that is considered high by some people) and work up slowly from there.
Fitness models live on T3 and clenbuterol because it means they can eat like crap and still look good. The temptation with this drug is too use it constantly to replace proper eating. Bad idea, ever wonder why fitness models have careers that last about two years. Thats about the longest a body can stand up to the cytomel, clenbuterol, and cocaine before it shuts down. Do not consider the cytomel a license to gorge yourself. The lower your calories the better the drug works. You can use cytomel to not get fat, but that is a very dangerous habit to get into.
Amphetamines
No one likes to remember that for the longest time anorectics were the best selling diet drug. A whole generation of homemakers had to go through withdrawal from their peppy diet pills which were nothing more then amphetamines. Amphetamines kill appetite, ever see a fat speed addict. They also make the user more motivated and more likely to exercise. Hell, pop 50 mg of ephedrine and see how much more tolerable the treadmill seems (yes, ephedrine is chemically akin to amphetamines)
The most powerful amphetamines are the illegal ones, cocaine and methamphetamines. Ironically it is probably easier to get access to these drugs then most steroid compounds or diet drugs mentioned in this article. The biggest problem with amphetamines is that they are addictive. I have never seen a sensible cocaine dosing schedule that permits weight-loss without addiction. The risk of addiction with less powerful drugs is not enough, in my book, to recommend against them. The stronger drugs are going to be more addictive, a milder drug like Tenuate is not going to addict as quickly. Still these drugs should be used in short spurts.
The second problem with amphetamines is that you just don eat. Great huh! No- you need to eat something to keep up muscle mass and also maintain some degree of thyroid function. The sensible solution. Use Tenuate with T3 and use an alarm clock to remind you to eat at least enough protein to maintain your level.
Ephedrine and Clenbuterol
Both of these compounds belong to the family of beta-adrenic receptor agonists. There are already numerous articles on these two drugs work and how to use them, so I will not delve deeply into the biochemistry of this drug family. Suffice it to say that both drugs increase the bodys metabolic rate substantially, maintain energy levels despite caloric deficit, and help to maintain muscle mass.. The key difference between Ephedrine and Clenbuterol is that clenbuterol has much more rapid receptor attenuation, it stops working more quickly. It is more powerful, but it doesn work for as long. In the final analysis, clenbuterol and ephedrine should be used together. I would propose two weeks of clenbuterol, then two weeks of ephedrine (with the standard addition of caffeine and aspirin), then back to the clenbuterol. Throughout this whole time I would be using T3; studies show that some of the diminishing returns from Clenbuterol are due to the fact that "it burns up T3".
An interesting note about dosing schedules for these two drugs. Clenbuterol has a very long period of action and a long half-life. The key reason clenbuterol is not used in the United States is that the drug has a period of action of about 10 hours, which is considered too long. Doctors prefer shorter acting drugs that require more frequent administration, which is why albuterol is prescribed in the United States. The half-life of clenbuterol in the body is also rather long, over 48 hours. This means that the commonly recommended method of taking clenbuterol, the two days on two days off split, is not effective. It is far better to adhere to a two weeks on two weeks off method as detailed later. Ephedrine has a period of action of around 6-8 hours, but caffeine extended the duration of this action.
DNP
Ahh, the current wonder drug, the rage of the "hardcore" body-building world. If only you could take (or survive) DNP you would transform your physique instantly. I am not out to demonize DNP, why should I? True, it is a poison and it can kill you quickly at dosages not too far removed from "therapeutic dosages" (technically, its LD-50, lethal dosage for fifty percent of its users, is not much greater then its targeted dosage range). DNP deserves your respect and your utmost care. This is not a drug that forgives mistakes. What is the worse that can happen if you take two extra anadrol pills in a day by accident…if this is not repeated, very little. With DNP the results could be death after unsuccessful attempts to bring down your core temperature with ice water enemas. So, my conclusions about DNP are pretty straightforward. Does it work? Yes. Is it more dangerous then the other drugs you are used to using? Yes. Should the average person looking to get lean for the beach use it (even if they are a heavy AAS user)? No.
So lets put all this together. We have three classes of drugs that have been briefly presented.
Anti-Catabolics (steroids)
Hunger Suppressants (tenuate dospan)
Metabolic Rate Stimulators (Clenbuterol, Ephedrine, Cytomel, DNP)
But none of this is going to do you much good if you are eating like a hog. Losing fat involves dieting. The above drugs can be used to eat like crap and stay looking good, but the purpose of this article is not to encourage sloppy habits that are covered up with habitual drug use. Whatever style of dieting you use, be it high carb or low carb, keep the calories low and the protein high. How low should the calories be. Throw out all that you think you know about deficit caloric dieting. With the T3 being used as I advocate you only need to be concerned with keeping your protein high, and total calories very low, around 12 calories per pound of mass. I would keep protein at 2 grams per pound of weight.
Most of the drugs mentioned above over in action, tenuate is both a metabolic rate stimulator and a hunger suppressant. I would propose that for man dieting to keep as much mass as possible the following program be adopted.
Week 1: Begin use of heavy androgen therapy, preferably starting with a strong base of testosterone. Decadurabolin or primobolan may be used as well.
Week 2: Continue steroid dosages, but add in 75 mcg of cytomel per day. Begin using clenbuterol at 100 mcg per day.
Week 3: Same as week 2 but increase cytomel to 100 mcg per day. Increase clenbuterol to 120 mcg per day.
Week 4: Stop using clenbuterol. Use ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin (and yohimbine hydrochloride at 5-10 mgs three times daily if you can tolerate it. Yohimbine is something of an anti-diuretic so don worry about the water retention; the drugs fat burning properties out-weight the water gain) ) three times a day (standard ECA stack dosages). Take one tenuate dospan immediately upon waking up.
Week 5: continue as in week 4
Week 6: Stop using ECA and tenuate, go back to clenbuterol at 120 mcg per day. T3 stays at 100 mcgs per day
Week 7: Same as week 6, only use 140 mcg of clenbuterol and 75 mcg of cytomel.
Week 8: All steroids stop, all T3 stops. Resume ECA stack. Do not let your calories get out of control, your metabolism will be sluggish in this recovery period. The ECA should help blunt the hunger, but do not let your mentality change. You are not out of the woods yet and you shouldn begin the celebratory feast. Manage your food for another 6 weeks, at which point your thyroid levels should be back to normal and you will have a true perspective on what you have accomplished.
Wait at least 8 weeks and repeat.
Now I am going to bring up the single biggest problem facing dieters and that is…their psyche. You have spent years backing on all this muscle and the though of losing even an ounce is like a punch in the kidneys (hey…your kidneys are already overworked anyway). So what if you have a little flab, a little gut. By god you can bench 350 pounds for reps, you don need a six pack. Girls like bigger guys, they understand that power comes from the gut! Sure buddy…and I got these magic anabolic beans. Realistically what happens is this. The diet begins and you begin to drop weight. The lack of calories and carbohydrates makes your muscles appear flat and smaller. Your strength is way down, despite the stimulants. You begin to imagine that you are wasting away. So what happens, you gorge yourself…you blow your diet and waste all the time and money you spent! So what can be done. Here are my recommendations for mentally preparing yourself for dieting.
Plan your diet and drug use with a friend. It never fails that people get desperate and crazy when they start using drugs of any kind. You think you should bump up the dosages, add a new drug, stay on a month longer. Why?-because anxiety and insecurity are the mental demons of bodybuilding. Your buddy will help keep you to the plan which you decided on while not under diet induced psychosis.
Take some pictures before you start and get your weight and body-fat determined. This will help provide you with solace as you see that the weight drop is mostly fat and not your hard earned muscle. Clothing lies as much as the scale. This is also where the role of an observer comes in. Your buddies can help you assess your progress and honestly keep track of where you stand. Tape measure yourself and get a good idea of your vital statistics. Your mentality should not be "after all this I still only have xx inch arms" it should be "after losing all this fat I still have xx inch arms".
Clear your schedule. No business trips, no spring break, no necessary party. If you follow my diet advice your dieting period will be a brief 6 weeks. Its not to hard to forgo difficult social situations for this period of time. Once this cutting phase begins you need to commit to it.
Prepare your diet well in advance and purchase the protein powders, etc that you will need. Do not put yourself in the situation where you have no food at work and so YOU HAVE TO get a candy bar. I use MRPS while dieting to almost the exclusion of solid food. It is more expensive but its convenient and precise. This leads me to my next point. Count your damn calories. You will be surprised at how many calories are in the little cheat meals you thought no-one noticed. I would recommend that you use MRPs again because you will know exactly how many calories and how many grams of nutrients you are getting.
**** cheat days! We are not building your body for life here. If you are serious enough to undertake altering your metabolism with thyroid hormone and bolstering your body with anabolic steroids you sure as crap better have the fortitude to forgo a day of gorging yourself on junk-food. I am in favor of the occasional relaxing of the diet (but not for a whole day, rather a meal), but this does not mean through all principles out of the window. If a cheat meal is the difference between staying on the diet or going off, then have that cheat meal. But let it end there. If you are doing low carb, remember that the one cheat meal is going to more then likely bump you out of ketosis, so try to save your cheat meals for carbing-up days. I cannot stress this enough. You are radically improving your metabolic state, you are making sacrifices. Do not sabotage yourself. Avoid sources of temptation, banish junk food from your presence. Do whatever the hell you have to do so that for the next six weeks you can eat as close to perfect as possible and let the drugs (and your discipline) reward you.
I hate to sound like some sort of mainstream diet book pep talk, but the above mental preparations are as important as the drugs I discussed first in the article. Without understanding the mental pitfalls you face, you are ill-prepared to embark on any diet, much less one accompanied by heavy stimulant use. Trust me, the drugs will not increase your sense of well-being. They are designed to mimic adrenaline in the body, you will not usually feel perfectly at ease. That is why mental preparation is so important. Remember - do or do not…there is no try
I found this article on Fitnessboard.com Im not sure who acutally wrote it. I thought some of you might be interested, it's ment for body builders but I think we can learn a few things from it as well.
We all know how to diet, right? You decrease your fat or your carbohydrates, you add in some cardiovascular training, and debit five hundred calories per day. Then at the end of the year you will have lost 52 pounds of fat and life will be wonderful. Blowjob! I think we all stopped believing that about the same time we found out that Joes Anabolic Megapacks were not going to pack on the pounds a la Dorian Yates.
It constantly amazes me easy weight-loss could be, with the proper assistance from doctors and pharmacies. Is it any wonder that Americans spend millions on diet books, herbal diet pills, hypnosis, etc when the answers to fast easy weight-loss are running around so rampantly on the internet? Could it be because expensive diet drugs like Zenical or Redux have such wonderful profit margins?
Whatever the reason, the purpose of this article is to outline some of the best diet drugs out there and give a few pointers on how to use them properly. This article is aimed towards those men and women who have already decided to self-medicate themselves, this is not intended for the average person who buys into the current medical party line. For those of you who have already pierced the veil and seen into the greater world of performance pharmacology, this article is for you.
ANABOLIC STEROIDS
What! Silence in the room, please! Does anyone doubt that steroids are some of the most potent diet drugs in the world? If you have been into fitness for any length of time you know that it doesn matter what the scale reads, its what the calipers say. Hopefully no one, except anorexic dancers and models, think that just by weighing a certain weight you will look good.
Dieting causes both fat and muscle loss, this is a universal truth. The trick is to loss the most fat and the least muscle. This is where our little anabolic friends come in. Steroids act powerfully against the process of catabolism; the process in which your body breaks down existing muscle mass for immediate energy.
Therefor, most male dieters who are willing to use drugs should use some sort of steroid therapy. I would recommend testosterone at a moderately high dosage and some deca-durabolin or anavar. Yes, deca-durabolin will cause water retention, as will the testosterone, but when you come off the cycle the water will fall off. The most important thing to remember here is that you want the strongest androgen base you can afford and tolerate so that you lose as little muscle as possible. If you are concerned with holding water and have access to winstrol, trenbolone acetate, and primobolan these drugs could be used. However, this is not an article on contest prep, but rather getting yourself down to a maintainable low level of body fat. With this is mind it is best to disregard the water retention aspect of most drugs. Explicitly I would advocate weekly dosages of 500-1000 mg of testosterone per week (I would use a faster acting testosterone like propionate if I could, taken daily) along with 300-500 mg of deca-durabolin per week. Trenbolone could be used at dosages of 50-100 mg taken every other day.
T3 Thyroid Hormone
Listen, any caloric deficit will reduce thyroid output. The answer, as many have already written, is to trick your body by keeping your thyroid and thus your metabolism artificially high. The drug to use here is T3. T3 is the metabolically active form of thyroid hormone, T4 is the storage form; unless you have a serious T4 problem taking Synthroid (the trade name of T4) is not going to help you that much.
There are two approaches to using T3. One, outlined in Duchaines BodyOpus, involves keeping your metabolism at a high, but not unnaturally high, rate. Basically you are using the T3 to keep your metabolism to what it should be despite your low calories. You monitor your temperature and adjust it upwards with thyroid hormone. This is not my preferred method of using T3. Duchaine admits that maintaining this "optimal metabolic rate" with drugs is going to cause your natural thyroid axis to shut down, usually for about eight weeks.
Why then, if you are already going to have this shunted natural output, shouldn you use enough T3 to put you "over the top." To this end, T3 should be used for six week periods at dosages of between 75-100 mcg. I have just recently seen an email wherein someone talks about using 200 mcg of T3; apparently the "pros" he knows do this. Great, and I bet our compatriot weighs 160 pounds. Too much T3 is catabolic. You need to find balance, grasshopper and balance in this case is in the dosage range I recommended.
Cytomel works amazingly well for women too, but increased catabolism will be observed. If a woman is not going to use AS (and using a drug like deca durabolin is not going to turn them into some sort of monster) she would be better off using T3 as outlined in Duchaines book, just to keep ahead of the game. Dosages for women should be lower then those used by male athletes, I would start with 50 mcg per day (even that is considered high by some people) and work up slowly from there.
Fitness models live on T3 and clenbuterol because it means they can eat like crap and still look good. The temptation with this drug is too use it constantly to replace proper eating. Bad idea, ever wonder why fitness models have careers that last about two years. Thats about the longest a body can stand up to the cytomel, clenbuterol, and cocaine before it shuts down. Do not consider the cytomel a license to gorge yourself. The lower your calories the better the drug works. You can use cytomel to not get fat, but that is a very dangerous habit to get into.
Amphetamines
No one likes to remember that for the longest time anorectics were the best selling diet drug. A whole generation of homemakers had to go through withdrawal from their peppy diet pills which were nothing more then amphetamines. Amphetamines kill appetite, ever see a fat speed addict. They also make the user more motivated and more likely to exercise. Hell, pop 50 mg of ephedrine and see how much more tolerable the treadmill seems (yes, ephedrine is chemically akin to amphetamines)
The most powerful amphetamines are the illegal ones, cocaine and methamphetamines. Ironically it is probably easier to get access to these drugs then most steroid compounds or diet drugs mentioned in this article. The biggest problem with amphetamines is that they are addictive. I have never seen a sensible cocaine dosing schedule that permits weight-loss without addiction. The risk of addiction with less powerful drugs is not enough, in my book, to recommend against them. The stronger drugs are going to be more addictive, a milder drug like Tenuate is not going to addict as quickly. Still these drugs should be used in short spurts.
The second problem with amphetamines is that you just don eat. Great huh! No- you need to eat something to keep up muscle mass and also maintain some degree of thyroid function. The sensible solution. Use Tenuate with T3 and use an alarm clock to remind you to eat at least enough protein to maintain your level.
Ephedrine and Clenbuterol
Both of these compounds belong to the family of beta-adrenic receptor agonists. There are already numerous articles on these two drugs work and how to use them, so I will not delve deeply into the biochemistry of this drug family. Suffice it to say that both drugs increase the bodys metabolic rate substantially, maintain energy levels despite caloric deficit, and help to maintain muscle mass.. The key difference between Ephedrine and Clenbuterol is that clenbuterol has much more rapid receptor attenuation, it stops working more quickly. It is more powerful, but it doesn work for as long. In the final analysis, clenbuterol and ephedrine should be used together. I would propose two weeks of clenbuterol, then two weeks of ephedrine (with the standard addition of caffeine and aspirin), then back to the clenbuterol. Throughout this whole time I would be using T3; studies show that some of the diminishing returns from Clenbuterol are due to the fact that "it burns up T3".
An interesting note about dosing schedules for these two drugs. Clenbuterol has a very long period of action and a long half-life. The key reason clenbuterol is not used in the United States is that the drug has a period of action of about 10 hours, which is considered too long. Doctors prefer shorter acting drugs that require more frequent administration, which is why albuterol is prescribed in the United States. The half-life of clenbuterol in the body is also rather long, over 48 hours. This means that the commonly recommended method of taking clenbuterol, the two days on two days off split, is not effective. It is far better to adhere to a two weeks on two weeks off method as detailed later. Ephedrine has a period of action of around 6-8 hours, but caffeine extended the duration of this action.
DNP
Ahh, the current wonder drug, the rage of the "hardcore" body-building world. If only you could take (or survive) DNP you would transform your physique instantly. I am not out to demonize DNP, why should I? True, it is a poison and it can kill you quickly at dosages not too far removed from "therapeutic dosages" (technically, its LD-50, lethal dosage for fifty percent of its users, is not much greater then its targeted dosage range). DNP deserves your respect and your utmost care. This is not a drug that forgives mistakes. What is the worse that can happen if you take two extra anadrol pills in a day by accident…if this is not repeated, very little. With DNP the results could be death after unsuccessful attempts to bring down your core temperature with ice water enemas. So, my conclusions about DNP are pretty straightforward. Does it work? Yes. Is it more dangerous then the other drugs you are used to using? Yes. Should the average person looking to get lean for the beach use it (even if they are a heavy AAS user)? No.
So lets put all this together. We have three classes of drugs that have been briefly presented.
Anti-Catabolics (steroids)
Hunger Suppressants (tenuate dospan)
Metabolic Rate Stimulators (Clenbuterol, Ephedrine, Cytomel, DNP)
But none of this is going to do you much good if you are eating like a hog. Losing fat involves dieting. The above drugs can be used to eat like crap and stay looking good, but the purpose of this article is not to encourage sloppy habits that are covered up with habitual drug use. Whatever style of dieting you use, be it high carb or low carb, keep the calories low and the protein high. How low should the calories be. Throw out all that you think you know about deficit caloric dieting. With the T3 being used as I advocate you only need to be concerned with keeping your protein high, and total calories very low, around 12 calories per pound of mass. I would keep protein at 2 grams per pound of weight.
Most of the drugs mentioned above over in action, tenuate is both a metabolic rate stimulator and a hunger suppressant. I would propose that for man dieting to keep as much mass as possible the following program be adopted.
Week 1: Begin use of heavy androgen therapy, preferably starting with a strong base of testosterone. Decadurabolin or primobolan may be used as well.
Week 2: Continue steroid dosages, but add in 75 mcg of cytomel per day. Begin using clenbuterol at 100 mcg per day.
Week 3: Same as week 2 but increase cytomel to 100 mcg per day. Increase clenbuterol to 120 mcg per day.
Week 4: Stop using clenbuterol. Use ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin (and yohimbine hydrochloride at 5-10 mgs three times daily if you can tolerate it. Yohimbine is something of an anti-diuretic so don worry about the water retention; the drugs fat burning properties out-weight the water gain) ) three times a day (standard ECA stack dosages). Take one tenuate dospan immediately upon waking up.
Week 5: continue as in week 4
Week 6: Stop using ECA and tenuate, go back to clenbuterol at 120 mcg per day. T3 stays at 100 mcgs per day
Week 7: Same as week 6, only use 140 mcg of clenbuterol and 75 mcg of cytomel.
Week 8: All steroids stop, all T3 stops. Resume ECA stack. Do not let your calories get out of control, your metabolism will be sluggish in this recovery period. The ECA should help blunt the hunger, but do not let your mentality change. You are not out of the woods yet and you shouldn begin the celebratory feast. Manage your food for another 6 weeks, at which point your thyroid levels should be back to normal and you will have a true perspective on what you have accomplished.
Wait at least 8 weeks and repeat.
Now I am going to bring up the single biggest problem facing dieters and that is…their psyche. You have spent years backing on all this muscle and the though of losing even an ounce is like a punch in the kidneys (hey…your kidneys are already overworked anyway). So what if you have a little flab, a little gut. By god you can bench 350 pounds for reps, you don need a six pack. Girls like bigger guys, they understand that power comes from the gut! Sure buddy…and I got these magic anabolic beans. Realistically what happens is this. The diet begins and you begin to drop weight. The lack of calories and carbohydrates makes your muscles appear flat and smaller. Your strength is way down, despite the stimulants. You begin to imagine that you are wasting away. So what happens, you gorge yourself…you blow your diet and waste all the time and money you spent! So what can be done. Here are my recommendations for mentally preparing yourself for dieting.
Plan your diet and drug use with a friend. It never fails that people get desperate and crazy when they start using drugs of any kind. You think you should bump up the dosages, add a new drug, stay on a month longer. Why?-because anxiety and insecurity are the mental demons of bodybuilding. Your buddy will help keep you to the plan which you decided on while not under diet induced psychosis.
Take some pictures before you start and get your weight and body-fat determined. This will help provide you with solace as you see that the weight drop is mostly fat and not your hard earned muscle. Clothing lies as much as the scale. This is also where the role of an observer comes in. Your buddies can help you assess your progress and honestly keep track of where you stand. Tape measure yourself and get a good idea of your vital statistics. Your mentality should not be "after all this I still only have xx inch arms" it should be "after losing all this fat I still have xx inch arms".
Clear your schedule. No business trips, no spring break, no necessary party. If you follow my diet advice your dieting period will be a brief 6 weeks. Its not to hard to forgo difficult social situations for this period of time. Once this cutting phase begins you need to commit to it.
Prepare your diet well in advance and purchase the protein powders, etc that you will need. Do not put yourself in the situation where you have no food at work and so YOU HAVE TO get a candy bar. I use MRPS while dieting to almost the exclusion of solid food. It is more expensive but its convenient and precise. This leads me to my next point. Count your damn calories. You will be surprised at how many calories are in the little cheat meals you thought no-one noticed. I would recommend that you use MRPs again because you will know exactly how many calories and how many grams of nutrients you are getting.
**** cheat days! We are not building your body for life here. If you are serious enough to undertake altering your metabolism with thyroid hormone and bolstering your body with anabolic steroids you sure as crap better have the fortitude to forgo a day of gorging yourself on junk-food. I am in favor of the occasional relaxing of the diet (but not for a whole day, rather a meal), but this does not mean through all principles out of the window. If a cheat meal is the difference between staying on the diet or going off, then have that cheat meal. But let it end there. If you are doing low carb, remember that the one cheat meal is going to more then likely bump you out of ketosis, so try to save your cheat meals for carbing-up days. I cannot stress this enough. You are radically improving your metabolic state, you are making sacrifices. Do not sabotage yourself. Avoid sources of temptation, banish junk food from your presence. Do whatever the hell you have to do so that for the next six weeks you can eat as close to perfect as possible and let the drugs (and your discipline) reward you.
I hate to sound like some sort of mainstream diet book pep talk, but the above mental preparations are as important as the drugs I discussed first in the article. Without understanding the mental pitfalls you face, you are ill-prepared to embark on any diet, much less one accompanied by heavy stimulant use. Trust me, the drugs will not increase your sense of well-being. They are designed to mimic adrenaline in the body, you will not usually feel perfectly at ease. That is why mental preparation is so important. Remember - do or do not…there is no try
bike racer-
damn dude 22lbs in 6 weeks? why did you do a steriod cycle if you just want to get back down to your race weight of 155? and i hope you dont get drug tested in the next year and a half! im not too educated on anabolic steriods so i cant really say what a cycle of winny or anavar would do during the year, but most guys do hgh or a low dose test prop cycle in the winter and use different kinds of drugs during the year. what level of racing do you compete at? take care
rider
damn dude 22lbs in 6 weeks? why did you do a steriod cycle if you just want to get back down to your race weight of 155? and i hope you dont get drug tested in the next year and a half! im not too educated on anabolic steriods so i cant really say what a cycle of winny or anavar would do during the year, but most guys do hgh or a low dose test prop cycle in the winter and use different kinds of drugs during the year. what level of racing do you compete at? take care
rider
Rider
Got down to 150 at the end of the season. So ripped that you could see liver, kidneys and food moving through the digestive tract due to NO BODYFAT!!!! [a slight exaggeration]. Anyway, working in the weightroom to get huge strength (sprinting/jumps) for crits and sustained strength for long climbs. Want to put on net 5 lbs. of lower body muscle. I believe that will really help the crits/local road races... Proof will be in the pudding.
Hindsight 20/20, I would go with Anavar/Winny or some light combo. I do not enjoy feeling like a bloated water buffalo.
Cat IV, upgrade to 3 this upcoming season. Masters' races as well.
Got down to 150 at the end of the season. So ripped that you could see liver, kidneys and food moving through the digestive tract due to NO BODYFAT!!!! [a slight exaggeration]. Anyway, working in the weightroom to get huge strength (sprinting/jumps) for crits and sustained strength for long climbs. Want to put on net 5 lbs. of lower body muscle. I believe that will really help the crits/local road races... Proof will be in the pudding.
Hindsight 20/20, I would go with Anavar/Winny or some light combo. I do not enjoy feeling like a bloated water buffalo.
Cat IV, upgrade to 3 this upcoming season. Masters' races as well.
fhg43
New member
Re: Rider
Fuck! 22lbs! that will be bad for your climbing-I wouldn't want to haul an extra 22 around Redlands or Visalia. Trying to loose that much weight can be detrimental to your form. Your body could crap out on you midseason. Loosing a significant amount of weight too fast is very stressful for your body. So be careful, get rest and eat well.
Anavar and winny would be fine during the season, both will increase your hematocrit. Instead of lifting inseason just train more. You'll add muscle mass just by riding and using anabolics. I've heard winny can cause joint pain so be leery of that. Anavar is an all around good drug-however make sure you get good stuff like BTG. Supposedly there's lots of fake stuff floating around. Plan your cycle appropriately as the hormonal and (hcrit) crash a few weeks post cycle makes your form suck too. Good luck-I'll see you at the races-really I'll see you at the races!
FHG
Bikeracer said:
Fuck! 22lbs! that will be bad for your climbing-I wouldn't want to haul an extra 22 around Redlands or Visalia. Trying to loose that much weight can be detrimental to your form. Your body could crap out on you midseason. Loosing a significant amount of weight too fast is very stressful for your body. So be careful, get rest and eat well.
Anavar and winny would be fine during the season, both will increase your hematocrit. Instead of lifting inseason just train more. You'll add muscle mass just by riding and using anabolics. I've heard winny can cause joint pain so be leery of that. Anavar is an all around good drug-however make sure you get good stuff like BTG. Supposedly there's lots of fake stuff floating around. Plan your cycle appropriately as the hormonal and (hcrit) crash a few weeks post cycle makes your form suck too. Good luck-I'll see you at the races-really I'll see you at the races!
FHG
thanx fhg
started trainin hardcore beg of nov (seasons diffrent from Cycling)
looking for some energy but with out the anxiety/jitters!?
DMAE + memory formula by biochem minimal stack
dmae, nivalin,piracetam, memory formula super stack
friends diggin test gel- no debillitating pumps, highr HCT.
.....build a strong core! recently learned & FELT how important it is.
dont have any fitnes test results yet. just recently did base tests. In jan ill have some results that will show how progress is goin!
Definately feel better recovery with 50 degree baths after training (10 min lower legs, 10 min upper body)& alternating cold dips with hot jacuzzis really clears the waste out!
looking to upgrade to CAT 4 this year so maybe ill "ride past ya" this year!?
.....will also have post 2week blood work next fri. we'll see how the "burst cycles" are working & test gels effects on HCT.
anyone check out that product "carao" theres a big thread on elite about?
peace
T
started trainin hardcore beg of nov (seasons diffrent from Cycling)
looking for some energy but with out the anxiety/jitters!?
DMAE + memory formula by biochem minimal stack
dmae, nivalin,piracetam, memory formula super stack
friends diggin test gel- no debillitating pumps, highr HCT.
.....build a strong core! recently learned & FELT how important it is.
dont have any fitnes test results yet. just recently did base tests. In jan ill have some results that will show how progress is goin!
Definately feel better recovery with 50 degree baths after training (10 min lower legs, 10 min upper body)& alternating cold dips with hot jacuzzis really clears the waste out!
looking to upgrade to CAT 4 this year so maybe ill "ride past ya"
this year!?.....will also have post 2week blood work next fri. we'll see how the "burst cycles" are working & test gels effects on HCT.
anyone check out that product "carao" theres a big thread on elite about?
peace
T
fhg43
New member
Re: thanx fhg
What is this carao stuff? I keep hearing about it-need some info.
FHG
This is the bomb-My legs feel so much better when I do this! I just do the legs and alternate with the jacuzzi or a heating pad.triguy said:
Well, you have a couple more Cat's to go but I'm sure you'll get therelooking to upgrade to CAT 4 this year so maybe ill "ride past ya"
What is this carao stuff? I keep hearing about it-need some info.
FHG
fhg43
New member
Gratuitous Advertising
Endurance athletes:
Check out CuttingEdgeMuscle.com
This is a relatively new discussion board that has some great articles. Moderators Nandi12 and Monkeyballs have some great info you could benefit from.
Elite is a good board, but stop by Cutting Edge and check it out. It's worth it.
FHG
Endurance athletes:
Check out CuttingEdgeMuscle.com
This is a relatively new discussion board that has some great articles. Moderators Nandi12 and Monkeyballs have some great info you could benefit from.
Elite is a good board, but stop by Cutting Edge and check it out. It's worth it.
FHG
I've been browsing this boar for awhile now, just havn't been posting. I'm a triathlete/runner. 5'11 165lbs
have run 4:30 mile 15:56 5k 2:03 tri 500m swim, 40k bike 10k run.
I have done 2 fina only cycles an am about to do a test/fina cycle in order to gain a little lbm before my season starts.
have run 4:30 mile 15:56 5k 2:03 tri 500m swim, 40k bike 10k run.
I have done 2 fina only cycles an am about to do a test/fina cycle in order to gain a little lbm before my season starts.
No, in my experience fina doesn't add a lot of size. Just quality gains. Some people have trouble with bad pumps, which is why I probably wouldn't use it during season.
75mg eod is a good place to start along with some bromocriptine.
I think the pumps really depend on the individual.
By the way this is one awsome thread!
75mg eod is a good place to start along with some bromocriptine.
I think the pumps really depend on the individual.
By the way this is one awsome thread!
E
eatmyass
Guest
Would using winy for wk 1-4 low dose(25mg ed) and EQ wk 1-10(300) ?would this be good for improving distance and timing? I told my friend winny is better at first sine EQ takes a while to kick in and old him to try clen atthe end of EQ cycle good idea or not? P.S. 7-keto,taurine and cq10 are they really worth usig to improve endurance? if yes should it be taken before or after endurance training?
Shinkansen
New member
Here's the deal. I'm a Cat 1, good, not just not good enough. I don't want to test positive or inject anything.
I'm an asthmatic and can get inhalers prescribed. Ventolin / Becotide etc. I don't regularly drink caffeine either, but have no problem doing so.
For example, what could I do during race season 4-6 weeks before a stage race? (cycling)
I'm 5'10, 65kg, about 3% BF.
What do you guys suggest I try?
I'm an asthmatic and can get inhalers prescribed. Ventolin / Becotide etc. I don't regularly drink caffeine either, but have no problem doing so.
For example, what could I do during race season 4-6 weeks before a stage race? (cycling)
I'm 5'10, 65kg, about 3% BF.
What do you guys suggest I try?
Last edited:
silverfish
New member
I'm new here and an endurance athlete. I'm considering doing a cycle this spring with Anavar and Winny or anavar only. 6 weeks at 30mg ED for the var. Anyone have success during the race season with this? Where is the endurance threads anyway?
Thanks
Thanks
carpe diem
New member
Hey
I realise this thread is really old but I hope some of you guys are still out there to answer a few Q's:
I'm a young and ambituous cat 1 racer who has used some roids (prop) although presently has a penchant for the IGF-1. I'm thinking of using some of the good stuff - rEPO - next season. Racing starts end of March and carries on until May for me then a break.
When should I start with the rEPO and what sort of dosages, I've read many suugestions on dosages, just would like some more. I'll be running some IGF-1 with it and presently have a haemocrit of 42 which I want to raise to the magic 50.
Thanks all
I realise this thread is really old but I hope some of you guys are still out there to answer a few Q's:
I'm a young and ambituous cat 1 racer who has used some roids (prop) although presently has a penchant for the IGF-1. I'm thinking of using some of the good stuff - rEPO - next season. Racing starts end of March and carries on until May for me then a break.
When should I start with the rEPO and what sort of dosages, I've read many suugestions on dosages, just would like some more. I'll be running some IGF-1 with it and presently have a haemocrit of 42 which I want to raise to the magic 50.
Thanks all
Nice to meet you carpe diem,
I would classify myself more as a cross training athlete who does alot of endurance training, although I'm currently not competing. I don't think I can give you any advice, since I think you're considerably more knowledgable than I am on performance enhancing agents, but like you, I am trying to find endurance athletes on this board, and I am EXTREMELY interested in IGF-1 and possibly rEPO. How do you like IGF-1 so far, especially as far as power and recovery go?
carpe diem
New member
I can only compare it to my experiences with test (prop and sus). The huge advantage is that you get none of the sides: water, blah blah, and I have found I have dropped some body fat, although there is no documented evidence that this should be the case.
Easy to use but when I use it again next year will probably run it with low dose of test as the recovery isn't quite as good as with higher doses of test.
Not noticed the "almost immediate" increase in power that people go on about but again I think if you were already in a highly anabolic state the effects would be pretty sweet. Endurance: not per se but recovery between sessions is excellent obviously.
Easy to use but when I use it again next year will probably run it with low dose of test as the recovery isn't quite as good as with higher doses of test.
Not noticed the "almost immediate" increase in power that people go on about but again I think if you were already in a highly anabolic state the effects would be pretty sweet. Endurance: not per se but recovery between sessions is excellent obviously.
I am an endurance athlete and I have a stupid question... If I am out on the road training all day and never around a gym to find a good person to get my stuff from who knows what to take... what should I do...
I have seen stuff when I am at races but I don't want to use a supplier that is conected to my group of people I know and see.
I guess I am interested becuase people have passed it my way but I said no but now I have this site to find a lot of research from a lot of different people.
so what is the best connection... internet or person to person
I have seen stuff when I am at races but I don't want to use a supplier that is conected to my group of people I know and see.
I guess I am interested becuase people have passed it my way but I said no but now I have this site to find a lot of research from a lot of different people.
so what is the best connection... internet or person to person
Clenbuterol is not good for ENDURANCE ATHLETES according to this study:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0176.htm
Clenbuterol is a popular - but banned - drug used by athletes in body-building, power-related, and even endurance sports. The chemical is attractive to athletes because it appears to have an anabolic effect on human muscles, and it may also increase fat metabolism. However, the actual effects of long-term clenbuterol intake on performance, muscle power, and overall health have been unclear.
To determine some of clenbuterol's actions, scientists at the University of Melbourne in Australia recently gave clenbuterol to laboratory rats at dosages of 2 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day. Some of the rats followed a completely sedentary lifestyle, while others sprinted on treadmills or engaged in endurance swim training. Clenbuterol did have a couple of potentially positive effects: Sedentary rats which ingested clenbuterol had larger muscles than clenbuterol-free, sedentary rodents, and clenbuterol users also transformed leg-muscle cells from slow-twitch to fast-twitch fibres, a surprising change which would tend to increase anaerobic energy production and magnify muscle power during short, intense exertions.
However, clenbuterol also yielded three very negative changes. First, after just four weeks, clenbuterol-treated rats were unable to maintain their normal swimming or running training intensities, while clean rodents were quite capable of continuing. Secondly, the hearts of the clenbuterol-taking, trained rats increased dramatically in size compared to the hearts of sedentary rats, but the heart expansion was probably due to the infiltration of collagen fibres into the heart walls, not an increase in heart-muscle cells. Collagen is a tough connective tissue which doesn't augment heart-muscle power but in fact stiffens the heart, potentially leading to a decrease in cardiac output. Increases in collagen may also produce cardiac arrhythmias. Thirdly, clenbuterol rats suffered from noticeable cardiac-cell degeneration.
In addition, although sedentary, clenbuterol-treated rats were more muscular than clenbuterol-free, sedentary rats, clenbuterol was unable to boost muscle mass among either the swim- or treadmill-trained rodents. It appears that, in spite of its popularity, clenbuterol is a potentially dangerous drug which offers very few positive effects for either the power or endurance athlete.
('The Effects of Clenbuterol on Skeletal and Cardiac Muscle of Rats when Combined with Aerobic and Anaerobic Exercise, ' Biochemistry of Exercise Ninth International Conference Abstracts, #117, p 75, 1994)
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0176.htm
Clenbuterol is a popular - but banned - drug used by athletes in body-building, power-related, and even endurance sports. The chemical is attractive to athletes because it appears to have an anabolic effect on human muscles, and it may also increase fat metabolism. However, the actual effects of long-term clenbuterol intake on performance, muscle power, and overall health have been unclear.
To determine some of clenbuterol's actions, scientists at the University of Melbourne in Australia recently gave clenbuterol to laboratory rats at dosages of 2 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day. Some of the rats followed a completely sedentary lifestyle, while others sprinted on treadmills or engaged in endurance swim training. Clenbuterol did have a couple of potentially positive effects: Sedentary rats which ingested clenbuterol had larger muscles than clenbuterol-free, sedentary rodents, and clenbuterol users also transformed leg-muscle cells from slow-twitch to fast-twitch fibres, a surprising change which would tend to increase anaerobic energy production and magnify muscle power during short, intense exertions.
However, clenbuterol also yielded three very negative changes. First, after just four weeks, clenbuterol-treated rats were unable to maintain their normal swimming or running training intensities, while clean rodents were quite capable of continuing. Secondly, the hearts of the clenbuterol-taking, trained rats increased dramatically in size compared to the hearts of sedentary rats, but the heart expansion was probably due to the infiltration of collagen fibres into the heart walls, not an increase in heart-muscle cells. Collagen is a tough connective tissue which doesn't augment heart-muscle power but in fact stiffens the heart, potentially leading to a decrease in cardiac output. Increases in collagen may also produce cardiac arrhythmias. Thirdly, clenbuterol rats suffered from noticeable cardiac-cell degeneration.
In addition, although sedentary, clenbuterol-treated rats were more muscular than clenbuterol-free, sedentary rats, clenbuterol was unable to boost muscle mass among either the swim- or treadmill-trained rodents. It appears that, in spite of its popularity, clenbuterol is a potentially dangerous drug which offers very few positive effects for either the power or endurance athlete.
('The Effects of Clenbuterol on Skeletal and Cardiac Muscle of Rats when Combined with Aerobic and Anaerobic Exercise, ' Biochemistry of Exercise Ninth International Conference Abstracts, #117, p 75, 1994)
I`m new in here...
Hi
I`m a mtbiker and new to this forum. It`s incredible how much people has posted on this thread, I hace two days reading it, and decided to post here, hoping that some of the guys in here may answer my questions.
Well, I`m racing since 2002, 22 years old, weight 155lbs, height 1.83mt riding top sport at the nationals in my country, and can do it well in expert class (mid pack finisher). I never have injected or taked any sustance of the mentioned here, but I wanted to know, what will be the best thing to use for my level.
I have read a lot about anavar, but I think that it`s difficult to get that in my country my main sources could give me, primobolan, dianabol, winstrol, and some others body building stuff.
As you can see for my weight and height relation I`m very skinny, so I don`t want to gain any mass or the less it could be.
I wanted to know more about the clenbuterol, and how it can affect my performance, a friend of mine take it for three weeks, and he told me that the main diff was that he can breath better in hard efforts, but not a sustainable or significan effect...
I`m not looking for the miracle drug, I`m just looking for that "little" kick in perfomance.
Thanks a lot!
anything else, you need to know, just let me know it!
Hi
I`m a mtbiker and new to this forum. It`s incredible how much people has posted on this thread, I hace two days reading it, and decided to post here, hoping that some of the guys in here may answer my questions.
Well, I`m racing since 2002, 22 years old, weight 155lbs, height 1.83mt riding top sport at the nationals in my country, and can do it well in expert class (mid pack finisher). I never have injected or taked any sustance of the mentioned here, but I wanted to know, what will be the best thing to use for my level.
I have read a lot about anavar, but I think that it`s difficult to get that in my country my main sources could give me, primobolan, dianabol, winstrol, and some others body building stuff.
As you can see for my weight and height relation I`m very skinny, so I don`t want to gain any mass or the less it could be.
I wanted to know more about the clenbuterol, and how it can affect my performance, a friend of mine take it for three weeks, and he told me that the main diff was that he can breath better in hard efforts, but not a sustainable or significan effect...
I`m not looking for the miracle drug, I`m just looking for that "little" kick in perfomance.
Thanks a lot!
anything else, you need to know, just let me know it!
Nutrovitasub
New member
Ultra Inosine Endurance Complex
Ultra Inosine combines inosine with a unique formula of key nutrients and herbs to support energy production and muscular development.
Other Ingredients: stearic acid, modified cellulose gum, acacia gum, and colloidal silicon dioxide.
Remember that if you are allergic to bee products, pregnant or breastfeeding, consult your health care professional before using this product.
For Ultra Inosine Endurance Complex Products :
Ultra Inosine Endurance Complex
For More Information Nutrovita
Ultra Inosine combines inosine with a unique formula of key nutrients and herbs to support energy production and muscular development.
Other Ingredients: stearic acid, modified cellulose gum, acacia gum, and colloidal silicon dioxide.
Remember that if you are allergic to bee products, pregnant or breastfeeding, consult your health care professional before using this product.
For Ultra Inosine Endurance Complex Products :
Ultra Inosine Endurance Complex
For More Information Nutrovita
black panther
New member
what would u guys think of a heavyweight boxer using epo? i think it would really benefit me in terms of endurance especially in da later rounds. thanx
So for the endurance guys...
I have been researching cycles and profiles in an effort to come up with a toned down cycle that will allow for increased power and mabye lean mass durring heavy training.
I would look at performing sucha stack only with at least a 3 year training age and 8-12 weeks of solid arobic effort. The goal would be to counteract the catabolic effect of trying to lean out but yet maintain power durring the first half of the season.
If you notice these substances were chosen not only for their effects but also for the probablility of being tested... the general idea is that you should be clean 5 weeks after the week 8 cycle... although this is effected by many factors this is being very generous from what I have researched.
Test susp could be coupled durring any stage but could mean more PCT.
so please take a look and disect it for what you think...
Winstrol
25-50 mg / day Winstrol for 8 weeks, 5-6 tabs /day, no reason for PCT
Oral- Turinabol
30-40 mg / day Turinabol for 6 weeks, 3-4 tabs/ day
Humulin R
1-8 IU Post Hard Workouts during PCT
Week 1 & 2
4 x 25 mg tabs / day (100 mg) Winstrol (2inAM & 2inPM) (56)
Week 3 & 4
2 x 25 mg tabs / day (50 mg) Winstrol (2AM) (28)
4 x 10 mg tabs / day (40 mg) Turinabol (2AM & 2PM) (56)
1 week OFF between 4 and 5
Week 5, 6, 7 & 8
2 x 25 mg tabs / day (50 mg) Winstrol (2AM) (56)
3 x 10 mg tabs / day (30 mg) Turinabol (2AM & 1PM) (84)
PCT (6 weeks)
Week 1 - 1 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (4)
Week 2 - 2 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (8)
Week 3 - 3 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (12)
Week 4 - 5 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (20)
Week 5 - 7 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (28)
Week 6 - 8 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (32)
I have been researching cycles and profiles in an effort to come up with a toned down cycle that will allow for increased power and mabye lean mass durring heavy training.
I would look at performing sucha stack only with at least a 3 year training age and 8-12 weeks of solid arobic effort. The goal would be to counteract the catabolic effect of trying to lean out but yet maintain power durring the first half of the season.
If you notice these substances were chosen not only for their effects but also for the probablility of being tested... the general idea is that you should be clean 5 weeks after the week 8 cycle... although this is effected by many factors this is being very generous from what I have researched.
Test susp could be coupled durring any stage but could mean more PCT.
so please take a look and disect it for what you think...
Winstrol
25-50 mg / day Winstrol for 8 weeks, 5-6 tabs /day, no reason for PCT
Oral- Turinabol
30-40 mg / day Turinabol for 6 weeks, 3-4 tabs/ day
Humulin R
1-8 IU Post Hard Workouts during PCT
Week 1 & 2
4 x 25 mg tabs / day (100 mg) Winstrol (2inAM & 2inPM) (56)
Week 3 & 4
2 x 25 mg tabs / day (50 mg) Winstrol (2AM) (28)
4 x 10 mg tabs / day (40 mg) Turinabol (2AM & 2PM) (56)
1 week OFF between 4 and 5
Week 5, 6, 7 & 8
2 x 25 mg tabs / day (50 mg) Winstrol (2AM) (56)
3 x 10 mg tabs / day (30 mg) Turinabol (2AM & 1PM) (84)
PCT (6 weeks)
Week 1 - 1 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (4)
Week 2 - 2 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (8)
Week 3 - 3 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (12)
Week 4 - 5 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (20)
Week 5 - 7 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (28)
Week 6 - 8 IU Humulin R POW (4x/w) W,TH,S,SU (32)
Gymgurl said:
have any of you ever used insulin for endurance performance (not mass).
the only difference is I want to use it to increase recovery and mabye output after use in order to biuld higher. basicly get faster.
any ideas for different ways to use it than just taking large amounts (10IU) and eating a lot... specificly timing before an event... should you taper off of it or use it less frequently so as to not affect your bosies natural recovery process.
thanks
lookingforanedge
New member
Great Thread.....any updates on endurance supps?
lookingforanedge
New member
How are you guys using your EPO?
wv_runner77
New member
I want to get back into running. I have been bodybuilding and powerlifting and have put on a lot of muscle. I am 5'8" and 200lbs. I was thinking that if I stopped working out and didn't do a PCT that I would drop a lot of weight. I am doing two 45min cardio a day. I want to get down to 150-170 fast. I wanted to know after I got down in weight what would be good to take. I can get most anything, but I don't want any weight. I was thinking anavar, but how much. Is 30mg ed to high and can I run it forever. I can get igf-1, but is that going to put to much on.
lmm23
New member
wv_runner77 said:
You can't run anavar forever, unless you won't to end up on HRT. Depending upon whether you are going to run PCT (if not, perhaps do three week cycles, and then two weeks off), you could run it for a couple of months, but I wouldn't because it's pretty liver toxic being an 17aa steroid. People will tell you different things about how much to take, but I found 30mg to be useful. It's worth adding creatine to it...As for IGF-1, I wouldn't take it unless you are hardcore and looking for size. The stomach has receptors with a high affinity for IGF-1, which means increasing the wrong areas as well as good muscular gains. I'd take HGH over IGF-1 anyday. If you do add either, I would add either T4 or T3 alongside it.
lmm23
New member
carpe diem said:
You could try taking 2000iu 3x / week (say, Mon, Weds and Fri). I would be very careful unless you have a way of keeping track of your hematocrit, because it's difficult to know how individuals are going to react. I'm not confident in taking it because my hematocrit is naturally 52! I know people who get it up to 55 and hold it there to good effect...If you are subject to drug-testing, I have heard that people are using micro-daily doses. I'm not sure what counts as micro, but given that 2000iu is a 3x/week dose, it must be considerably lower!
lmm23
New member
silverfish said:
I've never done them both together, only individually. Anavar is great for endurance, at 30mg ED would be fine. I personally won't take Winstrol anymore since it just gives me tendons troubles as well as tightness. But the two together in theory would work well. I wouldn't do injectible Winstrol, however, otherwise you're putting a fair amount of strain on your liver.
lmm23
New member
roidzilla said:
I echo the sentiment about the weight gain. If you're unlucky with estrogen (like me!), then you can find that even low dose testosterone proprionate gives you a bloat. I don't know how far he would want to go, but if I were in his position, I would run either low dose 3 testosterone undecanoate tabs / day for three weeks, two weeks off, or primobolan / anavar. Primobolam has minimal side-effects, and though I have a preference for anavar, it is liver toxic. If you keep both to short cycles, then you won't disrupt your natural test production and you can run the cycles three/four times in a year. Of course, there is boldenone, but I haven't taken it, so wouldn't want to comment on it. When he gets close to racing, I wouldn't risk pushing steroids anywhere near the race date. At that stage if you're running a cycle, just take the test und at low doses and stop as the race approaches, because you'll test positive for testosterone now...
He could take EPO but I wouldn't recommend it unless he can keep tabs on his hematocrit levels. Either way, he could add some low dose T4. From what I understand, this is good for increasing mitochondria, as well as keeping you lean (though this clearly isn't a problem for him).
I not sure I would recommend anything else at this stage. Of course, all the good nutritional advice on here should not be ignored.
living2die
New member
hello all, i am currently an endurance athlete looking for advice on compounds that will enhance aerobic capacity. masteron, either in drostanolone prop or enethanate form, at about 500mg a week works great for endurance, and will help you recover faster as well, without putting any weight on the frame. it helps you get that shredded look that is so coveted in endurance athletes. also, winny tabs at 50-100mg every day works great, an extreme cutting cycle that would add very little mass, but greatly enhance endurance would be 50-100mg of winny every day and about 175mg of masteron every other day. if you have the enethanate form of masteron, you only will need to inject twice per week. also, recommend purchasing an altitude tent, if one is able to deal with the sacrifices of sleeping in a 'bubble'. in sleeping at 10,000 ft +/- 2,000 ft, for 10hrs 6-7 days a week, the athlete can gaine between 1-5% improvment.
anyone out there have any advice on EPO? does this forum allow for sources?
anyone out there have any advice on EPO? does this forum allow for sources?
lmm23
New member
They definitely don't allow talk of sources?!
I had thought about Masteron for endurance, but I think Equipoise would be better for aerobic endurance as increases RBC's, like EPO and is arguably safer. When I took EPO, I was running 2000iu three times per week, but I had to be careful as I already have a haematocrit of 52%. I wouldn't go near EPO unless you can get your blood work done. People respond completely differently to it. As far as Winstrol goes, I have always just got tendon troubles from it, and also intense blood pressure increases. Again, everyone is different!
I had thought about Masteron for endurance, but I think Equipoise would be better for aerobic endurance as increases RBC's, like EPO and is arguably safer. When I took EPO, I was running 2000iu three times per week, but I had to be careful as I already have a haematocrit of 52%. I wouldn't go near EPO unless you can get your blood work done. People respond completely differently to it. As far as Winstrol goes, I have always just got tendon troubles from it, and also intense blood pressure increases. Again, everyone is different!
What a great thread...lets keep it going if we can!!! I race ironman triathlon and am looking to gain strength and endurance without bulking up at all if possible with minimal sides..i keep reading that anavar is excellent for this..can some advise? Can i take it on its own and with what sort of dosage? Many thanks...
Been running low dose Sustanon 250mg a week for 10weeks .. might be good option to try just a low dose test only cycle for ironman .. u should have minimal side effects if any negative at all and u will have to run post cycle, some clomide and nolvelex .. but if u know u gonna be tested then u gonna have to make sure u give urself bout 3month window!
wintrol helped with stength but was not good on my joints .. so id stay with just test if you wanna keep it simple and have great recovery!!
MTBer
wintrol helped with stength but was not good on my joints .. so id stay with just test if you wanna keep it simple and have great recovery!!
MTBer
Hey everyone - I am an 18 year old elite Ameican cyclist looking to make big gains in my peformance. I am soon to start a using anavar because I read that it really makes you lean and strong. Any input on what might help? I'd rather not inject anything.. Any suggestions? (And I dont know any lingo so please be as descriptive as possible)
Hi guys,
I am new to this forum and don't understand most if not all of the terms and lingo bein used here. I am into ironman distance triathlons and I have a few questions I'd like to ask you guys. I am looking into improving my endurance and strength on race day, this means making sure that I can push my limits up to the very end of the race. I was told Stanozolol 75mg/ml injectable is very good but I have no idea how to use it. Do you guys have any suggestions of how I should take it? Like how many do I take each week? and for how long?I don't want to stack it with anything else as I am new to this. And if my big race is in march, when do i start taking it? for how long? and how long will i feel the effects after taking it? Your comments and advise will be greatly appreciated. oh and are there any negative side effects I should be worried about?
I am new to this forum and don't understand most if not all of the terms and lingo bein used here. I am into ironman distance triathlons and I have a few questions I'd like to ask you guys. I am looking into improving my endurance and strength on race day, this means making sure that I can push my limits up to the very end of the race. I was told Stanozolol 75mg/ml injectable is very good but I have no idea how to use it. Do you guys have any suggestions of how I should take it? Like how many do I take each week? and for how long?I don't want to stack it with anything else as I am new to this. And if my big race is in march, when do i start taking it? for how long? and how long will i feel the effects after taking it? Your comments and advise will be greatly appreciated. oh and are there any negative side effects I should be worried about?
mixmike007
New member
up !!
I'm an endurance athlete for runs of 7-9 hours. I read the 38 pages of topics, all are full of information and very interesting. However I still have two important questions. Given the dates of writing you must have new information.
1 / I will tackle a series of EPO alfa soon: 3 x per week 2500UI of 4 weeks. my Hematocrit is a 46% currently. Once the loading phase is complete, how to define the dosage of injections for maintenance?
2 / if I really want to try Dynepo but I find no protocol
help
I'm an endurance athlete for runs of 7-9 hours. I read the 38 pages of topics, all are full of information and very interesting. However I still have two important questions. Given the dates of writing you must have new information.
1 / I will tackle a series of EPO alfa soon: 3 x per week 2500UI of 4 weeks. my Hematocrit is a 46% currently. Once the loading phase is complete, how to define the dosage of injections for maintenance?
2 / if I really want to try Dynepo but I find no protocol
help
Hi Folks, this is my forst post here, I have been looking for advice about my circumstance, and this thread seems to be the right place to post. SO HERE GOES....
A little ackground first...
I am an ex raw powerlifter, natural, at 90 kg with a good bit of lower belly fat, and my best lifts were 205kg squat, 140kg bench, 220 deadlift. all done in comp, THEN a weird thing happened to me. Out of the blue, i decided to do the Ironman, as friends were doing it. at 35 years of age, I stopped the weights and trained for 8 months from cardio scratch, to Ironman, and Completed my first I.m. in 14.26 that was 3 years ago.{ I did a stand alone mary as training on the way}
Since then, I had struggled to regain my strength and muscle, and it has taken nearly 3 years for my power to come back. but back it has come.
the problem I have is this . The lads and I are going to do another Ironman, in exactly 12 mounths. 1 year.. the problem is I dont want to loose my muscle. I am not looking for a time, I just want to finish, while keeping my power. With this in mind, I obtained a batch of anavar. So my plan is swim bike run, squat bench deadlift, for a year. And i want to use the anavar to help.
I am looking for advice regarding when i should start my cycle, like should I keep my stash of anavar for the last 12 weeks b4 the ironman, and actually do the event on the stuff? I plan no more than 30mg a day, and at that dose i actually have enough for 12 weeks. will it be of use to me ?
I await your imput.
thanks for reading
Edit......my friends and I are all37/38 years of age this year. We decided another Ironman was on the cards while we are all young enough to have fun and have a good attempt at it, with out looking too sad. Jack the lad, boyish one up man ship ect ect. I know the other guys will be pulling out all the stops, and they dont lift weights so have an advantage right from the start..., I want to give myself every chance of keepin up, if only for the bullshitting championships that will be held in the bar for many years to come afterwards.
im being honest
A little ackground first...
I am an ex raw powerlifter, natural, at 90 kg with a good bit of lower belly fat, and my best lifts were 205kg squat, 140kg bench, 220 deadlift. all done in comp, THEN a weird thing happened to me. Out of the blue, i decided to do the Ironman, as friends were doing it. at 35 years of age, I stopped the weights and trained for 8 months from cardio scratch, to Ironman, and Completed my first I.m. in 14.26 that was 3 years ago.{ I did a stand alone mary as training on the way}
Since then, I had struggled to regain my strength and muscle, and it has taken nearly 3 years for my power to come back. but back it has come.
the problem I have is this . The lads and I are going to do another Ironman, in exactly 12 mounths. 1 year.. the problem is I dont want to loose my muscle. I am not looking for a time, I just want to finish, while keeping my power. With this in mind, I obtained a batch of anavar. So my plan is swim bike run, squat bench deadlift, for a year. And i want to use the anavar to help.
I am looking for advice regarding when i should start my cycle, like should I keep my stash of anavar for the last 12 weeks b4 the ironman, and actually do the event on the stuff? I plan no more than 30mg a day, and at that dose i actually have enough for 12 weeks. will it be of use to me ?
I await your imput.
thanks for reading
Edit......my friends and I are all37/38 years of age this year. We decided another Ironman was on the cards while we are all young enough to have fun and have a good attempt at it, with out looking too sad. Jack the lad, boyish one up man ship ect ect. I know the other guys will be pulling out all the stops, and they dont lift weights so have an advantage right from the start..., I want to give myself every chance of keepin up, if only for the bullshitting championships that will be held in the bar for many years to come afterwards.
im being honest
hi everyone, im 21 years old, i ride bikes (bmx) and i am looking for some endurance, i went to a psychiatrist for some depression issues and it turns out he is a bodybuilder too, so he prescribed me a maoi inhibitor for the mild depression and a benzodiazepine (lorazepam) for the anxiety, and stanozolol 10 mg two times a day, (oral) i told him if it was ok to take it alone (the stanozolol) since i read that its bad to do a monocycle with it, but he told me that its all good since its only for 30 days and since it doesnt aromatize, but still i have my doubts about all of this . i m having some lower back issues too.. muscular pain.. you guys think the stanozolol will help with it or it will worsen it ? since i read it dryes out your joints and more if its taken alone.. so should i take it with some test or other steroid ? which one ? i would be looking to shed some fat off and build some muscule and endurance.. i go to the gym 3 times a week and eat properly, dont drink alcohol or smoke either.. and i take optimums 100 % whey protein.. my stats are : 5 9" and weight 75 kg.. been working out for 3 years.. i m new on this and i would really appreciate an elaborate answer, i am from argentina so excuse me if i have some errors on the writing
cyclingcobra
New member
hi im a 25 year old cyclist been cycling for 2 years till now im doing great been improving everytime but will this help me??
thinking about doing 150mg Test E with 250 EQ a week and PCT what do u guys think?
i did lots of research and thats the best cycle i can come up
thinking about doing 150mg Test E with 250 EQ a week and PCT what do u guys think?
i did lots of research and thats the best cycle i can come up
elite7777
New member
I am a cyclist and only use test (Androgel) for recovery after hard trainings. I would recommend GW501516 daily and an Albuterol inhaler for training and competition days. I have dosed GW at 5 mg, 7.5 mg and 10mg per day. I find 5 and 7.5 mg work best for me. At 10mg I find my BP drops too much. I have been running GW for about 2 1/2 months and love it! Also, make sure you have your supplements in order like a Daily Multi Vitamin, Beta Alanine, BCAA's, B12, Fish Oil, etc.
I've never tried biking but used to run a lot and I've never found anything better than EQ for endurance. Add some tb-500 to that and maybe even mk-2866 if you want and holy shit... If you aren't rockin then, I don't know how to help you.
Hi guys,
I have joined this discussion late in the day but was wondering if someone can help me please.
A lot of the jargon on the discussion I'm not up to speed with so any help in idiot terms please (ill get there).
I am a serious triathlete competing at semi pro level and have never taken anything other than multi vits etc.
I was wondering what the cyclists/ other triathletes out there were taking to improve?
My main focus would be to increase endurance I.e boost recovery from hard sessions and increase red blood cell count .(my training is superb, I eat well and everything is good on all other aspects). The only thing I had looked into was anadrol tabs (50mg) but the reviews seem mixed.
The only thing I'm not keen to do is inject EPO (seems like you need good medical advice monitoring to do this safely) .
Any help would be massively appreciated. If answers include things like "stacking" can you explain please as no idea how it works. Sorry and thanks again.
I have joined this discussion late in the day but was wondering if someone can help me please.
A lot of the jargon on the discussion I'm not up to speed with so any help in idiot terms please (ill get there).
I am a serious triathlete competing at semi pro level and have never taken anything other than multi vits etc.
I was wondering what the cyclists/ other triathletes out there were taking to improve?
My main focus would be to increase endurance I.e boost recovery from hard sessions and increase red blood cell count .(my training is superb, I eat well and everything is good on all other aspects). The only thing I had looked into was anadrol tabs (50mg) but the reviews seem mixed.
The only thing I'm not keen to do is inject EPO (seems like you need good medical advice monitoring to do this safely) .
Any help would be massively appreciated. If answers include things like "stacking" can you explain please as no idea how it works. Sorry and thanks again.
So this thread seem's to have died. The site mentioned early in this thread appears to have a good endurance community but you have to register in order to access the forums... and they have closed off registration. Any chance someone here would be able to hook me up with the registration question answer (why is spam bad) or put a word in with the mods? contact is someguy20 at the domain safe-mail (.net). Thanks it's a long shot i know
elite7777
New member
Bro - I have not idea what you are talking about. If you are posting here then you are obviously registered with this forum. What question are you trying to ask???So this thread seem's to have died. The site mentioned early in this thread appears to have a good endurance community but you have to register in order to access the forums... and they have closed off registration. Any chance someone here would be able to hook me up with the registration question answer (why is spam bad) or put a word in with the mods? contact is someguy20 at the domain safe-mail (.net). Thanks it's a long shot i know
Sorry I wasn't clearer. Earlier in this thread a LONG time back someone pointed to the endurance forums over at cuttingedgemuscle.com as a place that's quite active. It looks like it's still alive and well (lots of CAT1/pro racers posting from what I can gather) but you need to register on their forums to have access to that folder, and they've blocked registration off because of excessive spam to an invite-only system and I'm looking for an invite. I was trying to avoid referencing another site directly because I know that is frowned upon most places.
Sorry for being so obtuse.
elite7777
New member
To my knowledge they don't have an :"endurance forum" on CEM. R u sure that is the forum the poster was referring to?
Yah. post #2093058 in this thread (2nd post on page 34 and again at the end of that page). Yah the post is from 2002 but...
If you go to "Advanced Search" on CEM and check out the tag cloud at the bottom you see a lot of tags that point to some lively discussion about endurance sports, but clicking through the tags yields "No results" which leads me to believe you have to be logged in and registered on the forums to access those posts.
I may be making all of this up in my head however because I'm hoping to find an oasis of active endurance athlete's in this BB desert!
elite7777
New member
AFAIK it is hit or miss. I can't find anything exclusively dedicated to Endurance Athletes. As you probably know, endurance athletes are secretive because they/we are afraid of being outed and then potentially sanctioned by our sport and/or USADA.
Someone should start a forum for only endurance athletes. Maybe "Elite Fitness" could start a separate forum called "Elite Endurance!" What do you think? Mods, who do I need to talk to so we can get this going?
Gotcha, thanks for the info!
elite7777
New member
What's your Sport? What insight can you give about performance enhancements? Any recommendations or did you only seeking info?
I'm a masters age cyclist. I don't have much to add, but I'm getting ready to try 200/400MG TE/EQ blast just to see if my numbers improve. I just worry about the weight gain. I'll just have to keep my diet strict. I'm mainly interested in reading others experiences and tips (which is why I was looking for an active community).
Last edited:
Tonino Caricone
New member
Hello, Is there anybody in here?
What is, in your opinion, the best supplementation plan for a cyclist to increase the RBC? some news in add to the well known "Folic + b12 + Iron + VITC"?
What is, in your opinion, the best supplementation plan for a cyclist to increase the RBC? some news in add to the well known "Folic + b12 + Iron + VITC"?
I am a young track athlete and I am having trouble on where to order legit steroids from. I am looking to start my first cycle and I would like to try Stanozolol. Any tips on where I should get it from an also what I should add with it. I am 5'9" 175, short distance sprinter. 100 and 200 meter. Not looking to put on much weight but lookin to cut up and harden more.
elite7777
New member
Welcome, how old are you? You really shouldn't do anything until you are over 21.
This isnt a source board and asking for sources is:
1) against the rules
2) setting yourself up to get scammed. Your likely to now get a boatload of PM's from people who know your desperate and are going to try to sell you "something".
travishibachi
Member
Wow what a joke. Looking to cut up and harden more isn't going to make you faster. Track and XC athletes that use or try to use banned substances make me sick. Not to mention PEDs will fuck up your body if you're still a teenager.
Hey Guys,
I'm an experienced endurance athlete moving from short course to long. With the added volume in training. I'm having issues with recovery time between hard training days and races. Although there is a small chance of being tested, it is not a major concern.
I have been looking into running a low dose HGH to help with recovery, but have been told it could take upto 6 months before I get any use out of it?
I have read that EQ and sus250 could be useful but all the information I can find is geared towards body builders.
Could somebody suggest a cycle & PCT that would help with recovery?
I'm 25, at the last lab test I was 8% bodyfat, 59% vo2max and 550w peak watt output.
I'm an experienced endurance athlete moving from short course to long. With the added volume in training. I'm having issues with recovery time between hard training days and races. Although there is a small chance of being tested, it is not a major concern.
I have been looking into running a low dose HGH to help with recovery, but have been told it could take upto 6 months before I get any use out of it?
I have read that EQ and sus250 could be useful but all the information I can find is geared towards body builders.
Could somebody suggest a cycle & PCT that would help with recovery?
I'm 25, at the last lab test I was 8% bodyfat, 59% vo2max and 550w peak watt output.
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