antibiotics and gear

[muscleup]

I was wondering why or if antibiotics cancel out the effects of gear ? I have heard people say this before but it does not seem that it would affect Test levels....Anybody know ?

 

[Victorian guy]

Careful!

Some types of anti-biotics have, as a side effect, increased instance of torn ligaments/tendons.chekc out 'quinolones'- I beleive this is the family of anti-biotics that have this side-effect- on the internet, do a search on it. Here is something I found....

A new research article explains how quinolone antibiotics (including "Cipro") cause joint and tendon ruptures...
See also one young man's testimony on the potential for side effects
Reprint of Dr. Shoskes newsgroup comment on antibiotics in prostatitis treatment.
by Jerry Snider R.Ph.
C I P R O Information & Side Effects -
Cipro (Ciprofloxin) is a member of the quinolone group of antibiotics. Peak blood levels are reached 1-2 hours after dosing. If you take an ANTACID containing magnesium or aluminum hydroxide (most have one or both), it will bind up to 90% of the drug, rendering it mostly ineffective. Same is true with zinc, iron, and calcium. It reaches optimum blood levels if taken 2 hours after a meal. If you take THEOPHYLLINE) for asthma, Cipro slows down the breakdown of Theophylline, and it will cause severe nervousness as you would expect with an overdose (could be fatal!). Cipro does the same with CAFFEINE, and will build up higher blood levels of caffeine, causing nervousness and CNS stimulation.
Cipro is effective against gram positive and gram negative bacteria. It works by interfering with an enzyme that bacteria need to replicate their DNA. Cipro enters tissue, including the prostate, and can be isolated from prostatic secretions.
RECOMMENDED DOSE FOR PROSTATITIS: 500mg every 12 hours for 28 days.
*EFFECTIVE AGAINST:

AEROBIC GRAM POSITIVE:
Enterococcus faecalis;
Staph Aureus;
Staph epidermis;
Staph saprophyticus;
Strep pneumoniae; and
Strep pyogenes.

AEROBIC GRAM NEGATIVE:
Campylobacter jejuni
Citrobacter diversus
Citrobacterfreundii
Enterobacter cloacae
E.Coli
Haemophilus influenzae
Haemophilus parainfluenzae
Klebsiella pneumonae
Morganella morganii
Neisseria gonorrheae
Proteum mirabilis
Proteus vulgaris
Providencia rettgeri
Providencia stuartii
Pseudomonas aeruginose
Salmonella typhi
Serratia marcescens
Shigella flexneri
Shigella sonnei.
Effective against 90% of the strains of the following
In Vitro (test-tube) - - - -
AEROBIC GRAM POS:
Staph haemolyticus;
Staph hominis
AEROBIC GRAM NEG:
Acinetobacter Iwoffi
Aeromonas caviae
Aeromonas hydrophilia
Brucella melitensis
Campylobacter coli
Edwardsiella tarda
Haemophilus ducreyi
Klebsiella oxytoca
Legionella pneumophila
Moraxella catarrhalis
Neisseria meningitidis
Pasteurella multocida
Salmonella enteritidis
Vibrio cholerae
Vibrio parahaemolyticus
Vibrio vulnificus
Yersinia enterocolitica
OTHER:
Clamydia trachomatis
Mycobacterium tuberculosis (moderate on both)
RESISTANT BACTERIA NOT HELPED BY CIPRO: Most strains of: Burkholderia cepacia, Stenotrophomonas maltophilia, Bacteroides fragilis, Clostridium difficile- Cipro is slightly less effective in an acid PH.- Resistance develops slowly to Cipro (multi-step mutations)- Synergistic (stronger) effects occur with Cipro if given with Flagyl (metronidazole), Cleocin (Clindamycin), or aminoglucocide or beta-lactam class antibiotics.
CONTRAINDICATIONS: Should not be used by persons with a history of hypersensi-tivity to Cipro, or other quinolones. Not to be used by persons under the age of 18.
WARNINGS: All quinolones cause erosion of cartilage in weight-bearing joints. They may cause convulsions, increases intracranial pressure, toxic psychosis, CNS stimulation (i.e.nervousness, lightheadedness, confusion, hallucinations).Should not be used in anyone with seizure disorders, or cerebral arteriosclerosis. There have been deaths due to anaphylactic shock, and cardiovascular collapse. Also occurring are tingling, itching, facial swelling, and difficult breathing.
DISCONTINUE at the first sign of a rash or any hypersensitivity. Pseudomembranous colitis has been reported from nearly all antibacterial agents (mild to life-threatening), and anyone taking Cipro having diarrhea should immediately check with his prescribing physician. Antibacterial drugs may kill off normal intestinal flora, resulting in an overgrowth of Clostridia. It produces a toxin that is a primary cause of "antibiotic-associated- colitis".
Achilles and other tendon ruptures requiring surgical repair, resulting in prolonged disability can occur from quinolone use. Discontinue Cipro, and consult your physician, if you experience pain, inflammation, or tendon rupture.
Crystaluria (particles out of solution in urine) may occur, particularly if the urine is alkaline. While taking Cipro, maintain hydration (8-8oz glasses of water daily min.)and drink Orange or Cranberry juice, or apple cider vinegar (2 tsp. with 1 tsp.honey in 8 oz water) to maintain acidity of the urine. Photosensitivity (sunburn) occurs easily. Stay out of the sun all you can, or wear sunscreen (spf30) if you can't. Monitor liver, kidney functions, and blood chemistry during prolonged therapy.
DRUG INTERACTIONS:
Raises blood levels of THEOPHYLLINE and decreases normal elimination resulting in overdosing, potentially fatal. Also alters DILANTIN blood levels.
Given with GLYBURIDE (DIABETA, MICRONASE, GLYNASE), it can cause hypoglycemia. It increases the effects of the blood thinner COUMADIN (WARFARIN), and a patient taking COUMADIN needs to carefully monitor his prothrombin time.
BENEMID (PROBENECID) causes decreased breakdown of Cipro requiring less Cipro, or discontinuance of Benemid.
CARAFATE (SUCRALFATE), an ulcer drug, causes extremely decreased blood levels of Cipro.

ADVERSE REACTIONS:
Nausea (5.2%),
Diarrhea (2.3%),
vomiting (2%),
abdominal pain/discomfort(1.7%),
headache(1.2%),
restlessness(1.1%), and
rash (1.1%).
The following were reported as less than one percent:
CARDIOVASCULAR: Palpatation (feeling your heart beat), heart flutter, fainting, angina, heart attack, cardiopulmonary arrest, blood clot to the brain.
CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM: Nervousness, dizziness, headache, lightheadedness, insomnia, nightmares, hallucinations, manic attack, tremors, irritability, seizures, lethargy, drowsiness, weakness, no appetite, depression, numbness, depersonalization, ataxia ( lack of muscle coordination), agitation, confusion, delirium, toxic psychosis, muscle twitching, involuntary eye movements.
GASTROINTESTINAL: painful oral mucosa, thrush(oral fungal infection),intestinal perforation, G.I. bleeding, jaundice, difficulty swallowing, constipation, intestinal gas, swelling of the pancreas.
MUSCULOSKELETAL: joint stiffness, back pain, neck or chest pain, gout flare-up.
KIDNEY/URINARY: Kidney failure, urinary retention, urethral bleeding, acidosis, nephritis (inflammation of the kidneys), increased urinary output, kidney stones.
RESPIRATORY: difficult breathing, throat or lung swelling (edema), hiccoughs, bronchial spasm, blood clot in the lung, nosebleed.
SKIN HYPERSENSITIVITY: itching, rash, sensitivity to sunlight, flushing, chills, swelling of the blood vessels or lymph system, swelling of the face, lips, neck, eyes, or hands. Cuticle candidiasis (yeast) and hyperpigmentation.
SPECIAL SENSES: Blurred or disturbed vision, sensitivity to light, seeing double, eye pain, ringing in the ears, hearing loss, bad taste in mouth.
MISCELLANEOUS: Elevation of triglycerides and cholesterol. Blood and albumin in the urine, elevated serum potassium, glucose, and albumin. Anemia and agranulo-cytosis (potentially fatal condition where the white blood cell count goes extremely low).
Jerry Snider, R.Ph.


I had the same concerns as you a couple of months ago. I trained light (or heavy but carefully), while on the anti-biotics (levoflaxin)
What kind are you on? Quinolones are popular, and cover such antibiotics as levoflaxin, a popular and very effective anti-biotic for respiratory tract infections.
The weakened tendon situation can persist for a week or two after you are done taking the anti-biotics...so if i were you, I would find out what exactly are the side effects of what I am taking. Insert info ought to be available on the website of the company manufacturing the drug. Check it. Better to train light or not train at all for a few weeks than run the risk of an injury that will take months, or years, to fully heal.

 

[Golden_Muscle]

If I were you I would post this thread 100 more times......

 

[wartime100]

Bump for more info! I would like to know the scientific answer to this once and for all.

 

[mrt]

I don't think anti-biotics cancel out the anabolic effects of steroids and lower test levels, unless you are using them for more than one week. Of course this has to be checked and confirmed by blood tests. I had to use antibiotics for 4-5 days and did not notice any difference. If you have to use antibiotics for long periods of time, then you should stop your cycle and training anyways. But I know that gear and antibiotics just increase the stress on your liver.

 

[ichabodcrane]

There really is no clear cut answer as to how antibiotics will interfere with AAS and to what degree if any they do. Drug-drug interactions can happen when any drug alters the absorption, distribution, metabolism or excretion of another drug. Let's consider the metabolism aspect, as this tends to be the more frequent. As you know, after most drugs are absorbed they proceed to the process of metabolism. Metabolism involves the alteration of the original chemical structure of a drug (usually by an enzyme)into its metabolite. Metabolism serves the purpose of bioactivating the drug, and also to deactivate the drug so it is no longer able to react and ultimately ends up being eliminated. There are literally thousands of enzymes located everywhere in the body just dying to do their duty. We are born with every single enzyme necessary to metabolize every endogenous and exogenous substrate we will be exposed to. I will use testosterone as our example. As we already know, testosterone can be metabolized by the 5-alpha reductase enzyme to form DHT, and also by the aromatase enzyme to form estradiol. But testosterone is also metabolized by another enzyme class called CYP450. These are the oxidative/reductive enzymes. CYP is short for cytochrome. There are many isozymes within the CYP450 class(3A4,1A2,2D6) you get my point. Probably the most important is the CYP3A4. The 3 designates the family of the gene, A the subfamily, and 4 is the individual enzyme. The CYP3A4 is responsible for metabolizing over 50% of all drugs including test. So what happens if you are already taking a drug that is metabolized by the CYP3A4 enzyme and you take another drug that is also metabolized by the same enzyme? Well this is where you run into drug-drug interactions. Drug interactions involving metabolism are usually of two types: 1) Inhibition- usually involves 2 drugs competing for the same (CYP3A4) enzyme. One of the drugs will get the enzyme and one wont. This leads to less enzyme to metabolize the 1st drug, and ultimately increased plasma concentrations of the 1st drug(increased effect). 2) Induction-this occurs when one drug induces (increases) the synthesis of the (CYP3A4) enzyme metabolizing itself OR other coadministered drugs. This usually results in decreased plasma drug levels and decreased effect because you have an increase in metabolism. But it is usually not always this easy. You often see a combination of these which makes it very difficult to predict total effect. A general rule of thumb is to remember that if you are already taking a drug, and you add another drug that is an INDUCER = decreased effect of 1st drug. If the 2nd drug added is an INHIBITOR = increased effect of 1st drug. This is a very general rule and chages dramatically when you add a combination of drugs.
Now, you usually hear that when women are taking oral contraceptives and also taking antibiotics they may experience a decreased effect of the contraceptive. These clinical studies mainly stemmed from antibiotics that were?......enzyme inducers (inducers=decreased effect), concerned with the ORAL contraceptives. This is because, like I said earlier, you have these enzymes throughout the body. The CYP450 enzymes are mainly found in the liver, but also in the GI tract because our normal GI flora(bacteria) have a roll in metabolism. So the idea was if a woman was taking an oral contraceptive (which will be,in part,metabolized in the GI tract by the normal bacteria) the antibiotic will interfere with normal metabolism and decrease the effect of the contraceptive.
So in answer to your question? Depending on the specific antibiotic you are taking will depend on the actual outcome of the drug-drug interaction. The most profound interactions are with drugs taken orally and that have a lower therapeutic index. Since antibiotics are usually not ran for more that 7-14 days, I would not expect the interaction to be of any clinical significance. But, sometimes antibiotics are used chronically and this may be something to consider. Here is a list of drugs metabolized, induced and inhibited by the different CYP450 enzymes to play around with: scroll down.
http://medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/

 

[ichabodcrane]

Oh, and I also forgot to mention that genetics plays a huge role in individual metabolism by CYP450 enzymes. Consider this: The human genome (organism's complete set of DNA) consists of 3 billion DNA base pairs. All human cells, except for mature red blood cells, contain our complete genome. Our DNA is arranged into 24 distinct chromosomes which average 150 million base pairs. Each of our chromosomes contain our genes, which are the basic physical and functional units of heredity. Genes are specific sequences of bases that encode instructions on how to make proteins, ie.Cyp3450 enzyme. The human genome contains on average 50,000 genes. Now consider this: there are approximately 3 million differences between any two individual genomes (you and me). Variant sequences commonly occur every 1500 DNA base pairs (this is the basis for DNA "fingerprinting"). And it is estimated that AT LEAST 3 common variants exist PER GENE in the general human population (on average). Now, it is estimated that 30 % of all of our amino acid sequences are polymorphic (able to assume different forms) and that each individual is estimated to have from 5-50 unfavorable mutations. Polymorphisms result in: variation in protein function (disease), population or ethnic group variability, disease susceptibility, and interindividual variability in response to drugs (pharmacogenetics). So where am I going with this? As you can see, these are huge numbers and endless combinations we are dealing with. EVERY individual is different. We know this. Is it no wonder why there is such interindividual differences between drug outcomes? I stated earlier that the CYP3A4 enzyme (protein) is responsible for metabolising > 50 % of all drugs we know of as well as many endogenous compounds. We are finding out that polymorphisms in this enzyme system is (in part) what accounts for the huge interindividual response to drugs. Other factors that alter our resopnse to drugs are, as we know: age, diet, lifestyle, environment, disease states and of course our individual genetics. So this could be the reason why some people respond to certain AAS while others don't. Or why some people can show certain side effects while others don't etc. Now you know why genetics is the "hot-topic" now. Knowing a person's individual genetic makeup, and being able to target these polymorphisms/mutations will help us in managing their disease state (possibly preventing it), and from a pharmacological view help us to specificillay taylor drug therapy to better target their disease state and afford for better outcomes.
Here are some cool websites to check out:
http://www.ornl.gov/hgmis/project/info.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Omim/

 

[ichabodcrane]

bump