Androgel or shots?

[Chrome87]

First I would like to say hi to everyone and wanted to say how informative I have found this site to be.

My question is I have been taking Androgel for hypogonadism for several years now (5gm) and I was wondering if test shots would be a better option? Or maybe ask the Doc to up my Androgel to 10gm. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[finalabs]

ill tell you igot my levels tested with creams and gels and they never went very high compared with 100mg weekly shot

 

[needtogetaas]

shots.

 

[Chrome87]

Thanks for the response guys. I see my Endo this month and I'll ask him about shots instead of the Gel. Also, I read somewhere in a thread where you can order online by providing your blood test results, in case my Doc does not want to provide me with the shots. Any sites recommended and do they accept insurance plans?

Thanks

 

[JetCityDude]

Hello and Welcome...
Most people like to do shots instead of gels. Regarding gels, most like Testim much more than Androgel.
Regarding online ordering, do a search on google for TRT + antiaging or a few like that. Look at the advertisers that appear at the top and do some review around here and some other forums regarding what you find. You may be able to get the prescription filled but i am not sure how much follow-up treatment you will be able to get out of them.
More later....got to get back to work

 

[5150guy]

Chrome 87:

What are your total T, free T, and E2 levels? What specific problems are you having with the Androgel?

What do you hope to gain by going to the shots? Each method of TRT has its pluses and minuses be it gels, creams, patches, pills, shots or pellets.

 

[JetCityDude]

It is my understanding that most anti-aging places do not accept insurance. Some may assist you in submitting a form to your insurance for reimbursement.

 

[Chrome87]

5150guy:

I'm not experiencing any problems with the Androel other than every now and then I'll forget to rub it on. I'll find out what my levels are tomorrow, but the last time I visited the Doc they were still on the low side and I have been taking the 5GM for several yrs now. I read in a post on here that due to the fact the Androgel has to be absorbed through the skin you are not getting the full dosage like you would get with the shots. I'm working out five days a week now and feel a little fatigued every now and then and was hoping by uping the test to a normal or better than normal level I will feel better and maybe even make some better gains.

 

[5150guy]

Chrome:

Has your doc/endo gave you any answers as to why you have low T in the first place? Has he or she tested your prolactin levels?

Topical delivery T methods suffer from three major draw backs. First, transfer concerns. Second, every one's skin tends to absorb T differently and it is hard to predict how much T is actually going to make it into the blood stream. No endo is likely to tell you this, but if you put the androgel on an area that has a decent layer of fat, you are inviting aromatase to take place as aromatase actitity tends to take place in adipose tissue. Third, it is a bit cumbersome to put the gel on, wait for it to dry, and then clean your hands off afterwards.

As a suggestion, try putting some of the gel on the inside of your wrists. The skin is very thin there and there is a lot of blood flow going through that confined area.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Chrome87]

I had some blood test done several years ago, not for sure what it was but my Doc said some numbers didn't look normal. If I remember correctly it had something to do with my liver readings and he recommended I see an Endocronologist. I also had a MRI done to check my pituitary gland, and it was fine. The Endo said I had Hypogonadism and recommened TRT and I have been on it ever since. However, I can actually say that I have never really noticed a great difference since being on it, just figured it was something my body needed. I see my Endo tomorrow and hopefully I can get a copy of my last blood test report and share it on here.

 

[Chrome87]

Saw the Doc today and got a copy of my lab results from last July. I have posted it just like it appears on the paper, so I hope it can be understood. He did up my dose to 7.5 Androgel (pump) but didn't want to jump right up to the 10 GM. As far as the shots, he doesn't recommend them because of the up and down affect in between shots. I guess I'll see how this works out. Has anyone used the pump? If so, what are your thoughts of it?

Testosterone Total 282 In Range 250-1100 ng / dl Reference range

Test,%,free 2.26 1.00-3.10 %

Test, free 63.7 35.0-155.0 pg / mL

 

[5150guy]

Your Total T is very low for being on 5mg androgel. At 282 total, you are not even going to begin to enjoy any benefits from TRT. Did your doc do a bone densitiy scan? Men with Hypogonadism are at risk for osteoporosis-yes that "woman's disease"

Has your doctor determined why your T levels are so low? Has he or she ordered some genetic work? A real comprehensive assesment requires a look at your X and Y Chromosomes to see if there are some anomolies that might account for low T. I hope that you do not have problems based on issues with the X & Y chromosomes.

The advantage to the pump is that you should be able to get intermediate doses such as 7.5 mg ect. Also due to less packaging costs, Androgel should be a bit cheaper by the pump providing that you can get a refill and not have to buy a new pump each time. What does the pump cost you compared to the 5 mg sachet?

 

[Chrome87]

I don't know if a bone density scan was done or not. If there was, he didn't mention it. I did ask him what he thought the cause of my Hypo was and he said he did not know, but a low signal from my pituitary gland is why I had the MRI done. But he said it cheked out fine.

They took blood work today and urine. What would the Urine test be for?

I do mail order for a three month supply for my Androgel and it cost me $50 through my insurance.

 

[5150guy]

I don't know if a bone density scan was done or not. If there was, he didn't mention it. I did ask him what he thought the cause of my Hypo was and he said he did not know, but a low signal from my pituitary gland is why I had the MRI done. But he said it cheked out fine.

They took blood work today and urine. What would the Urine test be for?

I do mail order for a three month supply for my Androgel and it cost me $50 through my insurance.

If your doc has determined that your low T is due to a low out put of LH and FSH from your pituitary gland, you most likely have secondary hypogonadism. Providing that you do have secondary Hypogonadism, your testicles would respond to HCG, HMG or rLH for testosterone generation, and the use of these gonadotrophins will rehab your testicles if you can get your doc to mix them in with your TRT program.

Not unless i missed something, you have not posted your E2 levels? or your prolactin levels? Have you had any gyno sympoms or sensitivity/irritation of your nipples?

 

[Chrome87]

Wow, I really seem to be in the dark here when it comes to knowledge about the Endocrine system and how it works. I posted what was on the Lab paperwork they gave me. I hate to keep bothering you with all the questions, but you seem to have alot of knowledge and I appreiciate your responses.

Yes, I do have some gyno symptoms sensitivity/irritation around the nipples somtimes, but I had those feelings from time to time before I started TRT.

What is 1st Hypogonadism as opposed to secondary ?
What is HCG, HMG, RLH?
What is E2 levels and Prolactin levels?
Is there a specific test I should ask my Doc to have done?


Is there infromation/books that you can recommend that I can read up on and learn more about Hypogonadism?

Thanks

 

[JetCityDude]

see attached

 

[JetCityDude]

part 2 (due to upload limits)

 

[5150guy]

Yes, I do have some gyno symptoms sensitivity/irritation around the nipples somtimes, but I had those feelings from time to time before I started TRT.

From the research that I have done, this seems to be the case when men have been dealing with hypogonadism for quite some time. If you have low T production you tend to get a build up of E2 (Estradiol) estrogen built up in the body.


What is 1st Hypogonadism as opposed to secondary ?

Primary Hypogonadism is due to testicle failure. In this case your pituitary and HPTA are working to make testosterone, but the testicles have failed and will not do thier job. This would also mean that primary gonadism men are infertile as well.

Secondary or hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism is due to insufficent release of LH and to some extent FSH to produce adequate testosterone. The testicles are capable of making more T but they are not getting enough signals or "messengers" to do so.

What is HCG, HMG, RLH?

HCG is Human Chrionic Gonadotrophin. It comes from the urine of pregnant women and this Gondaotriopin (not a hormon per se) is what changes the color on the little test strip. HCG is an analog for LH and thus will drive healthy testicles to produce more T. HCG like LH acts upon the leydig cells.

HMG is Human Menopausal Gonadorpihin and as you probably guessed it comes from the urine of menopausla women. It contains both LH and FSH. In this case the LH works on the lydig cell receptors to cause T to be produced. While FSH acts upon the receptors in the sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm. FSH and LH are found in both the female and the male reproductive endocrine system.

rLH is recombinant LH which means that it was made through the use of recombinant technology.

What is E2 levels and Prolactin levels?

E2 is estradiol which is the strongest form of estrogen. Yes the healthy male body has to have some estrogen in it. Just as the healthy female body has to have Testosterone in it.

Is there a specific test I should ask my Doc to have done?

The sensitive and more expensive Estrogen test is the best. The other test is often a waste of time and money as it does not measure below 30.

Testing prolactin is important as a man should not have an increase in prolactin. This is the hormone that signals a woman's breast tissue to produce milk. If the level of prolactin raises in a male it will start to shut down testosterone production and can fool your average MD into diagnosing secondary hypogonadism when that is not the case. Raises in prolactin are often due to pitiutary tumors and psychotropic medications.

Is there infromation/books that you can recommend that I can read up on and learn more about Hypogonadism?

Dr. Eugene Shippen has a good book for general background info. If you are not put off by all the medical jargon, the AACE handbook for treating hypogonadism is very good.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

 

[Chrome87]

Thanks for all the information guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[thelion2005]

My answer is from experience. I've done sust, test c,e,p shots, Androgel and topical bio-identical test.

Shots at low dosages of 100 mg or less per week (or eod for test p) are very effective.

Androgel works and can drive your levels up over 1,000 even at 5%.

Topical bio-identical is best for health. It is smooth, raises your levels and keeps them there.

For HRT, topical bio-identical or test p 50mg X 2 per week is best.

For cycles, new ball game. I did best on 50 mg test p eod, 20 mg of naps ed, 200 deca ew, 0.5 a-dex MWF and 1.25 iu HGH eod. I was King Kong.

 

[celica]

great post

 

[motodawg]

bump this and keep it around, a lot of very good info for the HRT,TRT guys.

 

[5150guy]

Have you looked into pellets

First I would like to say hi to everyone and wanted to say how informative I have found this site to be.

My question is I have been taking Androgel for hypogonadism for several years now (5gm) and I was wondering if test shots would be a better option? Or maybe ask the Doc to up my Androgel to 10gm. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

After having tried gels, creams, shots and pills, pellets have been a very pleasant surprise. Other than being a pain in the butt due to the minor incisions, this has been the most consistent release and easiest method to regulate my T levels.

I also liked the bio-identical creams, but they smelled strange to me, and they made my sweat smell different too.

 

[Chrome87]

Re: Have you looked into pellets

After having tried gels, creams, shots and pills, pellets have been a very pleasant surprise. Other than being a pain in the butt due to the minor incisions, this has been the most consistent release and easiest method to regulate my T levels.

I also liked the bio-identical creams, but they smelled strange to me, and they made my sweat smell different too.

I just got the androgel pump and my Doc up the dosage to 7.5. I was taking the Gel 5gm, My last blood test showed my over all test at 302. I wish I could get that doubled, or more and see if there would be a noticable difference.

 

[5150guy]

Re: Have you looked into pellets

I just got the androgel pump and my Doc up the dosage to 7.5. I was taking the Gel 5gm, My last blood test showed my over all test at 302. I wish I could get that doubled, or more and see if there would be a noticable difference.

Where are you applying the androgel? Is the Total T of 302 after the increase to 7.5 gm or before?

 

[Chrome87]

Re: Have you looked into pellets

Where are you applying the androgel? Is the Total T of 302 after the increase to 7.5 gm or before?

Total T was at the 5 gm. I use to apply it to my stomach area, but for the last several weeks I have been putting it on my shoulder/upper arm. I thought maybe avoiding the hair on my stomach may let it absorb better.

 

[manboy]

the gel seems pretty hit or miss don't it? Some guys get there numbers very high on it, some are actually lower on it. At 302 I would say it isn't working (at least not enough). Your doc not interested in getting it higher? I know he/she upped the androgel dose but sadly for you I don't see it jumping very high with that. Maybe trying it twice a day would work better. My doc is ok with working to get mine around 1000 as he is a friend of mine and wants even his to be 800. He is looking into compounded transdermals, so they make it whatever he needs to get his levels to that and I will my injectables compounded to whatever I need (within reason of course). I'm starting at 100mg a week, but will continue to up it til it gets where I want it.

 

[Clicked]

IMO, gel's or creams are a huge pain in the ass. I was on them for a few years, and beng on a weekly injection has been so much better.

No more:
- having to put on twice a day
- gel nor absorbing, and shows as a white mark when it drys
- gel + living in Florida = sweating = make a mess of the gel
- worried about how soon I could come in contact with others


Then again, this is only my opinion...

 

[VintageStrat]

Gotta side with "Clicked" here................I used Gel for about a year, it wasn't all that bad, I did "feel it " but I was always worried about hugging my Kids.
Now, with Test C every week, its a much more noticible effect and less worrisome for me.

 

[Clicked]

I was applying once per day, and then it was bumped to twice. Ended up being an inconvenience

More than a few times.... "you have something on your arm". I look at the inside of my forearms and there is a white residue left over.

Then there is the sweating, and feeling it mix with the gel.

IMO, Shots = easier, cleaner, and more stable levels

 

[synfull]

I have just started taking the Testim 50mg cream also. After doing 2 cycles of 250 mg. test e. HCG, and 250 mg. Primo for 12 weeks I went to him for a blood test and it came back at 1800.

Before the cycles, it was in the 240 range.
I told him about the test cycles. He said that they could put me on an injectible of 250 mg test c. every 2 weeks.

He had me come in for another blood test after a month and my test levels were low again (I didn't get the numbers from, him yet). He just called me in a script for the testim
and I didn't have a chance to bring up the injections. i guess I will have to wait a few weeks now and have him test my levels again before I bug him about going on the Test e.