And you want to bring democracy here?..

[Razorguns]

"BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A suicide bomber detonated a belt of explosives near a highly revered Shiite shrine in southern Iraq Thursday, killing at least 35 people and injuring 122, an official said.

Sectarian clashes have largely occurred in the Baghdad area, where about 1,500 violent deaths were reported last month, a dramatic rise from about 1,000 deaths in January. Most of the deaths were believed to be the result of sectarian feuding. "

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060810/shiite_shrine_061008/20060810?hub=World

1,500 MURDERS in ONE month in ONE city. Read that slowly.

Say what u want about Saddam - he kept those savages in check.

Now we got a civil war, with two sides hating each other. A religious war. Another isreali/lebanon style conflict.

So much for decreasing us troops.

Yeah we'll win. When everyone's dead or refugees in another country.

Boy have we fucked up and under-estimated ethnic hatred. You can't bring democracy to a land where people don't want it.

May that be a lesson Bush & co will learn well when he's out of office, and it's full-on civil war there.

 

[frorider6.2]

It is absolutley a civil war. One of the debates we had at work today was whether ANYONE has EVER won against an insurgency.

I say, no.

 

[pin]

Your so right. But its never been about establishing a democracy. Thats a smoke screen. Its about oil. I think we should just help Kurds (who have been cooperating) and use our troops to secure the oil rich north, pull out of southern Iraq and let the dumb ass Sunnies and Sheites rip each other apart. They'd see the smoke in Alberta.

 

[D-Shots]

MTV should film their next Real World in Baghdad..

I'd watch THAT season.

 

[pin]

MTV should film their next Real World in Baghdad..

I'd watch THAT season.

Fuckin A!

 

[frorider6.2]

Your so right. But its never been about establishing a democracy. Thats a smoke screen. Its about oil. I think we should just help Kurds (who have been cooperating) and use our troops to secure the oil rich north, pull out of southern Iraq and let the dumb ass Sunnies and Sheites rip each other apart. They'd see the smoke in Alberta.

It isn't about oil. That is what eveyone believes and what OPEC promotes because they use the volitile middle east to jack up oil prices. My wife used to work for an oil PR company. Most of our oil comes from South America.

I can't say the real reason.

My theory: GWB received bad intel about Sadam's capabilities. Our Intel network led him to believe that he was a keystone in the Al Queda cycle. We totally read the culture wrong and thought we would be greeted as heros. We were'nt and now that we're there, we can't leave. We are the only thing standing between TOTAL civil war and Iran rolling in.

We fucked up by going in and now we can't get out. It's not about oil though. That's just a good story for the liberal news to trumpet around.

 

[Razorguns]

It isn't about oil. That is what eveyone believes and what OPEC promotes because they use the volitile middle east to jack up oil prices. My wife used to work for an oil PR company. Most of our oil comes from South America.

I can't say the real reason.

My theory: GWB received bad intel about Sadam's capabilities. Our Intel network led him to believe that he was a keystone in the Al Queda cycle. We totally read the culture wrong and thought we would be greeted as heros. We were'nt and now that we're there, we can't leave. We are the only thing standing between TOTAL civil war and Iran rolling in.

We fucked up by going in and now we can't get out. It's not about oil though. That's just a good story for the liberal news to trumpet around.

Ask any US member in iraq now - most people hate us now. They hate us in Afghanistan too.

At the beginning we were liberators. Now we're 'policemen' - and you KNOW how much people love police officers.

They're sick of us, and with Saddam and his iron fist gone - 10,000 militias have formed and lawlessnes is everywhere. Big fat free for all of violence and criminal activity.

None of our soldiers can speak iraqi, and suck at law enforcement. They weren't trained for guerilla street-based warfare in a foreign country. No one expected crude ied's made by un-educated people, to kill so many of our high-tech troops.

So many things we under-estimated. Bush actually thought "we kill saddam, put in a democratic govt, keep the peace and people will drive in suv's and picnic in parks! ta da!"

 

[pin]

Ask any US member in iraq now - most people hate us now. They hate us in Afghanistan too.

At the beginning we were liberators. Now we're 'policemen' - and you KNOW how much people love police officers.

They're sick of us, and with Saddam and his iron fist gone - 10,000 militias have formed and lawlessnes is everywhere. Big fat free for all of violence and criminal activity.

None of our soldiers can speak iraqi, and suck at law enforcement. They weren't trained for guerilla street-based warfare in a foreign country. No one expected crude ied's made by un-educated people, to kill so many of our high-tech troops.

So many things we under-estimated. Bush actually thought "we kill saddam, put in a democratic govt, keep the peace and people will drive in suv's and picnic in parks! ta da!"

I agree that the Bush admin underestimated the chaos that would insue post Saddam. But I still believe its about oil and a stratiegic military presance to maintain our status as a super power. All wars are fought over money. btw Just so ya know, I'm not a liberal. Peace

 

[manny78]

They should leave troops to protect the oil fields and leave Bahgdad for good. There's nothing to do there, democracy aint gonna happen. They seem to enjoy chaos so let them have fun killing each other while the civilized world sucks all their oil.

 

[Razorguns]

If we REALLY wanted to instill democracy there - we could've done it by creating jobs and plants there - like we did in China.

People get jobs, work, make money, get educated, raise their standard of living, stop thinking of us as their enemy but their clients, stop forgetting about ethnic hatred cuz they have to work alongside each other - and in 20 years - it turns into a major industrial nation.

Parents would raise their kids to get good jobs, rather than suicide bombers, cuz that's their only option.

Russia also trying to prevent civil war right now, with the same method. Raise people's standard of living, educate people, and not let them starve and be poor with nothing to do. Prime grounds to recruit terrorists.

Nike could've done more good than Bush and his 1,000 tanks.

too easy.