An observation about so called "conservatives"

[Ffactor]

From reading their posts it seems like they associate the following points with being conservative:

1. Pro-war
2. Would like to see people getting locked up for wearing tee-shirts saying "Give peace a chance"
3. Killing people who criticize the president.
4. Calling anti-war protestors traitors.

How do you feel about this ideology here in the Untied States? What doctrine of political thinking is this? I am a conservative and am not familiar with this. What similarities do you see between this and the way terrorists think along with dictatorships like Iraq.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I guess it depends how much you want to generalize, doesn't it?

 

[Ffactor]

I guess it depends how much you want to generalize, doesn't it?

Let's generalize the same way we do Muslims.

 

[WODIN]

FACIST PIGS!!!

 

[havoc]

Let's generalize the same way we do Muslims.

2 Wrongs don't make a left homie.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Let's generalize the same way we do Muslims.

Are you referring to the "they'er all terrorists" stereotype?
Because if you are, then there isn't a lot of room for discussion.


Your post above is really just reflecting what the majority of people are feelign right now. the coutnry has moved further right - look at government - all Republican controlled, with a Republican President enjoying sustained high approval ratings.

The majority fo teh coutrny falls into your groups above. So the majority has become more "conservative". As is typical, their feelings are being dictated by mainstream media.

 

[Ffactor]

FACIST PIGS!!!

Should they be put into concentration camps along with "suspected terrorists".

 

[Ffactor]

Are you referring to the "they'er all terrorists" stereotype?
Because if you are, then there isn't a lot of room for discussion.


Your post above is really just reflecting what the majority of people are feelign right now. the coutnry has moved further right - look at government - all Republican controlled, with a Republican President enjoying sustained high approval ratings.

The majority fo teh coutrny falls into your groups above. So the majority has become more "conservative". As is typical, their feelings are being dictated by mainstream media.

Exactly, that is how we are labeling them is it not. Is there a line between fascism and being "conservative". What do you think will happen to the concepts in which this country was founded if this continues??

 

[WODIN]

Should they be put into concentration camps along with "suspected terrorists".

I'm okay with that.

How about death matches on pay per view to finance the costs of the war?

 

[havoc]

Exactly, that is how we are labeling them is it not. Is there a line between fascism and being "conservative". What do you think will happen to the cocnepts in which this country was founded if this continues??

Those "cocnepts" have not been followed for decades sir. Now if you want to refer to them as "new rules to fit the situation and current market" then you're on the money B. peace

 

[Ffactor]

I'm okay with that.

How about death matches on pay per view to finance the costs of the war?

Now were talking. How bout Nature Boy vs. Condaleeza Rice for the first match???

 

[Ffactor]

Those "cocnepts" have not been followed for decades sir. Now if you want to refer to them as "new rules to fit the situation and current market" then you're on the money B. peace

You are correct sir, tis a sad, sad thing. Methinks I's gonna move to Canada.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Exactly, that is how we are labeling them is it not. Is there a line between fascism and being "conservative". What do you think will happen to the cocnepts in which this country was founded if this continues??

That's a pretty big question.

This ocuntry went away from its founding principles with the Civil War - the issue of self-deterination and the 10th Amednment.

Since then, the federal government has reigned unchecked and only continues to grow. it works kinda like this:

The government grows itself for whatever reason (drugs terrorism, etc.) , then it needs to hire more people. It will never get smaller, because no legislator can win in offie without the votes of government employees.

Anyone who rides in on a promise of massive slashing will be summariliy rejected as a candidate.

eventualy it gets to the point where there are more government employees than anything else.

Virtual socialism, or dictatorship. Whichever comes first.

 

[dballer]

From reading their posts it seems like they associate the following points with being conservative:

1. Pro-war
2. Would like to see people getting locked up for wearing tee-shirts saying "Give peace a chance"
3. Killing people who criticize the president.
4. Calling anti-war protestors traitors.

How do you feel about this ideology here in the Untied States? What doctrine of political thinking is this? I am a conservative and am not familiar with this. What similarities do you see between this and the way terrorists think along with dictatorships like Iraq.

I am conservative. I am not republican. I am not democrat.

I feel being conservative has nothing to do with this war and leans more on family values and a traditional way of doing things. I do agree with some of these "so called conservatives" that you speak of. I also do not agree with alot of the views. But like I said, your views on this war have no bering on being conservative or not.

 

[Ffactor]

That's a pretty big question.

This ocuntry went away from its founding principles with the Civil War - the issue of self-deterination and the 10th Amednment.

Since then, the federal government has reigned unchecked and only continues to grow. it works kinda like this:

The government grows itself for whatever reason (drugs terrorism, etc.) , then it needs to hire more people. It will never get smaller, because no legislator can win in offie without the votes of government employees.

Anyone who rides in on a promise of massive slashing will be summariliy rejected as a candidate.

eventualy it gets to the point where there are more government employees than anything else.

Virtual socialism, or dictatorship. Whichever comes first.

Agreed, unless there is a candidate who sees this problem as potentially being the end of America as we know it, get into office and then make it his objective to reduce government. I would try this during his second term so he does not have to worry about getting re-elected.

 

[Ffactor]

Re: Re: An observation about so called "conservatives"

I am conservative. I am not republican. I am not democrat.

I feel being conservative has nothing to do with this war and leans more on family values and a traditional way of doing things. I do agree with some of these "so called conservatives" that you speak of. I also do not agree with alot of the views. But like I said, your views on this war have no bering on being conservative or not.

Well said.

 

[dballer]

Re: Re: Re: An observation about so called "conservatives"

Well said.

Thank you

 

[Ffactor]

If we continue down this path and with the growing anti-americanism that is currently evident throughout the world, do you think we are leading ourselves into 3rd world war???

 

[OKIE]

I am a conservative and a Republican.

1. I am not Pro-War, but will admit that there are times when it is inevitable and needed as a last effort resolution.
2. I have no problem with Peace activists or Anti-war protestors as long as their protests do not risk the lives of others.
3. I have no problem with those who criticize the President, however, I often question their timing and rationale behind their criticism.
4. Refer to # 2

 

[The Almighty]

I am a conservative and a Republican.

1. I am not Pro-War, but will admit that there are times when it is inevitable and needed as a last effort resolution.
2. I have no problem with Peace activists or Anti-war protestors as long as their protests do not risk the lives of others.
3. I have no problem with those who criticize the President, however, I often question their timing and rationale behind their criticism.
4. Refer to # 2

Took the words right outta my mouth.

 

[Ffactor]

I am a conservative and a Republican.

1. I am not Pro-War, but will admit that there are times when it is inevitable and needed as a last effort resolution.
2. I have no problem with Peace activists or Anti-war protestors as long as their protests do not risk the lives of others.
3. I have no problem with those who criticize the President, however, I often question their timing and rationale behind their criticism.
4. Refer to # 2

So far it seems the only people that have died are protestors. I agree with you about timing, when I saw Michael Moore start his commentary on the oscars, I almost puked.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Agreed, unless there is a candidate who sees this problem as potentially being the end of America as we know it, get into office and then make it his objective to reduce government. I would try this during his second term so he does not have to worry about getting re-elected.

Most dictatorships are created out of hate for a common enemy. In the Middle East it has been Muslim sects against each other, or against Israel and the US, that has allowed those dictatorships toreign.

The federal government here has incrementally increased its power by doing teh same thing. Slavery was an "enemy" 150 years ago, and while it is certainly wrong, it was also the beginning of the end for the 10th Amendment, which was designed to keep the government small.

The Civil War made the Northern states loyal to the federal government and "reconstructed" the South to be the same way. Enemies since then have been numerous: (this is but a partial list)

1. "The rich" were an enemy, leading to the creation of an income tax, deemed uncoonstitutional just 50 years prior to its inception. Everyone united against them in a piece of class-warfare drivenlegisltation that still hurts us.

2. Poverty was an enemy in the 1930's leading to the creation of what are now unbearable burdens.

3. Communism was an enemy for a long time,still is. Nothing galvanized the people like some anti-red rhetoric.

4. Terrorism. Terrorism is great because ti uses dictator friendly terms like "enemy combatants", which are ambiguous and broadly applicable.

Each of these "enemies" has yielded a broader scope of authority for federal agencies. Our new enemy, terrorism, has produced the DHS, for example, federalization of airport employees...I could go on).

The new laws on the books are great too. Did you now that Allen Iverson (the NBA star) was actually chargde with crimes violating some post 9-11 legislation when he allegedly brandished a gun in his uncle's aprtment. Charges were dropped, but still, Iverson is no terrorist.

With each sucessive enemy, the government grows in size. There are no "old white men" sittingaround planning this. it happens because we are a rich country, and people will concede apparently "useless" freedoms (most people never participate in organized demonstration) in order to gain "security.

And on it goes. The downward spiral.

A media leader could make an impact. But it would have to be Murdoch or Sumner Redstone, two guys with $10B+ who don't want to risk any entanglements with the US giovernment, I suspect.

 

[naturally anabolic]

2 Wrongs don't make a left homie.

2 Wongs dont look white homie.

 

[WODIN]

........eventualy it gets to the point where there are more government employees than anything else.

Virtual socialism, or dictatorship. Whichever comes first.

This is why I advocate a system of Gladiator Battles for political office rather than elections.

The Pay-per view $$ will finance the government eliminating all taxes.

The death tolls from elections will be a form of population control.

Any bill creating a new law will require a duel to the death on the white house lawn with the President vs. The Speaker of the House.

 

[Silent Method]

1. Pro-war I support the war. I think it's just. However, the term "pro-war" does not describe my position. I hate war.

2. Would like to see people getting locked up for wearing tee-shirts saying "Give peace a chance" This is absurd. Wear whatever t-shirt you want - these types of freedoms are why America fights.

3. Killing people who criticize the president. This is beyond absurd and has nothing to do with conservatism. The right to express critisizm of our leaders is a foundation of our country.

4. Calling anti-war protestors traitors. I have no problem with protesters. However, there rights END when they begin to infringe on the rights of others - such as blocking/trapping traffic, etc. Also, if they act in such a way as to impede state or federal services or block such facilities, including fire, police, governmental administration, and military facilities, especially in this time of war, the act is arguably treasonous.

 

[Ffactor]

This is why I advocate a system of Gladiator Battles for political office rather than elections.

The Pay-per view $$ will finance the government eliminating all taxes.

The death tolls from elections will be a form of population control.

Any bill creating a new law will require a duel to the death on the white house lawn with the President vs. The Speaker of the House.

Wodette for pres, he gets my vote!

 

[Testosterone boy]

Anyone who rides in on a promise of massive slashing will be summariliy rejected as a candidate.

eventualy it gets to the point where there are more government employees than anything else.

As my memory serves me, Reagan did just fine vs. Carter and he really wanted to shrink the government. A couple years later, they blamed all the shrinkage on, I think, Stockman, the 33(?) year old with an MBA who impressed everyone by pulling a bunch of economic figures out of his ass.


You clearly think this country is doomed and I will not argue with all the logic behind such sentiment. I'm sure I could add a few paragraphs to any testimony about the demise of America.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

As my memory serves me, Reagan did just fine vs. Carter and he really wanted to shrink the government. A couple years later, they blamed all the shrinkage on, I think, Stockman, the 33(?) year old with an MBA who impressed everyone by pulling a bunch of economic figures out of his ass.

You clearly think this country is doomed and I will not argue with all the logic behind such sentiment. I'm sure I could add a few paragraphs to any testimony about the demise of America.

Anyone could have beaten Carter.

History has shown what the natural course of events will be.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Anyone could have beaten Carter.

History has shown what the natural course of events will be.

Well I tend to agree with your posts though Carter did defeat Ted Kennedy who was even more defeatable. Still, I think Reagan would have done well against most candidates.



History? Well.....we are doomed according to history which I have sadly pointed out several times before. Question is.....why does the power elite do nothing to slow our demise? They should know exactly what is going on.

 

[Ffactor]

Well I tend to agree with your posts though Carter did defeat Ted Kennedy who was even more defeatable. Still, I think Reagan would have done well against most candidates.



History? Well.....we are doomed according to history which I have sadly pointed out several times before. Question is.....why does the power elite do nothing to slow our demise? They should know exactly what is going on.

Indeed, seems like they have been brainwashed!

 

[Testosterone boy]

Indeed, seems like they have been brainwashed!

I'm upset because MTS has informed me that any candidacy would be "summarily rejected" if it called for massive slashing of government. My desire to shrink the government is my driving force in interest towards politics.

 

[Frackal]

Great posts Matt... the point about the conundrum of the canidate never getting the votes needed because of the already existing size of the government is a good one I hadn't thought about....but you don't think America is fucked?

 

[2Thick]

Most dictatorships are created out of hate for a common enemy. In the Middle East it has been Muslim sects against each other, or against Israel and the US, that has allowed those dictatorships toreign.

The federal government here has incrementally increased its power by doing teh same thing. Slavery was an "enemy" 150 years ago, and while it is certainly wrong, it was also the beginning of the end for the 10th Amendment, which was designed to keep the government small.

The Civil War made the Northern states loyal to the federal government and "reconstructed" the South to be the same way. Enemies since then have been numerous: (this is but a partial list)

1. "The rich" were an enemy, leading to the creation of an income tax, deemed uncoonstitutional just 50 years prior to its inception. Everyone united against them in a piece of class-warfare drivenlegisltation that still hurts us.

2. Poverty was an enemy in the 1930's leading to the creation of what are now unbearable burdens.

3. Communism was an enemy for a long time,still is. Nothing galvanized the people like some anti-red rhetoric.

4. Terrorism. Terrorism is great because ti uses dictator friendly terms like "enemy combatants", which are ambiguous and broadly applicable.

Each of these "enemies" has yielded a broader scope of authority for federal agencies. Our new enemy, terrorism, has produced the DHS, for example, federalization of airport employees...I could go on).

The new laws on the books are great too. Did you now that Allen Iverson (the NBA star) was actually chargde with crimes violating some post 9-11 legislation when he allegedly brandished a gun in his uncle's aprtment. Charges were dropped, but still, Iverson is no terrorist.

With each sucessive enemy, the government grows in size. There are no "old white men" sittingaround planning this. it happens because we are a rich country, and people will concede apparently "useless" freedoms (most people never participate in organized demonstration) in order to gain "security.

And on it goes. The downward spiral.

A media leader could make an impact. But it would have to be Murdoch or Sumner Redstone, two guys with $10B+ who don't want to risk any entanglements with the US giovernment, I suspect.

 

[Ffactor]

I'm upset because MTS has informed me that any candidacy would be "summarily rejected" if it called for massive slashing of government. My desire to shrink the government is my driving force in interest towards politics.

I don't totally agree with Matt, although I see where he is coming from. For example, republicans typically increase military spending, therefore, they have a huge support group in the military. However, out of 300 million people what percentage is actually government employees. Homeland security is a joke. Ashcroft is a fascist. It is up to the people to stop this.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I'm upset because MTS has informed me that any candidacy would be "summarily rejected" if it called for massive slashing of government. My desire to shrink the government is my driving force in interest towards politics.

I would encourage you to start at the municipal and state level. Do not expect a lot of broad political-party support form people that you are going to reduce in status.

I thought about politics too, same reason, but I am going the media route.

 

[Testosterone boy]

I would encourage you to start at the municipal and state level. Do not expect a lot of broad political-party support form people that you are going to reduce in status.

I thought about politics too, same reason, but I am going the media route.

Yea.....it was fun to think about for a couple days but absolutely lacking in clear cut logic. I thought of 1/2 a dozen reasons why it was lunacy.

I had my "chance" but passed it up for so many reasons. Oh well, my carcass has not been added to the political landscape which has claimed so many.

Besides, how could one start at any level when his beliefs do not clearly align with any major existing party? Should a person invest in something with such an unclear future in such uncertain times when it is more fun to chat at EF and do whatever one pleases?

Going the media route eh? I thought you had it pretty good where you are.

 

[oubeta]

Am I turning Gay ? ? ?

Yes

 

[Ffactor]

Re: Re: An observation about so called "conservatives"

Yes

Didn't ask you mookie!!

 

[-SD-]

All I want to know is how I can make $100K a year after I get an MBA since MattSkywalker thinks that is chump change.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Most dictatorships are created out of hate for a common enemy. In the Middle East it has been Muslim sects against each other, or against Israel and the US, that has allowed those dictatorships toreign.

I think this is close, but a bit to the side. Most dicatatorships spring up when the people feel or are weak, lost or apathetic or in need of strong direction. "The excesses of freedom tend to lead to the excesses of bondage" (plato). This is also shown in a great many revloutions, french-> napolean, russian-> lenin, weak weimar republic-> hitler, even the rather apathetic people of Rome to Caesar. The tactic of having a common enemy is employed generally to maintain power by diverting attention away from the ruler, because as The Republic tells, the dictator becomes an enemy to his own people, since he has no real 'right' to power. Interestingly enough, this tactic was employed by rich whites, onto poorer white farmers through racism against blacks, to prevent a class struggle.

 

[Ffactor]

Some excellent posts on this thread. Should be moved to best of elite.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Yea.....it was fun to think about for a couple days but absolutely lacking in clear cut logic. I thought of 1/2 a dozen reasons why it was lunacy.

Going the media route eh? I thought you had it pretty good where you are.

I don't mean to discourage you. Local politics (as I am seeing here in Jax) often allows for newcomers to make waves. Less so the national scene, unless you have unlimited money. Few people do.

"Going the media route" just means that I want to get invovled in some media operations. That's 4-5 years away - there are a few other things I want to do first in order to alow for a smooth transition....

 

[Ffactor]

Better to start with a grass roots movement, I think you can make more of a difference.
Matt, since you are going into the media have you compared British Journalism to American. How do you think they measure up in terms of non-bias reporting.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Better to start with a grass roots movement, I think you can make more of a difference.
Matt, since you are going into the media have you compared British Journalism to American. How do you think they measure up in terms of non-bias reporting.

.


I don't want anything to do with journalism.

every outlet has their own biases.