An idea about controlled deliveries.....

[Lumberg]

I used to work for UPS as a jumper and loader so I knw a few things most people don't know about working for that co.

Now when a controlled delivery goes down the deliverer is ALWAYS an agent, correct?

Perhaps it would be a good idea for roid users to equip themselves with certain specific information about the professions that the agents imitate.

You know one of those tricks like "Hey I used to work for UPS--man it's great getting paid on the first and 15th isn't it buddy?" When in reality you get paid every 2 weeks on a tuesday regardless of date. IF the guy goes "yeah" he's busted, you know he's probably not a driver, go into refusal mode.

What do you guys think?

 

[white boy]

I think you will get a strange reaction from anyone that you say this to:
"Hey I used to work for so and so-- "man it's great getting paid on the first and 15th isn't it buddy?"

I personaly would'nt feel comfortable commiting a felony or not based on someones reaction to that question

I think if it came to that I would rely on my gut instinct

 

[ROID WARRIOR]

Has anyone had a controlled delivery from a private carrier? In any event, you'd have a more difficult time endeavoring to trip-up a USPIS postal inspector with minutae about the Service. Inspectors are employed by the Postal Service, and you'd probably be surprised at how many of them were previously letter carriers.

RW

 

[Lumberg]

ok SO ALL CONTROLLED DELIVERIES ARE DONE BY THE usps, not FedEx, UPS ,etc?

 

[Mike DiMaggio]

No you're correct, more often controlled deliveries are done by agents posing as UPS or Fedex carriers. Those packages are the ones more likely to be intercepted due to the relaxed regulations among private carriers regarding inspection of packages. USPS packages have to deal with the more "stringent" warrant requirements. However, I would have to agree with "Whiteboy" and bump his comments.

 

[Lumberg]

Well what are your suggestions then?

 

[Mike DiMaggio]

Well what are your suggestions then?

Hey I applaud your ingenuity but like Roid Warrior said, that might not work for the reasons mentioned. Now if you're asking me for ideas on how to outsmart the agents delivering your package, nice try. Unfortunately I can't teach you tricks for getting out of trouble beyond what Rick has done in LEGAL MUSCLE. Maybe one day Rick, Roid Warrior and I will write an anonymous book on "How to get your juice without getting busted" (LOL) but for now we'll just have to stick with the book on "How to avoid getting busted if you've already ordered juice and you think there might be a controlled delivery of the package."

That said, I don't mind playing devils' advocate when we're tossing these ideas around.

 

[Lumberg]

skinnydudeav.jpg

Hey I applaud your ingenuity but like Roid Warrior said, that might not work for the reasons mentioned. Now if you're asking me for ideas on how to outsmart the agents delivering your package, nice try. Unfortunately I can't teach you tricks for getting out of trouble beyond what Rick has done in LEGAL MUSCLE. Maybe one day Rick, Roid Warrior and I will write an anonymous book on "How to get your juice without getting busted" (LOL) but for now we'll just have to stick with the book on "How to avoid getting busted if you've already ordered juice and you think there might be a controlled delivery of the package."

That said, I don't mind playing devils' advocate when we're tossing these ideas around.

I don't get it.

Are you

a) not offering advice because there is stuff in the book you don't want to repeat, thus bringing down RC's book sales

b) not willing to give advice of such a nature becuse it is either against the law or seriously unethical for a lwyer to do

c) both

d) none of the above?

Please be honest, even if the answer is a, I know how things work around here and your honesty is appreciated. I know of many ulterior motives of some of the posters and mods here so if you come out and say it at least it won't be ulterior any more. There's nothing I can't stand more than abusing power and that's hypocrites.


I just attached a file because it let me.

 

[Citruscide]

Mike D might not be able to... haha

Part of the attorney code is that we don't help people break the law... in fact, my best advice to anyone is DON'T BREAK THE LAW!!! LOL

If for some reason you have crossed the line... and are now in fear you might get a controlled delivery... please, read legal muscle, that book can really open you eyes (and probably make you never want to get a delivery again!)... it can also save your ass... no joke there brolies and broliettes...

C-ditty

 

[Lumberg]

Hey just for the record, I have only ever done the legal anabolics, aka prohormones. I have no plans to go the illegal route because I can get results legally. And not that is not lip service, it is a fact.

I have always been a schemer and the idea of getting around things or getting away with things just resonates in my soul I guess LOL. I will also bring anything up that I feel might help my fellow bros because people on here don't deserve to be busted.

So I am not asking out of anything other that personal curiosity and a desire to help others.

 

[Mike DiMaggio]

Citruscide beat me to it!

Just for your piece of mind, the answer is "b."

Citruscide summed it up pretty well for me. As far as having alterior motives, I understand your concern as I also do not appreciate the "advertising" that is done under the guise of "information." It is quite prevalent on BB.com for instance, and the members appreciate when someone comes out and says hey I'm selling this product and this is why I believe it's better than that product.

In this case, Rick has come here to answer questions and keep the online bodybuilding world privy to the legal risks they may encounter. It's no secret that Rick's presence on the board and insight into such matters will entice those in search of more information and a greater understanding of their rights to buy his book. I mean it's advertised below every post. Citruscide, manny, Roid Warrior and myself derive no profit from posting in this forum. We just...well....I guess we have too much time on our hands that and we don't mind saving a few bros a trip to the big house.

 

[Citruscide]

Lumberg -- as an attorney, we can't tell you how to break the law... it kind of violates our code of ethics.

We can tell you how to not break the law... hence, not doing a crime... and what you can be found guilty for... and what not guilty for... but we can't tell you how to get around the claim... that's a pretty big violation of the rules of professional responsibility in every jurisdiction.

C-ditty

 

[Lumberg]

OK well then I have a perfect scenario for you guys.

I'm sure you are aware of the Brock Lesnar scenario where he was arrested, and later cleared because the pills they siezed in the controlled delivery operation weren't steroids after all.

SO, lets say you ordered some perfectly legal pills and/or ampoules. But you have reason to believe that the person you bought them from may have packaged them is such a way that if an officer of the law were to see the pills, he would probably think they were illegal. The shipment is delayed and you have a sneaking suspicion that the idiot LEs are going to do a controlled delivery.

You have NOT broken the law, but you want to avoid the hassle of taking a trip to the station and retaining a lawyer, and having to wait to get your legal merchandise.

In scenario such as this, what do you guys suggest one do to minimize the chances of giving LE a reason to take you into custody and search your dwelling?

PS Mike thanks for the explanation

 

[Citruscide]

You're welcome too Lumburg... lol

First off... even though the pills may be legal... the officers who thought they were AAS did so in honest belief... then they would have probable cause... and that would support the warrent... that would hold up in court... etc etc etc... it's the "good faith belief" --

The question would be is if a ordinarily reasonable officer would mistake those pills for AAS -- if so... then the PC will hold up under the good faith exception.

Having to pay for your time getting brought down there... just an inconvenience you have to deal with... I suppose. I'm not aware of any laws that give you a right to sue on this basis... perhaps Mike D is though.

C-ditty

 

[Lumberg]

Citrus--I'm not talking about suing, I'm just saying how can you approach the situation in such a way to avoind the search warrant? If you are sure that it is a controlled delivery, you refuse delivery. No-brainer.

But what tactics can you use to try to suss out if it is indeed a controlled delivery?

C'mon guys you're not helping me break the law here.

 

[Lumberg]

ba0-dump

 

[bwood]

Citrus--I'm not talking about suing, I'm just saying how can you approach the situation in such a way to avoind the search warrant? If you are sure that it is a controlled delivery, you refuse delivery. No-brainer.

But what tactics can you use to try to suss out if it is indeed a controlled delivery?

C'mon guys you're not helping me break the law here.

i would imagine that stating that you don't recognize the delivery person and asking for ID might be a good one...

a legit driver should not have a problem with that...an agent probably wouldnt want to show you their wallet badge...

ask for a supervisor's name and number to complement them on their exemplary service...after getting that, call it immediately in their presence to see if it checks out...even if it does, lie...say, "get off my porch, cop..." judge their response closely...

get to know your regular delivery person and find out their delivery area...ask the replacement about this...a hesitant/ different anwer is bad of course...

stuff of this nature could work depending on your ability to master your natural fear of law enforcement...

dont push it though, they could just shove the shit in your hands and hook you up...

 

[Lumberg]

i would imagine that stating that you don't recognize the delivery person and asking for ID might be a good one...

a legit driver should not have a problem with that...an agent probably wouldnt want to show you their wallet badge...

ask for a supervisor's name and number to complement them on their exemplary service...after getting that, call it immediately in their presence to see if it checks out...even if it does, lie...say, "get off my porch, cop..." judge their response closely...

get to know your regular delivery person and find out their delivery area...ask the replacement about this...a hesitant/ different anwer is bad of course...

stuff of this nature could work depending on your ability to master your natural fear of law enforcement...

dont push it though, they could just shove the shit in your hands and hook you up...

OK, those are some good ideas.

Con: if the package is legit, then the delivery dude might report back that the guy at this addy is super suspicious.....thus bringing further scrutiny down.

SO it's obviously a one time deal per delivery company. Especially the "get off my porch, cop" thing. THe ID and supervisor check is a good idea though.

 

[Mike DiMaggio]

Also, if the package is not "legit" and it is a controlled delivery, saying "get off my porch cop" is pretty suspicious. Even if you don't accept the package or sign for it, why would you be suspicious that your mail carrier would really be a government agent posing as a mail carrier...unless you were concerned that you were doing something illegal. Know what I mean? That might even factor in to probable cause.

Otherwise, very interesting suggestions...

 

[Lumberg]

I think asking for an ID badge and a supervisor phone number which you immediately call are both good ideas. That's just being paranoid.

Of course he could give the number of an agent that is waiting in a van around the corner, listening in on the conversation.

Still, it would throw all but the coolest of characters for a loop.

Keep the suggestions coming, it would take some serious bucks to create a fake UPS ID for the agent who is delivering the package, I think that's the best suggestion yet.

Hey I got another good one. Learn the name of the regular UPS driver for your route. Say his name is Greg. If someone else comes to your door, say "Where's Bob?" If he answers, "out sick," busted. Or you could be like "Which Bob are you talking about?" Or keep it going, like, you're kidding, Bob NEVER gets sick, are you sure?

etc.
etc.

 

[Juice2121]

Just an idea of knowing your route carriers name. I know my usps mail lady. If I ever get a dilivery from someone I don't know I have it planned out as follows.

1st--90%chance its controlled because she never misses.
2nd--I've told her to just pull in my drive and honk if she needs me to sign for something. No sense in her having to waste her time coming to the door(or that's how I explained it to her).
3rd--If someone does come to my door I will ask where is Martha. When her name is Trudy.
4th--If they awnser sick. I'll say "I thought she was going on vacation this week?". Gauge there reaction.
5th--If they awnser any of these questions snidly or as if they have no clue. I tell them it's not mine, sorry.


Juice21

 

[Mike DiMaggio]

Looks like you've given this alot of thought...

 

[Porky Pig]

Is it not another level of piece of mind to have a mailbox drop ?? Last time I used any they would sign and accept a package for your mailbox and you would be able to go there anytime... You get to pick the time to pick the item and they have to continually stake it out round the clock (lots of overtime) and it seperates your delivery from your address and therefore

A) eases the continual nagging paranoia that stuff like this SHOULD give you...

B) means any warrant is that additional step harder to obtain if busted depending on your ties and links at the address it may be possible to give an alternative if the house is not clean (your girlfriend may not be happy to have a search but a damn sight happier than you getting a full bust)... Of course your employment / social security record may tie you into your address in the US a lot more than I am used to.

Just another way to make it harder on LE...