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Almost A Majority of Rape Claims Are False

p0ink

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False Rape Allegations
Eugene J. Kanin, Ph.D.

Department of Sociology and Anthropology, Purdue University, 1365 Winthrop E. Stone Hall, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907-1365.

This article was posted by Gerry Harbison -- [email protected]. The comments in square brackets are his.


ABSTRACT:
With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. These false rape allegations constitute 41% the total forcible rape cases (n= 109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.

INTRODUCTION
[the author discusses the history of unfounded rape allegations, and how legitimate cases of rape were discounted until pressure from women's groups caused them to be taken more seriously. However, the pendulum has now swung the other way]

Currently, the two main identifiable adversaries involved in the false rape allegations controversy are the feminists and the police. The feminists are by far the most expressive and prominent on this issue. Some feminists take the position that the declaration of rape as false or unfounded largely means that the police do not believe the complainant; that is, the rape charges are real reflections of criminal assault, but the agents of the criminal justice system do not believe them (Brownmiller, 1975; Russell, 1984). Some feminists virtually deny the existence of false rape accusations and believe the concept itself constitutes discriminatory harassment toward women (see Grano, 1990). On the other hand, police are prone to say the reason for not believing some rape complainants resides in the fact that the rapes never occurred (Payton, 1967; Wilson, 1978; Jay, 1991). Medical Examiners lend support to this police position by emphasizing the ever-present possibility that rape complainants may be lying (Shill, 1969, 1971).

METHODS

[I've included these in full, since they're obviously crucial]

This investigation is essentially a case study of one police agency in a small metropolitan area (population = 70,000) in the Midwestern United States. This city was targeted for study because it offered an almost model laboratory for studying false rape allegations. First, its police agency is not inundated with serious felony cases and, therefore, has the freedom and the motivation to record and thoroughly pursue all rape complaints. In fact, agency policy forbids police officers to use their discretion in deciding whether to officially acknowledge a rape complaint, regardless how suspect that complaint may be. Second, the declaration of a false allegation follows a highly institutionalized procedure. The investigation of all rape complaints always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects. Additionally, for a declaration of false charge to be made, the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false. The police department will not declare a rape charge as false when the complainant, for whatever reason, fails to pursue the charge or cooperate on the case, regardless how much doubt the police may have regarding the validity of the charge.

In short, these cases are declared false only because the complainant admitted they are false. Furthermore, only one person is then empowered to enter into the records a formal declaration that the charge is false, the officer in charge of records. Last, it should be noted that this department does not confuse reported rape attempts with completed rapes. Thus, the rape complainants referred to in this paper are for completed forcible rapes only. The foregoing leaves us with a certain confidence that cases declared false by this police agency are indeed a reasonable- if not a minimal reflection of false rape allegations made to this agency, especially when one considers that a finding of false allegation is totally dependent upon the recantation of the rape charge.

We followed and investigated all false rape allegations from 1978 to 1987. A ranking police official notified us whenever a rape charge was declared false and provided us with the records of the case. In addition, the investigating officers provided any requested supplementary information so that we could be confident of the validity of the false rape allegation declarations.

FINDINGS

[The author notes that previous estimates of false rape reporting vary pretty much from 0 to 100% and probably reflect bias.]

Regarding this study, 41% (n= 45) of the total disposed rape cases (n= 109) were officially declared false during this 9-year period, that is, by the complainant's admission that no rape had occurred and the charge, therefore, was false. The incidence figure was variable from year to year and ranged from a low of 27% (3 out of Il cases) to a high of 70% (7 out of 10 cases). The 9-year period suggests no trends, and no explanation has been made for the year-to-year fluctuation.

[Author says recanted and unrecanted reports were from people indistinguishable by background]

The study of these 45 cases of false rape allegations inexorably led to the conclusion that these false charges were able to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, a means of gaining revenge, and a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. This tripartite model resulted from the complainants' own verbalizations during recantation and does not constitute conjecture. Of course, we are not asserting that these functions are mutually exclusive or exhaustive; rather, these rape recantations focused on a single factor explanation. A possible objection to these recantations concerns their validity. Rape recantations could be the result of the complainants' desire to avoid a "second assault" at the hands of the police. Rather than proceed with the real charge of rape, the argument goes, these women withdrew their accusations to avoid the trauma of police investigation.

Several responses are possible to this type of criticism. First, with very few exceptions, these complainants were suspect at the time of the complaint or within a day or two after charging. These recantations did not follow prolonged periods of investigation and interrogation that would constitute anything approximating a second assault. Second, not one of the detectives believed that an incident of false recantation had occurred. They argued, rather convincingly, that in those cases where a suspect was identified and interrogated, the facts of the recantation dovetailed with the suspect's own defense. Last, the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation. Although we certainly do not deny the possibility of false recantations, no evidence supports such an interpretation for these cases.

[there follows a long discussion of motivation for false reports]

RELATED FINDINGS

[this I found fascinating]

In addition to the foregoing, certain other findings and observations relevant to false allegations warrant comment. First, false allegations failed to include accusations of forced sexual acts other than penile-vaginal intercourse. Not one complainant mentions forced oral or anal sex. In contrast, these acts were included in approximately 25% of the rounded forcible rape complaints. Perhaps it was simply psychologically and socially more prudent for these women to minimize the humiliation of sexual victimization by not embroidering the event any more than necessary. This phenomenon has been observed previously (McDowell and Hibler, 1987).

[author notes that extortion was never found to be a motive. And now the important bit, IMHO]

One of the most haunting and serious implications of false rape allegations concerns the possibility of miscarried justice. We know that false convictions occur, but this study only tells us that these false accusers were weeded out during the very early stages of investigation. However encouraging this result may be, we cannot claim that false charging does not incur suffering for the accused. Merely to be a rape suspect, even for a day or two, translates into psychological and social trauma.

CONCLUSIONS

[a long discussion of how police procedures affect the reported incidence of false rape reporting. And the final summary...]

We may well be faced with the fact that the most efficient police departments report the higher incidence of false rape allegations. In view of these factors, perhaps the most prudent summary statement that is appropriate from these data is that false rape accusations are not uncommon. Since this effort is the first at a systematic, long-term, on-site investigation of false rape allegations from a single city, future studies in other cities, with comparable policies, must assess the representativeness of these findings.

ADDENDA

[Other studies on college campuses have come up with a figure of about 50% for false rape reports]

Quite unexpectedly then, we find that these university women, when filing a rape complaint, were as likely to file a false as a valid charge. Other reports from university police agencies support these findings (Jay, 1991). In both police agencies, the taking of the complaint and the follow-up investigation was the exclusive responsibility of a ranking female officer. Neither agency employed the polygraph and neither declared the complaint false without a recantation of the charge.

[There are obviously a few caveats, addenda and quid pro quos here. Nonetheless, I think those who question the need for thorough cross-examination of alleged rape victims should consider the fact that statistically, this study suggest that there is about a 50% chance they're lying.]
----

for more interesting information on these vile women, check out:
http://www.menweb.org/throop/falsereport/adult.html

one more thing, KOBE IS INNOCENT!!
 
Last edited:
if a female knowingly makes a false accusation of rape, she should be sentenced to jail for the maximum equivalent of what the guy could have been sentenced to if convicted for her lies.

to my knowledge, there is very little a guy can do once falsely convicted of rape besides suing her in court. she will never see any criminal actions taken against her.

things need to change.
 
2Thick said:
DUH!

What's next for us, Professor Poink? A study that proves that the earth is round?

this is for all of those people who are ready to lynch kobe bryant (who is innocent) for having consentual sex with this white-trash nobody.
 
p0ink said:


this is for all of those people who are ready to lynch kobe bryant (who is innocent) for having consentual sex with this white-trash nobody.

He deserves whatever comes to him with this. If he were not cheating on his lawful wife then he would not be exposed to attention whores like the bitch that accused him.

Action and reaction.
 
2Thick said:


He deserves whatever comes to him with this. If he were not cheating on his lawful wife then he would not be exposed to attention whores like the bitch that accused him.

Action and reaction.

Getting crabs or his wife divorcing him and taking his money is a good "reaction". Felony charges, not really balanced.
 
2Thick said:


He deserves whatever comes to him with this. If he were not cheating on his lawful wife then he would not be exposed to attention whores like the bitch that accused him.

Action and reaction.

Its a shit sandwich and everyone involved has to take a big juicy bite before its all said and done with.
 
p0ink said:
if a female knowingly makes a false accusation of rape, she should be sentenced to jail for the maximum equivalent of what the guy could have been sentenced to if convicted for her lies.

to my knowledge, there is very little a guy can do once falsely convicted of rape besides suing her in court. she will never see any criminal actions taken against her.

things need to change.


I agree...this is sickening...crazy bitches
 
that's pretty eye-opening but, "almost a majority" is still a minority.

regardless of whether he raped her or not, he's still a piece of shit.
 
p0ink said:
False Rape Allegations
Eugene J. Kanin, Ph.D.

Department of Sociology and Anthropology, Purdue University, 1365 Winthrop E. Stone Hall, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907-1365.

This article was posted by Gerry Harbison -- [email protected]. The comments in square brackets are his.


ABSTRACT:
With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. These false rape allegations constitute 41% the total forcible rape cases (n= 109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.

INTRODUCTION
[the author discusses the history of unfounded rape allegations, and how legitimate cases of rape were discounted until pressure from women's groups caused them to be taken more seriously. However, the pendulum has now swung the other way]

Currently, the two main identifiable adversaries involved in the false rape allegations controversy are the feminists and the police. The feminists are by far the most expressive and prominent on this issue. Some feminists take the position that the declaration of rape as false or unfounded largely means that the police do not believe the complainant; that is, the rape charges are real reflections of criminal assault, but the agents of the criminal justice system do not believe them (Brownmiller, 1975; Russell, 1984). Some feminists virtually deny the existence of false rape accusations and believe the concept itself constitutes discriminatory harassment toward women (see Grano, 1990). On the other hand, police are prone to say the reason for not believing some rape complainants resides in the fact that the rapes never occurred (Payton, 1967; Wilson, 1978; Jay, 1991). Medical Examiners lend support to this police position by emphasizing the ever-present possibility that rape complainants may be lying (Shill, 1969, 1971).

METHODS

[I've included these in full, since they're obviously crucial]

This investigation is essentially a case study of one police agency in a small metropolitan area (population = 70,000) in the Midwestern United States. This city was targeted for study because it offered an almost model laboratory for studying false rape allegations. First, its police agency is not inundated with serious felony cases and, therefore, has the freedom and the motivation to record and thoroughly pursue all rape complaints. In fact, agency policy forbids police officers to use their discretion in deciding whether to officially acknowledge a rape complaint, regardless how suspect that complaint may be. Second, the declaration of a false allegation follows a highly institutionalized procedure. The investigation of all rape complaints always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects. Additionally, for a declaration of false charge to be made, the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false. The police department will not declare a rape charge as false when the complainant, for whatever reason, fails to pursue the charge or cooperate on the case, regardless how much doubt the police may have regarding the validity of the charge.

In short, these cases are declared false only because the complainant admitted they are false. Furthermore, only one person is then empowered to enter into the records a formal declaration that the charge is false, the officer in charge of records. Last, it should be noted that this department does not confuse reported rape attempts with completed rapes. Thus, the rape complainants referred to in this paper are for completed forcible rapes only. The foregoing leaves us with a certain confidence that cases declared false by this police agency are indeed a reasonable- if not a minimal reflection of false rape allegations made to this agency, especially when one considers that a finding of false allegation is totally dependent upon the recantation of the rape charge.

We followed and investigated all false rape allegations from 1978 to 1987. A ranking police official notified us whenever a rape charge was declared false and provided us with the records of the case. In addition, the investigating officers provided any requested supplementary information so that we could be confident of the validity of the false rape allegation declarations.

FINDINGS

[The author notes that previous estimates of false rape reporting vary pretty much from 0 to 100% and probably reflect bias.]

Regarding this study, 41% (n= 45) of the total disposed rape cases (n= 109) were officially declared false during this 9-year period, that is, by the complainant's admission that no rape had occurred and the charge, therefore, was false. The incidence figure was variable from year to year and ranged from a low of 27% (3 out of Il cases) to a high of 70% (7 out of 10 cases). The 9-year period suggests no trends, and no explanation has been made for the year-to-year fluctuation.

[Author says recanted and unrecanted reports were from people indistinguishable by background]

The study of these 45 cases of false rape allegations inexorably led to the conclusion that these false charges were able to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, a means of gaining revenge, and a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. This tripartite model resulted from the complainants' own verbalizations during recantation and does not constitute conjecture. Of course, we are not asserting that these functions are mutually exclusive or exhaustive; rather, these rape recantations focused on a single factor explanation. A possible objection to these recantations concerns their validity. Rape recantations could be the result of the complainants' desire to avoid a "second assault" at the hands of the police. Rather than proceed with the real charge of rape, the argument goes, these women withdrew their accusations to avoid the trauma of police investigation.

Several responses are possible to this type of criticism. First, with very few exceptions, these complainants were suspect at the time of the complaint or within a day or two after charging. These recantations did not follow prolonged periods of investigation and interrogation that would constitute anything approximating a second assault. Second, not one of the detectives believed that an incident of false recantation had occurred. They argued, rather convincingly, that in those cases where a suspect was identified and interrogated, the facts of the recantation dovetailed with the suspect's own defense. Last, the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation. Although we certainly do not deny the possibility of false recantations, no evidence supports such an interpretation for these cases.

[there follows a long discussion of motivation for false reports]

RELATED FINDINGS

[this I found fascinating]

In addition to the foregoing, certain other findings and observations relevant to false allegations warrant comment. First, false allegations failed to include accusations of forced sexual acts other than penile-vaginal intercourse. Not one complainant mentions forced oral or anal sex. In contrast, these acts were included in approximately 25% of the rounded forcible rape complaints. Perhaps it was simply psychologically and socially more prudent for these women to minimize the humiliation of sexual victimization by not embroidering the event any more than necessary. This phenomenon has been observed previously (McDowell and Hibler, 1987).

[author notes that extortion was never found to be a motive. And now the important bit, IMHO]

One of the most haunting and serious implications of false rape allegations concerns the possibility of miscarried justice. We know that false convictions occur, but this study only tells us that these false accusers were weeded out during the very early stages of investigation. However encouraging this result may be, we cannot claim that false charging does not incur suffering for the accused. Merely to be a rape suspect, even for a day or two, translates into psychological and social trauma.

CONCLUSIONS

[a long discussion of how police procedures affect the reported incidence of false rape reporting. And the final summary...]

We may well be faced with the fact that the most efficient police departments report the higher incidence of false rape allegations. In view of these factors, perhaps the most prudent summary statement that is appropriate from these data is that false rape accusations are not uncommon. Since this effort is the first at a systematic, long-term, on-site investigation of false rape allegations from a single city, future studies in other cities, with comparable policies, must assess the representativeness of these findings.

ADDENDA

[Other studies on college campuses have come up with a figure of about 50% for false rape reports]

Quite unexpectedly then, we find that these university women, when filing a rape complaint, were as likely to file a false as a valid charge. Other reports from university police agencies support these findings (Jay, 1991). In both police agencies, the taking of the complaint and the follow-up investigation was the exclusive responsibility of a ranking female officer. Neither agency employed the polygraph and neither declared the complaint false without a recantation of the charge.

[There are obviously a few caveats, addenda and quid pro quos here. Nonetheless, I think those who question the need for thorough cross-examination of alleged rape victims should consider the fact that statistically, this study suggest that there is about a 50% chance they're lying.]
----

for more interesting information on these vile women, check out:
http://www.menweb.org/throop/falsereport/adult.html

one more thing, KOBE IS INNOCENT!!


I'd think this "study" would have more merit if it were conducted in a city larger than 70,000, espeically a town with a large (20,000+) university. now if it were a NATION WIDE study then I'd really be buying this.

Also, I don't have the statistics, but there are rapes that are not reported.
 
Re: Re: Almost A Majority of Rape Claims Are False

The Nature Boy said:

Also, I don't have the statistics, but there are rapes that are not reported.

A very large number of crimes are not reported. I am willing to be that the majority of real rapes are not reported because the woman is far to scared, intimidated, and confused by the experience.

Especially if the woman is drunk she might not even be sure if it really happened.
 
While I think falsely claiming is probably the worst thing you could do to a man; I don't hear any men lamenting about all the real rapes that go unreported because the female fears the backlash and judgement upon her own life.


Goes both ways boys.

BOTH WAYS
 
velvett said:
While I think falsely claiming is probably the worst thing you could do to a man; I don't hear any men lamenting about all the real rapes that go unreported because the female fears the backlash and judgement upon her own life.


Goes both ways boys.

BOTH WAYS

No.

If you don't hear it, remove your ear plugs.

Many men are deeply disturbed by rape, and would like to see it get the death penalty. Many.

I am among them.

Perhaps it's the kind of company I keep, though.
 
as if you would hear from those guys who "lamented" about what transpired
 
Imakarum_Mirabilis said:


No.

If you don't hear it, remove your ear plugs.

Many men are deeply disturbed by rape, and would like to see it get the death penalty. Many.

I am among them.

Perhaps it's the kind of company I keep, though.


I am directing my statement to the Kobe supporters on todays Kobe threads that assume without reason that the girl that he allegedly raped is a gold digging whore.

So I suggest you not assume the type of company I keep.
 
Someone very close to me was raped as a child...


The story infuriated me to the point of tears...


I would give anything to be able to find the rapist.

His name is "Howard" and that's all I know...


The person who it happened to will not tell me anything else abuot them becuase they know I may not be able to resist acting out retribution.

This person was 12 years old when it happened.
 
4everhung said:
as if you would hear from those guys who "lamented" about what transpired

I think if a man's mother, daughter or sister were raped they would lament and certainly change their minds about being one sided if they did not already have an open mind.
 
velvett said:
While I think falsely claiming is probably the worst thing you could do to a man; I don't hear enough (edited for Imakarum_Mirabilis -coz he's right) men lamenting about all the real rapes that go unreported because the female fears the backlash and judgement upon her own life.


Goes both ways boys.

BOTH WAYS
 
I spoke only of the company *I* keep, Velvett.

As for directing your post at those people, I couldn't see it. Perhaps because it was not mentioned.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Frackal, I have been in a similar situation. More than once. Heaven help them if I am ever in a position to do the right thing.
 
Imakarum_Mirabilis said:
As for directing your post at those people, I couldn't see it. Perhaps because it was not mentioned.



You're right bad assumption.

Sometimes I forget others don't live in my brain and I need to explain more.
 
I am known to make the same mistakes, among many others. No worries.
 
velvett said:
I don't hear any men lamenting about all the real rapes that go unreported because the female fears the backlash and judgement upon her own life.


Goes both ways boys.

BOTH WAYS

Did you ignore my post? that is what i said
 
No , they should be subjected to the same ass-raping sentence which men would get should they be convicted..........
oh what am I sayin , this is elite :rolleyes: ok girls , no crowding now..
 
I think the whole Kobe thing is a clear case of you reap what you sow.

He could have easily just gotten head from her and nutted in her hair instead of going all the way with her.
 
the problem is as soon as its proven false rape, the woman automatically gets 'help' as she must be psychologically unsond to have made the allegation

they should do a psyche exam b4 trial and if it appears she;s psychologically sound she should be liable to the same sort of sentence


its terrible that so many rapes go unreported, from what i understand its a lot. but simply ignoring false claims or making it EASIER for a rape conviction is NOT the answer, that discriminatory against the accused, and it means normal justice has been changed in order to suit the prosecutor
 
"Almost"??

"Almost a majority" then in fact means "not a majority" which then basically states "most of the time, claims of rape are in fact legitimate".

Your intended article reference for proof just further goes to defeat your idea and show that in fact, the opposite is true.

While it is a common thing for people to mix words in order to convey a new meaning - you are doing it poorly and come off as ignorant and inept - I would hope that you could do better than that.
 
MarthaStewart said:
"Almost"??


Almost is my favorite word, I use it all day everyday:

"Yes boss, I almost finished that linux distro."

"Yeah, I'll almost pay you what we owe you."

"I almost get laid everytime I meet a hot chick."
 
Here's some more statistics for rape that might open some eyes.

1) One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime

2) In 2001 only 39% of rapes were reported to police.

3) Aprox. 66% of the victims know their assailant.

4) If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made.

If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution.

If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction.

If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail.

So, even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison.

Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists—1 out of 16— will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free.


For more information

http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html
 
big4life said:


1) One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime

This is a fucking shame and something that *deeply* upsets me, and most men I know as well. Especially since I know more than 6 women.


2) In 2001 only 39% of rapes were reported to police.

3) Aprox. 66% of the victims know their assailant.

I have very little sympathy for women who dont report it to the police, especially those who know the assailant since its easier to indentify who did it.
 
big4life said:
Here's some more statistics for rape that might open some eyes.

1) One out of every six American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime

2) In 2001 only 39% of rapes were reported to police.

3) Aprox. 66% of the victims know their assailant.

4) If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made.

If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution.

If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction.

If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail.

So, even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison.

Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists—1 out of 16— will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free.


For more information

http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html
I'll bet almost every one of those stats are substantially off.


What a damned mess. Women that don't report it? Women who lie about it? Both of those groups really screw things up.




On another note, do you figure that men with smallish endowments would be less likely to be reported?

What an act of absolute animalism, proven rapists should have nuts removed. Seriously.
 
Testosterone boy said:
I'll bet almost every one of those stats are substantially off.


What a damned mess. Women that don't report it? Women who lie about it? Both of those groups really screw things up.




On another note, do you figure that men with smallish endowments would be less likely to be reported?

What an act of absolute animalism, proven rapists should have nuts removed. Seriously.

The stats are "almost" right.
 
I personally do not think most reported rapes are false reports. I don't think Kobe raped this girl, but I believe most rape reports are legit.
 
Apparently conservatives must hate women. This 'false rape accusation' crap is all over Hannity, O'Riley, Boortz, Limbaugh etc.

Funny though. Whenever someone brings up Clinton's alleged rape of Juanita Broaddrick they do a complete 180 on their attitude.
 
hellboy said:
Apparently conservatives must hate women. This 'false rape accusation' crap is all over Hannity, O'Riley, Boortz, Limbaugh etc.

Please justify, with logic, why presenting studies on rape somehow equals hatred of women? Is this the same logic that states that anyone who presents statistical data on crime and race is an obvious "racist"?

Funny though. Whenever someone brings up Clinton's alleged rape of Juanita Broaddrick they do a complete 180 on their attitude.

If this were the only case for Clinton you might have an argument. Prior to his presidency, Clinton had allegations of improper conduct in Arkansas. It is called a trend.
 
The misnomer here is that rape is different from any other crime. With all crimes statistically false accusations out number real crimes.

I've always wondered how murder factored into that stat when you have a bullet riddled body to confirm that a homicide has taken place.
 
Tarheel said:

I have very little sympathy for women who dont report it to the police, especially those who know the assailant since its easier to indentify who did it.

This is very ignorant of you.

The women that don't report it were either intoxicated so they are not entierly sure if it even happend at all.

Or they where scared, and for good reason. If they report it they can not be sure that the bastard will be convicted. I don't think I need to say what could happen if the guy is not convicted.
 
A legal transgression was committed against them. A crime as we call it.

Not reporting it is a crime, a crime against the rest of society. Its a crime against thier cousins, thier daughters, and every female they know. Its a crime against every man who's ever loved a woman or his daughter as well.

Although I agree there could be repercussions if the man isn't convicted. Buts thats the way it is with *every* criminal act.
 
velvett said:

that the girl that he allegedly raped is a gold digging whore.

she most certainly is. . .also an attention whore. She has multiple emotional problems along with a history of drug usage. She is young and incredibly stupid. . based on her given stats.

What Kobe did is wrong, but why did she go to his room and report the incident 12 hours after the sexual encounter?
 
Apparently conservatives must hate women. This 'false rape accusation' crap is all over Hannity, O'Riley, Boortz, Limbaugh etc.

jay leno also said he was innocent.

she seems to be a fucked up woman with emotional probs. her life is obviously spinning out of control. i think things didnt go the way she wanted, so she did this.

you have to admit, this would be a great form of revenge.
 
louden_swain said:


she most certainly is. . .also an attention whore. She has multiple emotional problems along with a history of drug usage. She is young and incredibly stupid. . based on her given stats.

What Kobe did is wrong, but why did she go to his room and report the incident 12 hours after the sexual encounter?


I really don't care about this Kobe story - nor do I care for the out come. UNfortunately when there is a known celebrity involved it changes everything.

On the other hand, your 12 hour comment is complete bullshit - you just have no idea what goes through the mind of a person who just had a penis forced insided them.

To report the incident would mean one is prepared to be acused of being a whore, or that they asked for it some way, or they were probably drunk or on drugs and that they are anything but a victim. MOst women would rather live with it that make their experience public.

Anyone remember the jogger in NYC that was gang raped in Central Park? EVeryone thought she wanted it too - that had planned the whole this - that she was a whore.


Just as there is the possiblity of a man being accesed of a crime wrongly (I know one personally and he's still in Leavenworth for a rape he did not commit) there is the possiblity that a woman that claims to be raped has been.
 
Hmmmmm

her being fucked up woman with emotional problems is not the point.

There are lots of fucked up women out there who have been raped, and lots who hvae not.

Point is, being a dumbass, being fucked up, or being drunk are not against the law.

Being a rapist is against the law.

I really don't give a shit about some basketball player in the news in a country 5k miles from me so I have no opinion on the guy in this case.

BUT It really pisses me off when people say, "oh, the woman had emotional problems, therefore, she could not have been the victim of a crime". There was a period of about 2 years when I was pretyt badly mentally ill. However, I was pretty clear as to what was real and waht was not. Only a very small minority of mentally ill or disturbed folks actuall get delusions have trouble telling fantasy from reality.

I think a lot of this blame the victim crap comes from people's fear of crime. Rape is a horrifically common crime. So is child abuse and molestation. Thing is, no-one ever talks about it.

Something like 1 in 8 children are molested by someone before the age of 12. (Source, a reputable study done in Ireland in the early 1990s). Does this mean all adults are pedophiles? No, it means a small number of assholes commit crimes against a great many kids.

Similarly, it's my belief that there aren't that many rapists out there, just that they get around. They get off on raping women. Kinda like a serial killer, without the murder bit. So there always has to be a fresh victim, then another, and another....

No-one wants to believe that they could be next, so they blame the woman and assume it didn't happen, won't happen, and couldn't happen to them.

yes rapists pick a victim, however they pick someone they think will be easy to overpower, not someone who is wearing a short skirt etc. Hence why so many rapists attack kids (see stats above).

One solution is to ARM women. Get a concealed carry permit and be ready to use it if necessary. That'll teach some asshole they can't just walk all over a woman because she's smaller and lighter.

Since my govt don't allow citizens to carry weapons (grrrr) I don't have that option. Those of you that do - use it. And get the necessary training.
 
ABL: Please justify, with logic, why presenting studies on rape somehow equals hatred of women?

Me: Well not necessarily Hatred. Apparently sarcasm is lost on you. The fact is that the talk hosts are tossing these statistics around in a way that does seem to be an attack on women in general. Attempting to paint them as liars and gold diggers. Hannity stated yesterday that he would never allow himself to be alone with a woman who wasn't related to him - just for this reason. Boortz said (Im paraphrasing) - "I've seen pictures of her and she's obviously a tramp." Yeah right. Because you can always judge someone by a polaroid.

ABL: If this were the only case for Clinton you might have an argument. Prior to his presidency, Clinton had allegations of improper conduct in Arkansas. It is called a trend.

Me: Really? I can't seem to find any mention of names, dates or times for any of these other allegations. I thought trends needed more than one occurance.
 
hellboy said:
Me: Really? I can't seem to find any mention of names, dates or times for any of these other allegations. I thought trends needed more than one occurance.

Juannita Broderick
Paula Jones
The infamous Jane Doe #5, who of course was never revealed.

I think 3 is enough to establish at the least, a tendency. Probably not a pattern.
 
Actually Jane Doe #5 was revealed to be Juanita Broderick. I'll give you Paula Jones. That makes 2.

Now lets go back to the OP's topic that 'almost a majority' of reported rapes are false. Remember that? So that makes what? Almost one rape?

Regardless - My point is not whether or not Clinton or Kobe raped anyone. My point was that the conservatives are incapable of being consistent on this issue. The girl accusing Kobe is automatically being labeled a liar because of the statistics. However - bring up Clinton and rape and whoaaa. Wait a minute! These other women MUST be telling the truth. Forget the statistics if it's Clinton. Even though the allegations against Clinton are every bit as unproven as the ones against Kobe.
 
hellboy said:


The girl accusing Kobe is automatically being labeled a liar because of the statistics.

I don't think anyone called her a liar.
I think the point being made from the Right is that Clearly there are facts that we should take into consideration, especially those related to false rape claims.

The true fact of the matter is that *we* should not be taking anything into consideration, since we are not the jury, nor has this even gone to trial.

One thing I have noticed is that if this were a true claim, and I were Kobe, I'd move to settle the matter with cash. He may have tried it and failed. But I know if it were false, I'd sure as hell fight it in court.
 
as for the kobe accuser:

her friends told reporters she was bragging about how good kobe was in the sack at a party 3 days after the alleged rape.

her friends told reporters she has a thing for basketball players and how she likes to go to denver when the nuggets are in town to 'hang out' with them.

the police were already at her house two times in the past couple of weeks, but these records are sealed. could it be because anopther lady with the same last name works in the prosecutor's office? oh yeah, there is only 1 family with that name in her town.

hm..

NOT GUILTY!

once this bitch is found out to be a liar, i hope kobe's lawyers do everything humanly possible to destroy her for lying about such a horrible thing. i want them to get the message out that this kind of shit will no longer be tolerated, so if you do it, you better watch your ass.
 
The talk show hosts that I've been listening to this week - specifically Hannity and Boortz - are calling her a liar and a gold digger. They are using those very words and they are making blatant attacks on her character. I haven't listened to Limbaugh or ORiley this week but they usually all parrot each other.

I agree with what you are saying though - sort of - and that's exactly what irritates me about how the conservatives are handling this. They are essentially passing judgement on her via the media and using these statistics as their only hard evidence. These same statistics however are NEVER brought up when the Clinton subject comes up.

I will be very surprised if this goes to a full trial.
 
p0ink said:
as for the kobe accuser:

her friends told reporters she was bragging about how good kobe was in the sack at a party 3 days after the alleged rape.

her friends told reporters she has a thing for basketball players and how she likes to go to denver when the nuggets are in town to 'hang out' with them.

the police were already at her house two times in the past couple of weeks, but these records are sealed. could it be because anopther lady with the same last name works in the prosecutor's office? oh yeah, there is only 1 family with that name in her town.

hm..

NOT GUILTY!

once this bitch is found out to be a liar, i hope kobe's lawyers do everything humanly possible to destroy her for lying about such a horrible thing. i want them to get the message out that this kind of shit will no longer be tolerated, so if you do it, you better watch your ass.

it's all hearsay.

if this chick is lying, then she should get the same punishment that kobe would get if found guilty. rape and lying about rape is terrible.
 
p0ink said:
as for the kobe accuser:

her friends told reporters she was bragging about how good kobe was in the sack at a party 3 days after the alleged rape.

her friends told reporters she has a thing for basketball players and how she likes to go to denver when the nuggets are in town to 'hang out' with them.

the police were already at her house two times in the past couple of weeks, but these records are sealed. could it be because anopther lady with the same last name works in the prosecutor's office? oh yeah, there is only 1 family with that name in her town.

hm..

NOT GUILTY!

once this bitch is found out to be a liar, i hope kobe's lawyers do everything humanly possible to destroy her for lying about such a horrible thing. i want them to get the message out that this kind of shit will no longer be tolerated, so if you do it, you better watch your ass.


With friends like this, who needs enemies?


Oh yeah, what is the news source for this information?
 
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I should also state that IF it does go to trial AND Kobe is found innocent THEN I agree that she should be held accountable for her actions. Just as he should be if he is found guilty.

But it's ludicrous to say right now at this time what really happened. Hersay from a bunch of high school kids is hardly something you can take as hard evidence.
 
Apparently one of her friends was interviewed and he said she was bragging about the entire incident at a party 1 week ago.

I am telling you. . . . there is too much dirt on this girl and it will fuck her in court. Can you imagine what the defense is digging at this current moment?
 
p0ink said:
as for the kobe accuser:

her friends told reporters she was bragging about how good kobe was in the sack at a party 3 days after the alleged rape.

her friends told reporters she has a thing for basketball players and how she likes to go to denver when the nuggets are in town to 'hang out' with them.

the police were already at her house two times in the past couple of weeks, but these records are sealed. could it be because anopther lady with the same last name works in the prosecutor's office? oh yeah, there is only 1 family with that name in her town.

hm..

NOT GUILTY!

once this bitch is found out to be a liar, i hope kobe's lawyers do everything humanly possible to destroy her for lying about such a horrible thing. i want them to get the message out that this kind of shit will no longer be tolerated, so if you do it, you better watch your ass.

Exactly!!!
 
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