ALA is worthless for the non-obese

[kbrkbr]

Wasn't Sigmond Roid the clown who claimed that chinese gh was bunk a few months ago?

 

[Johnny Cut]

i like regular ALA and R-ALA, bothwork well with what i am trying to do.....take over the world

 

[hhajdo]

I guess that Sigmunds point was that R-ALA doesn't improve glucose transport in skeletal muscle in insulin sensitive subjects....
I can't believe that someone would call him a clown just because he expressed his opinion and started an interesting thread...


Some important points of the study are:

- No increases in GLUT-4 protein level were observed in either muscle type after chronic treatment with R-ALA.
- R-ALA treatment in the insulin-sensitive subjects does not result in a further improvement of insulin-stimulated glucose transport in skeletal muscle compared with the effects of exercise training alone
- chronic use of R-ALA led to a trend toward a higher glucose-insulin index compared with sedentary control
- after R-ALA treatment whole body insulin sensitivity slightly worsened.


This part is probably more important for the majority:


An important observation in the present study is that chronic treatment of lean animals with R-ALA was associated with a significantly reduced rate of body weight gain (Table 1). As lean mass was apparently not affected (muscle wet weights were not different between sedentary and R-ALA-treated animals), the difference in body mass was likely due to a difference in fat mass. It has previously been noted that, in older rats, chronic treatment with R-ALA leads to increases in ambulatory activity and hepatocellular oxygen consumption (8), and we have also found increases in metabolic enzyme activities (hexokinase and citrate synthase; Figs. 5 and 6) in skeletal muscle of the R-ALA-treated animals. The possibility exists that chronic R-ALA treatment can increase the expression of specific genes involved in metabolism, allowing for an increase in metabolic and ambulatory activity and ultimately leading to a reduced body weight gain.

So R-ALA decreases fat mass even in insulin SENSITIVE subjects....

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I guess that Sigmunds point was that R-ALA doesn't improve glucose transport in skeletal muscle in insulin sensitive subjects....
I can't believe that someone would call him a clown just because he expressed his opinion and started an interesting thread...

here is why... and such criticism give the breadth and innaccuracy of the statement is likely warranted..

If you are not fat and have a normal insulin sensitivity, then r-ALA does not do a thing for you. I hope that finally the r-ALA hype started by the sellers who are very active on the boards (for some reason even the steroid boards as if ALA is a steroid), will discontinue now, and that people save their money for something that DOES work. I still think it is allright to use ALA during DNP or GH cycles, but not for anything else, maybe except for the liver protective properties.

and with respect ot your points .. some of which are still are dispute

- R-ALA treatment in the insulin-sensitive subjects does not result in a further improvement of insulin-stimulated glucose transport in skeletal muscle compared with the effects of exercise training alone

only with respect to time of ingestion.. and not accounting for glucose loading... and it also fails to take into account (at least directly) the benefits of plasma insulin reduction.

 

[hhajdo]

Well, I definitely don't think that r-ALA is worthless ...
They did perform Oral glucose tolerance tests, but ~15 hours after r-ALA administration....

 

[Frackal]

There's paper and then there's anecdotal evidence, and I trust the results I've seen for myself over a study like this...besides...I take too much r-ala and I go hypo... so you cant tell me that it doesnt enhance glucose disposal... I'm 21 (bday today actually) and an ectomorph

 

[macrophage69alpha]

 

[xonic2xonic]

Is it true that glucophage is significantly more effective at improving insulin response, is also much cheaper and therefore if one can tolerate it's possible side effects, a more sensible approach?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Is it true that glucophage is significantly more effective at improving insulin response, is also much cheaper and therefore if one can tolerate it's possible side effects, a more sensible approach?

no..

it is only better at glocuse clearance..and even that is debatable

 

[xonic2xonic]

I have still to try any ALA product. I think I will very soon. What was the suggested dosage again for fat loss, 100mg with high carb meals, something like 300-500/day?

Also, I am very interested to know if there is a reported rebound effect when going "off."