Actual Quotes from the Koran

[Arabian]

I thought this was interesting about the Koran,



Actual Quotes from the Koran
The Muslim Bible commands Muslims to murder all non-Muslims:

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

 

[jackangel]

move this shit to the spanish board

 

[FISHTALES]

move this shit to the spanish board

fukin a, I hate australians

 

[CrazyK]

I'm Muslim,...and those quotes are severly misquoted and/or just plain made up.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I'm Muslim,...and those quotes are severly misquoted and/or just plain made up.

Probably made up by Jews huh? Who knows what to believe anymore. That whole area is a mess.

 

[Subzeero]

Probably made up by Jews huh? Who knows what to believe anymore. That whole area is a mess.

hansel bro they are not made up at all. Unless you are being sarcastic.

Ok you are being sarcastic...

hehe.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

hansel bro they are not made up at all. Unless you are being sarcastic.

Ok you are being sarcastic...

hehe.

It is very hard to find credible sources these days though. There are more mistruths than truths, especially on the interwebz.

 

[Subzeero]

It is very hard to find credible sources these days though. There are more mistruths than truths, especially on the interwebz.

I have three english translations of the quran. And i have been through this before.

 

[H_T_]

so? who really gives a damn? i live in America and honestly don't give a flying fuck about anything going on in other countries. and wow, being Muslim sounds like a fucking riot. where do i sign up? oh, sorry, i already had 77 virgins or whatever. i don't need a Deity to get laid.

 

[Subzeero]

so? who really gives a damn? i live in America and honestly don't give a flying fuck about anything going on in other countries. and wow, being Muslim sounds like a fucking riot. where do i sign up? oh, sorry, i already had 77 virgins or whatever. i don't need a Deity to get laid.

 

[H_T_]

stfu, men are talking.

 

[Subzeero]

stfu, men are talking.

str8 men?

 

[CrazyK]

I have three english translations of the quran. And i have been through this before.

You obviously haven't read them, because those are not direct quotes from the Quran. Not to mention that the only Quran's written truly in the original language, and give the real meaning/purpose are written in Arabic. Some people even say you haven't read the Quran until you've read it in Arabic.

 

[manny78]

You obviously haven't read them, because those are not direct quotes from the Quran. Not to mention that the only Quran's written truly in the original language, and give the real meaning/purpose are written in Arabic. Some people even say you haven't read the Quran until you've read it in Arabic.

So show us the legit quotes. What do they say ? Instead of being crucified he shall be given a Flat Screen ?

 

[Subzeero]

You obviously haven't read them, because those are not direct quotes from the Quran. Not to mention that the only Quran's written truly in the original language, and give the real meaning/purpose are written in Arabic. Some people even say you haven't read the Quran until you've read it in Arabic.

thats donkey shit. And then translations get even more complex when scholars argue that translation now is different from translation then 1600 years ago in ARABIC! So you should say that you havn't really read the quran unless you have read it in arabic 1600 years ago.

In which case anybody living today is completely exempt of any sin in mistranslation of the quran in the court of your God.

 

[Subzeero]

stfu, men are talking.

wah! i was just being freindly... Sorry to hurt your feelings man.

 

[CrazyK]

thats donkey shit. And then translations get even more complex when scholars argue that translation now is different from translation then 1600 years ago in ARABIC! So you should say that you havn't really read the quran unless you have read it in arabic 1600 years ago.

In which case anybody living today is completely exempt of any sin in mistranslation of the quran in the court of your God.

People have twisted translations of the quran to such extends to make it more legitimate that they haven't realized that they have reached around and debased their own asses.

The Quran, in Arabic form, hasn't ever been changed. It's the same word for word...can't say that for the Bible and/or the Torah.

To Manny- Post quotes of what? All I'm saying is that those Quotes do not exist lol, sure I can tell you some of the Quran, but it's not going to have anything to do with what these ignorant fools are talking about.

 

[manny78]

The Quran, in Arabic form, hasn't ever been changed. It's the same word for word...can't say that for the Bible and/or the Torah.

To Manny- Post quotes of what? All I'm saying is that those Quotes do not exist lol, sure I can tell you some of the Quran, but it's not going to have anything to do with what these ignorant fools are talking about.

So the Quran says nothing about infidels ? Apostasy ? There's no mention about crucifixion or chopping hand and feets on opposite sides ? You mean that stoning folks is just bs ? Come on dude....

 

[bw1]

stfu, men are talking.

lol

 

[Subzeero]

The Quran, in Arabic form, hasn't ever been changed. It's the same word for word...can't say that for the Bible and/or the Torah.

That is the problem i was referring to. The quran hasn't changed word for word, but the arabic language has. It has evolved. So even if someone is fluent in arabic (according to muslim scholars), they wouldn't be able to read the quran and understand it by themselves.

The question becomes more of interpretation than translation. And only "holy scholars" can interpret what quran really means. That is because word for word translation is exactly what you see in the first post on this thread. And that is not good for Islam.

All a bunch of control and defense mechanisms. Sorry man. I hate to attack someones faith like this. But if that is what the literal translation is, then that is what it means to me.

 

[mountain muscle]

You infidels should be careful or they will call a jihad on EF and Spellmeister.

 

[Subzeero]

You infidels should be careful or they will call a jihad on EF and Spellmeister.

no kidding. I feel sorry for that french professor who merely put this issue into light and had to go into hiding fearing for his life. On french soil!

He said intimidation by muslims was wrong in face intellectual critisizm of Islam, and ironically his point was proven completely.

 

[mountain muscle]

no kidding. I feel sorry for that french professor who merely put this issue into light and had to go into hiding fearing for his life. On french soil!

He said intimidation by muslims was wrong in face intellectual critisizm of Islam, and ironically his point was proven completely.

I love the "Islam is a religion of peace and if you disagree we will kill you" stance.

 

[CrazyK]

So the Quran says nothing about infidels ? Apostasy ? There's no mention about crucifixion or chopping hand and feets on opposite sides ? You mean that stoning folks is just bs ? Come on dude....

lol Crucifixtions are not mentioned at all...Stoning is meant as a punishment for Adultery I believe. Read the thing before you just believe what some redneck in Arkansas tells you.

 

[CrazyK]

I love the "Islam is a religion of peace and if you disagree we will kill you" stance.

Dude fucking idiot...They NEVER say that. In fact read up on your history, Muslim, Christians, and Jews lived in peace in the middle east for 1000's of years under Muslim rule. From the end of the CRUSADES (Christians initiated the war) to the creation of ISRAEL (Oh, who started this one?). You people need to really-REALLY stop listening to FOX NEWS and start reading fucking books.

 

[mountain muscle]

lol Crucifixtions are not mentioned at all...Stoning is meant as a punishment for Adultery I believe. Read the thing before you just believe what some redneck in Arkansas tells you.

I don't think Manny knows Arabic, so will never truely know what the books says. He will have to remain an infidel like the rest of us.

Infidel 4 life!

 

[CrazyK]

That is the problem i was referring to. The quran hasn't changed word for word, but the arabic language has. It has evolved. So even if someone is fluent in arabic (according to muslim scholars), they wouldn't be able to read the quran and understand it by themselves.

The question becomes more of interpretation than translation. And only "holy scholars" can interpret what quran really means. That is because word for word translation is exactly what you see in the first post on this thread. And that is not good for Islam.

All a bunch of control and defense mechanisms. Sorry man. I hate to attack someones faith like this. But if that is what the literal translation is, then that is what it means to me.

Basically...you don't know shit lol. Do you know Arabic? Keefik ya hamara? Shu ya Gahbah?? No you don't. It has evolved, but people can read the thing lol. I have no problem understanding the stories and morals it trys to convey, and I'm not a "Muslim Holy Scholar"....That's some more bullshit right there, we don't call any scholar "holy", they have no more of a connection to God then anyone else, so please, go read a book or two not written by Pat Robertson, or Ariel Sharon.

 

[CrazyK]

I don't think Manny knows Arabic, so will never truely know what the books says. He will have to remain an infidel like the rest of us.

Infidel 4 life!

Go ahead and be one, none of my business or any other Muslim's. We don't care what you do, just stay out of our territory and we won't mess with yours.

 

[manny78]

Go ahead and be one, none of my business or any other Muslim's. We don't care what you do, just stay out of our territory and we won't mess with yours.

Once we pump all your oil, we wont be seen around. trust me, I promise. Cause other than that, you have basically nothing to offer.

Infidel 4 Life y0 !!!!!

 

[CrazyK]

Once we pump all your oil, we wont be seen around. trust me, I promise. Cause other than that, you have basically nothing to offer.

Infidel 4 Life y0 !!!!!

hmm...considering I'm American (fastest growing religion in America is ISLAM) I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more of us around. Maybe even in your sisters bedroom

 

[H_T_]

everyone has got their own version. 50 years from now, Walt Disney will be doing a delightful cartoon on the life of Osama Bin Laden. it'll be full of adventure & revisionist history. just like everything else.

 

[mountain muscle]

hmm...considering I'm American (fastest growing religion in America is ISLAM) I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more of us around. Maybe even in your sisters bedroom

I thought you said you would stay out of our territory?

http://americanmethod.com/images/Green-Infidel.jpg

 

[Subzeero]

Basically...you don't know shit lol. Do you know Arabic? Keefik ya hamara? Shu ya Gahbah?? No you don't. It has evolved, but people can read the thing lol. I have no problem understanding the stories and morals it trys to convey, and I'm not a "Muslim Holy Scholar"....That's some more bullshit right there, we don't call any scholar "holy", they have no more of a connection to God then anyone else, so please, go read a book or two not written by Pat Robertson, or Ariel Sharon.

why can't we be just friends?

I am jewish by the way!

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAH!

I guess not.

 

[manny78]

hmm...considering I'm American (fastest growing religion in America is ISLAM) I'm sure you'll be seeing a lot more of us around. Maybe even in your sisters bedroom

Keep dreaming. Not because a poor misguided soul bought that islamic crap means everyone will. Btw mexicans are catholic and they'll probably bury every single muslim in this country before anyone else does.

Now with this comment, I'm sure Allah will ban me from the VIP room in heaven. No more HBO, virgins and open bar for me over there.

 

[CrazyK]

I thought you said you would stay out of our territory?

http://americanmethod.com/images/Green-Infidel.jpg

lol well considering it is becoming our territory slowly but surely, you will eventually be in it or out of it.

 

[CrazyK]

why can't we be just friends?

I am jewish by the way!

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAH!

I guess not.

Aww well we can be. I have some Jewish friends and we're totally fine with eachother. I did break a Jewish girls virginity once,...her did wasn't so happy to hear that (Yes I'm being serious lol)

 

[mountain muscle]

lol well considering it is becoming our territory slowly but surely, you will eventually be in it or out of it.

But it is wrong for us to be in yours?

Brb, I have some well planning to do in the Middle East.

 

[CrazyK]

Keep dreaming. Not because a poor misguided soul bought that islamic crap means everyone will. Btw mexicans are catholic and they'll probably bury every single muslim in this country before anyone else does.

Now with this comment, I'm sure Allah will ban me from the VIP room in heaven. No more HBO, virgins and open bar for me over there.

hahaa well Mexi's like us man. Most of the Muslim immigrants here are arab, and browns stick with browns holmes.

Also...Yeah, but I'll put in a special word for you bro and try and hook you up.

 

[CrazyK]

But it is wrong for us to be in yours?

Brb, I have some well planning to do in the Middle East.

No it's not, as long as your there in peace. Iraq/Afghanistan aren't exactly peaceful outings

 

[mountain muscle]

No it's not, as long as your there in peace. Iraq/Afghanistan aren't exactly peaceful outings

I was unaware that what started the whole thing, my bad. Sure was stability and peace in the Middle East and no Hatin' on the West before that.

 

[Subzeero]

Aww well we can be. I have some Jewish friends and we're totally fine with eachother. I did break a Jewish girls virginity once,...her did wasn't so happy to hear that (Yes I'm being serious lol)

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA!!

Typical muslim fantasy. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHA!!

Anyways bro...

**PROPS**

 

[jackangel]

Aww well we can be. I have some Jewish friends and we're totally fine with eachother. I did break a Jewish girls virginity once,...her did wasn't so happy to hear that (Yes I'm being serious lol)

if only you had fucked her right in front of him. and with each thrust, looked over at him as if to say, "how you like that, jew?"

i'm just kidding. that's terrible.

but so hot.

 

[H_T_]

i think that entire area should be turned into a big, glass crater.

 

[Subzeero]

i think that entire area should be turned into a big, glass crater.

that is something they fail to understand. How pathetic their stance is.

 

[CrazyK]

BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA!!

Typical muslim fantasy. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHHA!!

Anyways bro...

**PROPS**

To the guy who said it was terrible...it was lol. I was 18, she was 16...I made up that I loved her and wanted to take her to live with my family in Lebanon, and that she'd be treated like a princess, blah blah blah. Got her hymen...never talked to her again. I should be going to hell for that one.

 

[Subzeero]

To the guy who said it was terrible...it was lol. I was 18, she was 16...I made up that I loved her and wanted to take her to live with my family in Lebanon, and that she'd be treated like a princess, blah blah blah. Got her hymen...never talked to her again. I should be going to hell for that one.

what was her name?

 

[jackangel]

i wonder if her father's name is hyman. hyman roth, perhaps.

 

[MegaDesel]

Crazyk i think its pretty funny one minute your talking like islam is the best relgion and the middle east is the most wonderful place to be, and talking about wanting others (americans ) out. Then contradicting yourself by saying islam religion is the fastest growing in american, which is utter BS bythe way. My question is this, if the middle east can do with out the US and other countries why the fuck are you coming here. And why does your country that holds one of the biggest stocks of the most valuable natural resource countinue to drive its infastructure even further into disarray. Not to mention completely alowing foreign countrys to rule. PLEASE answer with unbiased BS

 

[CrazyK]

Crazyk i think its pretty funny one minute your talking like islam is the best relgion and the middle east is the most wonderful place to be, and talking about wanting others (americans ) out. Then contradicting yourself by saying islam religion is the fastest growing in american, which is utter BS bythe way. My question is this, if the middle east can do with out the US and other countries why the fuck are you coming here. And why does your country that holds one of the biggest stocks of the most valuable natural resource countinue to drive its infastructure even further into disarray. Not to mention completely alowing foreign countrys to rule. PLEASE answer with unbiased BS

I didn't come here. I was born here brother. My mom converted(Italian), and she met my dad(Arab) and they got married. Then baby CrazyK came along. I'm as American as George Mudda fuggin Washington haha.

 

[CrazyK]

what was her name?

Veronica. Russian chic, her name with her family was Svetlana though. Pretty blonde, tight pussy, but man that was fucked. I was young and stupid.

 

[_n8o_]

fukin a, I hate australians

WTF??

 

[cboogsrun]

Dude fucking idiot...They NEVER say that. In fact read up on your history, Muslim, Christians, and Jews lived in peace in the middle east for 1000's of years under Muslim rule. From the end of the CRUSADES (Christians initiated the war) to the creation of ISRAEL (Oh, who started this one?). You people need to really-REALLY stop listening to FOX NEWS and start reading fucking books.

which books should I be reading?

 

[cboogsrun]

Veronica. Russian chic, her name with her family was Svetlana though. Pretty blonde, tight pussy, but man that was fucked. I was young and stupid.

Isn't that the name of the jewish chic on the last real world?

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

I remember on 9-11, there were a group of celebrating olive skinned people at the university in arkansas I attended. They were arrested on the spot. Not sure if anything ever happened to them, but it was ''lol''

 

[CrazyK]

Isn't that the name of the jewish chic on the last real world?

I don't watch that show, but probably haha.

 

[klausflouride]

Fuck the theology, but Muslims know how to fight! Think boxers, think marauding armies, you got to give the koran the props for laying down some guide rules!

 

[mountain muscle]

Fuck the theology, but Muslims know how to fight! Think boxers, think marauding armies, you got to give the koran the props for laying down some guide rules!

Seems like that is all they know how to do. The middle east certainly is not a monument to the triumph of progess, evolution nor civilization.

 

[CrazyK]

Seems like that is all they know how to do. The middle east certainly is not a monument to the triumph of progess, evolution nor civilization.

Civilization? Once again read a history book. While Europe was in the slums of the dark ages Islamic culture was at its peak. A whole empire from the south of Spain to the islands of Indonesia. So obviously Islam spans more than just "the middle east". Also all of that expansion,...happened through voluntary conversion to the religion, unlike the catholics who tried to force it during the inquisition.

 

[klausflouride]

Well not trying to present myself as an arabist as well read as CK, medical advances seem to spring from early arabic sources. But then you watch`em during Indiana Jones and i know who I`m gunning for!!!!

 

[MegaDesel]

Civilization? Once again read a history book. While Europe was in the slums of the dark ages Islamic culture was at its peak. A whole empire from the south of Spain to the islands of Indonesia. So obviously Islam spans more than just "the middle east". Also all of that expansion,...happened through voluntary conversion to the religion, unlike the catholics who tried to force it during the inquisition.

well history books on this topic are just that, HISTORY!

 

[mountain muscle]

Civilization? Once again read a history book. While Europe was in the slums of the dark ages Islamic culture was at its peak. A whole empire from the south of Spain to the islands of Indonesia. So obviously Islam spans more than just "the middle east". Also all of that expansion,...happened through voluntary conversion to the religion, unlike the catholics who tried to force it during the inquisition.

And they haven't moved an inch forward since then.
We are talking present day. Read a newspaper.
Jesus, you sound like a Niners' fan constantly talking about the past.

 

[rykertest]

Civilization? Once again read a history book. While Europe was in the slums of the dark ages Islamic culture was at its peak. A whole empire from the south of Spain to the islands of Indonesia. So obviously Islam spans more than just "the middle east". Also all of that expansion,...happened through voluntary conversion to the religion, unlike the catholics who tried to force it during the inquisition.

Key word in that sentence being WAS. The muslim "religion" is one of the major infestations this world is facing. It's nothing more than a cult and I don't hate to say it but the middle east should just be bombed into oblivion.

Muslims are allowed to burn bibles and american flags, behead christians or anyone not muslim, or read one silly little cartoon and they riot AGAIN and swear to kill the pope for citing FACT. I am not catholic but I applaud the pope for saying what he said and was dissapointed he apologized. I swear, protesting and proclaiming jihad over and over is a full time job for these sub humans. They treat us infidels like trash but demand we treat them like gods. They are allowed to say whatever they want about whomever or whatever they want, but one wrong move and even if accidental and they riot and bomb and kill. Are you kidding me? They can kiss not only the sole of my shoe but my ass as well. Religion of piece? Yeah right. Muslims seek a world in which the rights of all are sacrificed to the dictates of Islam.

I refuse to appease such people. Every time we Americans provide concession to angry Muslim mobs gives hope to the Islamist cause and that being terrrorism. We need people to lead this country and muslim opinion be dammed. Islam is not a "great religion" but a bed sore on americas rear end.

 

[rykertest]

And they haven't moved an inch forward since then.
We are talking present day. Read a newspaper.
Jesus, you sound like a Niners' fan constantly talking about the past.

Jesus? Don't you mean mohammed?

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

Fuck the koran and allah.. fucking terrorist!

 

[solidspine]

Fuck the koran and allah.. fucking terrorist!

non-religious groups may also display cult-like characteristics


Totally agreed


Islam is a cult, it is not a religion.


Interesting to go to the Swedish site of Nobel Prize winners over the past 100 years,


See how many arabs, or muslims are listed as winners of the Nobel Prize from Sweden,


Just as many arabs, muslims as there are Beagles, none.
Nada, says a lot doesn’t it.

What a culture, what contribution to the world,



Arabs, Muslims have given us goat fucking, chicken ass suicide bombers,
and camel shit.

Complete waste of a race, because of their low IQ, (average 75 per the bell curve) and pathetic 4th century cult beliefs.

 

[CrazyK]

Say what you guys want to say. But I've had my grin ever since I deflowered a Rabbi's daughter lol. Was good fun.

 

[mountain muscle]

Say what you guys want to say. But I've had my grin ever since I deflowered a Rabbi's daughter lol. Was good fun.

NO virgins in heaven for you.

 

[CrazyK]

NO virgins in heaven for you.

That's probably true. I'm a sinner

 

[rykertest]

That's probably true. I'm a sinner

Well it's good you finally admit it. Denial ain't just a river in egypt.

 

[CrazyK]

Well it's good you finally admit it. Denial ain't just a river in egypt.

Yes sir. We all are. Some to more of a degree then others.

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

Did you hear about the new Muslim Strip Club? It features full facial nudity..

 

[bluepeter]

Those quotes are ridiculous. I've destroyed your infantile contentions several times already arabian or whoever the fuck you are. Care to get whipped again little man? Why is it that nobody on here can have a rational discussion with FACTS rather than deliberately skewed cut and paste garbage?

Amazing how people scream on this thread about how ignorant all muslims are and then they follow that up by indicating we should kill all of them, vastly misinterpreting/ignoring history and making shit up to make people who believe differently than themselves look bad. el-o-el

To all the folk who are obviously so well versed in history, Islam achieved huge advancements in mathematics, science, astronomy, literacy etc. etc. etc. Many of the foundations in these fields that you take for granted today were formed and enriched by muslims.

 

[MegaDesel]

Those quotes are ridiculous. I've destroyed your infantile contentions several times already arabian or whoever the fuck you are. Care to get whipped again little man? Why is it that nobody on here can have a rational discussion with FACTS rather than deliberately skewed cut and paste garbage?

Amazing how people scream on this thread about how ignorant all muslims are and then they follow that up by indicating we should kill all of them, vastly misinterpreting/ignoring history and making shit up to make people who believe differently than themselves look bad. el-o-el

To all the folk who are obviously so well versed in history, Islam achieved huge advancements in mathematics, science, astronomy, literacy etc. etc. etc. Many of the foundations in these fields that you take for granted today were formed and enriched by muslims.

LMFAO!!!
Please sight the specifics LOL

And FYI i am not defending or backing anyone stating to kill any race. I am merely asking evidence you seem to believe exists in YOUR world

 

[CrazyK]

LMFAO!!!
Please sight the specifics LOL

And FYI i am not defending or backing anyone stating to kill any race. I am merely asking evidence you seem to believe exists in YOUR world

It actually spured on an age of intellectualism unfathomable at the time. From the creation of the Algebraic system, to having the highest literacy rates(They were told they had to read the Quran), to translating every piece of scientific information from every culture at the time in to Arabic(Astronomy, Mathematics, Physics, Medical Journals...), to creating the equivalent of the Library of Congress for the world at the time in Baghdad, Iraq...just to name a few...

 

[Lao Tzu]

It actually spured on an age of intellectualism unfathomable at the time. From the creation of the Algebraic system, to having the highest literacy rates(They were told they had to read the Quran), to translating every piece of scientific information from every culture at the time in to Arabic(Astronomy, Mathematics, Physics, Medical Journals...), to creating the equivalent of the Library of Congress for the world at the time in Baghdad, Iraq...just to name a few...

How is that relavant to 2006? Right now muslim countries are the least democratic, least free, least literate countries on earth. That doesn't mean islam is inherietly inferior (most christian nations 80 years ago were oppressive dictatorships, even though most are now liberal democracies with functioning infrastructure) but it isn't relavant to me. I am interested in Islam in 2006, the Islam where polls show 30-50% of muslims in countries like Pakistan, Indonesia or Jordan say it is ok to intentionally murder civilians in acts of terrorism.


Also, FTR, I don't see Islam or any religion picking up steam in the US or the west among the natives. The west is sick of religion, and the US is the only religious western country left. Most others are athiestic or agnostic.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Dude fucking idiot...They NEVER say that. In fact read up on your history, Muslim, Christians, and Jews lived in peace in the middle east for 1000's of years under Muslim rule. From the end of the CRUSADES (Christians initiated the war) to the creation of ISRAEL (Oh, who started this one?). You people need to really-REALLY stop listening to FOX NEWS and start reading fucking books.

http://peace.heebz.com/golden.html#whatis

Didn't Jews and Arabs get along well in Arab lands?

While Jewish communities in Arab and Islamic countries fared better overall than those in Christian lands in Europe, Jews were no strangers to persecution and humiliation among the Arabs and Muslim. As Princeton University historian Bernard Lewis has written: "The Golden Age of equal rights was a myth, and belief in it was a result, more than a cause, of Jewish sympathy for Islam."

 

[solidspine]

Islam achieved huge advancements in mathematics, science, astronomy, literacy etc. etc. etc. Many of the foundations in these fields that you take for granted today were formed and enriched by muslims.

Put down the bong for a day or so, I think you are overdoing it................

huge advancements

That’s why every other one wants to be suicide bomber,

Bomb another sect, a suni, or a market,

That’s why they don’t have running water or toilets,


Very advanced culture, almost as advanced as flying fish.

huge advancements in mathematics, science, astronomy, literacy etc. etc. etc.

Name one


List there accomplishments,

who are their great artist,


Doctors,

scientists,

astronauts,

Poets,

Writers,

Mathematicians

Artists,

Singers,

Nobel prize winners?



Who, Who, Who, Who, Who, Who, who who who ????????


The closest they come is Mohammad Ali.

 

[CrazyK]

How is that relavant to 2006? Right now muslim countries are the least democratic, least free, least literate countries on earth. That doesn't mean islam is inherietly inferior (most christian nations 80 years ago were oppressive dictatorships, even though most are now liberal democracies with functioning infrastructure) but it isn't relavant to me. I am interested in Islam in 2006, the Islam where polls show 30-50% of muslims in countries like Pakistan, Indonesia or Jordan say it is ok to intentionally murder civilians in acts of terrorism.


Also, FTR, I don't see Islam or any religion picking up steam in the US or the west among the natives. The west is sick of religion, and the US is the only religious western country left. Most others are athiestic or agnostic.

Inferior lol? Ever been to Dubai? Or Tehran? Or Malaysia? My guess is you haven't, because those areas are far more advanced than most US cities.

 

[solidspine]

There only acclaim of the past 4000 years is the Berka - Islamic Law

 

[CrazyK]

Put down the bong for a day or so, I think you are overdoing it................







That’s why every other one wants to be suicide bomber,

Bomb another sect, a suni, or a market,

That’s why they don’t have running water or toilets,


Very advanced culture, almost as advanced as flying fish.



Name one


List there accomplishments,

who are their great artist,


Doctors,

scientists,

astronauts,

Poets,

Writers,

Mathematicians

Artists,

Singers,

Nobel prize winners?



Who, Who, Who, Who, Who, Who, who who who ????????


The closest they come is Mohammad Ali.

http://www.islam-usa.com/im3.html
http://www.islam-usa.com/im4.html
http://www.islam-usa.com/im9.html
http://www.mala.bc.ca/~mcneil/nafist.htm
http://www.ais.org/~bsb/Herald/Previous/95/science.html
http://www.iiim.org/iiimim.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/adelardbath1.html
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/index.htm
http://www.islamset.com/heritage/pharmacy/pharmacy.html
http://www.islamicmedicine.org/history.htm

Read through some of those, and maybe you'll get just a tad less ignorant.

 

[solidspine]

Ever been to Dubai? Or Tehran? Or Malaysia

Ah yes I have, Dubai 3 or 4 hospitals,

They don’t have fundamental anesthesiology, they don’t have screens on the windows, they don’t have sterilization technique, don’t have pressured CS or control rooms, antique instruments, antique equipment,
200 years behind the US in everything except trauma, which they have courtesy of the USA



5 % of the population is wealthy if they get sick or need hospitalization they fly to Europe or the USA

The rest of the UAE is as half ass backwards as all of Africa and the rest of the Middle East. Except Israel.

There is only one spine surgeon in Dubai, about 12 in Cairo, They don’t even place pedicle screws in the sacrum.

 

[Breeze]

Say what you guys want to say. But I've had my grin ever since I deflowered a Rabbi's daughter lol. Was good fun.

So you banged someones daughter.......So What? So have I and pretty much every guy in America. The grin on your face does not suprise me. Muslims grin alot, they even grin while being killed or while killing everyone else.
Ever seen video of a bunch of Muslims climbing around on an American aircraft they managed to shoot down? Lots of them are grinning from ear to ear. It's good to know that you grin while you fantasize about some junior high sex trick. The next time I see a Muslim with a big grin on his face I won't assume he is about to explode.

 

[CrazyK]

So you banged someones daughter.......So What? So have I and pretty much every guy in America. The grin on your face does not suprise me. Muslims grin alot, they even grin while being killed or while killing everyone else.
Ever seen video of a bunch of Muslims climbing around on an American aircraft they managed to shoot down? Lots of them are grinning from ear to ear. It's good to know that you grin while you fantasize about some junior high sex trick. The next time I see a Muslim with a big grin on his face I won't assume he is about to explode.

True lol. Cause we realize this life doesn't matter. I die tommorow, you die tommorow, big deal. We all have to face it sometime.

 

[CrazyK]

Ah yes I have, Dubai 3 or 4 hospitals,

They don’t have fundamental anesthesiology, they don’t have screens on the windows, they don’t have sterilization technique, don’t have pressured CS or control rooms, antique instruments, antique equipment,
200 years behind the US in everything except trauma, which they have courtesy of the USA



5 % of the population is wealthy if they get sick or need hospitalization they fly to Europe or the USA

The rest of the UAE is as half ass backwards as all of Africa and the rest of the Middle East. Except Israel.

There is only one spine surgeon in Dubai, about 12 in Cairo, They don’t even place pedicle screws in the sacrum.

That's not just true for Muslim countries, it's true for everywhere. You can't compare the rest of the world with the USA in medicine. Also keep in mind that a number of doctor's here are Muslim. My whole Mosque is basically engineers/doctors/lawyers professional people.

 

[bluepeter]

Wow, all yours CrazyK. I'm really tired of the idiocy.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Inferior lol? Ever been to Dubai? Or Tehran? Or Malaysia? My guess is you haven't, because those areas are far more advanced than most US cities.

Tehran, really? I haven't been there. How are they more advanced?

If there are a few well off capital cities that doesn't change that Islamic countries in 2006 are the least democratic, least free, least literate places on earth. I'm sure in 50 years it'll be different and they will catch up but I am interested in 2006.

 

[CrazyK]

Tehran, really? I haven't been there. How are they more advanced?

If there are a few well off capital cities that doesn't change that Islamic countries in 2006 are the least democratic, least free, least literate places on earth. I'm sure in 50 years it'll be different and they will catch up but I am interested in 2006.

Literacy rates are extremely high around the Muslim world. Everyone is pretty much required by their religion to able to read the Quran, it is considered a HUGE shame in Muslim culture not to be able to read your own religion's book....I agree with you that most of the coutntries are not very democratic, but who is to blame for that? The western world. They are the ones who came and colonized most of the middle east and implanted puppet dictatorships, and kingdoms(Who set up the Saudi's?-British). On the other hand, we are seeing the tide turn in some nations. Iran elects it's leaders, as does Afghanistan, the "newly" formed Iraq, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the list goes on...Advances in some of these countries are coming at a rapid pace, Iran has developed Nuclear technology, and Pakistan already has the bomb. India, who's current President is a Muslim, already has a nuclear aresonal as well. Food for thought.

 

[reno240]

I have a serious question for CrazyK... Does the Quran indoctrinate the current treatment of women in many of these islamic ruled countries? If so, what is the reasoning behind it?

 

[CrazyK]

I have a serious question for CrazyK... Does the Quran indoctrinate the current treatment of women in many of these islamic ruled countries? If so, what is the reasoning behind it?

For the most part, NO. Most mistreatment of woman in the muslim world is just from assholes. I see the girls in my family, and all of them are very-very happy. Islam says that if it ever comes to the point where you feel you have to hit your girl to get through to her, then you should divorce. Also woman have superior property rights(if someone dies in the family, it goes to the oldest woman in the immeadiate family), and they have every right to divorce their husband as the man does. Anything else that happens is just from shitty families, or men who don't know how to treat a woman, but that happens anywhere.

 

[reno240]

For the most part, NO. Most mistreatment of woman in the muslim world is just from assholes. I see the girls in my family, and all of them are very-very happy. Islam says that if it ever comes to the point where you feel you have to hit your girl to get through to her, then you should divorce. Also woman have superior property rights(if someone dies in the family, it goes to the oldest woman in the immeadiate family), and they have every right to divorce their husband as the man does. Anything else that happens is just from shitty families, or men who don't know how to treat a woman, but that happens anywhere.

Oh - didn't know that - does that mean that a woman is free to dress how she pleases in public? What about all that crap I see on TV about having to cover up their entire body and wearing those vails? Is that people taking the Quran out of context?

 

[mkazzbmf]

Those verses are bullshit....More propaganda spread by the Jews.....Read the Torah if you want to see who preaches peace or not No I am not religious at all.....But I have read much of the Qaran, and the Torah....The Quaran teaches peace and the Torah teaches how to lie and stab others in the back.


Kaz

 

[CrazyK]

Oh - didn't know that - does that mean that a woman is free to dress how she pleases in public? What about all that crap I see on TV about having to cover up their entire body and wearing those vails? Is that people taking the Quran out of context?

Yes, to an extent they can dress how they please in an Islamic society. However, part of being a good Muslim is being modest in your dress, this goes for guys and girls. Vails are usually worn by woman voluntarily. All Islam has gone as far as requiring is the scarf when your not in front of your families men, and some scholar's even debate that. Keep in mind though that the same rules apply for men, wearing a thong around is a definate no-no in the Muslim world.

 

[reno240]

Yes, to an extent they can dress how they please in an Islamic society. However, part of being a good Muslim is being modest in your dress, this goes for guys and girls. Vails are usually worn by woman voluntarily. All Islam has gone as far as requiring is the scarf when your not in front of your families men, and some scholar's even debate that. Keep in mind though that the same rules apply for men, wearing a thong around is a definate no-no in the Muslim world.

Yeah - um - men wearing a thong around should also be a no-no EVERYWHERE!

 

[CrazyK]

Yeah - um - men wearing a thong around should also be a no-no EVERYWHERE!

lol exactly.

 

[ItalianMuscle27]

Well they corned the market on party stores and gas stations..

 

[Lao Tzu]

Literacy rates are extremely high around the Muslim world. Everyone is pretty much required by their religion to able to read the Quran, it is considered a HUGE shame in Muslim culture not to be able to read your own religion's book.....

Thats not necessarily true. If you look at a map of world literacy, virtually every non-muslim country is in the 80-100% range. Most of the countries with 70% or lower are Islamic.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Literacy_rate_world.PNG

I agree with you that most of the coutntries are not very democratic, but who is to blame for that? The western world. They are the ones who came and colonized most of the middle east and implanted puppet dictatorships, and kingdoms(Who set up the Saudi's?-British).

That isn't true. Why have asia, south america, non-muslim africa and eastern europe all managed to become liberal democracies?

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/int/2001/pd122601e.html

"In fact, off the states with an Islamic majority, only one, Mali, is rated Free, 18 are rated Partly Free, and 28 are considered Not Free.

By contrast, in the non-Islamic world, 85 countries are Free, 40 are Partly Free and 20 are Not Free.

The gap in freedom has only widened over the last 20 years. While every other region of the world has registered significant gains for democracy and freedom, the countries of the Islamic world have experienced a significant increase in repression. "

If you take a muslim country at random you have a 2% chance of it being free (1 out of 47). If you take a non-muslim country at random you have a 59% chance of picking a free country (85/145). 60% of muslim countries score the lowest for freedom and democracy, versus 14% for non-muslim countries. If western nations were at fault, that doesn't explain why the parts of Africa that aren't muslim are more free than the muslim parts. Or why every other geography that was once oppressed by the west is doing much better than 20 years ago.

If you look at the most oppressive countries on earth in 2006, most are either Communist, remnants of the USSR or Islamic.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=138&report=40

On the other hand, we are seeing the tide turn in some nations. Iran elects it's leaders, as does Afghanistan, the "newly" formed Iraq, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, and the list goes on...Advances in some of these countries are coming at a rapid pace, Iran has developed Nuclear technology, and Pakistan already has the bomb. India, who's current President is a Muslim, already has a nuclear aresonal as well. Food for thought.

I think that is great. I hope muslim countries continue on their march towards freedom and democracy and by 2050 muslim countries are by and large free, representative governments and we should encourage those who want to make that transition. But as of 2006 Islamic countries score pretty low on ratings that most people consider valuable like literacy, freedom, democracy, press freedom, transparency in government, etc.

 

[CrazyK]

Did I not say I agreed with you that most of the Islamic countries are not very democratic? Also if I remember right North Korea, China, and a lot of South of America are far from "democratic" lol. So don't blame it on "Islam", cause that is not that case AT ALL. The whole Islamic poltical system is based on Democracy, and voting in your leaders. It got broken after the Western countries came in and colonized the area.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Did I not say I agreed with you that most of the Islamic countries are not very democratic? Also if I remember right North Korea, China, and a lot of South of America are far from "democratic" lol. So don't blame it on "Islam", cause that is not that case AT ALL. The whole Islamic poltical system is based on Democracy, and voting in your leaders. It got broken after the Western countries came in and colonized the area.

The point wasn't that Islamic countries are not democratic, it was that it is not the fault of westernization. If it were, why are non-islamic third world countries that aren't Islamic improving its human rights and democratic institutions? Why do countris in Africa which are non-muslim have more freedom than muslim countries? You can't blame westernization, geography or income in that situation as they are constant between muslim vs. non muslim countries. I remember a freedom house article showing that the non-muslim countries pulled the democratic and freedom ratings for Africa up, while the muslim ones pulled it down, and Africa is a merger of the two.

Why have Islamic countries fallen behind the rest of the world? Why have Islamic countries gotten worse while the rest of the world got better if Islam is not at fault? My understanding is that Muslims are in an identity crisis, and this pull towards fundamentalism is just an expression of that. Before that they tried Pan Arabism. Right after ww1 many western Christian nations faced major identity crisises and stresses, and as a result many became dictatorships and backwards. However over time they worked their way out and are among the most free countries on earth now. Many muslims when polled show their support for freedom and democracy, but their leaders aren't listening right now.

The fact that North Korea & China aren't democratic doesn't mean anything, because several asian countries are democratic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_2006#Asia-Pacific

Much of South America qualifies as liberal democracies, even though many have problems like every other country.

ooh. While looking it up I see Indonesia has risen to 'free' status according to freedom house, their human rights have improved. That is good, esp. considering that they were a military system just a couple decades ago. Hopefully this continues.

 

[bluepeter]

The point wasn't that Islamic countries are not democratic, it was that it is not the fault of westernization. If it were, why are non-islamic third world countries that aren't Islamic improving its human rights and democratic institutions? Why do countris in Africa which are non-muslim have more freedom than muslim countries? You can't blame westernization, geography or income in that situation as they are constant between muslim vs. non muslim countries. I remember a freedom house article showing that the non-muslim countries pulled the democratic and freedom ratings for Africa up, while the muslim ones pulled it down, and Africa is a merger of the two.

Why have Islamic countries fallen behind the rest of the world? Why have Islamic countries gotten worse while the rest of the world got better if Islam is not at fault? My understanding is that Muslims are in an identity crisis, and this pull towards fundamentalism is just an expression of that. Before that they tried Pan Arabism. Right after ww1 many western Christian nations faced major identity crisises and stresses, and as a result many became dictatorships and backwards. However over time they worked their way out and are among the most free countries on earth now. Many muslims when polled show their support for freedom and democracy, but their leaders aren't listening right now.

The fact that North Korea & China aren't democratic doesn't mean anything, because several asian countries are democratic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World_2006#Asia-Pacific

Much of South America qualifies as liberal democracies, even though many have problems like every other country.

ooh. While looking it up I see Indonesia has risen to 'free' status according to freedom house, their human rights have improved. That is good, esp. considering that they were a military system just a couple decades ago. Hopefully this continues.

You raise an interesting point I have often thought about. Why have largely Islamic countries fallen behind? You cannot solely blame Islam. As we have already established, at one time Islamic nations were a beacon of light in a largely dark world. So they have proven that at one point in time, they were certainly capable of great things. This indicates it is not an inherent flaw in their ideology that is solely responsible for their current status. I fully admit I do not have a cognitive answer. I am interested in others perspectives however. Err, actually, now that I scroll back through this thread I can see the responses likely to be put forth so I'm actually interested in your perspective

 

[Lao Tzu]

You raise an interesting point I have often thought about. Why have largely Islamic countries fallen behind? You cannot solely blame Islam. As we have already established, at one time Islamic nations were a beacon of light in a largely dark world. So they have proven that at one point in time, they were certainly capable of great things. This indicates it is not an inherent flaw in their ideology that is solely responsible for their current status. I fully admit I do not have a cognitive answer. I am interested in others perspectives however. Err, actually, now that I scroll back through this thread I can see the responses likely to be put forth so I'm actually interested in your perspective

Bernard Lewis has written on the problem, from what I gather muslims have gone from being no# 1 in the world to being a gas station so the west can power our SUVs.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/lewis1.htm

They feel invaded by Jews (who they cannot defeat militarily no matter how often they try), infidels and americans who violate their land and take their resources, and countries like Thailand and uganda have more money and more freedom than they do. The biggest reasons muslims hate the west are because of invasion, US troops in Saudi Arabia, the creation of Israel and now the Iraq war. They are falling behind fast and they know it, and it is making them feel inadequate. People who feel they are falling behind and inadequate do desperate, stupid things and groups of people are no different (gangsta culture for example is what happens when you get a bunch of poor people who feel their lives are going wrong together). In an attempt to make up for the feelings of being left behind and invaded they are trying radical idealogies, first pan arabism and now Islamic fundamentalism. Arguably it is no different than christians trying on fascism and communism after ww1 in a desperate attempt to fix their own situations which went wrong due to the war and economic problems. After/during ww1 fascists came to power in Spain, Germany & Italy and communists in Russia. The KKK went from being a non-organization to having several million members (5% of the population or so) and running several state governments here in the US. The motives for these problems were largely the same. Massive invasion by outsiders (the KKK ran on an anti-immigrant stance), massive changes occuring in society (sufferage), economic hardship and war. Muslim terrorists are to Islam what the KKK are to christianity, a desperate attempt to fight back against what they feel is an invasion by outsiders after they have already been beaten down by life and circumstance. Of course the people being fought back against are just confused as to why anybody would hate them so much just for existing.

The real soultion is a long term building process where infrastructure, education, literacy, freedom, tolerance of others and representative government spread for Islamic countries to regain their prestige. I'm sure in the long run that will be the path Muslim countries take. Many middle eastern countreis do take this path, we just don't hear about it. Many middle eastern countries (middle east countries are among the least free muslim countries) are constantly improving their domestic freedoms and infrastructure.