Jagermeister
New member
Thought it was a good acticle,
supertraining list part 1
Why is sucking in the abs wrong when lifting? Why is it true that,
"The last thing that any serious lifter would do in weightlifting or
powerlifting is suck in the abs or think about selectively activating some
or other muscles of the abdominal group?"
John Casler writes:
Hi Bryan, It seems that this controversy will not die. The very
interesting thing is it is based on what I think are some difficult to
understand concepts on
both sides.
First off the TvA, Internal Obliques and Rectus are all connected via the
Linea Alba. This means that when one contracts they all are somewhat
affected. I also question that they can be "totally" isolated from each
other. I do acknowledge that you "can" activate the TvA to "compress" the
contents of the lower abdomen. This you can easily do as you read this,
sitting at your desk. But if you then consciously then activate the IO and
RA, (which is a must to support large loadings) you may notice a "slight"
bulging, due to the muscles involved shortening and thickening.
I honestly have not studied "firing sequence" studies if they exists, but I
would say that in dynamic loading situations of sufficient magnitude they
all three fire in concert and as needed.
It does not take a rocket scientist to just look at the insertions of all
three muscles involved and see what the result of their concentric
contractile action would be. When a muscle contracts, "it shortens". As
the TvA contracts longitudinally across the lower abdomen, it shortens,
this causes it to compress and "pull" into the abdominal organs and tighten
against their contents.
Let me make it perfectly clear, the TvA, or for that matter the IO and RA
"cannot" PUSH OUT in their function. The Rectus and Internal Obliques
"can" contract out a small degree "if" they are flexing the spine, but in a
load bearing static contraction (without spinal flexion) the outward action
is rather small and limited to expansion due to shortening. Before you
"pushers" begin to see red - read on.
[Precisely! - as is constantly stressed in functional anatomy texts and EMG studies,
the bulging of the abdominal region is entirely passive and a result of increased
intra-abdominal pressure. Mel Siff]
I am also saying that they are NOT "sucked in" when we perform a heavy lift.
"Sucking the abdominal wall in, involves a complex maneuver of the diaphragm
and a few other muscles. Additionally, to "suck" one must create a "negative
pressure" to do the sucking. the TvA cannot perform this function. It can
only provide a "positive pressure" or compression.
[This is an important point to note. As I stated in the "Facts & Falllacies of Fitness" book,
"it would appear to be more fundamental to focus on controlling breathing patterns
than trying to activate transversus, a muscle which may well become involved quite
reflexively by changes in abdominal pressure associated with action of the diaphragm. Mel Siff]
SO TvA, IO, and RA do no sucking or pushing.
Let us continue; To achieve the maximum compression of the abdominal cavity
all three muscles must contract and maintain tension causing a more rigid
reinforcement on the top of the TvA activation.
These muscle are arranged in such a way that the fibers of each, run at
oblique angles to the others, causing them to be, not only incredible
containment walls for IntraAbdominal Pressure, but when fully tensioned,
they take on a rigidity that rivals many solid tissues. When this rigidity
is combined with the internal "pressurization" (IAP) their ability to resist
force loadings is far greater than one would think.
So why do so many "experts" say that the abs "push" out??
supertraining list part 1
Why is sucking in the abs wrong when lifting? Why is it true that,
"The last thing that any serious lifter would do in weightlifting or
powerlifting is suck in the abs or think about selectively activating some
or other muscles of the abdominal group?"
John Casler writes:
Hi Bryan, It seems that this controversy will not die. The very
interesting thing is it is based on what I think are some difficult to
understand concepts on
both sides.
First off the TvA, Internal Obliques and Rectus are all connected via the
Linea Alba. This means that when one contracts they all are somewhat
affected. I also question that they can be "totally" isolated from each
other. I do acknowledge that you "can" activate the TvA to "compress" the
contents of the lower abdomen. This you can easily do as you read this,
sitting at your desk. But if you then consciously then activate the IO and
RA, (which is a must to support large loadings) you may notice a "slight"
bulging, due to the muscles involved shortening and thickening.
I honestly have not studied "firing sequence" studies if they exists, but I
would say that in dynamic loading situations of sufficient magnitude they
all three fire in concert and as needed.
It does not take a rocket scientist to just look at the insertions of all
three muscles involved and see what the result of their concentric
contractile action would be. When a muscle contracts, "it shortens". As
the TvA contracts longitudinally across the lower abdomen, it shortens,
this causes it to compress and "pull" into the abdominal organs and tighten
against their contents.
Let me make it perfectly clear, the TvA, or for that matter the IO and RA
"cannot" PUSH OUT in their function. The Rectus and Internal Obliques
"can" contract out a small degree "if" they are flexing the spine, but in a
load bearing static contraction (without spinal flexion) the outward action
is rather small and limited to expansion due to shortening. Before you
"pushers" begin to see red - read on.
[Precisely! - as is constantly stressed in functional anatomy texts and EMG studies,
the bulging of the abdominal region is entirely passive and a result of increased
intra-abdominal pressure. Mel Siff]
I am also saying that they are NOT "sucked in" when we perform a heavy lift.
"Sucking the abdominal wall in, involves a complex maneuver of the diaphragm
and a few other muscles. Additionally, to "suck" one must create a "negative
pressure" to do the sucking. the TvA cannot perform this function. It can
only provide a "positive pressure" or compression.
[This is an important point to note. As I stated in the "Facts & Falllacies of Fitness" book,
"it would appear to be more fundamental to focus on controlling breathing patterns
than trying to activate transversus, a muscle which may well become involved quite
reflexively by changes in abdominal pressure associated with action of the diaphragm. Mel Siff]
SO TvA, IO, and RA do no sucking or pushing.
Let us continue; To achieve the maximum compression of the abdominal cavity
all three muscles must contract and maintain tension causing a more rigid
reinforcement on the top of the TvA activation.
These muscle are arranged in such a way that the fibers of each, run at
oblique angles to the others, causing them to be, not only incredible
containment walls for IntraAbdominal Pressure, but when fully tensioned,
they take on a rigidity that rivals many solid tissues. When this rigidity
is combined with the internal "pressurization" (IAP) their ability to resist
force loadings is far greater than one would think.
So why do so many "experts" say that the abs "push" out??

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